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anitaParticipant
Your short note and emoji brought the first smile to my face, first in two days, thank you, Eva!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Eva:
You are very welcome! To answer your questions as attentively and as thoroughly as I’d like, I’ll need to reply to you Tues morning, in about 16-20 hours from now.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
I think that there are two issues/ problems here: (1) the nature of the relationship with your female coworker and (2) obsessing about it. These two different issues require different sets of management/ solutions. I wish you attend to the second issue in the next few days and “chill a bit” just like you wrote 40 minutes ago. Redirect your attention elsewhere: a mindfulness meditation online, physical exercise, a hot bath.. a movie..?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Ben:
“I realised all the trust I had for him before, that was so implicit, was now all in doubt“- for how long, would you say, did you experience an implicit.. complete trust in him? I am asking because my impression is that you’d have doubts in any romantic interest/ relationship sooner or later..?
“I realised I was now much more protective of myself and guarded“- again, I think that being protective and guarded is a state that preceded you meeting this particular man. If this is the case, then don’t be alarmed by experiencing this at this particular time, in this particular circumstance.
Your relationship anxiety is a long-term challenge. It can’t magically disappear no matter what. It takes work and time to manage it, and with the right man- resolve it as much as it can be resolved.
“My anxieties sometimes get the better of me but I do manage to take control… Still they do get the better of me sometimes and I find myself just sending silly doubts and embarrassing myself…“- my anxieties get the better of me too sometimes.. and I too embarrass myself. When it happens, I try to not judge myself but instead, be understanding and compassionate with myself, so that I can do better next time.
The situation with him reads quite promising to me, but not without challenges, of course. One day at a time, Ben!
anita
October 9, 2023 at 12:50 pm in reply to: Seeing a man still living with his ex after 20 yrs. #422891anitaParticipantDear Shookie:
Thank you for your empathy, My Friend. I extend the same to you: empathy for the pain you suffer every day about your parents not being alive. And for your fear of losing Stash, particularly if it happens when he is not in your arms, or not at peace. I know that you are the best pet mom there is, so Stash, all your fur babies are fortunate.
The weather here has been quite hot and sunny, after being colder and grey for a while. Humid or not, I wear my hair in a ponytail and keep it orderly using hair gel.
“I went out today running some errands & people are getting so mean. I was in the grocery store & 2 women fighting over a can of fruit“- I think that the world overall is getting meaner. There is a recent study done somewhere, finding (what I suspected before) that there is a connection between the weather and how mean people are: the hotter the world, the meaner/ more violent people become.
“I am so torn about a situation & maybe you can share your wisdom on the subject. Here goes, My girlfriend which I would give my life for if needed & both of us mirror one another with the exception of religion. She keeps telling me if I don’t start going to Church & believing in God I will go to hell. I believe in a higher power except not the same beliefs as her…”-
– my input: there’s nothing you can do about it: she believes that it is her job/ her calling as a Christian to help you end up in heaven with her, in her Christian brand of heaven. She will not be satisfied with your belief or brand of a higher power unless it is equal to hers. She’ll keep hoping that you become a Christian like her, and you can’t make her stop hoping. She means well.
“We have already made plans on spending Thanksgiving together…When she comes to my home she tells me I need to remove all my Buddhas… I am not going to put them away for anyone. My house“- it is of course, your house= your choice how to decorate it. I was thinking that if I was in your shoes, and let’s say she was my guest for Thanksgiving, I would take the Buddha decorations down just for that one evening, out of respect for her. But I imagine that doing this would encourage her to try even harder to turn you into a Christian…?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
“there is something going on. And he was kind of.. mesmerized with her too…“- there was something going on between them, yes, something touching on the romantic, maybe more.
“I believe it (the concert) is not something you would drive for hours and stay for the whole weekend and spend money on. But I am not sure, right? I will never know“- if in her mind and heart, you were the good friend she tells you that you are, someone she felt close with.. you would have known because she would have told you.
Most recently, you asked her.. and she denied. She chose to not tell you: “when I asked her she took loooooonnnggg to answer… And she answered something basic… she denied“.
“I think I have the right to be angry here… We are planning to meet Saturday so I am hoping to get this resolved“- If you’d be worried about this for the next five days before you meet her, I wish you could resolve this before Saturday. Maybe by sending her an email, if you communicate by email. Otherwise, Sat comes, and I imagine that she’ll deny again that her interest is in seeing him and that she’s been using you as a means to that end.
anita
anitaParticipantDear EvFran:
Thank you! “Yes, she probably loved her mother, although she says no“- I got caught up in so much anger at my mother that I .. forgot that I ever loved her. I remembered only recently, after years of no-contact with her when I felt relatively safe from her.
