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March 22, 2024 at 11:39 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #428909
anitaParticipantDear ParadoxMusic:
You are welcome and thank you for expressing your appreciation!
“Knowing how humans are, I understood that in each relationship, she probably assumed that her partner then would be the person she would spend the rest of her life with“- here is my edited suggestion to this sentence (a suggestion for you to consider, or not): knowing how I am (and how my father is, and some other people), I understood that B is also like I am, and that she assumed what I assume.
But she has had this aunt/ family in her life who instilled some other assumptions, such as using sex as a tool, disrespecting one own’s body, that it’s okay for an aunt to prostitute her niece.
“I think it’s quite disrespectful that she spent a day with her ex partially nude right after we broke up. Anita, how would you feel if you and your partner broke up and the next day he went right back to his ex?… I don’t think this kind of behavior is a young people issue cause even adults way older than me have had these kinds of experiences with their partner“- I’d say, (1) yes, it is disrespectful, (2) youth has something to do with it: statistically, young people are more impulsive than older people, not considering the consequences of their actions and how their actions will affect others, (3) yes, I totally understand your hurt and anger as a result of her actions, and (4) in the case of your girlfriend, the incident you described where a man gave her aunt money so to have sex with her niece, and how it transpired, with her vomiting, this story is blood chilling and extremely disturbing, and there is no reason for me to believe it was the only incident of prostitution that took place, orchestrated by her aunt, directly or indirectly.
This (item 4) means that there is a BIGGER picture here that you need to see: she needs psychological- emotional help, if she is open to it, help by a professional/ community agency that helps young women in her situation and background.
“What do you think? Should I give her another chance? I always believed that everyone deserves another chance, and as someone who knows the value of a second chance, I am tempted to give it to her, but this experience has completely changed my mind.“- I absolutely think that you should not give her another chance as a girlfriend. I strongly believe that you having sex with her again would be the wrong thing to do.. for you, but also for her.
“It is very hard for me to ignore the possibility that she intentionally chose to go along with her aunt’s plan as a rebound after our break up“- by the time she went along with her aunt’s plan, she had serious mental health issues, including a severe disrespect for her own body/ her own person. Question is: can she heal from the evil that was done to her, or will she perpetrate this evil to others (maybe to her own daughter, if she has one).
“It goes back to what I stated in the previous paragraph: how would you feel if your partner slept with another person right after you break up with them? I believe that is utter disrespect… If she was able to easily move on to the next man, I think it is reasonable to believe that she never loved me properly“- you mention respect and love. Back to the incident (which again, I have no reason to believe it to be the only one of its kind): a man who paid money to her aunt so to have sex with her niece, did what he did and she vomited (please do not repeat that description, it’s too disturbing to read yet again), where is the respect there? Did the aunt respect B when she arranged for that transaction? Did the sexual predator, a predator of girls/ women: did he respect B?
How about love, where was the love? You expect respect and love from a young woman who was shown the opposite of love and respect. I am not saying that you should accept the absence of love and respect from B, or from anyone else. What I am saying is that you should no longer consider resuming a sexual relationship with her, and that she gets the help she needs, professional/ community help that does not involve a sexual transaction.
“Ma’am, this is a 22 year old woman. She is a full grown adult“- yes, physically, she is a full grown adult, an so are you.
“Yes you stated that she probably felt indebted to her aunt for taking care of her. But do you think her loyalty to her aunt is more important than her loyalty to her own future life partner“- her future life partner is not yet known, and there may not be one. She doesn’t yet have a life partner, but she’s had a aunt in her life for two decades.
” (I)… who has PROVEN IT IN HIS ACTIONS THAT EVERYTHING HE DID FOR HER WAS OUT OF THE PURE LOVE THAT HE HAD FOR HER?… A MAN OF GOD“- if you choose to love her still, make your love indeed pure and godly (the gentle version, not the angry/vengeful version of god): no sex with her.
“How can any husband, father, or brother bear the pain of knowing that their wife, daughter or sister was sold off by a relative for sex work?“- sex work that wouldn’t take place if there were no husbands, fathers, and brothers who pay for sex, many who are sexual predators. Your anger is directed at the women.. not at the men?
