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December 14, 2023 at 11:08 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426071
anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I want to start today’s post with the link you provided some time ago about auras, it says (I am adding the boldface feature):
“When someone references an ‘aura,’ they’re talking about the unseen spiritual energy field that surrounds all living things. ‘Anything alive has an aura,’… Energetically speaking, white is thought to be a very high vibrational color, relating to pure light… White is the rarest of all aura colors and indicates purity, integrity and a high level of spirituality.’ Because it’s associated with the crown chakra, it also relates to universal energy and oneness…
“Generally speaking, white auras will appear bright and glowing… associated with innocence, generosity, altruism, wisdom, as resistance to corruption… If one’s aura is bright white, this indicates their crown chakra is open—hence why this aura is so rare; not everyone gets around to unblocking their crown chakra in their lifetime…. They search for meaning, purpose, and connection…
“These folks can still face their own set of challenges. Their purity, for example, can sometimes result in naiveté… ‘Because they always wish to see the good… they may sometimes be naive to other people’s true intentions.. People may take advantage of them through manipulation or dishonesty…
“People with white auras love deep conversations and would rather avoid the small talk. ‘This is because they are always curious to grow, gain wisdom, and understand life and the meaning of it better… If the white appears dark or murky, this could indicate ‘naiveté, judgment, self-sacrifice to the extent of self-harm, and allowing others to deceive or manipulate them in the hopes of finding greater good,'”.
And now, to your three posts from yesterday (the italicized are quotes of what you wrote, and the boldfaced- quotes from the online link above):
“Trying to fit the mold so that you will receive genuine affection, and the mold = hatch’s cage“- Trying to fit a manipulator’s mold/ N’s mold, in the hopes of finding greater good, which would be the kind of love that indicates purity, integrity and a high level of spirituality, something that N is not capable of.
“Part of the damage, I believe, in our gaslighter and gaslightee dynamic, is that it made me question my feelings a lot… it has also shaken my confidence about my feelings“- N re-introduced (F was the original introducer) the dark or murky into your white aura, having been in the position to deceive or manipulate you, replacing your gut (feelings true to reality) with fear.
“When M made that insensitive comment, and it hurt my feelings, I suddenly felt weak“- M participated in the introduction of the dark or murky into your white aura. There are plenty of people who do that.
“How do I begin to gain some self confidence in my intuition and feelings, do I need some tougher skin?“- the answer is not to close the crown chakra because of fear, but to open it even more and shine brighter.
I think that a quote from the book you mentioned earlier, The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself explains how to open your heart and crown chakra when experiencing fear/ pain:
“When you feel pain, simply view it as energy. Just start seeing these inner experiences as energy passing through your heart and before the eye of your consciousness. Then relax. Do the opposite of contracting and closing. Relax and release. Relax your heart until you are actually face-to-face with the exact place where it hurts. Stay open and receptive so you can be present right where the tension is. You must be willing to be present right at the place of the tightness and pain, and then relax and go even deeper. This is very deep growth and transformation. But you will not want to do this. You will feel tremendous resistance to doing this, and that’s what makes it so powerful. As you relax and feel the resistance, the heart will want to pull away, to close, to protect, and to defend itself. Keep relaxing. Relax your shoulders and relax your heart. Let go and give room for the pain to pass through you. It’s just energy. Just see it as energy and let it go”.
“N’s last words ‘So you’re breaking up with me cause I wasn’t delicate enough with you?’ Am I too delicate? weak“- N is weak, too weak to open his heart and mind (his heart and crown chakras). You are strong because you are keeping your heart and crown chakras open and vibrating.
“Why are my feelings hurt easily and how do I become stronger, but at the same time not deny what is true?“- aim at not taking other people’s (N’s, M’s) hurtful or insensitive words as The truth. N, for example, is not about strength, but about appearances of strength. If you see this statement as true, you will see his claims about strength and about your alleged weakness- as false.
