Hi EvFran:

I am sorry for your loss, the loss of your mother last March. Lots indeed for you to deal with. I wish your life was easier and brighter. I hope it will be.

I am back here, one day at a time.

anita

<p class=”ContentPasted26″>Dear anonymous03:</p>
* I am writing this comment while being closer to the ending of writing this post after two days of working on it. This is a.. lengthy post warning, as well as letting you know that I am writing this- as I explained below- for my sake also, not just for your sake. So, please feel comfortable to read- or not read, reply- or not reply- to any or all of the following. Also, your last post on the forums was ten days ago (Sept 23), so I understand that things probably changed since you posted here.. hours after I wrote this opening comment, I am adding: I am getting emotional toward the end of this post, so I am adding an emotional trigger warning.*

I want to re-read your posts and see if I can be helpful to you, and to myself (win-win is the goal). First, whenever a tiny buddha member shares about problems in a romantic relationship, being angry at the romantic partner (similarly to a situation in real-life), I am communicating with only one side of the relationship and not with the other. It’d be a fear- based/ people-pleasing behavior on my part, if I rush to the side of the person I am communicating with, so to not “make” the person (with whom I am communicating) angry with me. Like most/ all people, I don’t want to have another person’s anger directed or misdirected at me. So, in this post, I will face this fear of mine, fear of others’ anger  (and so, I am helping myself), and be as objective and honest as I can be, and in so, hopefully, I will be helping you.
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>I realize that I have a limited amount of information, only what you shared here, which paints parts of the total picture of the relationship, not the whole picture.  My intent is not- at all- to hurt your feelings or to distress you. I do understand though that parts of what is to follow may be distressing to you (and anger you, which is my fear).</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>Also, I realize that we all project all the time, this is how we get to understand other people. The problem is not that we project, but that sometimes we project inaccurately. I will be paying attention to the possibility that some of my projections may inaccurate.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>On my part, there is some distress (like I said) in risking becoming the object of your anger. It is a fear particularly intense due to my childhood experience with a RAGE filled mother, rage that did not only spill but rained over me like a storm. So, my fear is not based on who you are, but .. on who my mother was.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>I’ll get straight to the part in your original post that made the most impression on me when I first read it (I am the one adding the boldface & italic features): “Later, in the hotel, we were in his sister’s room, and he was telling us about how his uncle had insulted his mom, and how he has never forgiven him for that. After that story was over, I said, ‘Okay now let’s get to something important, let’s talk about booking tickets for tomorrow’s tour.'”- as I read this it was clear to me that you were rude to him, and I suspected that you were rude because (as you stated) you were angry earlier in the evening. I figured that you tried to hurt his feelings in a passive-aggressive way. I mean, clearly to suggest that his perhaps decades-long  feelings (“he has never forgiven him”) are less important than booking tickets for a day tour is.. undeniably rude.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>Continued quote: “He was hurt by this because he felt that he was sharing something close and personal, and I was insensitive when I said, ‘let’s talk about something important.’ I hadn’t meant it like that at all, but I could see how that may have sounded, and realized it was hurtful… I realized my mistakes, took responsibility, and apologized. I said I did not think about it at all before saying any of those things, but I should have, and I’m sorry”-</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>- you told him  all the right things, as if taken from a conflict resolution book.. but “I hadn’t meant it like that at all” doesn’t read believable to me, given that you were angry with him shortly before this conversation took place. To clarify, I believe that you didn’t think to yourself, before saying what you said, something like:  I am going to say this to him so to hurt his feelings!  I think that your intent to hurt his feelings was instinctual, something a person often does when angry, and that on some level, you were aware of it, or could become aware of it..?</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>”We went to our room after, and it was clear he was angry and upset. When asked, he ignored me at first, but then told me about all this… He said I have been subtly insulting like that many times, but he has never said anything before. I was horrified that I had been like that, and I told him it was unknowingly done”- reads like you admitted that indeed you subtly insulted him many times, and you were horrified that you did so, or that you did it unknowingly.