“She lied to me for a year anita. She could be lying about some of the specifics too, I would never know… How can I bear this pain? How can I ever get over this?… there was another incident with another man, which I forgot to mention earlier. There was another man… Can you see what is happening anita? It’s literally a pattern.. You really cannot tell me that she is not doing this pattern intentionally. There is no way in hell that she did not do this intentionally“- she could be lying, could be manipulating.. likely, as is most often the case, she started a victim, 100% victim, and over the years of disrespect and abuse, turns perpetrator, to one extent or another, and she is still a combination of both. It’s up to each one of us to heal best we can from the first, and do no harm to others.
I understand your anger, but I can’t side with you in saying that B is the Bad One, and you are the Good One. The two of you (true to myself as well), share both, or three things, using the title of a movie, “the good, the bad, and the ugly“.
You want her to change.. but can you change yourself: to endure your pain and anger, and commit to be part of the solution, not part of the problem, that is, to commit yourself to love, not to hate?
“No matter what hard lifestyle she had, I should not have to be forced to put up with this kind of behavior from a woman who knows better. It is not fair that I am being a very loyal, caring man to her“- you see yourself as a very loyal, caring man to her, but you are also a very angry man, angry at her. You shouldn’t try and be in a loving, romantic and sexual relationship with a woman you hate.
“EVERY TIME WE BROKE UP, SHE WENT TO GO ENTERTAIN ANOTHER MAN. LIKE HOW COULD I BE SO STUPID TO GIVE HER ANOTHER CHANCE? AND I DID… THIS IS PURE STUPIDITY… Should I give her another chance?“- what do you think?
anita
anitaParticipantDear IMBACK:
“I have discovered one thing. Love is very difficult.“- loving very difficult people is… very difficult. Another thing that’s very difficult is being too afraid: too afraid to be together, too afraid to be alone, just overall, too afraid.
Best for you would be to lessen your fear/ anxiety by a mindfulness daily regiment of aerobic exercise (fast walking, swimming), listening to calming mindfulness guided meditations, journaling, if that works for you.. If you could join a yoga class or a tai-chi class, that would be great. You can research mindfulness exercises or practices (there are books and workbooks on the topic).
I hope your vacation will work out, take it easy while on vacation, take time out when you need to get away and be alone, and communicate best you can with her.
anita
anitaParticipantDear IMBACK:
“I question a bit if I have BPD… I’m not sure about anything anymore… I might just have to break up, because something is wrong and I am for some reason pointing fingers at my relationship.“- I used to be as confused as you are, maybe even more confused than you are, and for a long time. What a relief it is to have clarity!
Clarity is way, way better than Confusion, and it can- it must- happen for you too: confusion replaced by clarity!
Please keep in mind that it’s okay to end a romantic relationship, it’s not a crime. It happens every day in every part of the world and people survive; many times, people are better for it.
I wish you courage, strength and patience, and may the force be with you (it’s a Star Wars saying)!
anita
March 21, 2024 at 3:11 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428882anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“Of course I am now curious about this political figure“- I was referring to Hitler, and the likes.
“I do think he (F) was inappropriately possessive, but I don’t think it had an affect whether or not he had a girlfriend because he treated my younger sister similarly while he was with a girlfriend… we have another sister… she.. was quite over weight… he didn’t care what she wore, she asked me why once and I did not have an answer for that“- seems to me that the explanation could be that F found you and your younger sister attractive and therefore, he was afraid that others (boys/ younger men) will find the two of you attractive as well, but he didn’t find your overweight middle sister attractive, so he wasn’t afraid that others will find her attractive.
“He doesn’t understand what is appropriate and what is not. I don’t think his intentions were incestuous in any way, if told that he would be stunned at the accusation. I am trying to understand where his inappropriate behavior came from“- seems to me that his intentions were not incestuous. But he did see two of his daughters as sexually attractive women.
“This is a good point, because the awkwardness I have felt is the same feeling when he would point something out. It has taken me many years to be able to wear clothing that flatters my body without feeling dirty and awkward“- you felt dirty and awkward because your father saw you, his daughter, as a sexually attractive young woman.