“When I feel more invincible, after yoga, or just certain times of the month when estrogen sores, I feel less affected by others, but there are inevitably times I feel more sensitive, but just avoiding people doesn’t seem like the correct answer, often my temptation“- go to the quote above from The Untethered Soul.
“My family reminds me I am strong, but I also think I have some self esteem work to do. I don’t want to need others, I am not sure how much I am suppose to need others, because I don’t want to be the type of person that says ‘I don’t need anybody’ but I also definitely don’t want to be the opposite. this is a balance I struggle with, leaning more on the side of wanting others to be there for me, but am often disappointed“- we all “people who need people” like the song People says. It’s just that like the link says above: “this aura is so rare; not everyone gets around to unblocking their crown chakra in their lifetime”, so there’re lots of disappointments.. unless you have realistic expectations of people.
“You know what this makes me think, as an empath in a relationship with N, I must have taken on his stress for a long time… I wonder what the book would write about once an empath escapes someone who put a lot onto them.. thoughts?“- I think that the book would say that it is a very good thing when an empath escapes a gaslighter.
Here is what you wrote on Oct 23 about that bad experience: “When I lived with my partner and my triggers were being pushed at a faster rate than I could heal, I was exhausted all the time. It lead me to calling out of work a lot, I would spend my actual time off with my partner, then I would call out when he wasn’t home so I could have some alone time… my paycheck decreased significantly and eventually I was fired“. The experience has cost you a job and an income.
Back to your yesterday post, a month and 3 weeks later, here is the word exhausting again: “With N or other people unable to be authentic, you have to spell it out for them, which is exhausting, but then, half of those times you spell it out they still do not understand, it can be so frustrating and exhausting“. N has been draining and exhausting your auras.
“I need more confidence in my instincts because wow was I manipulated, this is very validating, that there is a difference between explaining and denying. There were many times when he would accuse my intentions behind an action and I would try to explain to him my true thinking, but he would call my explanations excuses”- he denied your true thinking and in so doing, put the murky in your white aura through manipulation or dishonesty.
“I would then reply, ‘no I just want you to understand me and why I do things’ then he would say I had double standards because he was not allowed to explain (which was really denying) and I was allowed to explain (true explanations of why)“-
– he did not even think about or consider the content of what you said. What he heard (in his low vibrational/ closed crown chakra state), was that you accused him of something or that you said something he didn’t like, so his response: to deflect blame/to deny anything at all that you say that is not convenient for him to hear, not even knowing what it is that he is denying. Unlike you, he is not curious to grow, gain wisdom, and understand life and the meaning of it better“. Instead, he operates by what you termed in the next quote, emotional instincts.
“It is sad. I wish I could fix him, help him to learn to take responsibility and see others pain. See the weight of words, and emotional instincts so that he could one day experience a soulmate“- it is sad that in your efforts to help him, you’d be allowing him to destroy you.
“This is a feeling I want to express, maybe in a painting.. poem or song. The feeling of loving someone with a mask on and trying so desperately to take it off so he would see me. The feeling of feeling frozen when I suddenly see the mask, not knowing how to speak it’s language. Feeling relieved it is gone, confused how I didn’t see it for so long, sad that I am not sad.. I want to be sad, instead I feel ‘nothing with a dose of loneliness’, a good title haha.“- very well said, inspirational!
The language of the mask, of N’s mask in this case is: you (Seaturtle) are not there! Or said in other words: Hatchling, I do not want to see you or hear you: go to your cage!
“When you mentioned breaking up for the first time, I remember feeling relief“- as in the murky (confusion/ exhaustion) gone from the white light.. the spiritual energy freed from its cage, allowing for clarity and life energy?
“When I would try to guide our conversation to a more spiritual place, often his responses would be about something I was not necessarily talking about. Whereas when I talk to others they can follow me there, like M or even other acquaintances. I would instead feel sort of frozen with N as he redirected me and I was pulled out of my meditative conversational state“- like I wrote above (before reading this part), “he did not even think about or consider the content of what you said. What he heard (in his low vibrational/ closed crown chakra state), was that you accused him of something or that you said something he didn’t like, so his response: to deflect”, to redirect you.
