@Shelbyville
It’s all in harnessing your emotions and having more control of your mind. Not easy but I’m trying, I’m the only one with control to change the way I think. For example, before I was feeling what’s the point in living, no one will love me, so I took to the bottle to numb that pain. Now I’m thinking I’m gifted with life, it is up to me to love myself, I need to be brave and face my emotions, the fog is lifting the more I rebel against my critical negative voice, thinking more clearly and improving. Fingers crossed.

Completely understand not feeling as much which is why I asked, my relationship history is if I’m at a party my chemical reaction will always instinctively attract me to unavailable “bad boys”, the one’s who I feel an intense attraction to physically. I’ve done that too many times, all ended badly. The primal sexual attraction you sometimes feel for certain people can be misleading. Did you not feel enough sexual attraction with your friend?  It may help you piece together the way you react and break patterns that are leading to trouble and choosing people who short term are great but long term suck.

Actually, how have you stayed friends after dating? Have you seen When Harry met Sally? Be careful, men are not like women. Us women only stay friends to keep you as a fallback or because we care enough but men are always looking for the opportunity to swoop in he may really want you, either for a sexual encounter or you are his fallback too, be wary that’s why he is being a better friend now. What has he said about your new situation?

So you mentioned your gut for not pursuing your friend. What is your gut saying about the new guy? You mentioned imagined potential which is why Tim and I said earlier be wary of the initial phase where infatuation causes you to create ideals in your head and when the fireworks and chemicals settle down the real version comes to the fore. I really think there is a reason you go for people who are lukewarm towards you over people who are fully available. Look into it with your therapist.

So you said you are unsure why he has changed, It could be one of two things;

1) Game player – men and women both do this to control, manipulate, or gain power. People can lie a lot in the initial chase to get what they want especially if they are players and not being authentic. Also, it may be with the aim to get you into bed. An authentic person will pretty much remain consistent. You see this hot/cold act by him could be game playing.
2) He had a genuine interest in the courting phase based on sexual attraction but over time it has dwindled or he is now bored and just not that into you. The more he learns the less into you he is. It happens. Just not for you.

You’ve only ever had one relationship – your ex? Since then you haven’t been alone, have you? Wow! Let me know if you want to hear my expansion on that.

If you really can’t walk away even though you are smart enough to know you really do deserve someone who wants to give you attention and time. This person is controlling the pace and making it clear it is CASUAL. If you want the imagined potential, LTR you are setting yourself up for major heartbreak the longer you stay. The chances of this becoming more are slim. This person who seemingly declared LTR intentions has done a U-turn, he will keep you around for as long as he needs, giving you just enough but not all. If he really was wowed he would be moving towards spending more time, more effort, etc. So he might be bored, might be using you as a backup option, might be a selfish and weak person and scared to break up knowing you have shown intent and doesn’t want to end things, wants you to do that so he can save face and not be the bad guy. Try sending a flirty text to see if he bites if not then he really has lost all interest and is keeping you around for something else.

Or the mature thing would be to communicate and just ask directly, say look I’m looking for a long term relationship with someone, I thought we had potential, we have spent enough time in each other’s company to decide whether we should give it a real go. Where is your head at? along those lines, if he insists on keeping it casual then there’s your answer.

@Tim I didn’t have enough time on my break to write a reply to do you justice also. I thought I’d address @Shelbyville first( I hope the day has got lighter Shelby, I’m very worried for you. Seeing you in pain and unable to help much is hard. I hope @Kkasxo see’s as she is probably better than me) as she is in a spiral.

Tim, Ruperts love for you was pure, very few humans can offer that as lovers, very few experience it in any form some angels choose fur instead of wings. So hold onto those memories he will never be replaced but live on in spirit. I know no one can truly understand why dogs are called “man’s best friend” until they have experienced the loss of one. I’m here ro listen or help in anyway I can. You have always been so giving to me and I’d hope to repay you some day.

I will try my best by Shelby and Lucie or anyone else who needs help. I have been inspired by you and I hope that was not a goodbye or our last correspondence. This past week or two I feel the tide turning and I’m growing. I’ll have a sober wake in honour of Rupert. OJs and no bottle. Take care Tim, thinking of you and strongly believe you have the grit to get through this testing time. Sending you a virtual hug too. Thank you for everything so far. I’ll miss you x

Aww, @Shelbyville I was so upset for you after your last message so it is great to hear back from you.  Lucie is right, you are so special and give so much time and attention you very much deserve that.  I can’t say if you are catastrophizing because your friends may know the situation better than me. However, my point of view is based on what you have conveyed above.

I still believe until you have addressed some of the neediness and self-worth going into a new relationship is probably unwise and may even cause more damage to you. I mean another toxic cycle will reinforce MARTHA – the negative inner critic.

