Dear Caroline,

welcome back! 🙂

What you describe as love for this girl 7 years ago seems to me more like an idea of love, an excitement you felt, strong feelings you had… but all that happened in an undefined relationship, where you didn’t even know if you were dating or you were just hooking up. Am I assuming this right?

There was no communication (We did not really communicate and there were lots of misunderstandings), you didn’t talk about the status of your relationship and what you are to each other.

As a result, you “cheated” on her, not knowing you were cheating, assuming she was seeing other people. And then she got hurt, and that’s how you “broke up”.

You think what you felt for her was love (But what I thought then is that I loved her. And now after all these years I think I did love her, that this was love). Well, I believe that even if you loved her, this love wasn’t expressed as it should have been, because it was never communicated properly, and then you cheated on her.

So if it was love, it didn’t seem like love (at least on the outside), and it was mixed with other feelings as well. You did say you had your own issues and trauma, while she was into drugs. So I can imagine it was complicated and there were lots of difficult feelings…

This spring, happiness, love. I miss it and she was there.

It could be that you’re not happy in your current relationship, or with your life in general. And you miss excitement, and the feeling of “love is in the air”. And this makes you daydream about her?

So to me, it’s more like a symptom of something missing in your life and/or your relationship, rather than a sign that you should reach out to her.

What do you think?

Dear SereneWolf,

I’ve visited my hometown and it was good.

good to read from you again! I am glad you had a good time back home.

Have you already visited another doctor? What did S/he? said? Take care of yourself.

I have, but he wasn’t helpful at all… so I’ll keep looking. And thanks for your support!

Because I did felt like I’m the responsible for “saving” her since I was in the relationship with her so I used to think as her best supporter and a lover it’s my responsibility. Otherwise what am I even doing for this relationship?

Yeah, supporting each other is a natural thing in a relationship. But if it’s one-sided and you’re “supporting”, i.e. trying to heal her all the time, that’s not healthy. I mean, you’re not her therapist, you’re her boyfriend. It doesn’t mean you can’t talk about issues, you sure can, but deep emotional wounds can only be healed in therapy, not in a romantic relationship.

Wow so I think 50% means still there’s good chance. Although I’m surprised since US consumes more anti-depressants than any other nation. As per statistics more teens and women.

Yeah, the US probably consumes too many antidepressants. But in terms of emotional health, they might still be better than some other parts of the world… of course, all those are generalizations, so not really relevant.

And yeah she seems pretty upset because I didn’t try to contact her while I was in my hometown, and today she told me that she actually texted me “I miss you” but then deleted because she thought that I’m not missing her so she shouldn’t admit that either. But we’re meeting this weekend so let’s see what happens. and tbh I already feel scared just because she said “I miss you”

Okay, I like that she was honest about wanting to text you, but then deleting it. So she showed her vulnerability after all, even if at first she wanted to hide it.

How come you didn’t text her at all while you were away? Didn’t feel the need, or you stopped yourself because it would have seemed “weak and needy”?

tbh I already feel scared just because she said “I miss you”

Right… what’s the first thing that comes to your mind when she says “I miss you”?

Oh I see I didn’t know that. So it’s also related to PTSD we’ve talked about?

Yes, we (our inner child) is trying to finally get our distant/unloving parent to love us. Only now it’s not the parent but our romantic partner whom we’re trying to change.

Yes It does makes sense. And since I’m practicing more empathy I do see more good qualities that people have around me..

Excellent!

First one isn’t seems hard but yeah second one does seem hard. I think even though I’m getting enough reminders inner critic is still isn’t fully silent.

Okay, so if the inner critic can still make you believe you’re not good enough, it means that your inner child feels not good enough. And you’d need to tell your inner child that he is precious and talented and lovable, and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with him.

When those thoughts of “not good enough” start popping up in some form, try to be like general Iroh to your inner child and tell him how precious he is. And that whoever tells him differently is a liar and doesn’t know a thing!