Because of the length of this post, I will continue my reply in a new post.
anita
December 13, 2023 at 3:39 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426058anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I will reply Thurs morning, but for now: is there anything specifically you think I should evaluate about N?”- I misspoke when I suggested to reevaluate N: I didn’t mean to evaluate him further. I meant to let the re-evaluation already done sink in. The past evaluation was that he was a stand up guy and an emotionally supportive boyfriend. The re-evaluation is that he has been a dishonestly manipulative boyfriend, a gaslighter. More tomorrow.
anita
December 13, 2023 at 11:34 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426052anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
Your post today made my day: from you feeling much better all the way to this (in regard to N): “I feel like I should be more sad or upset, but I am not“. Referring to the title of your now 17-page thread, your gut is getting stronger and your fear is getting weaker. And I am thrilled to witness this happening!
“As an empath in a relationship with N, I must have taken on his stress for a long time… I wonder how much of my current thoughts are due to a lack of things to worry about… I wonder what the book would write about once an empath escapes someone who put a lot onto them.. thoughts?”-
– In think that once you see N for who he is (for who he has become during his 1st & 2nd decades of his life, before he ever met you), you can see that you are so much better off without him in your life. An empath is an easy prey for a gaslighter or any other kind of abuser. This is why children are so easily damaged by abusive parents: young children are empaths of the most sensitive kind.
I am not focused enough to reply further today, and I will reply (to your recent post and to anything you may add to it) tomorrow morning. I will end this post with saying: I am proud of you, Seaturtle!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Priyan:
“If she really did have feelings for me, she would have shown that, yes?“- I suppose she did show feelings for you when kissing you, hugging you, cuddling, etc., but she has a complexity of feelings and her most relevant and dominant feeling in regard to you is that she wants space from you, and she views the relationship negatively enough to fear that it “might hurt” her (her words).
“Should I give her the space she asked for and wait until she gets back to me with an answer or should I just walk away? I know it is going to hurt either way, but, will the pain be any less if I walk away?“-
– I think that walking away and letting her know that you are walking away from her is a better choice because it is the choice where you are exercising some control over your life. On the other hand, to “wait until she gets back to (you)” is a choice where you give her control over you.
Like you said, either way it will hurt, but better that you hurt while having some power/ control over what happens in your life than hurting while powerless, waiting and depending on what she might or might not feel, say and do at any one time in the future. Does this make sense to you?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Priyan:
You are welcome, good to read back from you although I am sad that you are feeling confused, hurt, ignored and used.
(I am adding the boldface feature to the following quotes from your post today): “We spent the time together cooking her dish for potluck, watching movies, going out and obviously having a lot of fun in the bedroom. This time I showed my affection and love for her more than usual when she was with me. We hugged, kissed and cuddled more often than usual. I should also tell you that while I was the one who initiated the hugs and cuddles, she never resisted and participated with the same enthusiasm. But she also made sure to keep reminding me that I am nothing more than a good friend with benefits. I even took her to her doctor’s appointment and when was diagnosed to be clinically depressed, I helped her look up therapists in her area”-
– she was diagnosed with clinical depression during the same week she was with you… the same week when she appeared to have a lot of much fun with you, enthusiastically hugging and kissing you?
“I asked her point blank if she was avoiding me. She replied that she has a lot going on for her (didn’t say what) and that she needs her space. She also said she wants to rethink the relationship she has with me and that she wants to cut back on how much time we spend talking/spending with each other as she is scared that might hurt both of us if/when we decide to date other people. So in essence, she went from someone who used to send me romantic texts and video call everyday to… someone who wants to take a break from me now. All this while we were having sex and she knowing that I have feelings for her. From the way she is behaving I cannot say if she has any feelings for me or is she just scared of commitment and is trying to run away from her emotions“-
-her behavior makes me think of a person on a diet, avoiding fattening foods altogether, but every once in a while, going on a binge: eating a lot of the fattening foods they otherwise avoid, then regret the binge and go back to their diet.. until the next binge. This would explain her enthusiastically hugging you, etc., spending a lot of affectionate and sexual time with you and then- going to the other extreme of no affection and no sex. Does this comparison make sense to you?