What worries me is although he is still there and didn’t end it, your intuitiveness and gut was right, so Tim’s POV had substance in this scenario may be the neediness and insecurities is not self-sabotage but someone making you genuinely feel that way because they are not willing to meet your needs/ the right person for you.

You had picked up that the dynamic had changed and yet you are choosing to ignore it further. It flagged up his lack of action towards a more meaningful relationship. It is strange considering how he was all about being in a serious relationship and now the opportunity has presented itself he is refusing to commit. I don’t understand why your moving cities is such a big deal how does it affect his life plans?

RIGHT NOW he is clearly saying YOU are not someone who has made him want to commit. People who initially conveyed they wanted a relationship but then refuse to commit are those who are unavailable i.e not moved on from ex or treating you as a backup plan so if the ex doesn’t return/they don’t get better you will be strung along with breadcrumbs to keep you hooked for as long as they need. Or they are not into you and just enjoy the fun, attention, an ego boost.

You are not BF&GF so effectively you are FWBs – this person is enjoying all the perks of a relationship, the warm body on his own terms, and not wanting to commit as he gets it all without the commitment. I personally do not do casual for this reason, I can not sleep with someone without them making me exclusive. Each to their own though.

You said he initially made you feel special, people who are after fun and attention are notorious for love bombing in the initial period. What worries me now is now that you have been intimate he is consistently not making you feel special. Considering how early it is I would be concerned. Someone who really thinks you are special will continue to show that in their action; make time, give you attention, do special things for you, etc.

I find it alarming that you want to discuss your feelings or voice your concerns are met by disdain and he is actually saying I can change my mind and want fun! Now is this because he was after a casual affair all along and lied to you or is it because he feels you are being needy so creating the distance? Would you say you were pushy with him or did you feel unheard? Only you can honestly judge that. Either way, all these signs are screaming you two are already somewhat incompatible.

• Your communication styles differ i.e. stonewalling
• He doesn’t have the apt/sensitivity to deal with your concerns in an understanding way – you may wish to ignore this now but your needs will seep out at some point but I think they are already
• He is not giving you time and attention that you clearly need and desire
• When you have to ask for a call – that is worrying. You shouldn’t feel you can not call someone you want a committed relationship with. I do not feel you are the kind of person who would hound someone when they are busy, you just want to feel wanted. He clearly isn’t making you feel that.

To make it balanced I feel you also may have made an ideal in your head instead of seeing him objectively for what he is. After that initial courting phase for some relationships that electric chemistry quickly fizzles out or flirting dies down that is normal. Real strong chemistry lasts for longer, and in committed relationships eventually, you will find that you both need to work to keep that fire alive. He already knows he has you and what he is showing you now is his real self. Do you like this real self or do you like the initial phase?

It can be very common to feel an attachment to someone after sex since the brain releases all these hormones. The release of these hormones after being physically intimate may cause a feeling of attachment and closeness but you need to look at what your wants and needs are, do they actually align? It doesn’t appear to me they do purely based on what you have told us so far. If you had self-worth you would walk away because you would know you deserve more then crumbs of attention. You deserve all or nothing.

Hanging out with friends and prioritising them from time to time is healthy, everyone needs an independent life but I think anyone would be super annoyed if plans were made with someone in advance, and then they were brushed off for friends. Not even an emergency, a clear choice to be with someone other than you. That is a major character flaw and super disrespectful and immature behaviour. It is not someone who is working towards a serious relationship or demonstrating any loyalty to original plans. You clearly are not a priority. If you are happy to be casual then you have to accept it. How did you respond?

“I want him and I don’t know why?” That says a lot, Shelby. You are in love with the idea of him or being in a relationship. You said you feel alone in a new city, so you must be lonely, looking to fill a void. You’d rather have anyone around instead of dealing with your feelings of loneliness and low self-worth, you are willing to overlook certain behavior too. I think you catch feelings for a certain type more because you assign or put more value on them because they are unattainable. Somehow if they choose you it validates you. I think I’m the same, someone who has shown me consistent attention I always rejected. I made the wrong choices and here I am done with the pain. I want the real thing. This means I am going to confront all my issues so when I am out there, I will have the self-worth and power to walk away when my needs are not met. I will no longer rely on anyone else to make me feel whole. I will be self-sufficient.
Read this:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mysteries-love/201610/why-we-obsess-over-people-who-dont-want-us

I think it was another poster but they said sometimes we are sent lessons again and again until we learn.

You are so intelligent Shelby, do not hurt yourself again and again. This strikes me as a very selfish person, who knows you need more but is gaining something whilst not committing. I think if you plucked up the self-worth and courage to walk away I’d be wary he doesn’t draw you in with crumbs again. Never settle unless he shows intent to commit and change some of his behaviour to compromise x

Aww @Tim I’m so sorry for your loss 🙁  you’re not alone, if you want to share any memories of your Rupert, I’m here. There’s nothing I can say right now to make you feel better. I wish I could. Dogs are so loyal and true friends. I hope the shared memories bring you comfort. Thinking of you x

@Shelbyville I’m worried are you ok?