Oh yeah it could be like that! Like I said before about duality, What to do about that?

Be aware of it. I think the main duality in you is 1) the inner child who is afraid of judgment and believes he is unworthy, and 2) the protector (which is the shield around your heart) who wants to protect your inner child from harm. But he is doing it by wrong means – by shutting down intimacy and vulnerability altogether.

What would need to happen is that you be a good parent to your inner child and assure him that he is worthy (as I described above). And you also assure him that you’ll protect him from other people’s judgments and mistreatment (by setting boundaries, learning to say No, etc), should there be need for it.

So you, the adult SereneWolf, become the good and healthy protector for your inner child. Like a good father. That’s how you can replace this unhealthy, toxic protector, who is the Outer Critic/shield around your heart.

I hope it’s not too messy the way I’ve explained it?

He doesn’t talk disrespectfully to me anymore. He talks more calmly to me, Explain things to me.

Good! If he isn’t trying to put you down, isn’t yelling at you etc, that’s great.

Since I’m not living with my family I already spend much less time with my father.. and even when I’m home I mostly spend time with my siblings and mother.

That’s good too. You’re already minimizing the time spent with him, even during your visits, and instead spend time with those in whose company you feel good and not judged…

Hi Adam,

To answer your question one of the conditions my psych said was to actually say that therapy is a must so I know she is making the changes. But again it’s hard as she wouldn’t want to be forced but I think it would have to come to that for my own security.

I agree with your therapist that she would need to seek professional help, and not rely exclusively on self-help or you helping her. Her issues are big enough to warrant therapy. This I think should be your precondition if she wants to get back together some time in the future. If she resists, of course you can’t force it, but you can still stick to this requirement. As you yourself said it, it’s important for your own mental and emotional safety.

Deep down I know she was lucky to have me. I genuinely do love myself and things I do for people, I always go above and beyond. I know im good without hearing it from others.

This is so good to hear, Adam. I am happy that you love yourself and don’t need to seek confirmation from her or anybody else.

Girls are definitely my biggest killer as I tend to get attached and obsessive which is what I will be looking at next with my psych. My first issue was the weed smoking but now I have good control over that and I’m happy where I am with that.

It’s great you could put smoking under control. That’s a great achievement!

As for the girls, it seems to me that in your previous relationships you were less attached to them than you were to your last girlfriend:

I probably wasn’t very considerate during my first couple relationships. They would definitely frustrate me a lot with their own problems which is harsh to say. …. I did feel like I was stepping on eggshells with them. They were not as laid back. I was smoking full time during them and it was a problem but I couldn’t stop.

Am I right thinking that you didn’t want to be too attached to your previous girlfriends, and it was more like that they were needy and clingy, while you were more of the avoidant one? They wanted something from you, and you found it annoying and just wanted to be left alone and smoke weed? (maybe this is oversimplification – let me know what the dynamic with them was?)

Whereas with this girl, things were different:

However this girl was different as I actually want to help her and be there for her.

None of them I felt for how I did this girl. Every moment seemed so real and there was no second guessing my heart at all. It really felt like destiny or a higher force to me and that’s why I wanted to give it my all.

For her, you stopped smoking weed. You didn’t want to break up (like you did with you past exes), you were clinging to the relationship, no matter how hard it was. You didn’t find her annoying, and you didn’t feel like you were walking on eggshells, even though she was quite sensitive to how you were treating her.

It’s almost like the roles were reversed in this relationship: you were the one who was clingy, and she, with her frequent breakups and her dissociation/withdrawal behaviors, was like the avoidant one.

I don’t know how significant this is, but thought to mention it, since I’ve just noticed it. Anyway, let me know what you think…

Hi Adam,

I just feel abandoned and disrespected now. I feel like I was lied to and she wasn’t honest or open with me at all.