When in contact with her all those years, I was in a war-mode state of mind in which anger was a needed emotion, serving to protect myself from her, to fight back, to survive the war. Love was dangerous because it is a motivator for the prey (me) to get closer to the predator (my mother). And so, love was pushed down, buried under my awareness while anger filled my awareness. After years of no-contact, after being sure (I promised myself this) that I will never be in contact with her again, no matter what, the anger dissipated just enough for some of the early-life, buried (immense) love for her to partly seep back to my awareness.
“It’s just difficult to understand that someone tells you she loves and trusts you and when you are not around she forgets about you, you don’t exist anymore“- imagine that you didn’t exist (in her mind) while you were around her. For years, I thought that I very much existed for my mother, that I was the center of her world. I believed that because she told me so (that everything she does, she does for me, etc.) But in her mind, there was no sight of me other than a thing to feed, clothe, treat when sick, etc.
“I am wondering whether she does it on purpose. Is she able to calculate how to use people ahead for months? Or is it spontaneous, she cannot help it“- I find that most often, outside the context of planned and executed financial schemes and such, people dishonestly manipulate others not in a calculated way, with a clear intent, and a laid out plan, carefully executed. Most often, people dishonestly manipulate others out of habit. Similarly to you tying your shoes out of habit.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
“I have this feeling that I am the spare friend… I would prefer to our friendship or whatever to be just how it is, not pretending we like each other more than we actually do.. And I think she pretends… I know she wouldn’t come her for me, I am sure of it…. I don’t feel this connection between me and her to be that strong. I hope it’s not confusing, what I am trying to say”-
-it’s not confusing to me: you don’t want to be used as a means for an end, the end being meeting him and spending time with him, and you don’t want to be lied to, as part of being used. By lying I am referring to her pretending that she wants to meet you and spend time with you because of a strong connection she allegedly has with you.
In the overall picture of life, her using you this way and the pretending that goes along with it is not one of the worst crimes people commit against others, but it’s still wrong and hurtful to be used and lied to. So, if I was you, I will no longer allow her to use you.
“I asked her and she denied. When I asked about her moods and silent treatment she gave him… she said he was just annoying coz ‘he’s a guy’. And that I am not annoying and she likes me. Reads to me… SHE LIKES HIM…”-
– I agree. Her answer (“he is just annoying coz ‘he’s a guy‘”) reads like an answer an infatuated school girl would give when caught off guard with a question such as the one you asked her.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
I will be able to read and reply to your recent post, and any that you may add to it, in two days from now (it is now Sat, 12:03 pm here)
anita
October 6, 2023 at 10:15 am in reply to: Seeing a man still living with his ex after 20 yrs. #422841anitaParticipantDear Shookie:
Thank you! Hunter was hit by a deer and died during surgery. I still hear him sometimes and see him as I drive in, or out, I see him waiting for me.
Reading about Stash hanging on is inspiring! I had the first smile of the day on my face reading about your precious fur babies: Stash, frisky Izzy, and your Balinese. You are taking very good care of them all. They are fortunate to have you!
Take care of yourself, My Friend!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Eva:
You are welcome! “My Swiss friend… was downloading all her frustration on me, telling me all kind of negative things about him and about all her friends. But later she went back to him and acted very friendly with her friends. Go figure out..“- my mother did the same thing in regard to the people in her life: she would download her frustrations with them, on me, and then relieved, it was easier for her to go back to acting nice with them, extra nice, extremely nice.
She used me as a pressure relief valve (PRV), a device used to control or limit pressure in a system.
“You are right about my French friend as well. It’s all about her. You cannot finish a sentence, she interrupts you… Nobody else exists“- she is stuck in the narcissistic childhood development stage when a child (about 2-4 years old): will not listen to other children, will interrupt, will not share her toys, and will forcibly take from others what she wants.
Only that unlike a young child, she has learned to dishonestly manipulating people: she doesn’t use her physical force to make you do what she wants you to do, she uses instead the force/ power of words (“I love you”, “I trust you”).
“You are right about the lack of love in her life. She said her mother disliked her, she doesn’t have one single positive memory of their relationship. She is 67 now. She was apparently not loved by her first husband and she never loved him either… She doesn’t love her actual husband and she knows he does not love her either… she goes after money because her actual husband is extremely rich and she had made him change bank..“-
– No doubt that she loved her mother and couldn’t get her mother to love her back. Her mother expressed no empathy/love for her=> she experiences no empathy/ love for the people in her life.
