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Peter
ParticipantI do not know anyone who has not struggled with coming to terms with Cognitive dissonance/distortions at some time in their life.
Particularly during the transition from one stage of life to another. During these transitions what we were taught, how ‘life should be’ comes in into conflict with our experiences. In many cases we will work very hard to deny that any dissonance exists and admitting any dissonance threatens our sense of identity and belonging to our community. (Equals sadness, depression, existential angst) As Socrates suggests coming to terms with such dissonance and distortions require the life long purist to “Know Thy-Self”
For me the study of how the stories we tell ourselves influence our experiences has been a great help. How much do the stories we tell ourselves create our experiences and how much do our experiences create our stories? Its always a bit of both I think, so its important that we become conscious of when which is happening and in this way, we become the master of our stories.
A book I found that help a great deal with this idea of mastering our stories was ‘Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes are High‘ by Kerry Patterson
You might be asking yourself how a book about communication could help with CMT to which I would answer that Conversation is not just about how we talk to others but also how we talk to ourselves. Becoming the master of how you speak with yourself and you are well on the way to mastering your stories and recognising any dissonance before they take you for a ride.
Another exercise that I found helpful with CMT is becoming aware of the most common cognitive distortions. In this way when I hear myself telling a story I am better able to identity any distortions I may be creating. This creates a space to where I can respond to a experience vice react.
15 common cognitive distortions
- Filtering. We take the negative details and magnify them while filtering out all positive aspects of a situation. For instance, a person may pick out a single, unpleasant detail and dwell on it exclusively so that their vision of reality becomes darkened or distorted.
- Polarized Thinking (or “Black and White” Thinking). In polarized thinking, things are either “black-or-white.” We have to be perfect or we’re a failure — there is no middle ground. You place people or situations in “either/or” categories, with no shades of gray or allowing for the complexity of most people and situations. If your performance falls short of perfect, you see yourself as a total failure.
- Overgeneralization. In this cognitive distortion, we come to a general conclusion based on a single incident or a single piece of evidence. If something bad happens only once, we expect it to happen over and over again. A person may see a single, unpleasant event as part of a never-ending pattern of defeat.
- Jumping to Conclusions. Without individuals saying so, we know what they are feeling and why they act the way they do. In particular, we are able to determine how people are feeling toward us.
- Catastrophizing. We expect disaster to strike, no matter what. This is also referred to as “magnifying or minimizing.” We hear about a problem and use what if questions (e.g., “What if tragedy strikes?” “What if it happens to me?”). With practice, you can learn to answer each of these cognitive distortions.
- Personalization. Personalization is a distortion where a person believes that everything others do or say is some kind of direct, personal reaction to the person. We also compare ourselves to others trying to determine who is smarter, better looking, etc.
- Control Fallacies. If we feel externally controlled, we see ourselves as helpless a victim of fate. For example, “I can’t help it if the quality of the work is poor, my boss demanded I work overtime on it.” The fallacy of internal control has us assuming responsibility for the pain and happiness of everyone around us. For example, “Why aren’t you happy? Is it because of something I did?”
- Fallacy of Fairness. We feel resentful because we think we know what is fair, but other people won’t agree with us. As our parents tell us when we’re growing up and something doesn’t go our way, “Life isn’t always fair.” People who go through life applying a measuring ruler against every situation judging its “fairness” will often feel badly and negative because of it. Because life isn’t “fair” — things will not always work out in your favor, even when you think they should.
- Blaming. We hold other people responsible for our pain, or take the other track and blame ourselves for every problem. For example, “Stop making me feel bad about myself!” Nobody can “make” us feel any particular way — only we have control over our own emotions and emotional reactions.
- Shoulds. We have a list of ironclad rules about how others and we should behave. People who break the rules make us angry, and we feel guilty when we violate these rules. A person may often believe they are trying to motivate themselves with shoulds and shouldn’ts, as if they have to be punished before they can do anything. For example, “I really should exercise. I shouldn’t be so lazy.” Musts and oughts are also offenders. The emotional consequence is guilt. When a person directs should statements toward others, they often feel anger, frustration and resentment.
- Emotional Reasoning. We believe that what we feel must be true automatically. If we feel stupid and boring, then we must be stupid and boring. You assume that your unhealthy emotions reflect he way things really are — “I feel it, therefore it must be true.”