I totally get that you feel abandoned and disrespected. You thought she loved you and wanted to be with you, and that she wanted to work on herself so she could have a healthier relationship with you. And then she goes on a dating app…. quite the opposite of what she told you.

She was telling you that you were her best boyfriend, her best friend, her rock… well if this was the case, she wouldn’t have joined a dating app so quickly.

Unless there were really 2 parts in her: one that loved you and thought you were the best, and the other, the wounded part, which didn’t trust you and thought you wanted to hurt her. You described this duality here:

She did say she felt i mistreated her at times but again she would always take it back and apologize once things had calmed down. “You dont mistreat me, Im sorry for saying that I know you treat me well” things along those lines she would say.

So one part (the wounded part) felt mistreated, but the other part (the rational part) knew it wasn’t true. I don’t think she lied to you when she apologized and told you you were not mistreating her. Also, perhaps she didn’t lie to you when she said you were her best boyfriend, her rock etc. Because the rational part might have thought that.

But the emotional part (the wounded part) felt differently. It was telling her that you were not right for her, that you were mistreating her, that her seizures meant she shouldn’t be with you. The wounded part was having “feelings of leaving”… so it could be that her wounded part sabotaged the relationship, even if her rational part maybe wanted it?

You said yesterday that she was prescribed antipsychotics in her teens, so this 2-part theory might actually be quite feasible. I am not saying she is a split personality, but there could be a sharp contrast between those two parts.

When she told you that she was “constantly torn between her heart and her head”, she might have been talking about the conflict between those two parts. And finally her “heart” (which is actually her wounded part) won.

So considering that, I am not sure she was lying to you during the relationship. Only at the end, I guess, when the wounded part won and she decided to leave. That’s when she told you she needed to work on herself, when in fact she just wanted out.

I don’t know if you find this explanation feasible and if looking at things this way helps you at all?

Hi Adam,

So if I got this right, when you met her, you were both smoking weed, but you were smoking more than her, i.e. you couldn’t stop, while she could (she was doing much better reducing her usage), and it seems it bothered her. She said “we are on different paths”, and she broke up with you. Your smoking was the reason for the first 3 breakups, if I understood right?

most the time it was the small things that triggered her, she couldn’t look at the bigger picture in life. Such as work, family, exercise and passion.

You said that the last time she was triggered, you were talking about those same topics (marriage, family, kids). What was it about it that she would get upset about? Maybe you wanted to settle down, and she didn’t? Or you told her she needs to find her passion, and she had trouble doing that?

I do remember one time we were play fighting and I put my arm around her neck from behind although I honestly didn’t think I choked her like that. Next day she was very upset and broke off again and said I told you do never do that as it was the one thing she didn’t want. I explained it was an accident and we moved on, I said my apology and that it would never happen again.

Right.. so does it mean it already happened before – that you were play fighting and you accidentally grabbed her where she didn’t want? But then it happened again and that’s when she broke it off? Or it only happened once?

The fourth time was bad it was just after New Year and again I fell into my trap of smoking weed again, it was holidays so I found it harder. She said I had become distant etc. She said she had to Love and Leave me.

Right.. well, that’s true that people who smoke tend to be less empathic because they are in their “feel-good” bubble. So I can imagine it hurt her when you were paying less attention to her. And I guess she needed you to be her emotional support at all times, so it wasn’t really a good deal for her.

After many texts and silence about 4 days later we got back together and I said I am not smoking daily anymore because I realized it pushed her away. Looking back I wish I was more careful and thoughtful about my own conditions. I asked her to provide me with security and honesty in the relationship. So I quit smoking daily. I made the changes and I only smoke on the odd occasion ever since.

Good for you! I am glad you made those changes…

I’m not sure if my smoking was a genuine reason for her breaking up with me in the past because now I wasn’t reliant on it and she was happy for me as she always said.