Her mother disliked/ didn’t love her=> she believed (for sixty plus years) that she is unlovable and that people don’t love her (even when they do)=> she doesn’t love them.
She uses people not as sources of love and emotional support, but as sources of financial support, either by adding money to her accounts (ex., her first husband), or by making it possible for her to not subtract money from her accounts (free labor and services).
“All in all, I feel light and relieved to be out of her dramas. I am maybe naive and first I always believe what people tell me“- me too. I also believe what people tell me (in real-life). Even when it is clear to others that they’re joking, I automatically take their words literally, and as true. A young child- when lied to by her mother, or when witnessing her mother pretending to be very nice to others but very angry at them behind their backs- is too young to process this disturbing dichotomy, so she becomes blind and deaf to it. Fast forward, the now adult (like me) understands that her mother lied and pretended, but when hearing a person talk in real-life (vs reading a person’s writing on a computer screen and having all the time to read and re-read), I cannot detect the dichotomy, I cannot hold in my awareness these two parts: what a person said and (if different) what a person meant
Good to be communicating with you again, Eva!
anita
anitaParticipantDear faaiza:
I know how it feels to be scared, too scared to take any action, watching time passing you by. I too had dreams of acting. I used to fantasize (when I was a teenager) about being an internationally famous movie star, or a dancer, performing for audiences of millions all over the world. Fast forward, at 18, I applied to a famous acting school and was rejected. I attended some acting classes elsewhere, and in my 20s, I applied to one (only one) voice acting job that was published in a newspaper.. and didn’t get the job. Not an impressive acting career, is it?
Back to my fantasies, those daydreams, they were very enjoyable. It was oh, so pleasurable to see (in my mind’s eye) many thousands of people clapping their hands and cheering for me. In real-life, I was the loneliest teenager in the world, no one cheered for me, no one even knew what I was thinking or feeling. No one asked.
Do you relate to this experience?
anita
anitaParticipantDear surfthesky:
Welcome back! This is your 4th thread here. Your first was in May 2020 (age 20), 2nd in April 2021, your 3rd in December 2021, and your current, October 2023 (age 23). I replied to you 4 times, beginning in your first thread, and you replied to me one time, in April 2021. In total, you submitted 4 original posts and one reply.
Here is what you shared in five posts: your mother had you when she was very young, your father left the two of you shortly after your birth and you were in no contact with him since. When you were 4, your stepfather entered your life as a father figure. Two younger siblings were added to the family, one of whom has ADHD, and is very time-demanding of your parents (your mother and stepfather).
While growing up, your young mother was a student in university, and you were mostly raised by your grandparents. You moved a lot, having lived in 3 countries. Your mother and stepfather were very busy with your two younger siblings, and “never had much time” for you, nor were they “really interested in talking.. or just spending time” with you. When they had time for you, they were “very demanding, very strict… criticised” you a lot. During your last year in high school, because your parents were to move again, you stayed with neighbors who offered to take you in, so that you can finish school. It was living with them that you witnessed for the first time, a different kind of relationship between parents and their children.
Back in April 2021, you didn’t speak with your parents for a while, so “to have time to figure things out without their presence” in your life. You ended your one reply back then with: “The need to satisfy them, to show them that I am time-worthy is definitely existing“.
When you were 14, you had a male friend (16) who became your boyfriend/ your first love. At one point during the relationship, you “started having real anxiety problems and simply serious problems” with yourself, and you didn’t treat him well. He eventually broke up with you. You dated other guys since, but “it didn’t really work out“.
You finished school in 2019 (ag 19), had a “pretty bad knee injury and required some operations“, started studying biology at a university in a different, bigger city “without really knowing what” you wanted. While at university, you started missing your first boyfriend. You wrote him a letter and he wrote you back. The two of you then had deep talks: he told you that he never got over you, and the two of you talked about meeting again. You were conflicted at the time: “On the one hand, I am really happy just to have him once again in my life. But on the other hand, I overthink a lot. I am scared to get heartbroken again… I genuinely ask myself: was it fate or is this whole thing one big mistake?“.
As you were conflicted about the possibility of resuming the relationship with your first boyfriend, you were also conflicted about your Major. You realized that “biology wasn’t the right fit” for you, and in your 4th semester, you were “still not sure” what you wanted to study instead of biology. You wrote: “I can’t seem to decide. And I think the problem lies within me. I keep searching for the ‘perfect thing’. Another thing is that I am always thinking about what other people would think about me. ‘What will I study that will make me super successful? Will they be jealous of me? Will they finally approve me?’ I feel so bad because in one month I will become 21 and I still haven’t figured out what it is that I want… It’s the wanting so much and achieving nothing“.
