fbpx
Menu

Tee

Forum Replies Created

Viewing 15 posts - 1,111 through 1,125 (of 1,942 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386577
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    you’re welcome.

    The lessons have been learned I think, what’s left is to disengage myself from the pain and disappointment.

    One thing I would like to emphasize, which has transpired during our conversation, is that in the beginning you didn’t see neither him or her clearly. You didn’t see his behavior as abusive, you said your relationship was both carefree and loaded with conflicts. The two just don’t go together, so there was some disconnect, or a blind spot in your perception, where you thought this is how a best friend should treat you, and that it’s still a great and valuable relationship that you want to keep.

    Likewise, it seems to me that you didn’t see her clearly either. You thought that you had a super loving relationship, and that “the feelings, attraction only kept growing stronger“. At the same time, she was complaining about things going too slowly, she didn’t keep her promise of helping you with finances and/or relocation, she watched you struggle (financially and physically due to lot of work), but did hardly anything to help. This was all before your “friend” came into the picture.

    I don’t know the entire story and the intricacies of your “convoluted legal and economic situation”, but if she promised to help with a rather important existential issue, and then was delaying things and left you stranded, it’s a sign that she’s not that madly in love, right? But you didn’t pick it up… Like with your “friend”, you might have thought that such behavior (selfishness, not keeping one’s word) is normal in a relationship?

    Anyway, I believe she didn’t suddenly become cold and hostile, while just a few months earlier being super supportive and loving, with fabulous plans for the future. Rather, I believe that her ”cooling down” happened gradually, but you didn’t see or didn’t want to see the warning signs.

    She expressed concerns about “things being too slow” (for some reason you couldn’t move to her country so easily), but you said those were minor problems and you always had a plan B. But perhaps she didn’t see it as minor problems…

    When your “friend” approached her with an apology, she was ready to confide in him about your relationship problems, and they found a common language – that of criticizing and blaming you.

    This is what I think happened, at least it would make sense to me (you said you’re trying to make sense of what happened). So basically, her withdrawing wasn’t such a surprise, but it was a surprise for you. At least that’s how I see it.

    I think you would need to examine why you didn’t see the warning signs, and if you did, why you disregarded them. Perhaps that would be one of the most important lessons to learn from this whole experience…

    in reply to: End off the Road!! #386569
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Javier,

    I don’t have experience with psychiatrists, but I do with other medical doctors, and they often have limitations and don’t even know what to suggest if it goes beyond what they’ve already dealt with. My husband had to search the internet himself to find a solution that helped him with his medical problem. Doctors, even those with prestigious degrees, didn’t know what to suggest, other than what they learned in school dozens of years ago.

    So it’s common unfortunately that doctors too reach a limit of their expertise and can’t really give you more – unless they’d want to dig deeper, consult their colleagues etc. But they usually don’t have time for that, they have many other patients to see, and so you’re often left alone to find out what works best for you.

    but why can’t they show me the direction or at least tell me if there are any books or courses I can do.

    Sarah and I suggested books that might be helpful – have you taken a look at them?

    I’m annoyed, frustrated and perplexed. I have been in several sessions with my therapists, and I’m still stuck at square one.

    Have you continued with somatic psychotherapy? Do you find it inefficient too?

     

    in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386568
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    The living situation is mine to handle and I’m doing what I can, there’s no plan because a plan is impossible in my case

    He runs a company in the field where my skills are relevant, I didn’t go into detail, only that me and her worked together, and he was actually very polite and helpful, giving me both tips and practical help like offering to introduce me to some companies which may be good for me.

    It appears you do have a plan, or at least an idea, where to look next. So there is a possibility to apply for a job in that same country where you ex lives, but through different channels…

    He was also obviously hurt by her but didn’t say anything negative, just that she’s also refusing to talk to him.

    So you didn’t tell her ex that you were involved with her, but only that she refuses to talk to you? And then he said that she refuses to talk to him too?

    The emotional side cannot be molded though, and I’m not somebody who forgets. I do not want to bear with the pain and that distorted image of her for the rest of my life.

    You’d need to deal with your emotions though, in order to move forward.

    I’m not somebody who forgets.

    You said earlier that you don’t hold grudges and you don’t hate. Someone who doesn’t forget (having been hurt) and has trouble bearing with the pain is someone who does hold grudges, in my view.

    If you allow your emotions to stay cemented (“cannot be molded”), you won’t be able to heal and learn lessons from this experience, so you don’t repeat it again.

     

    in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386544
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    Like I said before, she was the one asking questions, wanting to be close to me and forcing all those promises of help. I just enjoyed spending time with her.

