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anitaParticipant
Dear Caroline:
Thank you for your understanding and for being okay with me making a mistake. I appreciate it!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Eva:
Thank you, Eva, you have a beautiful heart!
I get scared of people even when they are not scary simply because I see my mother in others and because there was no one to help me while I was growing up (growing in, really), no one to counter her effect. People in general were not a source of help or comfort for me as a child; often- a source of distress.
“I only had to do with a narcistic person – whom I don’t love as deeply as you love/d your mother! – for a year. Even during this short period of time she managed to confuse me completely, make me feel stupid, question my own sanity and hurt me. So I can definitely feel how horrible it was for you to live with such a person for years. Especially with a person whom you deeply loved. I can feel the huge disappointment and I am not surprised at all that you cut her off…”- thank you for understanding so well.“I am happy that you have become who you are today. And I am certainly not the only one who thinks so on this forum”- this is the nicest thing I read/ heard all day.. I like you, Eva, thank you for being you, and for being here!anitaanitaParticipantDear Peace:
H a P p Y 28 B i R t H d A y, P e A c E !!!!
Thank you for your empathy for me, I appreciate it a lot!
“I’ve been in shock and denial, but I’m gradually moving towards acceptance“- this kind of acceptance is a necessary part of healing: good job, Peace!
“I would love to know more about your experiences if you wish to share with me“- there is nothing that a little girl needs more than her mother to smile at her with this message: I like you, I like who you are, thank you for being in my life, you make me happy. Too often (and once was such event was one too many), my mother’s sentiment was: I do not like you, you are a bad girl, you are disgusting, I feel hurt and miserable for having you in my life!
Getting that message (and repeatedly, and at great length each time) messed me up big time.
“When I consider your situation, it makes me reflect on my own relationship with my mother. She’s quite emotionally distant..“- we all need or needed a mother who expresses her affection, not a distant one.
“Nevertheless, I still hold deep love for her. In moments of grief, I often wish she could be with me, She’s truly the sweetest and most innocent person I know.“- reading this is making me smile. Thank you, Peace, for being a loving daughter and a loving person!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Stacy:
“I was born and am still poverty level, he was born upper middle class.. I was always so embarrassed of my parents… she (your mother) is physically and financially incapable of a lot of things.. I absolutely think that I found refuge in my ex, and even his parents when they met me and accepted and loved me… It’s, ‘Oh this rich family accepts me and thinks I’m good enough for them, and this guy from this impressive upbringing.. who claims to love me so much thinks I’M impressive? Then I’ve won.’… As soon as I come home from my job, I see my mom sitting on the couch all day long in pain and self-wallowing, and the septic tank repair bill or some other stressful and real life issue constantly plaguing us” (Sept 2023)-
– as a little girl, like any other child, you NEEDED capable parents, capable and in charge, so that you had an adult to rely on. For the purpose of being able to grow up and develop, both physically and emotionally, to gradually claim a life of your own, you needed to feel safe and secure with capable parents. Like any other child, you needed to think highly of your parents, to be proud of them, to feel that they are strong where you are weak. You never had that, not as a little girl, not as a teenager, not in your 20s, and still not at 31. And so, you are still that little girl living at home, still feeling too insecure to venture outside of your family of origin, claiming a life of your own.
About a year ago, you thought that maybe you found the.. adults-in-charge in this man and his PhD, upper middle class parents. He claimed that he loved you, but you were not sure, and you needed to know because love is a necessary ingredient in the home you NEED, so you investigated, asking him questions, looking for the answer in every thing he ever said or did, including in what he liked online. studying his social media activity, dissecting his past before he met you, looking for the answer to the question: do you love me? am I a woman of value to you?