- Fallacy of Change. We expect that other people will change to suit us if we just pressure or cajole them enough. We need to change people because our hopes for happiness seem to depend entirely on them.
- Global Labeling. We generalize one or two qualities into a negative global judgment. These are extreme forms of generalizing, and are also referred to as “labeling” and “mislabeling.” Instead of describing an error in context of a specific situation, a person will attach an unhealthy label to themselves.
- Always Being Right. We are continually on trial to prove that our opinions and actions are correct. Being wrong is unthinkable and we will go to any length to demonstrate our rightness. For example, “I don’t care how badly arguing with me makes you feel, I’m going to win this argument no matter what because I’m right.” Being right often is more important than the feelings of others around a person who engages in this cognitive distortion, even loved ones.
- Heaven’s Reward Fallacy. We expect our sacrifice and self-denial to pay off, as if someone is keeping score. We feel bitter when the reward doesn’t come.
Peter
ParticipantHi Tonorli
“everyone says love and being loved in return is the best thing” And yet few will agree on what this thing we call Love is.
We say thing like. “Love is all we need” and we sense there is a truth to the statement yet because we define love so narrowly (and our expectations of Love) we worry it might be a lie, or worse that its truth might not be meant for us, perhaps because something is “wrong” with us.
After the end of a loving relationship who have not asked themselves “Whats love got to do with it”…. Everything and Nothing?
Having found myself asking similar questions I found the following book helpful. ‘How to Be an Adult in Relationships: The Five Keys to Mindful Loving’ by David Richo
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August 12, 2018 at 2:56 pm in reply to: Searching For Stillness, Uninvolved parents and Now I am a lost adult #221251Peter
ParticipantHi Zita
“There is a lot of chaos inside me and I keep searching for that stillness”
If you have ever read anything about chaos theory you might see that there is order in chaos. If you can learn to breathe through this paradox you may find that within chaos there is also stillness.
Stillness is a paradox. Even when we are still we are moving at amazing speeds through the universes. From which point then can we measure that we are still? The word Seeking is a verb, life is karma (action) cause and affect / movement. As long as someone is seeking stillness as separate from movement it will never be found.
It is when your mind can be calm within movement, the center of the hub of the spinning wheel, that you will discover what you seek and what you seek you already possess.
Here is a riddle for you
“At the still point of the turning world. Neither flesh nor fleshless;
Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,
But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity,
Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards,
Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point,
There would be no dance, and there is only the dance.” – TS ElliotPeter
ParticipantThe great thing about having no-thing is that it contains all things.
“Always we begin again.” – St Benedict
The realty of each breath is that it is a moment of both a death and rebirth. With each breath we empty ourselves and start again.
“The Rule teaches that if we take control of our lives, if we are intentional and careful in how we spend the hours of each irreplaceable day, if we discipline ourselves to live in a balanced and thankful way, we will create from our experiences, whatever they may be, the best possible life. ” John McQuiston – Always We Begin Again
The unexpected is always upon us. And of all the gifts arrayed before me, this one thought at this moment in my life is the most precious. And so, we begin again. – Feast of Love
Peter
ParticipantHi Nirvair
I have a friend that is certain that she can remember many past lives and like many who have the same experience spends a lot of time looking for ways to prove the experiences are “real”. (begs the question what makes a experience real? )
My opinion is that such searches to prove and explain the experiences are interesting but often misses the opportunity to learn something about ourselves from them.
A question I might ask myself is what blue eyes might mean to me. Blue is often symbol of spirituality and enlightenment but it is also a symbol for cold. Can “enlightenment” also leave one feeling cold?
I like what the bible has to say about such experiences – “But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart” There is a time to share such experiences but also a time to treasure them up. Words have a bad habit of diminishing a experiences, especially the words of others who are more then willing to tell you what qualifies as a real experience.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 1 month ago by
Peter.
August 2, 2018 at 6:59 pm in reply to: Can this relationship still work after NC for a while? #220105Peter
ParticipantHi Gracie
My opinion, for what its worth and having been that guy, would be to say that I don’t think its worth trying to reach out or playing the friend game when you know you want more.
There is some truth to the saying “If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, its yours forever. If it doesn’t, then it was never meant to be”. Leave the ball stay in this guys hands. He made the choice to end the relationship which I think you should honor. If you attempt to re-engage there will be the possibly he will dig in or use the experience (probably unconsciously) to keep you off balance and or create a co-dependent relationship.