“I can see this. In anxious states my go to is ‘I am alone.’ In a lower vibrational state I feel loneliness in a negative way, but in the past months of trying to find wholeness within myself… I am alone but I have me, and when I am in my higher vibrations I am content with this“- being in an anxious state and being in a lower vibrational state and lonely are synonymous; being in a higher vibrational state is synonymous with being content when alone..?
Correction to my sentence: “This core experience (loneliness) makes you very sensitive to of normal fluctuations in the level of emotional connection with the people in your life”.
“I acknowledge there is not always a connection… What was so disappointing in the relationship with N was how often this disconnect was, it was becoming the majority of our relationship, just as it is a big proportion of my relationship with F“- I think that the frequent disconnects with N were due to his chronic numbness/ weed abuse, and that in that desert of connection, an extreme thirst for connection/ to be seen was reborn. This thirst was born with F.
* It is not that you have unrealistic expectations for levels and consistency of connection with everyone, and will never be happy with anyone, as I expressed before, under the influence of my extreme, unbalanced thinking (to which I referred yesterday in my short post).
“Loneliness is the problem so feeling connected to myself is the answer?”- connection to oneself and connection to others are two sides of the same coin.
“this makes me think of my dads restrictions on spending time with my friends… my dad would say no you already hung out with them this week, or he would make me come home much earlier than the rest of them… home schooled… I wasn’t allowed to hang out wit all the girls.. I was lonely“- F kept you in a desert of connections, didn’t he: none with him, too little with others..?
“You wrote ‘this entire debate is likely to reoccur in future relationships.’ The reason I don’t think it will is because I am on a trajectory of working to feel whole within myself and not seek a partner to fill the hole… I am happy to be alone for as long as it takes to be whole enough inside to attract a partner who is the same. Two whole people.”- yes, you are on a positive, pondering and growing trajectory. My pessimistic prediction was born out of the All-or-Nothing, Black and White thinking on my part.
“F was certainly a reason I feel disconnected. When you say ‘you were alone in those’ do you mean I was alone in the panic attack?“- you shared that N was with you when you had panic attacks, trying to comfort you, and you added that you were always alone in those before.
“I think it is exciting as well. The bees knees lol. Interesting how closely related my desire to be seen, needing to see myself, see hatch, and then needing to feel connected to myself… I want to feel connected to myself, and I do think I am on the path to doing this. I clearly want it and think my constant curiosity about myself shows me that I am trying… Pondering Seaturtle“-
Pondering, Growing Seaturtle is The bees knees, I says!
anita
anitaParticipantDear IMBACK:
“Maybe I should try and tell her that she may be dealing with BPD“- I suggested that earlier. I think that it’d be best for you to see a counselor/ therapist that specializes in your age group, and who can help you. I think that you need 1-on-1 professional help, not random communications online.
anita
anitaParticipantDear IMBACK:
I think that it’d be a good idea for you to end the relationship with he. Say your goodbye to her, and do it soon, kindly and responsibly (keep it short, be kind). And then, stay away. Don’t go back to her.
anita
anitaParticipantDear IMBACK:
“So what should I do? Should I confront her about this or should I not?“- did you discuss BPD with her?
If you didn’t, you can bring up the topic, print out some reliable online information on the topic and hand it to her, ask her what she thinks about it. Her reaction can make a difference as to what is next.
“What did you think about the back and fourth between me and Roberta?“- I think that her suggestion that you do some volunteer work in your community, to connect with people in this way, is an excellent idea. What do you think?
anita
anitaParticipantDear IMBACK:
I am saying that if she fits the BPD criteria, a healthy relationship with her is impossible, impossible for you, impossible for any person in your place. Imagine a 100% healthy young man in your place (if there was such a thing), he’d get sick, sooner than later, being in a relationship with a BPD woman.
anita
anitaParticipantDear IMBACK:
Welcome back!
“I’m pretty sure she has BPD, because her mom has it and she have been exposed for it the last 18 years. She fits every description there is of BPD“- it so happens that my mother fit the criteria for BPD, and I have been diagnosed with it myself (following many years of purposeful healing, I no longer fit the criteria). BPD is like the kiss of death when it comes to close relationships. It is simply impossible for intimacy/ emotional closeness to survive the unpredictable, explosive behaviors of the BPD person. You walk on eggshells around them. Fear takes over where love used to be.