“He said, ‘I just feel like you’re always looking for the damning evidence to prove that I’m a bad guy..”…I definitely put too much weight into every single thing he’s ever said or done while knowing me. Even his past that I’ve tried to dissect… I guess my first actual ‘doable’ step has to be unfollowing my ex. I keep looking for THE evidence to give me peace that I was warranted in my feelings to cause all of this in the first place. But I know that’s not going to happen. He’d have to literally post himself making out with her for me to make me see it, which is something he’d never do” October 11, 2023)-
-I guess you want to know one way or the other: does he love me? Does he not love me? And if the answer is a definite He Does Not Love Me, if you are sure of it- then you can let him go..?
As I see it, the problem- which is NONE of your fault (!) is that you are still little-girl Stacy, still needing a home where you can feel safe in, supported, with capable adults in charge.. you need this so to feel capable-enough of forging your own, independent, grown-up life.
And you feel too guilty to forge your own grown up life when your mother is still a self-wallowing child, incapable of a lot of things. Too guilty to leave her behind, too guilty to become capable yourself, when she is not?
I never felt safe at home growing up, Stacy. I learned that as an adult, it was too late for me to recreate my childhood/ to find capable adults who were willing to parent the adult-me. Healing is never complete, it isn’t for me. Healing is about grieving what you needed so desperately and never had, and then, picking up the pieces and doing your best, finally leaving home, daring to grow up all the way, becoming your own person, living your own life- in spite of the guilt and the fear- one step, one day at a time, with determination and courage.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Eva:
I am glad that you asked the questions, now that I dared to read your 100% positive and supportive reply. I postponed reading it until after I answered other members because I was afraid (not at all based on my experience with you!) that as others did, you too would dismiss or belittle my emotionally-traumatizing experience of childhood, that which negatively affected my whole life in severe ways: subjectively (my experience in-between-my-ears) and objectively (the physical/ practical circumstances of my life).
Thank you for your perfect reply! What made it perfect is that it include zero criticism of me, of my thinking and perceptions, and/ or of my no-contact choice.
“It’s a miracle that you survived and became a normal..“- if I am normal now, I wasn’t normal before. Actually, I have a list of diagnoses handed to me by professionals, from Tourette Syndrome, To Obsessive Compulsive Disorder to.. well, other abnormalities.
“It’s a miracle that you survived and became a.. loving person, full of empathy“- I suppose I am these things now (and still working on it),but I wasn’t before.
“It shows how strong… you are“-I was not individually stronger than other individuals in these and other circumstances, individuals who did not survive. It is LIFE itself that is strong, seeking more of itself, and luck plays a significant role.
“It shows how.. intelligent you are“- my intelligence was damaged by the emotional trauma. In person, I am not known to be the sharpest tool in the shed (words used to describe me). It is difficult to impossible for me to make certain connections between pieces of information that I hear. Having all the time in the world to read, reread, research and organize pieces of information on the computer screen- makes all the difference.
“I cannot understand that even after she understood how much she had hurt you, she cannot make an effort. It’s probably stronger than she. She’s been conditioned like this by something she might not realize“- she had a traumatic childhood, having been used and abused. I don’t blame her at all for getting sick as a result. It’s the belittling and dismissing of me as a human being, on a regular basis and forever more, that .. that is her legacy in my life.
“Luckily, you escaped“- I didn’t fully escape her. As you can see in the beginning of this post, I was afraid that you will do to me what she has done: dismiss me. See.. she’s still reaching me.
“Thank you so much for answering my question so honestly. You don’t know how much I appreciate it“- you are welcome and .. again, thank you!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Tammy87:
I am sorry that you were bullied in your teens, and that your bully- so it seems- never apologized and never offered to make amends to you, such as offering you significant financial compensation.
In your original post you asked: “a) am I being petty?“- absolutely not! Her bullying was not petty, as in having little or no importance or significance (an online definition of petty).
You detailed her bullying in your recent post: “threats of violence- threats of spitting in my face when they see me – throwing objects such as cigarette lighters in public at me…“- these are significant offenses. I can imagine how scary it was for you back then to experience this, and how the effects still linger currently.