There is the possibility that the two of you are attracted to each other in the hopes of healing each other. However, that requires a great deal of self knowledge from both sides, as well as a agreement to do the work.
If he does reach out to you be careful that you understand your boundaries and keep them, or you will find yourself in the same situation again and again
I recommend the book ‘How to be an Adult in Relationships’ if you want to challenge your ideas about your expectations of relationship.
When you are dating — unsuccessfully — it can feel like you’re repeating the same mistakes over and over again.
Humans are creatures of habit, and out of a subconscious desire to re-live and correct the issues from our past, we may seek out the same sort of partners and find ourselves in a destructive cycle.
Some people may do this because they have an unhealthy attachment style, which is the way they form bonds and connect to others.
One style is called “avoidant attachment,” according to psychotherapist Allison Abrams, our experiences in childhood shape our style of attachment, which then becomes the template for how we behave in future relationships.
“Insecure attachment styles, such as avoidant attachment, usually stem from some sort of early trauma,” she said. “When our needs aren’t met consistently by our primary caregivers, we form the belief that they won’t be met by any significant other, [and] that we can’t ever rely on others.”
Essentially, it is a defense mechanism, and people with avoidant attachment style may completely avoid relationships altogether, or keep anyone new they meet at a distance. They may sabotage their blossoming romances out of nowhere, because they are scared their new partner will leave them — so they get in there first.
“This is an unconscious attempt to make sure that they never again go through anything like they went through with their original caregiver,” Abrams said. “The irony is that by engaging in these defenses that we’ve learned we are actually recreating the very thing we were trying to avoid.”
Avoidant people find faults in anyone
Rather than letting a relationship grow naturally, an avoidant person tends to dwell on areas they are unsatisfied with. While people with healthy attachment styles are able to compromise with their partners and focus on the positives, avoidant people cannot. They zero in on minor flaws and imagine how they were happier being single, or how they might be better off finding someone else.
And they don’t just harm themselves. They often attract people with an anxious attachment style, who give up all their own needs to please and accommodate their partner.Anxiously attached people become incredibly unhappy and worried about being too much or too little for the person they are dating, and take everything incredibly personally.
August 2, 2018 at 1:26 pm in reply to: Can this relationship still work after NC for a while? #220079Peter
ParticipantSounds to me like the guy has issues with the idea of love and relationship in general.
For whatever reasons he’s not ready or willing to to work on a relationship. This is about him not you, and better you know now before spending anymore time on it. You can’t fix him. If you did get back together, my bet is that it will become one of those on again, off again, on again, off again…. relationships.Peter
ParticipantHi Kaledoscope: (Great name – mirrors and color whose reflections produce changing patterns… we are more then sum of our parts, more wondrous then we imagine ourselves to be. Note mirroring plays a important part in counselling… )
Counselling can become complex, what with transference and counter transference. The reality is therapists are human with there own stuff to work out. A good therapist will know when their stuff is getting in the way of “seeing” there clients. Actually, this noticing can provide clues to the therapist about what the client needs to address.
Anyway, its inevitable in a long-term counselling relationship for there to be a fall out. More often then not such “fallouts” are needed as part of the healing process. Life demands growth and sometimes counselling can become a to safe place that keeps us the same. When this happens, Life will challenge the relationship. In this case the consoling relationship is providing you with an opportunity to deal with your fear of confrontation. Imagine being fully honest with your therapist and telling him the concerns that you have mention in your post? How would you feel about yourself if you were able to talk about your concerns without fear of what the reply might be? There is nothing in what you said that is embarrassing or are even that confrontational for a professional.
As in all relationships there is always a desire of growth, for all involved, however there is also a desire that things stay the same. Noticing when the confrontation is present is a opportunity that can lead to a ‘awakening’
Peter
ParticipantAll of the methods mentioned in the rant can be helpful, however if the aim is enlightenment your likely to miss the target. Or not… as such practice tend to lead to the realisation that what your seeking you all ready have and so don’t need the practice. There is a zen story I like.
A senior monk and a junior monk were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The young woman asked if they could help her cross to the other side.
The two monks glanced at one another because they had taken vows not to touch a woman.
Then, without a word, the older monk picked up the woman, carried her across the river, placed her gently on the other side, and carried on his journey.
