Dear Livia:

You sound like (read like, more accurately) a rational, reasonable person.

“For me it was just the sudden change based on all our conversations“- being blocked with no warning is a sudden and unpleasant change, and reads like it was uncalled for, meaning, you didn’t harass him and as a result, he blocked you.

It could’ve been that it was easier for him to say nothing (to block you) than it was for him to say something  (to explain himself, to admit to what was inconvenient for him to admit to), in which case, blocking you was a weak/ cowardly move on his part.

“Sometime in the future I will confront him face to face. As for now I just need to heal and move on with my life“- reads reasonable.

“I will be travelling again to the state that the guy lives at the end of the month and I will most likely be there more regularly for business. I am not ready to have any run in with him“- may strength and courage be with you in all that you do. Please post again anytime you’d like my input.

anita

Dear Marnie:

I hope that you receive a reply or two on this thread. If you would like, you are welcome to start your own thread here by going to Forums at the tope of the page, scroll down to All Forums, choose a category and go from there.

anita

Dear Rosie:

I read your post and will be able to thoroughly reply to it (and to anything you add to it) Tues morning.

anita

Dear noname:

“How to FEEL love?” (summer, July 27, 2017), “Feeling loved is such an abstract concept to me, that I’m not sure how to go about feeling it” (summer, June 21, 2018)-

– Winter, December 4, 2023: it is 12:51 pm here (adjusted to the time I am submitting this post), no sun in the sky, none is expected for the rest of the day, a day that ends with complete darkness by 5 pm. The wind is strong. I want to take a walk, my usual 3.5 miles walk, and I am afraid of mountain lions who roam this area at dusk..  it already looks like dusk in the early afternoon. It looked like dusk since morning.

What is love? – is the title of a song with the lyrics: “What is love?/ Oh baby, don’t hurt me/ Don’t hurt me no more“-

– isn’t the answer right there: don’t-hurt-me-no-more?

Only you have to figure out who is hurting whom. When you react angrily to a person (your mother) who is hurting you, it is not disrespecting her, it’s about respecting you.

It’s not about getting even, it’s about a hurt child in a hurt adult having been wronged for too long. Isn’t it time to make things right?

I stopped all contact with my mother, something I never imagined doing.. for how could I have no contact with the number ONE in my life, the person without whom I couldn’t imagine being alive?

I imagine that she is dying as I am typing this, being that she is old and probably physically inactive. How much I desired to be close to her, to be LOVED by her, to take care of her, to be taken care by her, a desire never to be fulfilled. A voice in me is saying: maybe now she will love me…  I see myself as a little girl running to her, short black hair, slender little girl body, running to her: here I am! Here I am, mother, LOVE ME!

Never to happen. How do I know? I know because a woman who had no heart for a little girl running to her will have no love for a middle aged woman running.

The little girl running is the little boy running, isn’t it? Running: here I am, mother, LOVE ME!

“How to FEEL love?…Feeling loved is such an abstract concept to me, that I’m not sure how to go about feeling it“-

– Little girl running, little boy running, meeting mid-run, middle-aged girl saying to 30+ year old boy: stop running toward her, there is no love there. Turn your face/ your eyes- elsewhere and touch love: where it is, it’s always concrete. Where love exists, it’s always in the concrete form.

The above are thoughts in a dusky Monday afternoon. No sign of the sun.. and yet, the sun will be back, maybe tomorrow.. the wonders of life!

anita

Dear Laelithia:

“Is it your opinion Anita that this separation with B has to do with my patterns rather than true/valid reasons to end the relationship?“-

– I think that your patterns (of rushing into a relationship before you have the time and state of mind to get to know the man as he is, placing him on a pedestal, and then trying and failing to rectify your troubled relationship with your mother by proxy of the man) are very strong. These patterns do not permit relationships to proceed healthily.

“Do you feel if I had properly healed from my childhood, it could have ended differently?“- yes, of course. A lot of things would be different if you were not stuck trying to rectify your relationship with your mother by proxy of this or that man.

I think that you still blame yourself for your mother disapproving of you and treating your younger sister so much better. I think that as a teenager, if not earlier, you were- understandably- very angry at your mother. Instead of your mother seeing that your anger was valid, and taking responsibility for mistreating you, she blamed you for being angry at her, adding to your guilt. Fast forward, after placing a man on a pedestal.. you get angry and bully him. When trying to understand the man’s behaviors over time, your initial idealization of him, followed by bullying him- needs to be considered.