“I get the feeling that I have to act a certain way. Like a mirror of hers. I have to find things funny that she finds funny. It actually feels like going to jail when I’m with her… I have become someone I am not… I have lost myself and I’m still not happy at all… I don’t enjoy her company anymore. She reminds me of negative things“- this is how I felt as a child and a teenager growing up with my mother. I was focused on her and lost myself. It felt like being in jail, not having the SPACE to be me, to have my own thoughts, feelings. She (my mother) took over all of my space. It was torture. Like you, I was not happy at all, didn’t enjoy her company. The very sight of her, her voice.. the touch of her hand, it all got infected with bad memories, bad feelings.
“I want to fight for this relationship“- you can fight, but for as long as she fits the BPD diagnosis, you will lose the fight. Maybe she’d be willing to see a professional for an evaluation and treatment…?
anita
March 21, 2024 at 11:29 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #428864anitaParticipantDear ParadoxMusic:
At first, as I was reading your story (original post), it read like a love story in the making, a 17 year old (to turn 18 in two months) meeting a 22-year-old woman (B) in college back in 2022, both wearing masks (a Covid Love Story), you were infatuated with “the most beautiful woman” (mask off), butterflies in your stomach, heart pounding… alone in the elevator, another study session… a kiss, your very first, “the weirdest, most sensational feeling“.. Halloween, you see “a naked woman for the first time” (B), she made you breakfast, you were “very much in love with her“. First sign of trouble, she tells you that she has feelings for you and for her ex, you broke up, the next day she told you that she chose you. The next day she broke up with you, later to tell you that she “could not bear to be without” you. Another sign of trouble: you saw a picture of her with a towel, naked, with another man (an ex), a picture that was taken after one of the breakups between the two of you (hence the “cheating“ and technicality you mentioned in the title of your thread). When you turned 18, the two of you watched a movie while cuddling, and you introduced her to your parents. More breakups followed, including “constant severe fighting“, and getting back together again, “after she apologized for her behavior and understood her mistake“. All this so far quite intense, but still in the parameters of teenagers/ very young people in love.
But then… the story goes into one of life’s very dark sides (reminds me of your use of the words dark energy in a earlier thread). I will summarized this dark side from what you shared: B’s parents neglected B, so her aunt took her in, and proceeded to be.. not a mother for B, but B’s pimp (“the aunt was receiving the money from a married man who was looking for a sexual release with a woman, and she was waiting for the opportunity to sell my girlfriend to him for sex“), and indeed, her aunt arranged for sex between the two, which happened. And this was known and approved of by her extended family.
Following you finding out about this, in one of the getting back together times, she seemed to not understand the wrongness of what she participated in, and she blamed you again (“She continued to blame me for her own stupid behavior… I ..explained to her in the simplest terms possible what exactly she did and why it was wrong“). Following that, she “realized her mistake and asked (you) to take her back“. After that, you found out that she posted “pictures of herself in a bikini at a resort with her male friend, who is a rich old man“.
It seems to me, ParadoxMusic, that you are focused on the lesser aspect of all this (whether she cheated on you or not), and you minimize the bigger story here, this human tragedy: the prostitution of B, arranged by her aunt, and approved of by her extended family.
“She is a good woman overall, but there are these stupid red flags that I cannot ignore… she proved that she was wife material (excluding her stupid antics)“- the terms stupid red flags and stupid antics are stark minimizations of what is happening.
“What should I do?“- research online the topic of rehabilitating sex workers in the country where you and B live. Not that you can rehabilitate her, but maybe you can gather better understanding of the situation, and refer her to a good agency that works with sex workers on their rehabilitation.
I believe that you are correct when you say that B is “a good woman overall“, but she was trained by her aunt to do this kind of work, and she is loyal, I imagine, to her aunt because her aunt took care of her when her parents wouldn’t. She may feel indebted to her aunt.
