December 3, 2018 at 5:00 am #267511
You are a fascinating woman, never met or communicated with anyone like you. It takes a lot of time and effort for me to understand you, a process that is still ongoing- after submitting the post to you yesterday, I thought to myself: I don’t think it gets to the point of men criticizing Lisa, relationships don’t start before any criticism is expressed (which is different from what I suggested to you in the post). But then, still thinking to myself, I thought maybe Lisa is imagining men are criticizing her in their thoughts.
Next, this morning, I read your recent post and I am learning something new- it is not that you are afraid of men’s criticism of you, be it expressed or imagined, it is that you are greatly distressed about men not caring enough to criticize you, to bother to criticize you!
You wrote regarding men: “I am basically non existent to them and don’t think they would love or hate me enough to have any strong opinion… In my daydreaming the men I am involved with are critical of me… the criticism is constructive. They criticize me to help me. In reality they don’t care. So I have to say in my fantasies I am criticized but it is usually because they feel strongly towards me”.
But how would a man care for you if there was no relationship, not even a beginning? Do you mean that no man has fallen in love with you based on the visual of you, just seeing you, a fast beating of the heart event that would motivate the man to pursue you? Do you mean that no man has ever pursued you at all, didn’t ask you to have dinner with him or go to the movies, or take a walk with him in the park, no such thing?
You wrote regarding your experience with your family: “I felt as if I was only cared about because I existed and not because they felt I was anyone special”- your family members on the other hand (unlike men in your life as a teenager and adult) did have interactions with you, they were there in the same house but they didn’t recognize you as someone special, instead they saw you as something that existed, that is all.
“I feel like I have to show inferiority just to be allowed to be in the room and steal the crumbs off the floor. Of course I highly resent this and express my frustration so it’s a no win situation for me”- I think that this is true to your life as a child and now, throughout, correct?
So you have been invisible as anything more than something that existed and you were expected to behave as an inferior, in your childhood home and since?
December 3, 2018 at 5:59 am #267521
- This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by anita.
Regarding the last sentence in your recent post: “Men are not afraid of me Anita but saying so clears them of how they really feel which is after I really speak… nothing”, I have two questions to you that I feel are important:
1. “but saying so”- do you mean men have told you that they are afraid of you?
2. And what do you mean by “after I really speak”- what have you spoken to men before they felt nothing?
anitaDecember 3, 2018 at 7:29 pm #267663
Anita I want to reply to your previous post but I am a little tired and will post tomorrow. I would like to answer the two questions you asked me though.
1. “But saying so” I was speaking in a general way to a belief that the “answer to my problem” is that I cause men to be afraid of me I feel that general belief lifts any accountability on them for seeing me as someone they had no use for unless they were in need of someone to help them with thier families and I certainly wasn’t the wife or the mother. I was the helper. I feel so powerless that I feel my only power is to speak the truth.
2. “After I really speak” means after I say what is truly on my mind. I feel some men resent my having an opinion but I have also have toned it down and then I get the label of “really nice person” but it gets me no where. Things just go on the same whether sad, mad or glad. It is this reason that I get mad. No amount of effort changes my situation and then I am sad which turns to feeling mad..
I am really tired Anita. I am not even sure I answered your questions correctly
I will post again tommorow.
LisaDecember 4, 2018 at 7:31 am #267703
Thank you for answering my questions even though you are so tired. You’ve always been responsible this way, replying no matter how tired you were, even sick. Why don’t you take your time and if and when you feel fresh enough, and if you choose at all to answer me, please do:
In regard to question #1; did men tell you that they are afraid of you, did men say something like: I am scared of you, or you scare me?
In regard to question #2; can you give a couple of examples of what you said to men as you expressed what was truly on your mind, what opinions you expressed to them (“I say what is truly on my mind. I feel some men resent my having an opinion”)
anitaDecember 5, 2018 at 8:10 pm #268023
I wrote half of explaining my work tonight but I deleted it. I am just so tired of explaining weird injustices. I will try to condense. Computer I was on was acting up. I switched computers with a co worker and he had no trouble and later my second computer acted up.
My manager earlier told me I pushed the wrong button on my screen and I knew for a fact I hadn’t. She said it in a way that was commanding like telling me to admit that an apple is an orange. I protested and said no I did not…yes you did…no I did not..I know what I pushed. I was in a very good mood tonight and I am braver when I am in a good mood. There was a person in front of us who told me after she left that I had pushed the right button. Innocently asking for help and talk to with so much annoyance. I finally switched the computer and then a half an hour later the new one I was on acted up. What is the explanation for a glitch to follow me to another computer? I started to get paranoid.like someone was tring to sabotage me, my work. I have always had electricity in my body but I wonder if the cold effects my hands and the screen or maybe I have healing hands? I am looking for why my computer is acting up.