“b) should I accept this and continue the friendship?“- my answer: no. You say that the bully is still a bully (and she offered no amends to you), so your… former best friend is a friend and supporter of an unrepentant bully..
“c) should I just cut off contact and don’t meet again?“- yes. Don’t meet unrepentant, active bullies and their supporters.
“d) should I risk drama and just tell her how I feel about it…?…I have distanced myself from this friend considerably and see them maybe twice a year now…I feel she would gossip and talk about it to other people“- I wouldn’t share anything with your former friend any more than I’d share with the bully herself. I’d share nothing with either one.. unless, maybe if the bully apologizes to you and offer to make significant amends for her significant offenses against you.
anita
October 11, 2023 at 9:24 am in reply to: Seeing a man still living with his ex after 20 yrs. #422975anitaParticipantDear Shookie:
I slept okay, so that’s good. On the other hand (literally the other hand, the one I am not using to type) is hurting, carpal tunnel syndrome, I think.
The human suffering involved in war is indeed heartbreaking.
Similar to you, I don’t care about travelling to other countries, even at peace time. Last I saw, every big city looks the same/ lost its old uniqueness.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Stacy:
You wrote sometime in late September: “I do not feel like a high value woman because it has not been proven to me by someone I value“. Yesterday, you wrote: “I see value in everyone else but myself. I know that’s my biggest problem“.
You identified your biggest problem and stated it clearly.
Now what: what is to follow this correct identification?
Here is how you followed it recently (I am adding the boldface feature to your quotes): “my ex posted a story on October 1st… I saw on the coworker’s story that they also tagged him… The next weekend, the coworker posted several stories… I also was scrolling Instagram the other night and saw that he…”-
– back to the first quote: “I do not feel like a high value woman because it has not been proven to me by someone I value“. He, your ex, is that someone you value, and you are (still) invested in having him prove to you that you are a high value woman by coming back to you and stating something like: I was wrong, Stacy, YOU are the ONE for me!
In your mind, he is your hope for Salvation: your hope to be Saved from the devastation a person experiences when not seeing value in oneself.
When you place a person in such a position of power over you, every thing he says or does carries a great weight one way or another: if he says X- it means you have value, if he says Y- it means you have no value.
For a year, he gave you lots of X-s: “The whole year I dated him, he was so impressed and supportive and seemingly obsessed with MY jobs, MY interests, MY talents.” But every time he liked women in seductive postures on social media, that was a big Y for you.
I don’t do social media, but if I am not wrong, all it takes to like a photo is to click on it, or on the word “like“. It is effortless to do so, and for a person who is in the habit of doing it, it’s automatic-like, doesn’t involve much thought, if any.. right? And yet a click on the keyboard is a Y for you: it carries so much weight.
Here is what you asked him in regard to liking photos: “Why do you feel the need to go that extra mile and like these types of photos?”- in your mind, clicking on the word “like”= walking a mile..?
Recently, you followed him on social media and you collected Y-s= “proofs” that you were “replaced so swiftly with someone more ‘impressive’“-… replaced with someone with value, that is.
You wrote yesterday: “I can’t figure out how to NOT take someone replacing you personally. It feels so personal.“- it feels personal because you placed him on a pedestal. From that elevated position of Savior, he not just a guy hanging out with a friend, he is your Savior.. not saving you.
Still yesterday, you wrote: “I acknowledge that I allow him to dictate my entire worth about these things and that’s my problem“- once again, you identified the problem correctly.
I will ask again: now what: what is to follow this correct identification?
“My exes have only made me feel that I was not fair and controlling over them.“- here is a problem in regard to any ex who may have been a decent guy, or in regard to a decent guy that you might meet in the future: it is difficult to have one’s words and deeds, however small or .. objectively inconsequential, carry so much weight in a partner’s mind. It doesn’t leave a person much wiggle room, space to move freely/ to feel comfortable to just be.