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>”He said that the problem is that I do not respect him. If I respected him, I would not have behaved like that. I said I was not being disrespectful purposely, and that I was sorry I disrespected him”- reads like you agreed with him that you disrespected him, adding that you didn’t intend to disrespect him.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>”I told him I’d like him to point out to me in the future if I said or did anything like that again. To which he said he wasn’t going to. He kept reiterating the same things dramatically for quite a bit, saying he could not understand how I could be like that…  how I could not have any empathy at all”- (1) he is making a good point: if you have no empathy for him on a regular or repeated basis (having empathy for him inconsistently, let’s say, not when you get angry… and you stay angry for long periods of time), that’s a big problem because without empathy, you don’t consider/ care how your words come across. (2) reads like he’s been frustrated for a long time and he feels quite hopeless.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>”He then brought my ex-boyfriend up.. He then said to me, ‘I have limits. Once those are crossed, I will f*** off. You won’t know when. You won’t know anything. There will be no discussion. Nothing. It will be over.'”- he is definitely angry, understandably angry at you because you really disrespected him, and not only once. He is fed up.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>”I was horrified that he would threaten me like that. I did not deserve such a breakup”-  he expressed to you how angry and frustrated he is with your repeated expressions of disrespect toward him. When typing the sentence I quoted here, you didn’t think about his desperation and what he deserves (which is consistent, dependable respect and empathy).</p>
* If he was a more..  emotionally skilled individual, he’d say something like: I am so frustrated and so angry about you repeatedly disrespecting me that I feel like breaking up with you.. I love you, but I am also angry I don’t know what to do about it. (Last time I was angry,  I wasn’t that skillful. I wish I was, but I wasn’t. Maybe next time).
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>”He calmed down a bit after I apologized and said that he did not mean it when he said he’d leave without a conversation. It was just anger. What got me was that he did not apologize and take responsibility”- (1) Still angry with him, you focused not on the first part (what he said that was positive), but on what he didn’t say. (2) You put too much value in apologizing-and-taking-responsibility, delivered without adequate thought or regret, kind-of, perhaps, automatically repeating what is written in a conflict resolution book and crossing it off your list (as in saying: I apologized, I said something to the effect of taking responsibility, so I am off the hook/ I am Right.. and he is Wrong, for not doing the same).</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>”In another fight a few months…  I cried like there’s no tomorrow. I just wanted to go home. He spooned me. And turned me to him and hugged me to him, saying seeing me cry breaks his heart. And he was sorry”- he reads like a good, empathetic person.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>”Finally, I calmed down a bit and told him, ‘You said I’d be a shi*** therapist.’.. he said he… was only talking about empathy. But he was sorry for saying it anyway. I did not believe him. But I said ok anyway because it was 3 in the morning. My face hurt from all the crying”- your hurt feelings are honest. I feel empathy for you for experiencing so much emotional pain. I wish you didn’t and that you wouldn’t suffer this way in the future.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>* All of this does not mean that you will be a bad psychotherapist: first, you are still studying to become one, and this very experience with your boyfriend, which you expressed in this thread, can be part of your (informal) education toward becoming a good or even an excellent therapist. You can become a better therapist for having been empathy-challenged (in regard to your boyfriend) and overcoming it, a better therapist than one who had no such challenge. Overcoming it, you can offer your future clients a valuable, personal, hands-on experience in creating enough space in your anger to allow empathy to shine through and take the lead.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>”I’ve acted ‘normal’ since then, but that night haunts me. We got back to our home towns (we’re in an LDR), and I haven’t been able to completely be okay with him. I’m a little distant”- lingering, long-lasting anger.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>”I do not feel safe sharing anything with him now because I don’t know how it will be used against me. Am I overreacting?“- seems to me that he is a decent man, that he is not responsible for most of your anger and that you are reacting to the anger within you that was there before you ever met him, anger that gets triggered.</p>
“he is really sensitive and feels attacked very easily… Sometimes when I share things with him, he acts like I’m overreacting or being too sensitive…I feel he just lacks empathy some times. And all this is draining for me”- you are both sensitive people, both having a problem with anger (it’s a problematic emotion for so many). Therefore, the two of you have to stop the WAR and sign a peace treaty: NO ATTACKS, no getting even, no lashing out. Take that Pause (see the NPARR  strategy I suggested to you in this thread)