I went on again but I have to vent.December 5, 2018 at 8:27 pm #268025
All I can say is that I go into work with a friendly mindset. I go out the door with a focus on being friendly. I am bullied by the latest person who wants to gaslight me, surrounded by people loved by others who have no idea why the computers just happen to be going wrong when I am in front of them and evety time I tried to show someone they would work fine. People walk away and then they act up again. You wonder why I feel I got something following me around causing havoc. There is no logical explanation for a computer only having a problem with me alone and then working fine when I try to show someone. My increased frustration although I did my best to make light of it shows. I tried to do someone a favor on the way home tonight only to be questioned about it in a condescending way. I’m done. I’m tired. I didn’t DO one thing tonight to cause any of the problems I experienced. I didn’t do one thing to get the attitudes I got. I have been on a mission to look out for myself these past two weeks and I wonder if people get angry when I obtain my goals at work or life?
Was in a optimistic mood but now just tired.
December 6, 2018 at 5:21 am #268081
- This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by Lisa.
More bad experiences, it is amazing how many distressing experiences one can have and still live to tell about them. I mean, this is daily, often multiple times a day. It is so not only in your case, but in mine as well, that is, feeling distressed so often, day after day, year after year, and I too lived to tell about it, right here.
In your recent posts I see the Lisa who speaks her mind: No, I didn’t (push the button)! She doesn’t submit, she speaks her mind! But she also gets exhausted because that is what distress does, it exhausts us.
anitaDecember 9, 2018 at 8:56 am #268463
Because I don’t see people as “moody” or “that’s just the way they are” I have to come up with a reason for their behaivor because I always believe there is a reason behind everything. It’s hard for me to rationally address something I find irrational. Others can calmly say like “I don’t like it when you speak to me that way,” and don’t bother to wonder why someone is speaking “that way” to them. I have to know why and if I can not come up with a logical answer then it just must be me. There is something wrong with me otherwise this makes no sense and why would someone who is irrational be in the position of authority that they are in?
I often think it is because they put on a different tone or voice depending on whom they are speaking with.
Anyway, much to work on but I have to get through my work today first.
December 9, 2018 at 10:49 am #268485
- This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by Lisa.
“why would someone who is irrational be in the position of authority that they are in?”, you wrote. I would like to read your thoughts about it when you have the time.
anitaDecember 10, 2018 at 6:12 pm #268799
I would imagine they pick and choose with whom they are irrational. If they were irrational with everyone they wouldn’t go far. I say why not be rational with everyone instead of just those you put on a pedestal or those who can do something for you?
I believe in democracy but I do believe that people should be expected to at least treat everyone well.
Every time I read up on things I need to work on I ask myself…well what about Bridezillas? I am not even close to being that spoiled and yet everyone works hard to give them what they want and they are often rude, demanding, unfriendly….the only thing I can come up with is that all involved are working on a very basic level that has nothing to do with enlightenment or an awakening.
Oh how I wish I didn’t “see” so much. I would be loved, liked…
There is a line in a Beatle’s song that I love:
“Living is easy with eyes closed.”December 11, 2018 at 5:59 am #268829
“Oh how I wish I didn’t ‘see’ so much. I would be loved, liked… ‘Living is easy with eyes closed'”-
I learned in my life that there is that when I see things correctly, then there is more to see. Here is a way to know if you see things correctly: if there is still more to see. If there is no more to see, if you think you understand it all, the way it is, case closed, nothing more to see, then there is something incorrect in that seeing.
An example in my life: I used to think that people are trying to hurt me, often, that this is their intent. I still hear that voice in my head warning me, that someone is angry at me and will take their revenge soon. I was stuck seeing that and only that, hoping again and again for something different, but.. nope, nothing different happened, I saw nothing new.
Until I did. I finally saw that it was my mother who was angry with me and it was she who took her revenge, again and again and yet, again. And I saw that all the people I feared, none bothered to punish me, not even close to her passion to punish me and humiliate me.
So over time, I realized not everyone is my mother, that she is only one person. Sure, there are cruel people out there, but in my personal life, I didn’t encounter one who was cruel to me anywhere close to the extent that she was.
In summary, I saw my mother in everyone and thought I saw all there is to see. Now I see people, this and that individual. I see individuals.
anitaDecember 13, 2018 at 6:47 pm #269207
There has to be some situations where there is no more to see and seeing a situation correctly but I agree that there are many more situations than not where there is more to see.
I am sorry for your experience with your mother. I understand what you are saying by thinking everyone is just like the person or people who wronged you or hurt you.