“Did it not register in her head what a horrible person her aunt is? Is she still that stupid?“- it is very difficult for a child to see a parent or a parent figure as a bad, horrible person. It’s not out of stupidity, but out of a child’ needs to feel safe. A child who perceives her parent- with whom she lives- to be a horrible person, would experience to much fear about the danger of living with, and being dependent on a horrible person. This emotional dynamic extends to adulthood.
“I have not slept properly in months. Should I give her another chance? She says that she understands her mistakes.. She says I will heal from the trauma of what she did but I don’t see any progress“- she says she understands.. but she doesn’t does she? She says that you will heal, but is she healing?
Be her friend, if you can handle it, but not her boyfriend or her husband, unless and until such time (if it will happen, it will be a long time from now) that she heals and gets rehabilitated.
“The amount of rage I felt in that one second, was enough to force me to kill anyone who pissed me off right then. But I didn’t. I controlled my feelings. I controlled my rage”- congratulations for controlling your rage!
You had a painful childhood and adolescence yourself paradoxMusic, such that resulted in chronic pain and darkness (“I have this weird pain in my chest that wouldn’t go away. I’ve grown used to this now and I call the feeling I get when I encounter this ‘Dark Energy’“, March 6, 2020). You are a very intelligent young man, and you are studying medicine. Focus on your studies and on your mental health. Help those who need help, if and when you are able, but sinking into their troubles, taking on their dark energy will not help you or them.
I hope to read more from you and I wish you well.. (and I wish B well too).
anita
anitaParticipantDear Danny:
I think that the purpose behind the message You Are Enough in self-help books is to create a calm, positive mindset in the reader (if only for a moment), so that the reader will be motivated to improve what he/ she needs to improve.
The alternative message You Are Not Enough, when repeated many times by a parent becomes You Will Never Be Good Enough, and this message demotivates a person to improve, the person gives up.
“If I am a bad father, am I enough? Or can I not aim to improve as a father? Similarly, if I am a bad husband, should I not look to grow and evolve?“- if you are a bad father/ husband/ friend/ neighbor/ employee/ etc., you are not enough and you should improve. But notice: it is I who is saying that another person should improve. How do I motivate another person to want to improve?
By pointing to the part of them that is good-enough so that the person has a good-enough basis to grow and evolve from. I had to find that basis within myself, without which I wouldn’t have been able to grow and evolve in the ways that I have.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Danny:
You are welcome. “If my best is never good enough, what should I aspire to be each day, if not the best version of myself?“- if your best is never good enough for your inner critic, aspire to fire the harsh, unfair, disapproving critic and replace him with a gentle, fair, positive inner critic.
Imagine you are working for a boss who keeps telling you that your work is not good enough, no matter how hard you try.. do you keep trying forevermore to be good enough for that boss, or do you “fire’ that boss and seek another for whom you are good enough?
anita
March 20, 2024 at 5:34 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428839anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I read through your two posts, and in regard to the second, I realize my strong tendency, in my analyses, to go too much in one direction or the other, lacking a balanced/ moderate, inclusive thinking, a black-and-white/ all-or-nothing thinking which is in my way of understanding people (including you) and situations.
I apologize for the confusion or discomfort this has caused you. I will do my best to think in a balanced way tomorrow.
anita
March 20, 2024 at 5:01 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428836anitaParticipantDear Pondering Seaturtle: I will read and reply Thurs morning, have a good night!
anita
March 20, 2024 at 4:57 pm in reply to: Is he playing?? Have I been ghosted?? Feeling stupid and heartbroken #428835anitaParticipantDear Lavern:
“Does that mean he was being dishonest and playing games..“- from all that you shared, reads to me that he is mentally/emotionally unwell, not that he is well and is cold-heartedly playing games with you.
“I’m soo confused and heartbroken. It is extremely difficult moving on.. especially living in close proximity to one another.“- the behaviors of people who are mentally ill are indeed confusing.. until you understand what ails them.. what ails us (mental illness is so very common, unfortunately).
Do the best you can to take care of yourself. Seems like he is not good for your mental health, You need someone who is consistent, reliable, dependable, and he is not it.
Please post again any time with your thoughts and feelings and I will reply.
anita
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