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Being better at accepting depression

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  • #267939
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    You didn’t understand a couple of things regarding my recent post to you, so please pay attention, because this may be important:

    1. Regarding the  positive affirmations, particularly about your self  worth, it is not about “journaling daily at least a few short sentences about evidence of my worth”. The affirmations have nothing to do with evidence, it is simply stating that you are worthy with conviction and with calming music. It is about the repetition of those statements vocally, you hear them and repeat, with conviction, that is, with emotion. And doing so when relaxed, following and during slow breathing/ calming  music.

    See, when the belief that you were unworthy took hold in you, it was not following evidence, same with this exercise, it is not about evidence.

    2. Regarding my suggestion of Moderation, I didn’t mean this that you should take advantage of the Up times and accomplish as much as possible (“I’ve been aware if this for a couple years now and try my best to use any burst of good feelings to get things done for those few days”). No. I meant to talk yourself out of those bursts, to lower your energy levels during those ups. Because if you don’t, there is a price to pay for each of those ups. Keep yourself moderated and there will be no significant ups and no significant lows.

    anita

     

    #268773
    noname
    Participant

    Anita,

    I understand how the affirmations should work the way you explained it, without the need for evidence because the belief that i’m worthless is not supported with evidence.

    I  asked myself the question who does it serve for me to feel worthless? It only serves to facilitate the cycle of consumption where a person feels worthless>coping with consumption (i.e. drugs, sex, overeating, material things etc.)>effects wear off & the cycle restarts.

    I think what i need is to intervene in this cycle with compassion instead of consumption. When i feel worthless is when i make decisions that will continue to support that belief because I lack the compassion for myself to let myself feel worthy, to feel deserving of love, to feel important to others & the planet. Instead i’m very hard on myself and think of myself as unneeded and a drain on others (consumption mindset where i take and am non-generative).

    I think above all else i feel worthless because i feel unimportant and disconnected. These intense feelings of disconnection are not unique to me either, society sells us a lie that we are alien from each-other and our planet when in fact we ARE our environment and live in symbiotic relationships with it.

    This is where im getting hung up, as much as i’ve read up on buddhism and listened to hours of Alan Watts lectures on this topic of the false sense of self, i could never grasp the concept on a feeling level until lately. I realize that you are as much me as i you, and the trees, and the animals. Being able to feel this non-duality is of course difficult because of our egos. This is leading me to believe i can find this connection i’ve been searching for for so long right here alone with my “self” because i have fooled myself with the help of society and ego into believing im disconnected from this world i live in. I’ve been thinking on this concept more and more the last few weeks, and find that it might be the single most important topic for me to understand.

    So i have been thinking to myself how can i live in a way that i’m more connected. Socially i still struggle with feeling like a burden because i cant see the ways in which i give love as legitimate. I forget how good it makes me feel when someone trusts me enough to ask for help. When i’m unaware that being vulnerable and asking for help is beneficial for everyone involved, I wont ask for help. I also forget i’m not alone when it comes to my anxieties and that seeking to help others will help me feel connected and worthy.

    I try to conserve and use at little amount of resources i can, but i think i can do more for the planet. I think coming up with a way to care for the natural places i love to visit might be a way for me to live in a more connected way with nature. I love growing plants for this reason because the fruits are a product of love and my connection to the plant.

    Lastly i need to check in with myself more often and work on being more mindful of the non-dualistic reality. I think meditation could be good for reconnecting with myself. Reminding my self that feelings and thoughts are just as much a part of me as my arms and legs and my entire nervous system, they are one not separate.

    My hope is that through the mind-body connection I can help regulate my mood better and stop going through such intense cycles of up and down. Im sure none of this is new to you, me either, I think with me I need to be reminded of this connection when i feel down, and writing about it here and being able to come back and re read it is a good way to do that.