    I see. She was inquiring about you, asking questions, wanting to know more about you and your family, and when you told her, she became very enthusiastic to help you. All that happened even before you got romantically involved. You weren’t pushing or expecting anything, it was rather her who insisted on helping you.

    everybody who knows him or interacted with him, is on my side of the story,

    That’s good that people you work with believe you, and not him.

    As for her, there can be more explanations for her behavior, and we’ve already talked about some possibilities. In your latest post you said he was instructing her what to tell you during the conflict. It seems she became super impressionable, and it could be because he found her weak spot: getting recognition from someone whose opinion means a lot to her.

    We’ve already talked about it – that she has a brother who used to discredit her. Your “friend” did the same to her at first, and they fought (My “friend” was on a “break” from it (as in, not really caring), then he came back, noticed her and was furious about his “authority being challenged”, also started to belittle her work and challenge her, and she challenged him back.).

    Maybe he reminded her of her brother, and that’s why she felt an “inexplicable draw” towards him. And when he finally apologized and gave her recognition, it might have been like receiving the long-awaited recognition from her brother, and she got hooked.

    For an insecure and weak person, it could mean a great deal. She might have gotten emotionally attached to him because he was giving her what she (or rather, her inner child) needed. She might have even regressed to a child and couldn’t reason with her own head any more. That’s why he needed to instruct her what to tell you. Strong emotional attachment can in fact make people lose their reasoning abilities.

    So that’s one possible explanation. The other is that she has BPD. Another could be that she has a strong need to be liked and made empty promises, just so you’d like her. Whatever might be the case, she isn’t the person you thought she was.

    I want her to be free from whatever venom he may have injected into her mind. I want her to explain things clearly and to apologize for all the harm, pain and injustice she inflicted. I simply don’t want to see her in a bad light for the rest of my life, like somebody dishonest, ungrateful, cruel and fickle.

    And what if she doesn’t apologize and doesn’t come to her senses? Where does that leave you, both emotionally and in terms of your living situation?

    Because I believe there are two aspects of this problem: one is the emotional (disappointment, betrayal and heart-break), and the other is existential – related to your hopes for a better future and helping your mother as well. Is there a plan B, which can help you improve your living situation, without your ex involved?

     

    in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386537
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    It is the same project, and of course he was removed from it a long time ago,

    Who removed him? You, as the person in charge of the project, or someone else?

    BTW, have you taken steps to counteract his slandering and not lose your reputation among the people involved in your project?

     

    That it makes no sense for somebody to be so helpful, that her overdone friendliness feels very fake, that she will hurt me and separate us two. Things like that. He was worried that I was being played, and ultimately he was right.

    If she started offering her money and help for you and your mother to relocate to her country – before even getting romantically involved with you – that is indeed too much. You might have complained or told her about your difficult financial situation, and she, in an attempt to be “nice” and a “good samaritan”, offered her help. As I said, people who have the need to be liked by others tend to do this, where they promise a lot and then don’t deliver on it.

    So your “friend” was right that it was too much and even fake. He of course had his own selfish motives in mind when he warned you about her – he didn’t want to share you with anyone else. So his view is heavily skewed by his own selfishness and possessiveness, but in this instance, he was right.

    Obviously after the breakup, I didn’t expect any grand plans anymore yet she still promised to keep helping in the ways she can (as those ideas of hers started even before we got romantically involved). Just a couple of days after that, she suddenly became very aggressive and petty, withdrew all the support entirely, said we aren’t friends anymore and many other hurtful things such as attacks on my personality…. She even refused to take a quick look at some critical documents I made with her guidance and to give her opinion on those.

    My take on this is that after the breakup, she didn’t have the need to be liked by you any more. She became openly hostile. So she didn’t need to keep the pretense that she is a good samaritan and that she has your best interests in mind.

    During the turmoil, she sent me many mixed signals as she would go from angry and cold/cruel to nostalgic or even affectionate. From saying that she doesn’t want me in her life anymore to saying that she missed me badly and still loves me even if that diminished.

    That was in the transition period, while she was still not sure what she wants (she said something like “I don’t know myself”). She still wanted to appear kind (as if she were the same kind person who offered to help you and your mother so generously), but at the same time, her doubts about you have intensified. I think that’s why she was sending you mixed signals.

    He himself admitted to putting her against me and even trying to force our separation, he’s full of hate for me and obviously has been filling her head with all sort of delusions and slander.