anita
December 13, 2023 at 8:12 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426041anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
You mentioned earlier that you read the book The Empath’s Survival Guide. Here is a quote from the book that reads relevant to your current situation: “What makes an empath’s overload symptoms worse? Fatigue, illness, rushing, traffic, crowds, loud environments, toxic people, low blood sugar, arguing, overwork, chemical sensitivities, too much socializing, and feeling trapped in overstimulating situations such as parties and cruises. Any combination of these conditions intensifies an empath’s overload. Therefore, keep the following in mind: stress + low blood sugar = drama and exhaustion.”
Here is another quote that reads relevant: “Empaths may unknowingly get involved with toxic partners and become anxious, depressed, or ill. They give their hearts too easily to narcissists and other unavailable people. Empaths are loving and expect others to be that way, which doesn’t always happen. They also absorb their partner’s stress and emotions, such as anger or depression, simply by interacting with them,”.
And another: ““You may also freeze around inauthentic people, which can convey aloofness — but this is clearly a protective device. Some empaths prefer socializing online to keep others at a distance, so there’s less of the tendency to absorb their discomfort and stress.”
anita
December 13, 2023 at 7:55 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426040anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
How are you feeling today? Did you see a doctor/ are you getting the best medical care possible for you? I hope that you are not having fever today and that you are feeling better. Please read the following only if you are feeling well enough:
“He must of meant some of the things he said“- everyone means some of the things they say. No one lies all the time. In cartoons and in some movies, the bad character is bad all the time. In real-life, bad characters have moments of feeling and acting on genuine affection for others, and this is why real-life is more confusing than cartoons. For example, Adolf Hitler (a bad man) felt and expressed genuine affection for his (very obedient) German Shepard Blondi.
The above is an extreme example, but it applies to everyone. Notice that he felt genuine affection to a 100% obedient dog.
Four days ago (Dec 9), I wrote this to you: “Did he sometimes feel genuine affection for you? I am sure he did. Is it love? Depends how you define love: if you define it as occasional affection/ passion, then yes, he loved you…. (but) look at the BIGGER picture, and ask: is this love?… Where there is repeated abuse, there is no love. N didn’t beat you up, but he lied and gaslighted you repeatedly, unnecessarily hurting you repeatedly. This- I say- is not love”.
On July 29 and in early October, you wrote in regard to you and N not soulmates: “I don’t think we are soulmates. But we are very in love… my partner is a stand up man, no question… we laugh of course at times, but not as much as I would have imagined, our sense of humor isn’t as in sync as I have had with other friends… I can sadly, but confidently admit, he is not currently my soulmate. I don’t see him at the depth I have seen others and definitely don’t feel seen in as deep a way as I crave…I have had the smallest glimpses but over all I don’t think our souls are mates“-
-at first, and for a long time, I took your word for it that he is a stand up man, no question, and I thought that the problem was with you having unrealistic expectations of a 100% match between minor factors such as the sense of humor between 2 individuals who are.. not the same individual. It took a lot of time for me to finally understand that he is NOT a stand up man, and that indeed, for the longest time, like you wrote in the quote above, you didn’t see him at the depth you have seen others: you didn’t see that the problem is not a difference in your sense of humor vs his, but in the difference between a gaslighter and a gaslightee. An emotional manipulator (the gaslighter/ perpetrator) and the emotionally manipulated (the gaslightee/victim) cannot possibly be soulmates.
* An emotional manipulator, a gaslighter, a person who repeatedly (although not always) lies to his significant other is NOT a stand up man.