     

    #268779
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    I might be able  to read and reply to your thread in a few hours, if  not, I  will tomorrow  morning, in about fifteen hours from now.

    anita

    #268819
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    You wrote six days ago that you were thinking of “journaling daily at  least a few short sentences about evidence of my worth”, and yesterday, first paragraph: “the  belief that I’m worthless is not supported with evidence”. Notice how you know, and you don’t know that evidence is not the issue.

    For a child, the evidence of his worth is what he sees in his parents’ faces. Our eyes then and now are located in such a way that we  don’t see our own faces unless we look at a mirror. The child’s mirror is his  parent’s face. Problem is most children are looking  at very distorted  mirrors.

    I like your “compassion instead of consumption” principle, it even sounds right to say it out loud. I can see it as a title of a chapter  in a book you might put together one day. You wrote: “to feel  important to others & the planet”. I used  to believe that it  will take the whole world acknowledging my  worth so that I could  feel worthy. What  I learned is  that it only takes ONE PERSON to see my  worth, and  for me to  see my reflection in that  one  face. Problem is, a child does not question the face of his parent. If that face shows the child is worthy, the  child will automatically and unquestionably believe it. But when a  child sees unworthiness in the face  of his parent for years, as an adult coming across faces who  do show his worth, the adult child has the image of the parent’s face transposed over those faces, the same old, same old distorted mirror.

    It takes seeing, really seeing that one face of one person who believes you are worthy.

    Regarding non-duality and connectedness, it makes sense to me in context of one’s self worth this way: noname’s worth is not about what he does, disconnected from the world, proving to the world, showing to the world, convincing the world that he  is  worthy. His worth is something he was born with and will  die with. It is natural, a reality, something real and  undeniable. It was never a question except in the minds  of those disconnected.

    anita

    #269797
    noname
    Participant

    Anita

    While I have been feeling well, I am still having trouble coping with the empty feeling that comes along with being without a deep connection to a person. I keep having these breakdowns while trying to sleep and trying to get out of bed. To me it feels like an attachment pain, like the same feeling when you lose someone, right below my heart. I hope the pain will subside eventually. I feel in my body and heart I’m still worthless, I try to think my way out of the pain telling myself I’m worthy, lovable, and strong but the pain wont cease. It’s a desire to be held.

    I know I’ll never have everything I need all of the time. And I’m grateful for the love I do have in my life but even as I’m staying at home with my whole family at my sister’s house for the holidays I feel I have no one I can be real with. I cant remember the last time someone witnessed my sadness. I want to be held but I think being heard and seen would be enough right now.

    I don’t know what else I can do that I’m not doing, I’m so confused right now. I dont know if I should be intentional in finding these connections I need to feel loved and cared for or if my trying is the reason deep connection with other people is eluding me. It’s just so painful I’ve been crying like a newborn baby.

    #269863
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    For a few days I’ve been preparing a post for you based on all  your thread. At one point  I thought of it as my Christmas gift to you.  You wrote in your recent post, “I want to  be held but I think being heard and seen would be enough right now”. Maybe, maybe my following post to you (I have it ready, will be copying and pasting it to you next) will be that “being heard and seen” wish come true for you. I sure hope so. Here  it is:

    The Loneliness/ Lack of love, Then and Now:

    “Growing up my mom was very depressed and my dad had anger  issues, one of my strongest memories from childhood was my dad telling  me and my sister it was ‘our job to keep our mother happy’… trying to keep my mom happy and  my dad calm was a very exhausting task… The majority of my childhood was spent in isolation while my mom was depressed, and my dad worked way too much”. When you talked to your mother as an adult, last year, “she cried a little bit…  and regretted leaving  me alone so much as a kid and not hugging or showing affection towards me.. she said she  looks back at pictures from my childhood and it’s clear to her how sad I was”.

    And sad you were and are, a whole lot of the time: “at the end of the day when it’s time to sleep I feel alone, and when I wake up I feel alone and struggle to get myself out of bed knowing I may not speak to another human being  the whole day”- as adults, we keep reliving our childhood experience.

