you think i feel im a victim and won’t do anything about my suffering, you are wrong,

i think its the truth im a victim and i won’t do anything not because of that, but because life is shit, and i hate it all, and you know what, fuck connection, i don’t want it, you can have it.

I’ve read that over a few times… you are a master of…   You arrived at the same conclusion and was still able to say I was wrong.
You are a victim and not going to do anything.

Your reasons of why you won’t do anything don’t matter… unless your looking for some one to argue about your reasons and convince you otherwise,… if true here you show your at war with your ‘you’ as you have shown  no intention of changing your mind – that would be doing something and you won’t do anything.  You don’t want connection, Life is shit  ‘and should not be’ . You shake your fists at a g_d you do not believe in and deny the thing you want.

Not a unique response to Life as it is.  No is in my opinion a valid response if unskillful. So what is your point? What do you want? Permission?

I see your posts as my shadow. My tendency to depression and giving up, wanting to get off this ride, hopelessness… the contraction of doing the things I do not wish to do and doing the things I wish not to do.  Perhaps a difference is that I usually realize when I’m doing those things.

Anyway if your going to be Stuck, embrace your stuckness. Whining about stuckness is just another contradiction.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Peter.

If it is true that you had similar experience, why i didn’t ended up agreeing with your logic?

I don’t think your great a empathy (could be wrong) but more to the point that you don’t want anyone to agree with you. You wish to be unique in your suffering.

You are a victim and not going to do anything.  Is that the ultimate truth or just your point of view?

Your confusing me. You have said multiple that “You are a victim”.  So yes I believe you when you say that you experience your ‘you’ as being a victim. It is my impression that this is the foundation of your life philosophy, stuckness and anger centers on you being a victim. (could be wrong)

Is it a ultimate truth? I don’t think so, but that is for you to answer.  I’ve seen people change their point of view and so their outlook but you might be right when you say your not capable of such a thing for the many reasons you have given. Even if you were capable you have said multiple times that you wouldn’t try.  Confusing to me your either capable or not… but your going to argue that you are capable but nothing will change, so why bother. Essentially then not capable, or the question of capability is moot.  You have decided to be right.

As with most of the dialog its just going to go in circle. Even when you agree you tell yourself, sorry your you, and us you don’t

When I thanked you for reveling my own shadow I wasn’t thanking you for agreeing with me, or ‘seeing’ me, or understanding me…. I don’t need that from the virtual world. We will always speak past each other. But even in that, the opportunity to learn something about one self  was available.

So thanks for engaging even if it turns out I was only talking to myself.

but more to the point that you don’t want anyone to agree with you. You wish to be unique in your suffering

If that’s true i wouldn’t feel so good when anita agreed with me, to me agreeing with my point of view meaning the other person understands it.

Did you feel good, do you still feel good about that?

Your confusing me. You have said multiple that “You are a victim”

I will make it simple for you, lets take an example, a raped person is a victim right? Would you call him a victim or would you say “no don’t say you are a victim, that will make you trapped in a victim mentality”?

I acknowledge that i was a victim just like a raped person acknowledge that he is a victim.

A person  can be a victims of crimes and not take on the persona of victim, not ‘be’ a victim.  When I read through your posts I hear a person who’s life philosophy is rooted in ‘being’ a victim. I could be wrong.

Now let me explain why i think the victim definition works for me, similar to rape, bad things happened to the person which was outside of his control and couldn’t do otherwise, and he has to deal with the consequences of this thing the rest of his life, i have been raped, not physically, but mentally, by many ideas and beliefs, by shame and gulit, i was too young to understand, by my mother and father, by my environment, my mother the so insecure person that will blame a child just so she can feel good about herself, that will use him to satisfy her needs and not care about his needs.

These things, ultimately made me choose what i choose now, if you claim that your suffering is similar, then you would ended up just like me, even if i indeed have victim mentality and it is the reason why im so miserable, it wouldn’t matter now, because it won’t be change by me.

The reality is that for most things Life happens to us that our not of our choosing and control. We control very little even if or limited linear ego consciousness likes to think it can. We do not choose to be born, our parents, the traditions born into…. From such a perspective we are all victims of circumstances. So what?

How it is that so many rape victims transcend the experience?

Your making a huge assumption that everyone with the same life experiences as you would come to the same conclusions as you.  You assume that someone can be exactly the same as another and experience the same conditions the some way. A quick observation of others clearly shows that is not true. No snowflake is alike.   You also assume that only such a person could possible ‘understand’ and know you. This is a very limited definition of the word ‘understanding’ and “understood”.

that this is the foundation of your life philosophy, stuckness and anger centers on you being a victim. (could be wrong)

Maybe you are right, does that change anything ?

I don’t know… I suspect that if change is possible we have to own our thinking and beliefs. We don’t tend to do something that doesn’t work for us in some way, even if it harms us. Something in your Life philosophy is working for you but only by owning it will you discover what that is. Only then might you ask the question if it really working for you or against you. It not uncommon to work against ones ‘good’.

“Does it change anything” this triggers my shadow of despair as I also wonder if change is possible, and what’s the point… I’m notice that I’m projecting my need that change is possible onto your posts. I am not saying we are the same, or that I ‘know’/’understand’ you when I talk of shadow.  Actually when we project its not possible to see the other, we are only looking at ourselves we do not recognize.  A shadow consists of the things we do not want to see in ourselves.  Oddly that can be the worst things we fear as well as the best..