Let us know how you are coping, I hope tomorrow goes well and you enjoy your date and it’s nothing but a storm in a teacup.

Thinking of you x

I know you would prefer familiar reassurance and advice from @kkasxo- I’ll tag her too hopefully she sees it.

You are a lovely person Shelby after reading Michelle’s response to my advice, I think you are owed more from me. You come across as someone with a strong work ethic, someone who is an asset to her team to work crazy hours, caring, intelligent, sensitive, and with so much to offer.

The reason I asked if you had already been intimate is that some are notorious chasers they get off on that initial thrill in early courting, I think that doesn’t seem to be the case here. However like I said certain hormones are active during the acute phase of courting and it can lull you into a false sense of security too that’s why you should be relaxed until a relationship is defined.

I wouldn’t be worried by an emoji being missing at the end of a text, that is just your brain looking for reasons to provide evidence and support your inner critic. I think the major issue is you feel you have to read into these type of signs.

I’ve been doing a lot of self reflecting and I believe some of the things I’ve learned are applicable to yourself. We are very self-critical, we allow our inner critic to overpower and control our thoughts/behaviour.

I am going to be blunt and please do not be hurt by this and you can ignore and discard the advice of course. I know you are a sensitive person so yesterday I tried to be less direct. I could pretend that it is just fear. I could cheerlead and blame the guy, but this thread was my savior. You are the author and I want you to heal fully and have a fulfilled relationship as much as I.

The reality is you still do not have the self worth and appear to be deeply insecure in yourself. That isn’t just in relationships but you doubt your ability in your job too.

You are currently faking the high value act, this act allows you to attract anyone if you actually felt and believed it you would not be affected so much by the possibility of loss/rejection, disappointed but happy that you took a risk and assured that something better awaits for you.

Our masks always come off after the initial courting phase, everyone reveals their true self when the initial hormones have worn off. Everyone has flaws but someone who is truly high value doesn’t let the inner critic win as they are self assured. With a very self critical voice someone with low self worth will allow the feelings of insecurity and neediness to become amplified as the relationship continues then seek approval and reassurance from others.

Unless you really address the neediness and insecurity it will be tough for you to have a long lasting relationship, which is why I think you trying to forge a new relationship without really addressing the issues will hurt you.

Sometimes it can be a case we end up meeting someone who has different needs to us i.e. we may want closeness and partner prefers space in cases like those the partners either compromise and with good communication, the difference in compatibility can be rectified or they simply accept they are incompatible and part ways.

If the issues are stemming from deeper emotional issues you’ll hit the same block no matter what type of person you meet.

• In your own words you stated you ended up being needy/clingy with your ex.
• Your guy friend you mentioned to us you would end up feeling hurt when he didn’t reassure you in the way you wanted.
• You mentioned the 1st guy you casually dated left you distraught even though you didn’t want him. You said when you care about someone that is when the fear or anxiety strikes, but you felt insecure here too.
• Now this 2nd guy is making you feel anxious and so scared of loss.
There’s a pattern Shelby.

If a relationship gets going what you’ll end up trying to do is bend over backward for your partner to make yourself feel more adequate but when your emotional needs are not met eventually they will seep out in needy/clingy behaviour.

If you have a partner who is kind the relationship will continue. But then your partner will end up feeling burdened by the responsibility of being your sole source of happiness or guilty or resentful. Your partner will feel emotionally drained. Yet you will feel hurt and disappointed they are not giving you the reassurance in the way you need. Thus leading to your partner leaving or walking away because they are exhausted or overwhelmed and drained by being ultra-supportive of your emotional needs. From what you wrote I think the new guy is sensing this hence the change.

Personally, all my friends have been encouraging me to get back out there, except my best friend with a psychology background who was very compassionate but straight-talking also. I am not going out there until I know I have worked on similar issues myself. I read this quote once which went something like “until you have your own house built with the strong structure it’s unwise at best and unloving at the worst to invite someone to spend any length of time under your shaky roof.” So if we’re not 100% secure in ourselves should we even be looking for a relationship? Like Tim mentioned we may not like to accept it but we will end up perpetuating toxic cycles.

You have all the qualities but you have to have real self confidence and not seek reassurance from others You need to be happy with yourself first or nothing will change in your relationships.

Are you sure your therapy is doing you good? It may have made you hyperaware and not dealt with the actual issue. You said you’ve had therapy for years but the same issues are arising. Maybe try something different? A different therapist or training on behaviour patterns.