    The lack of love in your childhood gave birth to an immediate, and  overwhelming need for  love: “I still feel the overwhelming  need for love from other people… the  need is immediate, and overwhelming”. You lived, as a child, hoping and dreaming that tomorrow you might be loved, “I’m so sick of just living with hopes that tomorrow might be the day. I’m becoming impatient, and childish in that respect”.

    Frustrated with this never satisfied need, you wrote: “Maybe I’m far  too attached the idea that companionship, intimacy, and closeness is a real possibility for me… I think my  need for love is possibly too tall an order to for my self or anyone else to fill”. So intense was your loneliness, your aloneness, being  disconnected, that  the  craving  for togetherness, for closeness became equally as intense.

    It still is, this is why time alone, not being  busy, is so difficult for you, so depressing- when alone and not busy, you are not distracted from that same feeling  of childhood, that acute loneliness, of not being connected: “I am very lonely.. I was suppressing my loneliness with work, school… I just don’t feel  comfortable unless I’m stressed and busy to the limit… I absolutely cannot wait to return to  work, just to have something to help pass the time and have some social contact with people on a regular basis however superficial it may be”.

    You wrote: “I can feel the rush similar to a drug when I authentically connect with someone, and that feeling gives me confidence and lasts for days depending on How vulnerable the experience was”- as social animals, like other social animals, when we connect, pleasurable chemicals are released in our brains/ bodies. When disconnected, other chemicals are released, such that bring about distress that motivates us to find the connection that our biology believes is necessary for our survival. This is why you tried so hard, and still, to connect.

    The Disassociation, Then and Now:

    You wrote: “lately I’ve been noticing the mannerisms of children… I noticed that it seems as if they  have a  natural curiosity and enchantment about life, the most trivial things are  amusing  to them and their emotional expressions are more genuine. I then take a look at myself at 25 I feel completely spent and forcing myself through life”.

    The disassociation happened in childhood: “I always tell people when they ask about my childhood that i was the adult in the house, in the sense that i took care of everyone’s feelings and acted as a mediator on many occasions, I was very calculated in expressing my emotions which honestly i can barely remember doing”-

    – you were “very calculated”, your emotions pushed down, locked in, but not perfectly. “The spark is still there”, you wrote, and you can still feel it sometimes.

    Connection Now:

    You adjusted best you could to the world of your childhood, the  home where you grew up. The adjustment was  about minimizing any  kind of excitation, be  it joy or anger, and settling into a manageable, no-excitation, calculated and depressed state of mind.  So now you see your mother and your father and you don’t feel much. So you may think: problem-solved/resolved, or problem-gone. But not so, the hurt and  the anger get activated in  the context  of your interactions with other people, people who are not your parents, in professional and personal contexts.

    “Attempting to get close to a woman is seriously the scariest thing in my life, it brings up feelings of worthlessness, and quickly makes me feel hopeless with any amount of rejection”-

    – because your valid hurt and anger in context of your home is not gone and  you are afraid of more of the same. The sexual element of dating women is an added desire to connect, but it doesn’t change the pre-existing dynamic I suggested here.

    Here are the problems that I believe have been blocking your healing  from that very, very lonely childhood:

    1. You expressed your belief that your mother/parents loved you when you were a child (“I know my parents loved me as a child”). Unfortunately, the great majority of your childhood, they did not: your father was  not there physically and your mother was severely  depressed. There is no love in absence, be it physical or emotional.

    If your mother loved you, she would  have noticed that you were sad. “she said she  looks back at pictures from my childhood and it’s clear to her how sad I was”- she didn’t notice you were sad before looking at these photos, day after day, months… year after year when you were not a photograph, but a living, breathing child?

    I am sure she felt affection for you at times, but seems like rarely. I suppose she  was severely depressed, and  when people are severely depressed, they  do not feel affection.

    You wrote about your mother regarding last year: “she tends to start to tell me about her problems because my dad wont listen”- she doesn’t know yet (true to 2017) that your life should no longer be about her.