I read your posts and find myself imagining a person that has surrendered to being life’s victim.  That is trap I’m afraid of falling into…. again. In those worst moments I wish I had not been born and long for death… but I don’t do anything about it and I don’t live as if I were dead. I imagine a person that lives as if dead would live fearlessly with nothing to lose yet I am full of fears.  I suspect my thoughts of death is really a desire for change which I don’t always believe is possible which I know is a contradiction. Like so many I work against myself.  In that I imagine we are the similar.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Peter.

I believe I told you we would be talking across each other

I imagine a person that lives as if dead would live fearlessly with nothing to lose yet I am full of fears

This is where you project, you think that i am full of fears and a has a victim mentality.

I wasn’t talking about you I was talking about myself. Thus my pervious comment on Empathy I don’t think you ‘see’ others.

Why? Why you feel the need to project your truth?

I don’t think you understand what I mean by projection and shadow work. Projection is something that happens and tends to be unconscious. By acknowledging my projections I was attempting to pull them back and take ownership of them.  I fully admitted that with some self reflection that I realized I was projecting onto your posts.  that I wasn’t talking to you I was essentially talking to myself. Sorry it wasn’t ‘all about You’.

I don’t know you, I can only read your posts. Your post do not come across as indicating you are happy or that your life philosophy is working for you.  If I’m wrong the fault may not just be mine but your communication. I suggest you do some more research on how people often unconsciously work against their best interest.

If your happy being unhappy great, I don’t want to go on that ride anymore.

I’ll leave it like that

It not uncommon to work against ones ‘good’.

I disagree, biologically we are meant to seek our good and what benefits us, most of healthy minded people do, unless you really hate yourself or were programmed to please people instead of your own.

Hi Murtaza,

I don’t blame my old self for being hurt, i was a kid, i couldn’t defend myself, i only blame my current self, the aware one, and i don’t do it to just blame, i do it to learn and change, i believe no one could hurt you unless you allow him, if a person hurts you, check yourself first, in the end people are external and outside of your control, you will have to adopt to them, or see different people, something not available to me.

In fact, we can be hurt, but we can heal from it. If someone stabs you, you are hurt but hopefully you can heal. If someone betrays you, i.e. hurts you emotionally, you can still be hurt, but with self-awareness, you can heal. You can also take measures, e.g. stop contact with that person, so that you wouldn’t be hurt again. Or you can speak to the person and clarify, because sometimes we get hurt and offended when in fact we shouldn’t be, because the person didn’t mean anything bad.

Anyway, what I am saying is that we can be hurt, and it’s not a sign of weakness, but we can also heal. If you close yourself in advance from love and relationships – anticipating that you will be hurt – that’s what’s not healthy. It’s like not getting out in the street at all, because you might be stabbed. Better approach is to go out, be open to experiences (with certain precautions in place), and only deal with your wounds if you are stabbed.

lately there was some harsh lessons i learned, really harsh, one that love is an exchange, you have to meet certain requirements for that exchange (mostly)

Yes, love is an exchange, and it doesn’t mean it’s a filthy or immoral exchange. It’s true that some people ask from us to suppress ourselves – which is toxic (specially if those people are our parents). But some people appreciate us for who we are, so a relationship with them is possible. But yes, love is giving ad taking, it’s an exchange.

No, i feel empathy for him, i feel sorry for him, that he lived this horrible life, and i want to make it easy for him, this is why i choosed a life with little problems and little pain, because i know he is already in pain

You haven’t treated/healed his wound, you’re simply protecting him from further pain, i.e. from the wound getting deeper. But the original wound is still there, affecting your life. When I was talking about healing, I meant healing the original wound.

Yes its true, but what can i do about it? My own flesh and blood is shit, so what? I don’t let that decide my destiny or predetermine my life, i don’t blame them for it, because i know they were programmed to do so, i understand where they are coming from, i understand why they did what they did, and i see no fault of theirs.

Though i acknowledge they did something bad (acknowledge, not blame).

It’s a good approach not to blame them, because blaming keeps us stuck. However, they still inflicted a wound upon you. It is their fault, even though you rationally understand the reasons why they did it. Still, the only way to really process this kind of betrayal and wounding, and to be healed, is to include emotions as well. To express anger at them (justified anger) in a safe, therapeutic setting. Even online therapy can provide that possibility. I know you’re not interested in healing, but I am just saying what would need to be done – if you were interested.

The reason why im angry at everyone else, because of my experiences, i still mad at my parents, i didn’t superss it, its just a logical anger, not feeling oriented one.

I see. You don’t feel the emotion of anger because you rationalized it by finding excuses for them. It’s like you froze that emotion..  but it seeps out, and it comes out in your interactions with other people. And also, you are angry at the entire world, you even despise the world, saying things like: “lack of goodness in the world, lack of order, lack of beauty, everything is so boring and dull, everything is so exhausting and not worth my time or effort”.

The anger, bitterness and frustration, that you rightfully feel towards those who hurt you, is projected at the entire world and practically all people.

The way about it would be to feel and express your justified anger at those who hurt you, in a safe therapeutic setting, so it could be transformed and healed. You then wouldn’t feel angry at the entire world… you would see things through a different lens.

The reason why im angry at society, because they told me god exist, they told me workout helps (online)

Workout usually does help. But it didn’t help you? What did you expect to gain from workout, and how were you disappointed?