Back to your yesterday’s post: “Shortly after reading this I made a comment to M that being sick makes me miss him taking care of me. And she snapped at me and said ‘girl you have to stop.'”-
– It is understandable that when you are sick, your thinking is less clear and your emotions take over. It is also understandable that after you tell a 3rd party (M, me) how you suffered in a relationship, then broke up.. and then express wanting to resume the relationship- this is upsetting to the 3rd party. You said that M too has Covid, this may be a factor in her snapping at you.
“It’s not even been a week I just feel depressed and sad tonight and very alone. It’s my first time being tempted to text him to just feel something, I want a hug so badly right now. I also went on a hike on Sunday and fell really bad, I split my knee open and M helped me glue it back together but I am having a hard time walking. That was the first moment I missed N, I wanted to be comforted, instead my friend was laughing that I fell haha. I just feel so alone, the COVID is making my body ache, and because of my knee I haven’t been able to go to hot yoga. I have a fever now and just wish my mom… I just feel a little lost Anita.”-
– I am sorry that you are sick and that you hurt your knee, and hope that you are feeling better and that you will feel better every day. You mentioned not being able to do hot yoga because your knee hurts, but having fever and your whole body aching also makes hot yoga a bad idea at this time. Try to not place M in the bad-person-category and then reach out to N.
You will recover from Covid and your knee will heal, and you will be able to do hot yoga again. I understand your need to be hugged… Will you place your arms around yourself? I just hugged myself and rocked my self back and forth a bit, and it felt good. Can you try this?
anita
December 12, 2023 at 7:34 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426027anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I am not focused right now but I understand enough about your state of mind. I will write more in the morning, but for now, in regard to “it’s too painful to think it was all just blah blah blah”- it was all a whole lot more than blah-blah-blah as far as what it all meant to you, it’s just that he is not like you, he is not the quality of a person that you are. There are people who APPEAR a certain way, a certain quality, but they are not what they appeared.
Don’t reach out to him. Be true to (as the saying goes in certain 12-step support groups) Principles, not Personalities: principles such as honesty, truthfulness. It’s 7:34 pm here (same as your time). Good night, Seaturtle. I’ll be online for the next 10-20 minutes.
anita
December 12, 2023 at 3:07 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426025anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I am back. I hope to read from you soon and know how you’re feeling with Covid. I wasn’t alarmed reading that you and your roommate have Covid because I keep hearing from people telling me it’s like having a cold or a light flu, people who are much older than you, so I figure it’s like a cold or a light flu for you too, is it?
“I haven’t had communication directly with N“- good, I hope it keeps being this way. No N Contact (NNC).
“but he did text my sister.. she said that she texted him asking for advice on a Christmas gift for me…and he responded ‘blah blah blah’ He then said ‘blah blah blah’ … He said: ‘Hey blah blah blah’ … ‘blah blah blah’ My sister responded religiously again with advice… I just found this out and am processing what he said. Am I correct that this is all highly emotionally manipulative?”- yes, you are correct.
Remember that he told you to not let words control you, referring at the time to the c-word that he used? Well, I say: do not let ANY of his words control you, don’t take them in and do not process them. Instead, substitute them with the above mentioned blah blah blah.
anita
December 12, 2023 at 9:57 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426016anitaParticipantAnd I hope that you and your roommate soon recover from Covid!
anita
December 12, 2023 at 9:54 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426015anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I thought about you a moment before you submitted today post while preparing my breakfast, and then I was so focused on reading your post that I forgot I was eating and had my lunch spill on the computer. As to your question: yes, this is all highly emotionally manipulative. It is his MO. Like a broken clock that tells the truth twice every 24 hours, I figure he tells the truth at a similar frequency. I will be away from the computer for a few hours and be back sometime in the afternoon.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Stacy:
You are welcome. I wish your employers guaranteed that you get a significant raise in the next fiscal year (instead of trying “to reevaluate the raise/ promotion in the next fiscal year”), or better still, that they offered you that raise right away. It may be profitable for them to pay more to a specialist they know and trust than to hire new person, and then another new person, etc., given the high turnover. Is there a way for you to arrange for a significant raise for yourself as a condition for taking the full time job?