“When he’s calmed down and vented after a fight, he does sincerely apologize for whatever I felt bad about and admits it was not cool of him to do so. He even asked me to let him know if I think he’s being abusive any time”- (1) he is a good, empathetic, conscientious person, best I can tell. (2) better not calm down after a fight, but before a fight.

“Usually after we fight, once we calm down, we are able to have an objective conversation about it, where we share what we felt. No judgments. No attacking. It’s an open space.”- it’s about (and it can be done) calming down, and when calm-enough, then have an objective conversation, no judgment, not attacking.. have that conversation before you fight, and a fight will be prevented.

“It does annoy me sometimes that he jumps straight to a break-up when we’re having a fight and have asked him that. Why he has to jump to a break-up the moment things get a little heated“- because things don’t get “a little” heated, not for him and not for you; things get heated a lot, and when that happens,  he feels cornered, powerless, and he needs a way out, a way to exert some power. Talking about/ threatening a breakup has been his way to get a sense of power/ a way out.

It shouldn’t be about how he (and you)  fighting differently.. it should be about the two of you not fighting at all. There’s a way to talk about and resolving things without fighting.

“He is actually a generous and very kind person. And he loves me very much and hurting me is the last thing he wants to do. That I know. And do not doubt one bit.”- you said it, but you doubt all of this when you get angry, don’t you?

“I agree. It feels like I am carrying hurt and resentment from past issues. And I think it seeps into current issues“-I agree.
<p class=”ContentPasted26”>In the beginning and toward the end of your original post, you wrote: “My boyfriend got a little angry and was sort of scolding me… I want to talk about all this with him.. How he didn’t have to scold me..“. In a following post: “He’d already been scolding me since over an hour”.</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>On 1-21-2021 (interesting date), you wrote in another thread: “Growing up, I did get scolded a lot, sometimes for doing things that weren’t even wrong… I was always terrified of my mother and was afraid of her scolds…  I was her emotional punchbag: She would return from work after having a bad day and immediately start scolding me for something as silly as my bag being on the couch… I would always wonder what I did wrong for her to hate me so. My therapist had recommended that I… record her scolding sessions and show her that this is not okay… I finally managed to tell her that her scolding me for the silliest reasons is not okay”-</p>
<p class=”ContentPasted26″>- it is not far fetched to think that you are re-experiencing your mother’s scoldings in the context of your relationship with your boyfriend.. inaccurately projecting her into him.</p>
You wrote to me, here on this thread: “I appreciate your insights, but respectfully, I do not think my feelings towards my mom are affecting things in this case“-

– in this case, you are dealing with a person who “is actually a generous and very kind person. And he loves me very much and hurting me is the last thing he wants to do. That I know. And do not doubt one bit“. In the previous, decades-long case (growing up with your mother),  you were dealing with a person who was not a kind and loving person.. to you. I looked for where you mentioned that your mother is, or was kind or loving to you,  and I didn’t find any such place.

“I’m not sure I want to be in a relationship where I’m scared of sharing anything with my partner because he may just use it to hurt me.”- replace “partner” with parent… and you get where the majority of your fear and anger is coming from.

Back in 1-21-21, you shared: “my heart starts beating really fast when she yells“- it’s this habit of fear and anger, the two emotions involved with the heart beating really fast, that gets triggered in the context of your relationship with your boyfriend.

“She seemed to be mad at me for something or the other“- a mother’s (a parent’s) anger, when uncontrolled, is a scary thing for a child, particularly scary because a child needs her mother to  PROTECT her. What kind of protection will a person who’s angry at you going to provide..?! I mean, whose there to protect you from her anger?!

“Even though I hate her, I love her, and I kind of not like it if someone spoke ill of her. I am protective that way… It is confusing, my emotions for her. Makes me laugh sometimes“-  the legacy she left in your life, is your heart beating really fast (easily triggered and intense, prolonged fear an anger). Naturally, you felt angry at her, but the mix of love and anger confuses you.

Like you, I feel (still) a mix of love and hate (anger) for my mother. It used to bother me a lot, when I found myself.. forgetting to be angry at her, and instead, feeling empathy and affection for her. I have learned, relatively recently, to not be disturbed by this mix of love and anger. They co-exist. When I think of her affectionately though, it is never in the context of how she treated me (good or bad). I feel empathy and affection for her only in contexts in which I am not part, like when remembering her interacting with other people. Or how she suffered in contexts not related to me.

I have no memory of a loving interaction with her, not a single one. The nature and longevity of her abuse of me, the shaming was worst, the hitting was bad.. I can’t respond in any other way to (the memory of) her touch but to cringe. It’s overwhelming to think how I was stuck in this, with her, and survived it. The emotional turmoil was intense and prolonged. So much so, that every single hour, every single day, my muscles twitch (motor and vocal tics), ever since I was 5 or 6 (I was told, I don’t remember). It’s my heart beating very fast and my muscles ..running away but having no where to go, no shelter, no refuge.

If you were my mother, reading this post, you would attack me big time, there would be figurative blood coming at me from the screen, her shaming, condemning, crushing words would be hitting me like swords, piercing the core of me. My heart is beating fast writing these words, I felt dizzy just now and had to stop. My mother is not the same as yours, but they have something in common: great anger directed at their daughters. Like yours, mine also yelled at me and gave me the cold treatment following each rage attack. Your mother was probably not as vicious as mine when it comes to SHAMING, but what she did to you was bad enough.