The younger monk couldn’t believe what had just happened. After rejoining his companion, he was speechless, and an hour passed without a word between them.
Two more hours passed, then three, finally the younger monk could contain himself any longer, and blurted out “As monks, we are not permitted a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?”
The older monk looked at him and replied, “Brother, I set her down on the other side of the river, why are you still carrying her?”
There are variations on the story. In one the student builds a raft to cross the river. Once across the master asks the student if, because the raft was useful, if he should to carry the raft with on his back as he continues the journey.
I think the lesson is that a student must always be prepared to let go of any teaching or practice once it has served its purpose. It is very easy to mistake the raft for the journey.
Peter
ParticipantThat in order to experience ‘enlightenment’ you first have to stop giving a darn about it.
A paradox of Enlightenment -Gabriel Gonsalves –
Multitudes of people follow some kind of spiritual path, but very few succeed in realizing the ultimate truth and become ‘enlightened’.
Why is that?
When you feel angry, confused, vulnerable and upset, you go to a doctor or psychiatrist, a priest, a therapist, a coach, a healer, a specialist, a social worker, a palm reader, or an astrologer.
You take up religion, are born again, get into philosophy, become an agnostic, an atheist, take the Insight or Landmark Seminars, tap your forehead with EFT.
You get all your chakras balanced, your DNA activated, try some reflexology, some kinesiology, go for ear acupuncture, do iridology, hot stone therapy, get healed with lights, sounds, and crystal bowls.
You meditate, chant mantras, drink green tea. Try magic mushrooms and psychedelics. Get Reiki, try the Pentecostals, do the Rosary, breathe in fire, speak in tongues, pray, implore, declare and beseech.
You get centered, heart-centered, learn NLP, try actualizations, visualizations, feelingizations, study psychology, do a past life regression, join a Jungian or dream interpretation group.
You see your homeopath, chiropractor, naturopath. Or try transactional analysis, discover your Enneagram or Myers-Briggs type, get your meridians balanced, join a Conscious Something group.
You take antidepressants, get tranquilizers, get some hormone shots, flu shots, try tissue salts, have your minerals analyzed and balanced. Take Rescue Remedy. Learn astral projection and listen to messages from the Galactic Federation.
You become a vegetarian. Give up sugar. Eat only cabbage. Try macrobiotics, go organic, go raw, non-dairy, eat no GMO’s. Try fasting and intermittent fasting. Take amino acids and anti-acids. Go to health spas. Cook with exotic ingredients. Eat fermented foods. Take brain enzymes, Bach flower remedies, eat only grapefruit.
You meet with Native American medicine men, do a sweat lodge. Connect with the Pleiades. Go on a vision quest. Find your Animal Guide or Spirit Guide and build them an altar. You invoke the spirit of your ancestors, the four directions, the spirits of the wild, feed elementals you can’t see.
You go to the Amazon jungle and visit a shaman. Go on a retreat. Sing tribal chants. Relive past lives. Visit the underworld and retrieve your soul. Scream primal screams. Take medicine plants, ayahuasca, peyote, San Pedro, Santa Maria, iboga. Hold hands in a circle, sing, drum, dance and get high.
You go to India. Try to find your soulmate, eat, pray, and love. Find a new guru. Take off your clothes. Get blessed by Baba Somebody. Swim in the Ganges naked. Stare at the sun, howl at the moon. Shave your head. Eat with your fingers, get really messy, take cold showers. Sing Kirtan songs with people you’ve never met.
You try hypnotic regression. Time-line therapy. Do psychodrama. Punch pillows. Write letters to your parents and to your future self. Join a marriage encounter group, discover your Imago. Go to Unity. Go to Agape. Go to Bible study groups. Write affirmations and stick them to a mirror. Make a vision board.
You get re-birthed. Read Angel Cards. Do the Tarot cards. Get into the occult. Study magic. Work with a kahuna. Join a mystery school. Learn a secret handshake. Try color therapy, swim with the dolphins, listen to subliminal and paraliminal tapes. Study Zen and cast the I-Ching.
You take a shamanic journey. Walk El Camino de Santiago. Go on pilgrimage. Visit Mecca. Walk barefoot. Walk on your hands and knees. Hug a tree. Sit on a mountain, watch the sunrise and sunset…
I’m so tired.