“Before, my mistakes and patterns only affected me in the end. Now, they affect my daughter deeply as well. I feel I have caused her so much pain“-

– your regret for “Let(ting) a good guy go“, the title of your June 2020 thread, is an obsessive regret fueled by guilt, and now, on top of the usual guilt, you add your daughter to the mix, as in: I have let a good guy go, and my daughter is suffering for it.

In my short reply to you yesterday, I asked you to share more about B’s behavior, but it was a mistake, one perhaps that your therapist has been doing by answering your Did I Let a good guy go? question with: No, you did not let a good guy go, you let a bad/ Narcissistic guy go!

No such answer will make you feel better, not for long. It’s like scratching an itch, it may feel better for a second or two, but soon the itch (the obsessive question) returns.

Your therapy should not be about a man, it should be about your childhood (and onward) relationship with your mother. Such therapy will help you and your daughter. What matters for your daughter is to have a mentally/ emotionally healthy mother. It wouldn’t have done her any good to have two miserable parents in the home. One healthy, strong parent is good enough, and much more than many children have.

anita

Dear Dave:

A summary: in Jan 2023, you shared that you met your wife when you were in your early 20s, still living at home with your parents, had 2 children within 3 years of being married, and a 3rd unexpected child, eight years after the second. Back in Jan this year, at 40 or 41, with 2 pre-teens and a 3 year-old, the relationship with your wife was unhappy and you were sleeping on the sofa. She told you that the two of you are “just too different” and that she “feels trapped“. She complained that you are “lazy, sarcastic, unmotivated and show a general lack of initiative“.

On Feb 7, the two of you attended your 1st couples counseling session as “the last and final thing we can try before starting the official process of separation / divorce“. It was a good session and the morning after (you still sleeping on the sofa), she wanted to cuddle with you, and you felt somewhat optimistic. Shortly after, the two of you and the two older kids went on a short vacation to Amsterdam, and it felt very awkward between you and your wife.

On Feb 14, the two of you had your 2nd couple counseling session where your wife complained that you didn’t communicate well, that you lacked initiative, that you were “negative, defensive and letting her lead on everything“, and that you were “constantly around as opposed to having our own things going on“. You complained about the lack of intimacy, and you were “in a constant state of feeling out of control and emotional about our situation“, not knowing if “she either wants to try and work with me or make a decision to part ways” (Feb 15).

Exactly 4 months later, on June 15, you posted a 4-month update: in early March, while still living in the same house with your wife, you stayed the night at a friend’s house following having had too much to drink, and you lied to your wife about where you stayed that night. She found out, and “coupled with the fact she thinks we have nothing in common, I never tell her what I want/don’t want and effectively behave like a 4th child in the house – this is all too much for her, and she wants to end the relationship“. Following that early March incident and confrontation, the two of you were “separated and living apart amicably, meaning I can come to the house and see my children including taking my daughter to bed 3 nights a week“.

On July 3rd, you shared that the two of you were “now selling the family home“, that you very much love your wife and wanted it to work out with her, but living with her, you felt that she was your superior: “I have been pretending that I am her equal when mentally I still feel inferior and I need to dig into that“. You believed at the time that “moving into my own place and setting up a separate life… I feel I will start to  work out more who I am and what I want…  I have to discover the real me…  to be at peace with who I am and what I stand for“, and you were concerned that once you realize your true self, you “may not want to go back into the relationship“.

You were about to start individual counseling at the time and “embrace a voyage of self discovery“.

Five months and a day later, today (Dec 4), you posted another update: a couple of months or so after moving out, the two of you “enjoyed some time in the bedroom, but it felt like that’s all it was, just a physical thing“.  The separation is now six months old, and the two of you “are still in a good place in terms of communication back and forth regarding everything including the children, which really helps. Nothing has really changed on the relationship front, we are still very amicable and text most days but very surface level and transactional… I am spending Xmas eve and day at my old house and we are going to sleep separately to be there together for the kids“.