“While I understand how she has affected me, being mad at her doesn’t help me or us at all. I’m all she has, and vice versa too“- I hope that she is not all you have, or all that you can have. I hope that your love for her is not keeping love out of your life.

“I guess. So yeah, things have been slightly better since I told her how she affects me. She has been trying to change“- changing enough to love you? Or has she changed enough to get along with you?

This is the earth shaking realization that I had in regard to my mother: I loved her; she didn’t love me back. I would never shame her or hit her and delight in her pain (my mother had a small smile on her face when she saw me hurt). It was a one-sided love, and love for me is never coming from her. It would have been a dream come true to have her love, to experience it.. but it was not to be. You know how people go through romantic breakups, this is similar, but it’s the first heart breaking experience and it lasted for too long. It’s truly a heartbreak, and better complete the process of that mix of hate and love, with accepting that love is not coming from her. You then get to turn around and look for it elsewhere, look for it where it’s possible, in a person who is generous and very kind person… and hurting me is the last thing he wants to do.

anita

Dear Caroline:

“Do you think there’s a chance she is not in love with him? That I am wrong? I talked to my gf about it and she says she is in love big time. No way she’s not. But she only assumes it from the story I told her so it’s hard to say..”-

– this sounds like your problem with self-doubt and not trusting your feelings: self doubt in the title of your previous thread and in the first sentence of it: “I know about it for a while: my self doubt, making decisions and then doubting myself” (Sept 7, 2023). You mentioned distrusting your feelings in a previous thread: “ I have those feelings but I do not trust them I guess, not enough to act” (Sept 29, 2022).

Having communicated with you long enough, over a variety of topics, and  learning about how you think/ process information, and then reading and re-reading what you shared here about this coworker, I think that your thinking is correct: that she really is infatuated/  in-love with your male coworker.

anita

*correction: it is not simple and not straightforward.

Dear Caroline:

You are welcome, and no, it doesn’t seem silly, not since I understood what it’s about: it is not silly to feel hurt for being someone’s 2nd best, it’s a kind of hurt that I can very much relate to.

Having just read that she suggested that the three of you,  a married man with a pregnant wife at home, and two women he is not related to (Ex., daughters, mother, aunts) will be going on a sleepover in the mountains.. this is making me think.. What? I mean, it seems bizarre to suggest this.. unless she is clueless or she is/ has been so overcome with feelings of infatuations that she lost her reasoning abilities.

“I did not want to ever ask her: ‘Are you in love with him?'”- instead of asking her this Yes/ No Question, a question that confines her, you could ask, if you wanted to, an open-ended question that allows her wiggle room:  what are you feeling about him?

“Yesterday I asked her: Are you sorry that things turned out the way they did? (meaning he does not have time to meet anymore.. ). She said she knows he ‘has changed’ but she thinks it’s because he is different department and is more busy with work than we are. I don’t think she understands that it may be the fact that he is married”- seems like she prefers to not think about him being married with kids. She may be in denial about it, as in putting this “little” information aside, as it is an inconvenient truth: truth that doesn’t fit her feelings. There is a term for such lack or rational reasoning, it’s called Emotional Reasoning.

“I think that may be the reason he does not have time anymore”- good for him, he chose wisely.

“I figured I would ask her, in a funny way perhaps, or say something like ‘I know it will be only two of us’ (because 100% sure He won’t make it this time either) ‘but I hope you don’t mind and I would be enough company for you'”- I wouldn’t say that. Instead, I would do is ask her an open ended question, or a couple of open ended questions.

anita

Dear Caroline:

I asked if you want to “help her..? Warn him?”, and you said “none of these things”, so you don’t want  to help her although you are “worried about her”?

Reads like you are concerned for her emotional well being. Why not bring up your concern to her in a way that is gentle, as gentle as can be and see how she responds?

(I will be back to the computer in about 7 hours).

anita

You are welcome, Caroline. What I am reading in your last 2 of 3 sentences is courage. Think of preparing for the difficulties you expect to have, practically prepare, best you can.

anita

Dear Cat:

Good to read back from you!

“last week I got a new job. I will be a senior carer on nights, working in a dementia unit. The place where I am going to be working pays really well and it looks like Hogwarts! It actually blew me away when I went for the interview and the manager really liked me so I am looking forward to stepping into this new chapter!“-

C o N g R a T u L a T i O n S  !!! I can see you- in my mind’s eye- working in a place that looks like Hogwarts! An exciting new chapter!