Even if you go about it (giving so much weight to his every word and click on the keyboard) politely, as politely as can be.. it’s still a problem in a relationship.
“I know I put too many expectations on him. I worry he felt the pressure and I hate I did that to him. I also hate that I will never know what was real or fake with him“- knowing what was real for him and what was less real or fake wouldn’t matter much if you take him off the pedestal where he does not belong. He is.. just a guy, and like any other guy or girl, no one is always real/ authentic, or to the same extent.
Honestly/ authentically, from all that you shared about him, he is not even close to deserve being up there as Savior.
Still yesterday, you wrote: “I’m at an all time low, partially of course from being dumped by someone who claimed to adore me and accept me fully for so long, but also because I’ve now been without my car for several weeks… All of my friends are partnered up, and I’m very tired of doing things with my sister and her kids.”- if you remove the ex, this guy, from the elevated position of Savior, you will no longer be at the lowered position of an all time low, with or without a car.
Why is it taking so much time to fix your car… I wonder if buying a used, very inexpensive vehicle, like a motorized bike, is a better option..?
“My sister must have vented (about) me to her therapist again recently because she told me her therapist suggested I sign up for their free intern session opportunity?.. I’m worried that this may be a young crowd of interns (I’m picturing early to mid twenties), and less experienced”- not a bad suggestion on your sister’s therapist’s part: I would easily trust an educated and trained psychotherapist- although inexperienced- way more than I’d trust your ex when it comes to your healing.
Back to my question: you identified your biggest problem as that of seeing no value in yourself. What may be a doable solution to this biggest problem?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Faith:
I communicated with you back in Jan 2016 about the same man. At the time you indicated the problem to have been “different beliefs and wanted to attend to different churches”. Seven years and nine months later, you found out what you found out about him and you are doing the right thing by your daughter: to have nothing to do with this creep.
I am sorry for the pain you’ve gone through in regard to this person.
anita
October 10, 2023 at 12:16 pm in reply to: Seeing a man still living with his ex after 20 yrs. #422934anitaParticipantDear Shookie, My Friend:
You are welcome. I understand your situation better, in regard to the stalking.
There is a special sentiment on my part, to refer to you as my friend in this post because you mentioned the war, and if you are indeed referring to the war in Israel, which started on Oct 7, it feels like the ending of the world to me.. and your mention of technology is something that’s been very much on my mind: the proud filming of acts of extreme cruelty and spreading them online. It is devastating to think of the hostages and the injured and the traumatized.
Maybe tomorrow will be better.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
I am glad that I was wrong when I thought that you were obsessing about her. Taking a step back sounds just right to me!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Eva:
“I’ve been wondering how you dealt with the situation as a little girl“-I remember very little of my childhood. If a film was to be created by connecting the visuals that I do remember, the film would last a few minutes. I suppose this is an indication that I dealt with the situation by being as dissociated/ removed as my brain allowed me to be, my awareness was minimized. I remember feeling very scared during one night (at 5 or 6 years old, I think), and I remember often feeling very depressed and wishing to die (don’t remember when this started).
“I’ve been wondering… what kind of boundaries you had built up to protect yourself“- none. I mean, other than minimizing my awareness (which was not a thoughtful choice but a reaction determined by nature), there were no boundaries available to me when in her presence. Not any more than a thing would have in her presence, Ex., a sofa would have no say over her choice to sit on it or not, where to sit on it, who to invite to sit on it.. what kinds of pillows to place on it, etc.
“It must have been terrible to realize who she was. How old were you when you had figured it out?“- I am still figuring it out. For the longest time I thought that this entity in front of me (my mother) was good and I was bad, bad for making her angry, bad for causing her pain, bad for not rescuing her from pain.. bad for feeling angry at her. I was caught in an ongoing state of Conflict: feeling very sorry for her and wanting- more than anything in the world- to make her happy/ to compensate her for my alleged badness and defectiveness, AND, on the other hand, hating her. Another way to state my conflict would be to say: Who is good? Who is bad? Trying to be good, I failed every time (again and again, she expressed to me how bad I was).