The paradox of Enlightenment
That in order to experience ‘enlightenment’ you first have to stop giving a darn about it, and instead get shamelessly real and connected to what makes you fully human and connected to the humanity in others. All this, so that you can eventually surrender it and rise into the Lightness of your Divine being.
In other words, the path towards the light requires you to first love and embrace ALL of your humanity – this means your light, your darkness as well as your shadows – BEFORE you can even attempt to become an ‘enlightened’ being. – ‘Enlightenment’ is an inside-job. Gonsalves
Thought that was kind of funny. I’m not sure what this Enlightenment is. I suspect its one of those things that if you think you have it, you don’t.
Peter
ParticipantThanks Neville
Of course, my “Spiritual Team” selected the theme of “thinking to much” for my soul to live out. So I’m fulfilling my purpose. ?
“Open your mind and your life and be like an empty bucket waiting for the gap between your thoughts to fill you with infinite wisdom” I like that, and to fulfill my purpose I must ask, how thought, action and wisdom relate to each other. If I think about what is filling the bucket do I change the substance of what is in the bucket, yet if I do not think about it and make it conscious what is learned, what is wisdom?
The first meaning of emptiness is called “emptiness of essence,” which means that phenomena [that we experience] have no inherent nature by themselves.” The second is called “emptiness in the context of Buddha Nature,” which sees emptiness as endowed with qualities of awakened mind like wisdom, bliss, compassion, clarity, and courage. Ultimate reality is the union of both emptinesses – Ari
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This reply was modified 7 years, 1 month ago by
Peter.
Peter
ParticipantForgiveness is an Art which is more for the person hurt then the person that has perpetrated the hurt.
I like what Clarissa Pinkola Estes (Women Who Run With the Wolves) had to say about their being Four Stages of Forgiveness
Four Stages of Forgiveness
- To forego—to leave it alone
- To forebear—to abstain from punishing/vengeance
- To forget—to aver from memory, to refuse to dwell
- To forgive—to abandon the debt
Note. Many people hold on to hurt because they feel that as long as they do the one that hurt them will hurt and be accountable. It is important to remember that forgiveness does not mean that the person that hurt us is no longer accountable. Holding someone accountable is not the same as punishing or vengeance or even justice. Accountability is an attribute of Love. If you steal from me, I can forgive you – detach my sense of self from the experience – while holding you Accountable by taking back my key.
http://www.stlcw.com/Handouts/Four_Stages_of_Forgiveness.pdf
Peter
ParticipantI’ve often wondered… what if ones “Soul Contract” theme chosen was to struggle with the question of meaning and purpose. In such a case a person would be fulfilling their purpose by not knowing their purpose.
With regards to the idea of Soul Contract on the one hand I can see the benefit of believing that I choose to experience the theme of suffering/depression in this life time. (the exercise of free will happening before consciousness) What can I do I chose it might as well go all in and experience it fully without worrying about it? Ah but the theme includes the experience of wanting to overcome the depression as that’s part of the experience of suffering. There is no way out. No free will, all the choices made before consciousness.
The image that comes to mind is a soul voyeur going on vacation in an experience simulator, the avatar a play thing of the soul. Perhaps life in the spirit realm is boring and the soul longs to feel something, so anything it feels pain or joy is good but I find no comfort in that.
Peter
ParticipantEssentially as you implied the answer to such questions is always “you”.
You are the answer to the question of Purpose. As such every experience is Purpose and Meaning, even the experience of questioning and seeking purpose.
“We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.” – T. S. Eliot We seek for purpose and meaning out there somewhere, over the rainbow… never noticing that we are it… until we do
Peter
ParticipantDo you have any thoughts as to what is behind your depression? Is it mostly brain chemistry, existential angst, traumatic past event, a little of everything.?
For the longest time I was depressed about being depressed. Depression is like that, it likes to work its way in like a cancer and reproduce it self.
In the words of Sun Tzu “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
That said I don’t like looking at depression as an enemy as that tends to set up resistance and depression is very good a using resistance and turning it against ourselves. We are after all resisting ourselves. As Walk Helly said “We have met the enemy and he is us”. You don’t want to become your own enemy and work against yourself… which if your depressed you probably are. Still the advice holds true, if you know your self and know your depression you need not fear.
Today I might say I have a relationship with depression. There is, I think, a time for all things even depression however I no longer fear it and not fearing it know its time will pass.
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