“One of my biggest desires in a relationship is just simply being seen and made to feel like I’m special. My dad never paid attention to me and I never even really talked to him. He wasn’t mean to me, just absent. When I got his attention, it made me nervous and like I really had to perform to keep it up. But the attention was fleeting”-
– like it said in the online source I quoted from yesterday, a child learns: a chair is something you sit on, a school bus is something that takes me to school, and I am…, in your case, I am someone who does not deserve attention because I am not special. If I get any attention, I have to work hard to keep it, but no matter what, any bit of attention will disappear fast!
“That would be a dream come true for me to no longer feel so controlled by what he thinks of me. It’s such an emotional and mental cage to be in”-
-You felt special with your ex at times, for a while, a kind of special that you didn’t feel before, so your feeling of Special is tightly connected to him and what he thinks about you. It is as if he is keeping your Special in a cage, under lock and key, and he is the only one who can bring your Special back to you.
Going back to your Sept 6 original post (3 months and 6 days ago), it is easy to see that he made you feel Special right from the start: “When we met on Hinge, HE asked me what my intentions were from the get go about 2-3 days into talking as he started flirting with me. The pacing felt right and I had never had a guy actually want to go ahead and address motives, intentions with me… He expressed on many occasions how thankful he was and lucky to have me in his life“-
– notice you typed HE in capital letters. He is The One, and Only One with a key to your Special, to your sense of worth, or esteem. But you did not bask in a euphoric warmth of Specialness day in and day out, throughout the relationship: you felt that he didn’t contact you enough in-between meetings and you were stressed about it, he told you this or that and it worried you, etc. It was more like you having a taste of Special with him, but not even close to having enough of it to satisfy your three-decades-long hunger for Special.
“This relationship made me feel seen and special“, you wrote back in September, but it was not an ongoing, trustworthy kind of feeling-seen-and-special, it was only a taste of it.
On Sept 10, I wrote to you: “You’ve been giving him too much power over how you feel about yourself, power he didn’t earn and does not deserve: WHO is he to determine your worth? What did he do to deserve this power?… What did he DO to have this power to determine your worth..? He is just a guy you knew nothing about a year ago. It doesn’t really matter what he thinks, what he meant when he said this or that.. except that it matters to you because you give him power that he does not deserve”-
– He gave you a taste of Special, that’s what he did. And he is the only source of this taste that you know about. It is not only the words he uttered that gave you this taste, it is also his privileged and educated family background, and it is also about the way he delivered the words he uttered, something about his style, his mannerism, his way of looking into himself- to an extent- that touched your heart and gave you that taste of Special.
Back to your post of early this morning: “I can easily get men to find me intriguing or interesting to talk to at first, and then once they meet me in real life, or spend so many months together, they always start losing interest. It’s very difficult to not internalize this pattern of men repeatedly being so enthusiastic about me and so wanting to love and invest in me and then completely exiting the picture. It’s draining and makes me feel crazy. It’s what we’ve talked about here: this theme of inconsistency with the people closest to me.“-
– I am imagining that I am a man your age and I meet you, a very soon (in four days) 32-year-old woman, and she gives me a lot of positive attention (like that which you gave your ex). I imagine that I feel very good about it and want more of it. I feel important and I like it. But then I realize that I feel too important to her, that any word I say, any silence in between words, anything minor about what I say and do, is MAJOR to her, as in any word I say can make or break her.. I have too much power, I start feeling uncomfortable, so I withdraw.
Could this be an explanation to the pattern/ theme you mentioned above?
anita
anitaParticipant*Oopsie, I forgot to edit out the part at the end of my post.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Stacy:
I suggest that (unless you already did this) that you find out when the work health insurance kicks in: immediately or after a number of months that you work full time (?), as well what services offered (ex., how many no-cost of hospitalization days each offers) and the costs of each service, and very importantly: how many counseling sessions each offers, how frequently (once a week, once month..?) and at what cost, if any.