“I probably cannot even imagine the pain somebody can have when s/he understands that s/he doesn’t exist for her/his mother. S/he is just a thing to feed. It must be terrifying“- she TOLD me that I existed as the center of her world, that everything she did, she had me in mind. So, I believed her, yet her behavior was nothing like what she said. When people were around, she treated them well and she treated me like I didn’t exist as a person, a person like the other persons. And when I was alone with me, when she was NOT angry with me, she’d talk at me, just a constant barrage of words and no matter how much I wanted her to stop talking, she wouldn’t stop. Also, it was a very, very small apartment, no place to hide.
My experience with her was like a 3-dimensional thing (a person, myself) trapped in 2 dimensions, can’t breathe in or out, detained, imprisoned, in desperate need of that 3rd dimension.
“I find it interesting that you think they manipulate out of habit. It means that they don’t even understand they hurt people. It means that we cannot even talk about it because they wouldn’t understand. At least that’s how I feel with my friend. She’s always right, the whole world is wrong, she can explain everything. Nobody can argue with her. Her truth is universal. So I think it’s better to disappear and say nothing”- In this quote, boldfaced what’s true about my mother.
In regard to not understanding that they hurt people, my mother registered in her mind that she has hurt me, she understood. I know because as she delivered a particularly shaming message, there was a look of excited anticipation on her face, an ALIVE look, and when I blushed or looked down to the floor (and then up again), there was a smile on her face, a tiny smile… It makes me smile right this moment as I remember her smile.. it makes me happy right this moment to see her (in my mind’s eye) HAPPY. Oh, how MUCH I wanted her to be happy, MORE than anything in the whole wide world.
I am able to access the emotion right above (something that happened spontaneously and unexpectedly- but not surprisingly, as I typed the above) because I have been in no contact with her for a decade and never will be, so I can.. breathe in and out that 3rd dimension and feel more than before, or better say, be aware of more.
As I look at what I just typed, seeing a girl (me) happy to see her mother happy while being shamed, what this means to me is that I loved her SO MUCH. Like I said earlier in this post: more than anything, I wanted her to be happy.
If only me being happy (vs me feeling ashamed) made her happy… How different my life would be.
But her Happy didn’t last long, so she had to shame me again and again, feeding or feasting on my shame. Looking back, I understand that during those shaming sessions, she projected her shame unto me, and while she observed her success, she was temporarily free from her shame, and that was exhilarating for her, a wonderful feeling. This is the story of how I did, after all, make her happy for short lengths of time, with an immense cost to myself.
anita
October 10, 2023 at 8:11 am in reply to: Seeing a man still living with his ex after 20 yrs. #422927anitaParticipantDear Shookie:
A man you hired to do construction work in your house urinated on the seat & floor of your bathroom (and did not clean after himself), demanded that you buy him toiletries so that he could take a shower in your house… And he pulled into your driveway and rang the bell at ELEVEN AT NIGHT, screaming for you to let him in?.. And this is “only 1/2 of it“?
The neighbor who recommended this worker from hell.. did you talk t him about this..? And did you eventually call the correct Sherif department?
“I feel so ashamed for being so gullible believing in these workers. My Father would be so disappointed in me. I feel that upsets me the most“- I would like to think that your Father is looking down at you from above with love in his heart, extending nothing but care and compassion for you!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Shookie: I feel sad to read that your day hasn’t been a pleasant one. I read only a part of your post (I am just about to go to bed, and still listening to disturbing news about our troubled world), but will read and reply further Tues morning.
anita
anitaParticipantYou are welcome, Caroline, and good to read that you are in a good mental space in regard to the new job!
anita
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