    I think it would be worth, just for the sake of complete honesty with yourself, to examine if there was anything you did that went against the moral code, or best practices, in your field of work. Something that would give him an excuse to slander you. Or, if there were things you told him about her, that she didn’t know (e.g. that she is very important to you because she’ll solve your and your mother’s existential problems). And then he might have used that to tell her that you are with her only for the money. You see what I mean? Were there such things in your behavior or attitude, either private or professional, which might have painted you in a bad light, if taken the wrong way?

    My only hope is that she’ll be able organize her mind and remember what we had, what happened during the conflict with him, his vile treatment of me, and how he actually is. And I hope that it happens sooner than later.

    Are you expecting her to get back to you? Are you hoping that she’d still help you with your relocation? What are you expecting from her?

     

    in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386529
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    It is the same project, and of course he was removed from it a long time ago, when the conflict in between those two was ongoing and he pushed my hand. The slandering was done through mutual acquaintances.

    Earlier you said that she too is working on a mutual project with you (“We engaged in many activities together, even a mutual project. Simply put, we connected very well on most levels and could enjoy each other’s company even while working“).

    You said that she too noticed his problematic behavior at work (I’ve had a lot of people complain about his conduct and how he was sabotaging things with his thoughtless behavior, which in turn devalued my own work, which is also what my ex kept saying about him.)

    Does it mean that the three of you all work (or have worked) on the same project? You said earlier that she was “expecting you to work on multiple things at once”. Was in the work context – is she perhaps your supervisor?

    And also, when your “friend” started slandering you recently, did she believe him? Are you in danger of getting fired from the project?

    I’ll address the other points in your latest post later, but I just wanted to clarify this.

    in reply to: My ex and I still love each other, but can’t be together #386524
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Candice88,

    Another thing to point out is how the toxicity wasn’t let out of the bag all at once. … I was the one that noticed that it was addiction – he never admitted to that before the last 6 months.

    When did he start behaving suspiciously? When did you suspect first that something is off and that he might be hiding something?

    I completely understand that the addiction has nothing to do with me. Before yesterday I was upset but at peace with the ball being in his court and never expecting to hear that he got sober in the end.

    But the cheating is what is tearing me apart. The cheating is what is telling me that I’m not good enough. And that something is inherently wrong with me.

    Right. So you attributed all of his bad behavior to his being an addict, and not because you’ve deserved any of it. So you didn’t feel bad about yourself. But once you’ve found out that he cheated on you, you suddenly felt it was because of some failure in you. That you’re not good enough or desirable enough. You didn’t think that his cheating (and being attracted to trans girls) is also contributed by his drug addiction? And if it were, would you feel better about yourself?

    Or, as an option B, that his cheating is caused by him being a lousy person in general, regardless of his drug use or not. And again, that it has nothing to do with you?

     

    in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386521
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    Our general relationship was mostly carefree but also loaded with conflicts which ranged from small to big, and I did have to take a stern or distant stance during those. Like I said before, he was very bad at respecting boundaries and my wishes.

    It cannot be both carefree and loaded with conflicts. And it cannot be carefree when he was threatening to kill himself…

    When it comes to my project, he wanted to help and so of course I let him in. Sure there were times where he helped or tried to, but in the end he mostly kept causing issues, stirring conflicts with other people and always let me down when I tried to rely on him for actual work. Likewise he often challenged my authority while overblowing his own even though he wasn’t contributing much if anything. I’ve had a lot of people complain about his conduct and how he was sabotaging things with his thoughtless behavior, which in turn devalued my own work, which is also what my ex kept saying about him.

    And in spite of his bad conduct and him causing more harm than good, you still got him involved in your latest project too (where he is now slandering you)? Or it’s one and the same project, which is still ongoing?

    She wanted me to mediate so I don’t lose a friend over her, while constantly provoking him. He wanted me to get rid of her and cave into his demands while constantly disrespecting her and me both. As to how, I’ve no idea, but I truly tried.

    BTW you earlier said he thought she was an impostor. In what way? What exactly did he have against her?

    Not only financially but also logistically, and to help us with the relocation to a better place.

    Does it mean she promised to help your mother too to relocate to her country, together with you? Your mother would come to live with the two of you, in the big house that was being built, or something like that?

     

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Tee.
    in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386506
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    I myself was pushed into a corner with his behavior and didn’t know what else I could try at that point, and I have tried a lot. He kept hurting her, himself and me because he simply refused to apologize and to treat her with basic respect since he thought she’s insidious and has ulterior motives, will hurt me and separate us two (all prophetic).