Next, you decided on psychology as your major, you applied for it in a Vienna university, and you were accepted. Before moving to Vienna, you walked “the Camino de Santiago in Spain for a month” in Sept 2021. This is what you wrote about that time: “After I got the acceptance and went walking the Camino everything seemed to change. It was the first time I actually started to heal when I was on the Camino; meeting so many different, beautiful spirits… It was the first time since a very long time I felt so good about myself again, laughing so much every day… I wasn’t afraid of people going to hurt me… People actually liked me!“.
After the spiritual journey was concluded, you arrived in Vienna, but had trouble finding a shared flat. You applied to many, but was rejected: “I end up getting rejected, them choosing someone else over me. And I just can’t seem to figure out why; why am I never good enough? I feel like this whole situation triggers all the problems I used to have with myself, just when I thought things were getting a lot better… this is the same as it always was for me: I am never good enough… I am never enough for people to actually like me.., nothing has changed, I am the kid no one wanted to be friends with all over again.. I really don’t know how to become the person I was on the Camino on my day to day life, free-spirited and someone who is loved by everyone. I miss having easy conversations, not overthinking every sentence I say“, December 2021.
Almost 2 years later, yesterday, you shared that for 1.5 years (since abut April 2022), you’ve been in a long-distance relationship with a man you met in the Camino de Santiago in Spain back in Sept 2021. The two of you having time off your respective universities, spent the recent summer together “experiencing ‘puppy-love’.. This love feels very pure and innocent and he makes me very happy, even if long-distance is not easy“. Back in his country, he started his new degree, and told you about girl in his new class whom “he seems to like.. enjoys her company“.
You shared that his is a great boyfriend, very attentive, thoughtful and nice; he puts a lot of effort into the relationship, calls you frequently, visits you, listens to you, you trust him and think highly of him, and he told everyone that you are his girlfriend. But you are jealous in regard to the girl he likes in class.
“Now, why do I feel jealous every time he mentions her?… I can’t help but feel this jealousy rise up and I wonder why… Is it because I subconsciously think I am not good enough? As I know that I have often struggled with low self-esteem. Or is it that he is so far away, that I feel things are out of my control?… How do I go on about the situation? Why do I feel so jealous, specifically about this one person?“-
– I think that you feel jealous because you’re thinking that maybe this girl in his class is good-enough and that your boyfriend will realize that by comparison, you are not (good-enough), and that when he realizes this, he will reject you. The fact that he lives physically far away from you, and physically close to her does not help at all.
From my very personal and long-lasting experience of feeling not good enough, being less worthy than others, I can relate to how intoxicating and magical it feels at times when (temporarily) you feel good-enough, equally worthy to others. When a person suffering from this devastating feeling of being less-than/ not good-enough- is experiencing something very different, like when you were accepted to the Vienna University and then went on the Camillo pilgrimage- it feels as magical as.. surfing the sky.. doesn’t it?
I have much more to share, but would like to share it in the context of communicating with you back and forth for a while, if you are willing.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Eva:
You are welcome.
The friend in Switzerland– “She had a boyfriend and stayed with him most of the time“- could have had relationship problems with him, angry with her boyfriend but unable to break up with him, she came back home (to the flat), and misdirecting her anger at you, breaking up with you (placing your stuff on street). This is only a possibility.. (I wonder if the honey, the almost empty honey jars in the fridge, had something to do with her relationship with her boyfriend.. a sexual play perhaps).
The friend in France– “She yells at her husband every day. Often because of small things like he ate a boiled egg!… she needed to get married because of an overstayed visa issue. The relationship was not working at all but she had no other solution“-
– so, she wants to cut him off, but she can’t because she doesn’t want to lose her legal status in France, nor the “very big.. huge house.. the (huge) garden.. pool… travel“, etc. (?), so she cuts you off, again and again (“she just cuts me off… she cut me off again“) because she doesn’t risk her legal status in France, etc., when she cuts you off .
This may be part of the dynamic with her. But there is more: “I started to do the laundry, huge bedsheets, her and her husband’s clothes. I ironed everything. I was taking care of the plants… I fixed her pool… I took care of her 2 cats. I help preparing food, serving to guests, cleaning up afterwards. She and her husband travel a lot, so I would stay in the house during that time. She tells me she can only trust me“-
– you wrote the day before yesterday: “what surprises me is that they want you so much in their lives, they tell you nice things and then they drop you“- telling you that she trusts you, and only you is a nice thing to hear. Hearing it makes a person feel special, and it motivates a person to benefit the one saying it, in such ways as to do her laundry, iron her clothes, take care of her plants, etc., for free. This manipulative kind of talk is not surprising once you understand the person’s motivation.