It could have been, because I think she needed you to emotionally regulate her. So if you were careless and emotionally distant, she didn’t like it. So your smoking could have been the reason she left you on those 3 occasions. But after the New Year’s, you said you stopped. However, other problems remained (like her being needy and oversensitive). And maybe the family/kids/”seeing the big picture” theme, which you seemed to have your differences about?

No i was quite open about my feelings with her, told her about work, psych appointments, anxiety I was feeling at times. There was one time she wasn’t there for me when i was so anxious and thought she would leave again but she apologized and said she just couldn’t talk sometimes, so I would get left in the dark. It was many hours later she said this.

It was good you were open about your own issues. So your dynamic wasn’t just you noticing her issues, trying to get her to work on them, while pretending you don’t have issues of your own… However, it seems she wasn’t able to support you when you were really anxious, since it was too much for her. I can understand that, because if she was an anxious and easily dysregulated person herself, she wouldn’t have the capacity to soothe you, to calm you down. I guess your anxiety only dysregulated her even more.

By putting in all the work I think she just meant that she was more emotionally invested and attached. I was very attached, I would explain to her I can be a bit oblivious and spacey in general, not that I was feeling down. Usually I am always smiling so she would notice when I wasn’t and ask what’s wrong and I would reply with nothing as i generally felt okay.

Well, smoking weed can make people oblivious and spacey. And as I said, it seems to me she needed someone to sort of “guard over” her all the time and give her emotional support (because she couldn’t regulate herself). And so when you were spaced out, she didn’t appreciate it.

Let me ask you: when you stopped smoking weed regularly, after the New Year’s, has your mood changed? Did you get more anxious and less “happy-go-lucky”? Because maybe that too was something she didn’t like?

They were nice enough but my well-being was dragging me down as I did feel like I was stepping on eggshells with them. They were not as laid back. I was smoking full time during them and it was a problem but I couldn’t stop.

Right… so since you were smoking all the time, it could be that you were careless and not empathetic enough with them, and they would complain about it. You thought they weren’t laid back enough, but it might have been actually you who was not considerate enough? Maybe you would leave when they were complaining, but then returned to give it another try, to try to be “more invested”?

That is why I changed my habits over time with this girl because I knew I actually wanted her.

Good! Because it seems smoking did affect your relationships quite a bit. Unfortunately, with this one, the problem was bigger, but still it’s great you managed to stop. Let it be not just for her, but for yourself too…

Hi Adam,

I am sorry to hear this – it must be very painful for you 🙁

I totally understand why you feel betrayed and disappointed. Because she was telling you how great you were and that she wants you in her life:

she said I was her best boyfriend, her rock, her best friend

She said herself she was happy until she wasn’t with me. Lots of her words gave me high hopes for our future together

And then she goes and joins a dating app a few days after the breakup! I am sorry…

It does seem she wasn’t very honest with you, or even if she meant you were the best boyfriend, she still chose to find another one, instead of working on herself. Maybe you were indeed the most caring and patient boyfriend she had so far, but it could be that she didn’t like it when you encouraged her to seek therapy, or when you noticed some of her traumatic reactions.

You said that the night she left she actually got upset when you told her this:

I mentioned to her I noticed that she rolls over and goes quiet when she is in a sad state, I also told her I realise that sometimes she death stares me with a blank face when she is upset/angry. This stare almost seems like a switch to me. when I mentioned this i think it started the events later in the night.

It could be that she didn’t like being told those things (even if they were true). Maybe she did feel inadequate and felt that you were trying to put her down (even though you didn’t – you were just being honest with her). But because of her unresolved trauma, it hurt her and she didn’t want to hear it.

So this could be an alternative explanation to why she broke it off. We thought it was because she realized how hurt she was and that she isn’t capable of loving you properly. But maybe she saw it differently: maybe she thought that you weren’t capable of loving her “perfectly”, without triggering her, without mentioning her traumatic reactions. Maybe she was hurt by what she perceived as your “imperfect” love. And so her motivation for leaving would have been different than what we thought.