I can think of the person who used me, the one who was always angry at me, the one who stayed out of my life, the one who I couldn’t depend on, the one who made me feel bad about myself, the ones who humiliated me, the ones who rejected me and compared me unfavourably to someone else…Everyone I meet are one of these people and I react to them the way I would react to them when I first experienced the hurt they caused me.
I am stuck
I am immature.
Again I am sorry for your experience. Back then it just felt like everyone I came in contact with rejected me, put up with me or was annoyed with me until I just decided to stay in my room as much as I possibly could.
I never matured. I was forced to go out and make money in my extremely immature state and I am not surprised by all the hurt and bumps in the road I endured. I am also not surprised at what others had to endure from me. Having pmdd only magnified my unfortunate situation but ultimately my problem was that I was/ am immature and stuck possibly in the age I decided to drop out of life. Around 11 or 12. I am mentally healthy in that I know what is real and what isn’t which had probaly contributed to my sadness. If I was delusional really I don’t think I would cry as much as I do or seek help as much as I do. I am not emotionally healthy though. I am quite immature and that has contributed to me not knowing how to really help myself physically or emotionally.
The reality is I do not have the slightest clue how to start a relationship let alone maintain one.
Socially I believe I see things clearly on a human level, Philosophically and spiritually, I am up for anything but emotionally I am not seeing clearly at all.
At the risk of taking a backward steps it did feel overwhelming when I was younger. It did feel that I was just an annoyance. The overall feeling, I can give “moments” when I felt loved but overall I felt like I showed up to a party I wasn’t invited to.
Thank you Anita,
If ypu need clarity on anything let me know? I know what I want to say in my head but not sure if it came across well in my post.December 14, 2018 at 7:05 am #269263
Yes, I suppose you are correct, there are “some situations where there is no more to see and seeing a situation correctly”. Sometimes I get caught in the all-or-nothing thinking.
Thank you for the empathy.
What I learned following a very damaging childhood is that when you enter adult life, with no healing from that damage, is that as an adult, I came across people who took advantage of my lack of mental health, using me because it was possible. And people who didn’t use me, most if not all (for most of my life), didn’t want to have anything to do with me, not wanting to bother with someone who was unwell.
And so, my adulthood experiences were not good, nothing that could help me heal from said damage.
It took so long, decades, before someone thought of me as a person of value, beyond the value of using/ taking advantage of me. It took decades before anyone decent wanted to get involved with me, being as unwell as I was.
Basically, coming out of a damaging childhood, what is open to a person is … further deterioration. It is a tragic reality. Seems like it takes a miracle.
Regarding your last two lines of your recent post: you come across clearly to me, I believe. Add anything you want, if you want to come across more clearly though. Your thoughts and feelings are welcomed here, by me.
anitaDecember 15, 2018 at 10:29 pm #269399
Anita I want to comment on your post but I have a strong feeling right now that I am going to be put into a situation that will make me extremely uncomfortable and hurt. I am in a panic right now because I can not depend on people having compassion for me. I am sorry to be vague. Just let me be vague because I can not talk about it right now. I am suspicious of something where people will force me to see someone who hurt me and I know I will be expected to be fine and pretend everything is fine. I am not even sure if this scenario I am thinking is going to happen but I know these people well enough to know how easily my feelings are put aside.
I am also upset because I have to go to work early and can not get to sleep. I can feel myself getting worked up.
I think reading about people attacking women for calling attention to things from the past that were not romantic but were presented as being romantic has unnerved me. The admiration for the atrocious people in power by women no less has unnerved me. I will be fine though and all of this unsettling bullying will be defeated.
I am sorry, I am scared right now. I am strong when I am away from most. I have always felt the closer I get to the group the weaker I feel. I have always felt like that. Being part of a circle has never been attractive to me because I am weak in a group and stronger without.December 16, 2018 at 5:57 am #269419
I sure hope you slept some last night. I wish you weren’t worked up but calm and peaceful instead. Calm and peaceful, that would be wonderful for you.
It is your thoughts that kept you worked up. I think that you kept your post vague because you were afraid that the thoughts being typed into the screen will make bad things happen to you, specifically the scenario you fear.
But thoughts in themselves are not dangerous. Thoughts don’t make things happen; actions make things happen.
Problem is fear and anger travel in thoughts, so the more you think about a scary scenario, the more fear and/ or anger you feel, getting worked up.
The scenario you feared last night was that “people will force me to see someone who hurt me and .. I will be expected to be find and pretend everything is fine”. I suppose a scenario like that already happened in your young life, maybe many times, and the experience got activated in your brain last night.
I remember very well my own experience of years and decades of pretending everything is fine. I never thought I did a good job of it, imagining people can tell what I was thinking and feeling and blamed me for it, thinking little of me, humiliating me in their own minds. I thought people can read my mind, and I felt so very uncomfortable in my own skin.
- This reply was modified 2 months ago by anita.