You (now 41) still feel drawn to her but you don’t believe that there is a chance to reconnect with her, and you are ready to “go out on some dates and meet someone new! At the end of the day I could continue to wait around for her to change her mind which doesn’t seem likely or I can try and get myself back out there. Or am I making a mistake? I don’t know…“.

My input: I don’t think that it is a mistake for you to give up on your marriage and start dating again, as long as your highest priority is being an attentive, involved father to your three kids. It is clear to me, from what you have shared, that in your early 20s, still living with your parents, you were not ready to get married. You needed to live apart from your parents for the first time in your life and go back then on the “voyage of self discovery” that you are aiming at 20 years later.

It is not likely that you can embrace this journey of becoming the real, independent and mature you, if your relationship with your wife resumes because she has perceived you as “a 4th child in the house” for too long, a perception that is probably deeply embedded in her mind, and it will be in your way of embracing your self discovery journey.

Make sure that as you start dating, that you are aware of the possibility of dynamics in a new relationship that may resemble the dynamics of the old.  Keep your mind focused on being a good father and on being and becoming “the real me…  to be at peace with who I am and what I stand for” (your words on July 3rd). This objective is.. definitely not a mistake. I wish you well and hope to read from you again.

anita

I forgot to edit out one quote, re-submitting with a few edits:

Dear Laelithia:

* I am about to submit this post and I feel that it will be difficult for you to read, Please read if you are calm and prepared, take a break if it gets to be too much, or choose to not continue to read. My goal is to be helpful to you.

You are very welcome and thank you for your kindness and grace.

In your February 21, 2023 post,  you shared that you’ve been very busy working, taking care of your lovely baby daughter, and working on your relationship with B, your baby’s father, barely having time to sleep. Sometime in the year before (2022), B finally secured a job but earned commission only, not a dependable income, and therefore you continued to overwork to the detriment of your health. You were having panic attacks, and reached out to your doctor who prescribed sertraline (an SSRI).

Sometime around April 2022, B changed: “B seemed to have given up on any attempt to improve our relationship and began treating me poorly. Gone was the person that was at least always polite and kind to me. Now, not only was he financially draining me, but he also was indifferent and sometimes cruel“.

You referred to B as “someone so irresponsible, reckless and immature despite being almost 10 years my senior“. Your therapist at the time “labelled B a narcissist based on his actions“, and strongly recommended that you end the relationship with him. You and B agreed to take some time apart: “I visited my parents… and B promised to finally organize and clean the house he had promised to do when we moved in about a year ago. Lo and behold, he was out with his friends at the bars and drinking rather than doing this, so I snapped. I was not very nice to him on the phone, and the next thing I knew, he had blocked me and I received a message from his sister-in-law that they (his parents included) had helped him move out“.

Your main concern at the time: “I can’t seem to get over the idea of sharing parenting and not seeing my daughter every single day. That side that worries so much about that is motivating me to try to mend things with B, perhaps finally try counselling together… Another side of me feels like a man in his 40s is unlikely to change. I just don’t know… I find myself more lost than ever…  I still hold a tiny bit of hope that maybe some time apart and some maturing and perspective on his part will maybe allow for us to be a real family“.

Nine months and nine days later, yesterday (Nov 30), you shared that following the above happenings back in February, you tried to reconcile with B following this relaliztion: “I had been too hard on him, and didn’t appreciate what he brought to the table (helping with my daughter, keeping the home tidy, and helping some with bills)“.

A few months later, in the summer of this year, you had “a complete break, and considered seriously ending my life“. The relationship with B ended permanently in the summer. Since the separation in the summer, B has not been involved in your daughter’s life, save for a few visits and minimal financial contributions.

(I will be adding the boldface feature selectively to the following quote from yesterday, and to quotes I will bring back from the past): “I still find myself incredibly saddened by the loss of the nuclear family I wanted so badly, as well as the shame I feel of not being able to have provided that for my daughter, and as a therapist myself, how that looks externally. I wanted so badly to have that picture perfect life, but I feel I could not manage it. It plagues me still in wondering if I had been nicer to B, more understanding and nurturing if this still would have been the case… I hope I will feel differently in the future, that I will feel it was right for my daughter and I, or at the very least it wasn’t my fault“ (Dec 1, 2023).