Also, is there any security offered to you if you take the full time job, or is it possible or likely that you will be fired at any time? It will be a shame to give up Medicaid, start the new insurance only for it to be terminated if and when fired.
anita
Hi Anita I can’t thoroughly respond as I’m at work right now on my phone, but in reference to your suggestion I stay part time and keep my Medicaid: if I get full time at this job, I will be eligible for their health insurance plan. So I will still receive some help, but it won’t be as good as what I have now. Also, I’ll be making twice as much in a month since I’ll be working more hours and I thought this may help me to start actually saving to move out of this house. I think you definitely have a good point though and it’s why the decision is so tough…
December 11, 2023 at 10:08 am in reply to: Confused on How to Deal With This Side of My Boyfriend: Am I overreating? #425990anitaParticipantDear Anonymous03:
I just re-read our communication on this thread and will now read your recent reply, reading and replying to one part before reading and replying to the next part:
“I feel I need to address what you said in your last post, for I do not agree with them and felt that what you think and said rather invalidates and dismisses my feelings and experiences. To be honest, it did infuriate me“- having re-read today the Oct 3 post you are referring to, I am not surprised that it infuriated you and I sincerely apologize: portions of my post were.. unskilled at best, accusatory.. I am embarrassed that I produced such a post.
I figure that the reasons for it are: (1) I tend to focus on one explanation to a situation and then go back and interpret all past aspects of the situation according to that one explanation, not seeing the bigger picture and considering other explanations, (2) Interestingly, being so worried that you will get angry with me.. I was expressing anger with you. I think that I was re-experiencing anger at my mother by proxy of you, accusing you of what she- my mother- was truly guilty of: I accused you of often being angry (with your boyfriend) because .. she was often angry with me. I accused you of often fighting with him, of being passive-aggressive and having no empathy for him when angry because.. my mother often fought, was aggressive and passive-aggressive, at different times, and she had no empathy for me the great majority of the time.
I never really confronted my mother in regard to these things, so.. I used you as a substitute for her and confronted you. I am sorry for having done this.. I didn’t know, wasn’t aware that I did this until this very morning.
“However, my intention is to let you know how your words have made me feel, not distress you, so I hope that does not happen. I want you to imagine me saying all of this calmly, with a soft tone. I am not yelling at you in any way“- this is very kind and considerate of you, and how emotionally intelligent it is for you to ask me to imagine you saying these things calmly, with a soft tone. I will do my best to imagine this.
(I will be selectively adding the boldface feature to the following quotes): “As I said earlier in this thread, I do not think I am ‘projecting’ my mother, and your repeatedly suggesting the same is invalidating my feelings and experiences”-
-On Sept 23, you wrote to me: “I appreciate your insights, but respectfully, I do not think my feelings towards my mom are affecting things in this case“. After you wrote this, I indeed repeatedly suggested that your feelings towards your mother were (greatly) affecting things with your boyfriend. That was disrespectful. I indeed invalidated your feelings expressed in that Sept 23 quote.
“While one’s relationships with one’s parents are influential, they are not all that influence one’s life and feelings. What you are saying about projection is reducing me down to a child with a difficult relationship with their parent. And by extension you are saying that the anger and hurt I felt at my boyfriend’s behaviour toward me was only a result of that difficult relationship, and I should not be feeling angry because it is misplaced anger I felt toward my mother”-
– I didn’t give you credit for being an intelligent and resourceful adult. I expressed an attitude that suggested that you are unaware… while all along, I was unaware that I projected my mother into you (and myself into your boyfriend).
“But I bet even a person who has a good relationship with their parents would be angry and hurt at their partner scolding them for an hour and personally attacking them with things they confided in their partner. I feel unsafe sharing things with my boyfriend because he used them against me, to hurt me, in a fight; feeling unsafe like that has everything to do with how he behaved with me (which has happened again since I last replied on this thread) and nothing to do with my mother”-
– having been invested in my projection of my mother into you, and my innocent, young self into your boyfriend, I filtered out what you shared in boldface above.