    I understand that this is what happened in the situation with your ex. But I actually meant how you treated him in general, i.e. what the relationship dynamic was between the two of you even before he met your ex. If it was more like you were a parent, and he was a child whom you felt responsible for, then it might have been patronizing. You might have felt superior, in need to guide him, and as I said, save him from himself. For example, save him from the consequences of his “reckless behavior”.

    It seems to me that you were attached to helping him, you wanted to help him and save him at all costs. And so you kept involving him in common projects, even if he only caused trouble? I am just assuming here, but would you say this was the relationship dynamic between the two of you?

    Like I said before, those two started the conflict but the responsibility of solving it was placed on me.

    What did they actually expect from you? How should you have solved it?

    It involved my mother being stuck in a place she didn’t like, doing ridiculously exhausting work which worsened her health. Because moving somewhere else would have compromised or set back those “plans”. She encouraged my mother to stick to it and that soon things will be much better.

    So by turning against you, your ex also betrayed your mother. Your mother counted on her financial and possibly other help to get her out of her currently unfavorable situation. And this is what hurts you most – the harm done to your mother.

    I have a feeling that you cannot help your mother get rid of her exhausting work, because you too are struggling financially? Your ex promised both you and your mother to help you financially, but she only gave you “breadcrumbs” and then turned against you and went back on her word. So she left you stranded… is this what happened?

     

    in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386449
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    I’d like to revisit this fact that you’d treated him like a child:

    although there were many times where I did sort of have to treat him like a child due to his behavior. This is one of the complaints that my ex voiced when it comes to my “poor treatment” of him, that I treat him like a child.

    In general, when we treat someone like a child, we feel superior to them and we feel it’s our right to lecture them, tell them what to do, how to behave etc. You might have been very much invested in keeping him “on the right track” and saving him from himself, and in doing that you might have been patronizing him and treating him like a child. Would you say this is what happened?

    She actively involved my mother in those empty “plans and promises” she made, which made her compromise her health, time and happiness for a long time, working towards that ultimate goal which was never going to happen.

    I don’t really understand what kind of promise she gave to your mother, which would require your mother to compromise her health and happiness? Was your mother required to take up extra work, so that the “ultimate goal” would come to fruition?

     

    in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386445
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    Perhaps as a brother more than a child, although there were many times where I did sort of have to treat him like a child due to his behavior.

    Right. It seems you were both mother and father to him. In your mother role, you were unconditionally loving and forgiving, in your father role you might have been strict and cold sometimes (after he’d throw a tantrum), but you’d quickly revert to your “motherly” love and caring for him. Would you agree?

    I am slowly getting but every time I wake up, there’s this still this deep pain because of the harm she caused to my mother. It’s one thing for her to blindly believe whatever angry slander, delusions and exaggerations about me that he’s been throwing at her, as a way to justify her stockholm syndrome, cheating and monkey branching, but how is my mother at fault for anything?

    How has she caused harm to your mother? If I understood well, it had something to do with her withdrawing her financial support?

     

    in reply to: My ex and I still love each other, but can’t be together #386444
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Candice88,

    Except 3/4 of my boyfriends presented as stable, put together, healed. I was never attracted to someone who needed to be fixed, yet they eventually showed themselves as people who don’t know themselves. Or know how to lie and what people want to hear. I always felt fooled when their toxicity reared up after a slow reveal.

    Right. Your initial attraction might have been to men that seemed put together and healed. But when you realized they are not, you still stayed with them. At least that’s what happened with M. He was treating you poorly, he’s been promising things and never kept his word, he told you he quit using in April but his behavior hardly changed. And yet, you kept hoping that he isn’t lying, that he’d change eventually. And even now, when you’ve found out he is still using, you believed that perhaps there is a way to get together again, once he gets sober:

    Before I learned about the cheating, I felt more balanced – that if he gets sober long term maybe we can try again if I feel like it could work.

    You wanted desperately to be with him, even though you knew what he was like. You’d rather not see the warning signs (even when they were out in plain sight) than accept that this guy will never be able to truly love you and respect you, and that he doesn’t deserve your love. Do you see that?

    It’s not about the initial attraction, it’s about the inability to let go of a toxic person when their toxicity becomes obvious. This inability to let go of toxic love is due to the little girl unable to let go of her need for her mother. It’s very natural that the girl wouldn’t want to let go, because staying attached is a survival need. This same need was active with M: the little girl would do anything to stay attached (i.e. save the relationship). She’d even look away and pretend she doesn’t see things. And she’d convince herself that it’s her fault that he can’t love her properly. She wasn’t willing to let go of him, even if he was treating you like trash.