The first day we communicated, Laelithia, was on May 9, 2017. On May 19, 2017, you shared in regard to your parents when you were growing up: “I longed so deeply to be seen by them, to be heard, to hear loving words of affirmation. However.. I don’t think they had the ability to do so for me… I tried so hard to get her (your mother’s) attention, I would clean the house as a child during the nights to surprise her, I would work so hard at school, I would try to engage with her. But she was emotionally aloof”.

On January 11, 2019, you wrote: “I felt Wrong as a child, a problem, a burden. I tried very hard in my younger years to rectify this with my mother by helping her with chores, caring for my siblings, anything I could do to make her happy. But after several years of realizing this wasn’t working, I became an extremely angry and sad teenager, and I suppose in many ways, emotionally I still am that angry and sad girl“.

On January 14, 2019, you wrote about your mother: “She would often shake her head or sigh at me, while simultaneously being so cheerful and encouraging to my younger sister. She often identified being similar to my younger sister when she was younger, and told me I was more like the girls that bullied her in school. To this day I’m not sure why she told me that, as I have never been a bully“.

I don’t have the date for the following quote (I took it from one of my replies to you), in regard to your mother: “I remember feeling like I was a trouble maker to her, always needing more of her attention and getting upset with her over things and feeling hurt that she didn’t console me after an argument“.

In your relationships with men, like in your relationship with your mother as a child or a teenager, you longed so deeply to be seen by the man, to be heard… to get the man’s attention.. try to engage with the man… to rectify this with the man by helping him. But after…  this wasn’t working, you became an extremely angry and sad woman, and you became a trouble maker to the man, always needing more of his attention and getting upset with him over things and feeling hurt that he didn’t console me after an argument, having become a bully within the relationship.

This is how it looked in the relationships:

Jan 22, 2019: “When it comes to this new partner, my regret is tied completely to horrible behaviours I engaged in knowing better. Specifically, venting to him about my past, lamenting about it, and not respecting his wishes to stop talking about it with him“.

Jan 23, 2019: “I have talked more with my partner, and I am devastated by what he shared with me. He is so angry and hurt over me constantly talking about my past with him (especially exes and what was done to me), not giving him enough space or time to do the things he wants in his life, and for saying hurtful things when I felt he was rejecting or abandoning me. He said he wants space, that he wants to be on his own”.

May 19, 2019: “I met a man online… we did have a few silly arguments (usually after having too much to drink). Anyway, when I got back home, I noticed his contact was far less than before. I pointed this out, and before I knew it, my perfect man was saying he wasn’t sure if he was ready for a relationship after all. This after he had been the one pushing for things to move so quickly”.

August 3, 2020: “I met someone.. he was kind, assertive, generous… He told me how he had ‘done the math’ and how we had a great connection and our future goals aligned… I, unfortunately, uninvited him from meeting my brother and became short and cold to him. As if that wasn’t bad enough, I proceeded to have too much to drink that night and ended up sending some really odd texts that I now regret. He then told me he had a date scheduled the next day, and I really lost it… I felt bad about this in the morning, so I said ‘sorry.. When I asked if he was still planning on getting my bike today, he said ‘I’m sorry not after our last interactions.. I was hoping for some space…He said he was worried about a few comments I made and was bothered  by my mixed signals”.

February 21 & Dec 1, 2023: “B promised to finally organize and clean the house he had promised to do when we moved in about a year ago. Lo and behold, he was out with his friends at the bars and drinking rather than doing this, so I snapped. I was not very nice to him on the phone, and the next thing I knew, he had blocked me and I received a message from his sister-in-law that they (his parents included) had helped him move out… I had been too hard on him, and didn’t appreciate what he brought to the table (helping with my daughter, keeping the home tidy, and helping some with bills)”.

You have been a victim to a cold, unloving mother and you tried hard to get her positive attention. Seems to me that you’ve been repeating (as often is the case) your relationship with your mother in the context of your romantic relationships, including in the one with B. Not that any of the men was perfect or close to perfect, but it is your part in the relationships that follows a pattern: quickly getting emotionally attached and placing the man on a pedestal, and then.. trying hard to be heard and adequately attended to (to rectify your childhood experience with your mother), and motivated by hurt, you get aggressive and bully them.

Does this read true to you?

anita