In any case, I hope you know that your love wasn’t “imperfect” or lacking, and that you didn’t do anything wrong by sometimes noticing her emotional states or reactions. But it could be that this was painful for her and she couldn’t really face herself… and so she opted to leave.

In that scenario (where she rather blames you for not being “sensitive enough”), it would make sense that she’d start looking for someone else, who will be “better” than you and give her what she needs. Of course, it’s an illusion, because no one will be able to give her what she really needs until she resolves her trauma. But she could be hoping for it and trying nevertheless… after all, she’s only 21, and you’re right, there could be some immaturity about her too, or simply wanting to take a shortcut, instead of diving deeper into her own issues.

It’s put a lot into perspective for me as this just seems like toxic, selfish behavior as well as being immature about relationships.

Well, yes, it’s selfish, but it’s the result of her woundedness. People who are wounded don’t care much about others, i.e. they inadvertently hurt others. She didn’t want to hurt you on purpose, but she did nevertheless, because as the saying goes, “hurt people hurt people”.

I feel harsh saying it but I genuinely think I deserved better after all the effort and support I’ve put in.

You do deserve better. You deserve to be in an emotionally healthy relationship, where you don’t need to walk on eggshells and apologize for your every word. The relationship with her wasn’t like that…

If I don’t hear back from her then I know she isn’t worth it. If I do it’ll have to be up to her to chase me because right now as you said I need to work on myself.

Well, if you knew that she joined the dating app, would you have sent that letter? I guess not… She might reply if she doesn’t find anyone better on the app… but I hope you won’t rush to accept her back and start the same cycle again. Because don’t forget that she can’t just heal miraculously and be a changed person without doing any work on herself. In any case, I’d be very careful even if she replied and wanted to get back together…

I’m investing too much into someone who either has a serious mental condition, lots of confusion, a problem with honesty and lying, or they are just young immature and toxic about relationships.

Probably all of the above is true. But as I said, she’s not doing it on purpose. Nevertheless, you don’t need to be a part of it. As you said, you deserve better. And the best is to really focus on yourself and work on yourself. May I ask – have you in the past been in a similar relationship, with someone problematic whom you wanted to “save”?

Hi Adam,

Yes she was doing cbt I believe. I will consider the somatic therapy suggestion, right now I think she needs to work through some stuff herself and me suggesting giving therapy another shot would best be done in person I believe.

Yes you’re right, you can suggest it with time…

She was doing well with her tapering

Hm you said in your earlier post that she found the tapering difficult: She is trying to taper off them slowly but was definitely finding it difficult. … I think she was disappointed in herself and not hopeful that she could actually get off the medication after being prescribed for a while.

So I guess she wasn’t that successful with tapering on her own? What actually occurred to me (and it may be a total nonsense since I am no expert), but could it be that since she was taking a smaller dose, her trauma response got stronger when she would get triggered? And also she couldn’t return so easily to that calmer state, where she was open to listening to your explanations and reassurance, and where you managed to convince her you do love her?

So perhaps the reduced medication lead her to be more agitated and less responsive to your reassurance? And that could be the reason why this time she wanted space?

So perhaps this could be the answer to your question: I still don’t fully understand why she pushed me away and didn’t want my help

As I said, I am no expert and don’t know how those medications work, but I am just thinking out loud.

I will post if I hear anything back either soon or in the future. I’m prepared for her to go cold and not respond but I think she will eventually reach back when she is comfortable and in a better spot. It wouldn’t make sense to me if she didn’t.

Yes, please let me know how and if she responded. It’s good you’re prepared for not getting an immediate response, for her really needing space at the moment.

And as we’ve talked before, try not to focus only on her, but on yourself too. I understand you love her and want the best for her, but you can’t “save” her against her will. So take good care of yourself and find something you enjoy.

And you’re very welcome, Adam. Wishing you all the best!