“When she is there, she tells me about all her childhood and marriage problems… she suggested that I ship everything from there to her place in France, so we can start our business. That’s what she promised several times already. When I left, she stopped talking to me… Somehow we started to chat when mum died in March. She asked me on May 26th if I could fly to her place on May 30th. I said yes. I arrived and the next day they were gone for 3 weeks. I didn’t know that. We were supposed to work on our business plan. I am happy to help her out and I feel for her… I understand her frustration… she cut me off again. That’s why I think she is narcistic”-
-Even narcissists feel frustrated, have relationship problems, etc. So, you feel empathy for them.. Problem is, empathy is not reciprocated, so she is all about herself, and none about you. When you accommodate a narcissist, you are all about her, and none about you.
In cartoons and very fictional movies (Batman comes to mind), the bad characters are visibly and audibly bad at all times, laughing in that evil way, always doing evil things. In real life, bad/ narcissistic people seem .. oh so human sometimes: they were someone’s victim in the past, someone did them wrong, they have problems you can relate to, so you feel for them. But these are only selected scenes in a real-life movie. In other scenes- which you shouldn’t ignore- they break their promises and easily! They say things for a purpose: to have you benefit them, etc.
“She is extremely friendly and kind when we are with others and that’s how I knew her. But at home it seems that she is frustrated, impossible to please“- the extremely -friendly-and-kind scene is an act that it too tiring to carry on all the time. When the guests leave, she can.. rest and be herself.
You wrote the day before yesterday: “My concern with certain friendships is that they start to get closer, they invite you all the time, they tell you they love you, they offer their help or home, they say how talented you are etc.”- when you are dealing with a narcissist, it’s you who starts to get closer to her, made possible by you feeling empathy for her. She, on the other hand, does not get close to you: no empathy for you. It only feels to you that it’s close on both sides.
And because she is not a cartoon character, she was once an innocent child, so she experienced feeling empathy (for a parent, I am guessing), she experienced the need to be loved.. so, when she tells you things, part of her relates to what she is saying. But it’s only a part of her, not a part you can depend on.
“And then they let you drop with no understandable reason. That’s what confuses me the most“- she lets you drop when it suits her, because it’s not a big deal for her to drop you, especially if she knows that she can.. pick you up later, so to speak (lure you back in) when it suits her.
Still, from the day before yesterday: “I think that I might attract narcistic people. They talk a lot about their issues, I listen… they talk more about their interpersonal issues, reporting the same stories, I still listen… They usually never ask how you are, what’s up with you“- my point: it’s all about them and none about you. When they remember to manipulate you, then they ask about you and add that they love you, etc.
Back to your most recent post: “Why does she tell me she trusts me and love me if once I leave, she doesn’t keep in touch. I think a friendship can be maintained even when we are in different countries“- it’s not a friendship. It only appear like a friendship if you remove some scenes of this real-life movie, and see them in isolation.
* The title of your thread: Why friends disappear? My answer: friends don’t disappear, not by choice.
“I am really confused what’s going on in her head.”- me! me!.. me!
“I just wonder why I got into it again“- because you were confused.
“I won’t repeat it, for sure. She can tell me she loves and trusts me, I will stay away“- good thing. If you time yourself as you say the words to no one, just utter the words with no one in mind: “I love you and I trust you”: how many seconds did it take? How many calories did you burn? It was quick and effortless, wasn’t it? This is all it takes for a narcissist to say these words to someone who in their mind.. is no one.
* My mother was/ is a narcissist. I was her.. no one.
anita
October 4, 2023 at 10:19 am in reply to: Seeing a man still living with his ex after 20 yrs. #422718anitaParticipantDear Shookie:
You got dehydrated because of high temperatures.. working in the yard too many hours without drinking water?
Good to read that you are feeling better! In regard to the tree, no matter on whose property it is, it is your right to have it cut down, being that it is likely to destroy your house/ your property, right?
“Going back outside to seal my front steps. I am picturing myself falling“- because you didn’t fully recover from being dehydrated?
“I still picture you walking your dog everyday with a Beautiful Smile“- Hunter the beagle passed away Dec 2021. Talking about lightening, he passed away at a time when lightening and very strong winds were happening, lots of trees fell down. I still see the many trees that fell down on my walks/ when driving (a significant change in scenery). It’s a reminder that nothing is the same since he’s been gone.
anita
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