    So the real challenge is not in the beginning of the relationship, but when the troubles start (and the lies and manipulations) – what do you do then? Do you try saving the relationship at all costs, allowing yourself to be manipulated and disrespected, or you say – farewell, I am not tolerating this, I deserve better. And you step away, without looking back.

     

     

    in reply to: My ex and I still love each other, but can’t be together #386440
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Candice88,

    I am really sorry that things took a turn for worse with M. But to be honest, it was to be expected, since M’s habits and lifestyle could easily allow him to keep using. This is what you wrote just recently:

    I’m still going to bed and waking up alone 6/7 nights a week, I make dinner for when he says he will be home and I eat alone, then go to bed alone,

    But now when he doesn’t come to bed because he’s in his car on his phone for hours, or making music for hours, or in his garage until sunrise (all times he told me he’d come to bed “soon”), or late for anything, it just ends up hurting more since I’ve been forcing myself to be less calloused.

    He was spending nights away from home, and hours and hours in his car, away from you. That’s very suspicious. Have you ever checked on him when he was in his car btw?

    You said a couple of times that he lies often:

    I didn’t believe him (he lies often)

    he’s lied so much about his drug abuse

    You knew about his propensity to lie, but you wanted to believe that this time, he’s not lying – even if everything suggested that he was. You wanted to believe that this time it would be different, and that he’d finally give you the love you craved.

    That’s your inner child, Candice. The child hopes against all hope that the parent will finally change and give them the love they long for. You’ve stopped hoping to get love from your mother, instead you’re hoping to get it from your boyfriends. And so far, you’ve been attracted to people who are unlikely to be able to give you proper love. You’ve been attracted to cheaters and addicts. You wanted to “save” M, so he can finally love you. It’s the same dynamic as with your mother.

    Don’t beat yourself up for this, Candice, but just be aware of it. Your childhood wound is what makes you attracted to these  lousy men who are unable to love you. You are hoping and trying, believing their lies, believing it’s your fault that they can’t love you…  because that’s what the little girl in you believes: that it’s her fault that her mother doesn’t love her. That she isn’t worthy enough, that she is trash.

    I hate myself for still loving him. I feel like trash for still having feelings for someone who treated me like trash.

    Let’s rephrase this: The little girl in you still has the need to be loved, and she is willing to do anything to get love from someone who reminds her of her mother. Don’t blame her for loving him, rather – heal her. Instead of helping this unworthy men “heal”, you’d need heal her first.

    He is 10 minutes away from me. I don’t trust that I will be strong enough to stay away, as everyone keeps telling me to do.

    The little girl most probably won’t be strong enough. That’s why you, the adult Candice, should help her and reassure her. You’d need to give her love, so that she isn’t craving it from unworthy men.

    How does this sound to you?

    I just want to add – good that you’re getting tested for STD.

    And I am also glad your feelings for S have mostly resolved, and that you’ve realized you don’t need him in your life.

     

    in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386436
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    His mother basically dumped him when he was little and his father eloped shortly after he was born if I remember correctly, so he was raised by his grandparents.

    So he was almost an orphan.

    Not sure if this affected anything though.

    It almost certainly contributed to his possessiveness. And it could be that you sympathized with him, because you too were abandoned by your father when you were very young. You two are similar in that sense, only you had the luck that you had a loving and caring mother, and he didn’t.

    It seems to me that you took pity on him, but also saw yourself in him. As you were caring for him, you probably were also caring for your own inner child – the little boy who was abandoned by his father. You didn’t want to be like your father, so you could never abandon him. That’s why loyalty was so important to you.

    So it’s not that you didn’t have a healthy model of love, as I assumed earlier (you did, thanks to your mother), but rather, you loved him as your own child, because you recognized yourself in him.

    Does that make sense?

     

    in reply to: Help me make sense of this. #386433
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    Ah, nothing outside of the average child’s mischief.

    Good, so you don’t feel guilty about having caused her pain, or anything like that?

    It’s just that not all mothers are as caring and involved.

    Do you know of a mother who hasn’t been too caring and involved with their children?

    Perhaps I’ve been trying to copy the traits my mother displayed during my upbringing, the absolute loyalty and utmost care no matter what, bearing with everything. While such behavior is only natural when directed towards your children, I guess one has to be more assertive with friends and lovers.

    Right. It could be that you behaved like an unconditionally loving mother with your former friend. You tolerated everything. You remained loyal, “no matter what”. Perhaps you took pity on him because his mother wasn’t loving and caring?

     

Viewing 15 posts - 1,111 through 1,125 (of 1,942 total)