“Do you live with people or alone? I am trying to visualise the environment where these messages are being received!!“- Let’s see what I can share comfortably on this public forum, at this point: I do not live alone, but not in a commune type setting either. I live on the hills, outside the city limits, about 5 miles from the nearest town, so it’s quite a forest type scenery up here, not many neighbors. Does this help at all, for your visualization?

“Thank you for soothing me on the Ed situation… I can’t explain how painful it all was, just wanting something to be fixed, and not being able to fix it“- you are welcome. You have a big heart, this is why you care so much.

“I do not want to date for a while now. I don’t do dating apps and I think these things should happen naturally. I am still strengthening my world and focusing on my goals – job, NVQ, gym, writing. I have a lot to work on“- excellent attitude, if I may say so.

“I am 30, and I do feel young!! Each day I remind myself that I am only 30, and work on grounding myself, my health and then focusing on my goals. How old are you?“- I would tell you how old I am but my fingers are refusing to type my age. (haha). I will tell you that I am old enough to feel that 30 is as young as 20 (when I turned 30, on the other hand, I perceived myself to be old).

“If I can ask: what made you feel like a bad person?“- my mother telling me how miserable she was and that it was my fault that she was miserable, detailing my alleged efforts to make her feel bad… Only a  BAD person would form the intent to make her mother suffer and then go through elaborated plans to make it happen (which is what she claimed I did, and no matter how much I tried to tell her it wasn’t true, she insisted otherwise).

“I know how that feels. There have been things that I’ve done or been through (when I used to do a lot of drugs) that sometimes I feel horrific about. But, I remind myself that the past is the past, and that making mistakes and having guilt is a human thing and there’s people in the world who have done a lot worse than I have!!“- I am sorry that you know how it feels,  but good to read that you forgive yourself for past mistakes. I wouldn’t want you to feel horrible about those mistakes or about anything: that would be unnecessary pain that will be of no benefit to you or to anyone else. It took a lot for me to forgive myself for mistakes and harms I caused other people as an older child and an adult. I am committed to becoming healthier and healthier and in so becoming  more and more willing and able to do-no-harm to others. And to myself.

“I remember at the time of writing, it felt like it needed to all come out and Tiny buddha felt like the space to do this and I released it. I would never write this stuff online now! But then, I have matured a lot over the years.. I have come to terms with everything from my childhood and in day life I am not affected by it“- good to read that you matured a lot. Indeed, your impressive maturity is evident in your writing. (Notice: Everything is the title of your thread).

“With the suffering quote – I realise now that my parents and also my sister are all older than me and all responsible adults too. I realise that they could’ve taken responsibility and reached out to me, and been concerned about me and my wellbeing. But they haven’t. and they have continued their lives as if I don’t exist, and so I have put the responsibility back onto them (especially my parents) and I have focused on myself and tried to make my life as happy as it can be“- it feels so good to read this. It inspires me to think similarly.

“In terms of you ‘losing’ being a right person for me, that isn’t the case at all. I guess life happened, I continued to grow daily and try and better myself. Started becoming someone who I would like to be friends with, and in turn attracting better people into my life (and still am). I understand that our connection is solely Tiny buddha forums based, and so I considered myself to be another person in your sea of people that you are helping! Did you feel as though you ‘lost’ me?”-

– (1) you were never another person in a sea of people, not in my mind. You are more like a beautiful, tree and life-filled island in the sea, full of life! (2) Yes, I thought that you lost respect for me. (3) Thank you so much for explaining that you were busy bettering yourself during your absence from these forums, it makes me feel good.

“It makes me happy that you are starting to believe in the numbers!! Mostly, I think the Universe does it to us, to remind us that it is there and is conscious and aware of what we are going through. At different points I have taken different paths in my life and the Universe has changed the angel number! At the moment mine are 23, 37 and still the classic 11:11. What numbers are you seeing?“- (1) I want to watch the YouTube video you mentioned, I think that it will give me some understanding of what we’re talking about here. (2) I keep seeing 11:11 and 1:11.

“Ed was – something different. It was impossible for me to have a true authentic connection with him because he is SO guarded, you can feel the defensive energy coming off him and he was so irrational due to the alcohol and drugs and was illogical, not making sense and also delusional. Sadly. I tried to help him, and even just trying to sit him down and calm him down, I wasn’t able to do. It was insane. But I really tried to highlight the problem and I appealed to his family members to help him. I just really really hope that he chooses to grow and change and face himself and his addiction.”-

– this is what I mean by saying that you have a big heart. You really, really tried to help him. You tried to reach him through his defenses, and when you weren’t able, you tried to enlist his family members to help him:  You did your Best!

anita