Maybe get your guy friend on board to assist you? He has first hand experience with you and that’s what opposite sex friends are for!! To help navigate the dating arena by giving you a view of yourself and the pitfalls to avoid. You mentioned you were totally yourself with him and he was emotionally understanding and cared. Ask him how he felt when you were needy etc and how he dealt with it etc. Or ask him for tips on what you could tweak to ensure you don’t feel so anxious in a new relationship.

We could have done with Tim giving an insight too. He has the experience and is pretty clued up with this stuff and may have put it across more succinctly and sensitively.

I think you should really spend tonight self loving, pamper yourself, switch off from the intrusive inner critic thoughts and enjoy your date and take it as it comes tomorrow.

It may surprise you but if something feels off still, discuss it and do not let it work you into a frenzy that you are not enough. Either way if this goes further you will need to address the issues or they will seep out further down the line in bigger ways because no one can reassure you forever or promise you a forever.

I’m really sorry if you didn’t want to read it. I don’t want to molly coddle you, I really think you are an amazing person with lots of strength and you need to believe that too x

@Shelbyville by that I don’t mean I’m happy you are struggling, I much rather you were happy! Just helps switch off for a bit helping others.

Is this new guy emotionally supporting you in your work stress? Good on you for walking out I wouldn’t stay a minute longer if I felt unease, prioritise yourself. I hope you get a good night’s sleep.

Speak in the morning! x

Hi @Shelbyville

I’m in military mode myself, discipline in my runs which has really helped lift some of that fog and firing off anyone who offers me nothing which no one is used to and took them by surprise. I had a huge clearout of so called friends and I feel better for it as they showed no concern for me during this time citing I had split up so many times they believed I would be ok and accept it by now, the nerve! It has been 6 months + that initial pain where I thought I can’t live has lifted but my ex, unfortunately, is on my mind in various ways a lot but I’m trying. I’m trying to be kinder to myself. I think the way it has panned out I will end up a much better person for it, The bad days are getting fewer I need to trust the process. His family still message me but I’m undecided to keep the ties or go for a clean break?!

First of all, Shelby, take a deep breath and give yourself a massive pat on the back, You ARE OVER YOUR EX! that is a humongous achievement. You did the growth to move on, You decided, however, you got there, you deserved more, you want to be in another relationship.

Self-worth is something I think needs a little more work reading what you wrote. It isn’t healthy to be so upset after casual dating ends with someone you didn’t really want. You are putting your worth entirely on the decision of someone else. Casual dating is meant to be light and fun and a way of avoiding pain really because you still have other options, you haven’t put your eggs in one basket. So there is something wrong, you still need to work on your self-love. It also kind of indicates you may actually be a monogamist yourself and want that one person to love and be loved by so badly.

Onto the 2nd guy, from what you wrote I think he sounds great and you are self-sabotaging here. He is a monogamist and focuses on one person at a time, so you don’t have to worry about cheating or competition. Monogamy is rare in people these days. He has put out the feelers and you initially wanted to go at a different pace, he still stuck around that is reassurance. Maybe he felt like you didn’t want more so he pulled back a little himself to meet your pace. Now you are rushing in, just give him space and time to catch up. You’ve suggested a sleepover so the fact he is being cautious and suggested the morning is good, he is not looking to get in your pants.

Do you know what you actually want from a relationship? Like what is your list after the lessons from your past? “But he was really head wrecked by me and couldn’t understand what I was talking about” what do you mean? What did you discuss that would make him feel that way or are you assuming?

The only thing I’d be wary about 2nd guy is him not being a great communicator/ not into the deep stuff, it seems you have a type because your ex was the same. So you may be looking for validation rather than love. I think as a person you will always need a bit of reassurance so just make sure you can communicate that across and an understanding partner will give you that but at the same time learn to be confident in yourself too. If your needs are not being met don’t cling. I think you place your worth in another person.

You are putting your heart on the line again so of course, it is going to be scary, of course, you are going to have nerves. But that means being vulnerable enough to handle rejection, as Tim said as long as you are being true to yourself if someone rejects you take it on the chin. It is their loss that is the mentality you need to adopt. Don’t have expectations, let things happen. If you nitpick and worry x means he isn’t interested without any evidence, it will be over before you know it. I’d say Sat morn focus on something like what you’ll do, wear, eat instead of he’s lost interest, take a chilled out approach, have fun on the day. Then have a light conversation about what you both want or see it going, if you’re still not on the same page then work on if you can be, if not be confident to walk away it is still early days you said only a few weeks ago you were dating newly and for distraction. Don’t let what could just be infatuation tie you in knots. You’ll be able to gauge more in-person conversation. You may be over-worrying for nothing.

Your job like seriously I’d give it some time it’s 2 weeks, so the initial introduction/ familiarisation is always intense, after a month if I felt the same and depressed by it I’d quit. x