“I did not feel unsafe like this with my ex. I think anybody would feel the same way. Saying my anger toward my boyfriend is a result of life-long anger towards my mother is dismissing my experience with my boyfriend. Yes, I was scolded a lot as a child, and it affects me if someone scolds me today. But wouldn’t it affect anyone, if their partner scolded them for a long time, irrespective of their mother?”-
– Yes, it would affect anyone. Maybe the fact that you were scolded a lot as a child is one reason (one of a few perhaps, keeping the bigger picture principle in mind), that you tolerated being scolded by him.
“Like I said, while relationships with parents are influential, your character and your perception of the world is based on an interaction among lots of factors. And yet, some things are objectively uncool, like your boyfriend attacking you. I feel you are reducing me down to this one part of my life and assume a lot of things about me, which is unfair to me. For example, in one of the threads, I had mentioned my mother was a single mother, and you immediately assumed that my father had left us, when the reality is that my father died a sudden death, and he actually loved my mother and me very much. Not only did you make an assumption, your choice of words was rather harsh, attacking my mother, which I really had not appreciated. I wish you would see me as a whole person, with lot many experiences you may be unaware of, instead of just a scared and angry little girl”-
– I assumed and jumped to conclusions while under the influence of a confused projection. I remember now: at first, I projected my mother into your mother. When you defended your mother, I got angry with you, feeling that.. you were defending my mother. This is when in my mind, with no awareness, I shifted my projection of my mother into yours, to => projecting my mother into you.
On Sept 11, 2023, in this thread, I wrote to you: “We communicated first in April 2021, and then in Dec 2021- Jan 2022. You were living with your mother at the time, angry at her, fighting with her and feeling guilty about it… It was/ is a very troubled relationship… If you are still living with her,.. (are you?), I have no doubt that it affects your current relationship negatively, and that it is a part of your anger at him. Any truth to what I am pointing to?“, and you responded two days later: “No, I do not live with my mom. I’ve moved out. And to be honest, things between us are fantastic.“-
– Looking back, this is where I got angry at you for.. siding with your mother (siding with her .. against me, according to my projection), and I shifted my projection of my mother into you. Having a fantastic relationship with her meant that you took my projection (of me into you) away from me.
“About my mother, we have a difficult relationship, and now I can see why because I see her as a whole person, not just my mother. I see all that she has done for me, all that she has given me despite some very serious difficulties she faced… I can see her understand things about me and see her actively try with me. I have chosen to let go of the bitterness I had about her, because really it was serving nobody.
“I am sorry that you had such a hard time with your mother. But I think you are projecting yourself onto me because you can relate to me in that both of us have a difficult relationship with our mothers. But my life and circumstances, and my feelings and thoughts and how I react to situations, are different than yours. I wish you keep that in mind too“-
– Thank you. I understand that your feelings, thoughts and reactions are different from mine.
“About this instance, I would like to clarify that I was not riddled with self-doubt when he talked about my becoming a therapist. I was hurt that he chose to throw it at me like that… I do not in any way disagree that I can be unempathetic and rude at times, but I was also 100% willing to work on it, which is why I told him to point it out to me when I am being like that, because I am unaware of it and would very much like not to hurt him. I hope my words are not too harsh, for I have done my best to be mindful of your feelings and be honest at the same time. Hope you’re doing well..”-
– Your clarifications noted. I am well enough, thank you. Your words were not harsh and you’ve done an excellent job being mindful of my feelings and honest at the same time. I am grateful to you for offering me this valuable learning experience. It is a gift, thank you.
I will close this post with my apology to you: I regret having directed my anger at you. You were always kind to me and did not at all deserve my anger. I will be mindful- in the future- to not reply to members while under the influence of projections-gone-wild, so to speak. I will do my best to never again confront my mother by proxy of any member in these forums.
anita
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