    This belief that your mother and father loved you but you failed to receive it, or that your need for love was too much for anyone to fulfill it are incorrect beliefs, and are in the way of your healing. It led you to more incorrect beliefs: that your need for love is exaggerated, that you don’t deserve  love (“I still don’t feel deserving of love even though I always preach that all people are deserving of love”), that there is something  wrong with you, that it is your job to take care  of others (“I always felt as if its my job to care for others”) and so on.

    Healing is about correcting  incorrect core beliefs. Correcting one belief leads to correcting more incorrect beliefs that were built on top of the first.

    2. You feel “guilty blaming (your) parents sometimes, because they had their own issues, and I know they did their best… it makes me feel guilty to criticize my parents in the slightest because i know they came from nothing and tried the best they could.”- healing is not about you sitting in a position of a godly judgment and sending your parents in judgment and sending them to heaven or hell. Healing is about seeing how your troubles came about so that you can feel better long term and function better.

    It is about no longer directing your anger against the victim of your childhood, you and directing your  anger instead at those who victimized you.

    Whether they did their best or what their childhoods were  like is immaterial to the following undisputable fact: within the context of you and your parents, you were the victim.

    Healing is about departing from convenient thinking such as: “I’m still grateful for them and  wouldn’t have  it any other way”- really? You mean, you would choose to have your painful  childhood all over again?

    You don’t feel that you have a current problem with your mother: “My mom is not stressing me right now, and I’m not worried about it either, she’ll be okay”. This is because you adjusted to being with her, minimizing your negative (and any) excitation when in her presence. But she is stressing you, only the stress appears in a different context, the context of your life outside your interactions with your mother, or your thoughts about. I will italicize this context in the whole quote here: “My mom is not stressing me right now, and I’m not worried about it either, shell be okay she made it this long. What is stressing me is this empty lonely anxious feeling that doesn’t seem to let up. It rests in my stomach throughout the day. It’s the feeling right before I have a breakdown but it’s right at the surface.

    4. You wrote that if you feel empathetic toward yourself,  you will  be giving yourself “permission to keep making the same mistakes”, and that this is when you “feel like giving up on trying the most”. You wrote: “I have pretty much always struggled with perfectionism, it was the reason I was/ am so   hard on myself, I was a very well mannered child, excellent student, overachiever etc. I did this because I always thought if I could discipline myself it would make my parents life easier… and it caused me to  be hypervigilant of any imperfection I had which led to me starting to self harm out of frustration of never being ‘good enough'”

    You figured early on that you must discipline yourself and that self discipline meant holding a punishing whip over yourself and bringing  it down on yourself whenever you don’t operate  perfectly. In that kind of discipline there is  no place for empathy, it is the power of the whip that is supposed to motivate you to perform perfectly, no mistakes.

    I think that a big part of you believes that this kind of discipline worked before: “I have always been the most composed rock solid person in my family, at work, or with friends”.

    Here are examples of what that one holding the whip (that aggressive, no-empathy inner critic) is telling you in this current 2018  thread, June (words of the inner critic as I imagine them are in parentheses following some of the quoted examples):

    “I think to myself ‘you’ve done all this therapy, read all these books, tried all these groups and shit ain’t working for you. You’ve even expanded your social circle from scratch, but you’re still lonely and unlovable obviously, that’s why you’ve slept alone 99.9% of your life”-  (You are a failure, nothing is working for you, all the things that are supposed to work for you,  nothing  works! Because you are a screw up! Something  is terribly wrong with you, whip! whip!)

    “it made me feel growing up as if I was doing something wrong because i wasn’t happy but according to my parents growing up our home life was ‘fine’” (you are unhappy because there is something wrong with you! There was nothing wrong with your childhood, there is something  wrong with you! Whip! whip!)

    “My number of partners is miserably low for someone my age”

    “I struggle with being empathetic with myself out of fear of feeling sorry for myself” (so you are going to feel sorry for yourself? Whip! Whip!)

    “At the same time it sounds like an excuse to me to be sad because I need human connection…I don’t know if my sadness is justified. It’s so hard for me to let myself cry for myself I was always told not to be a victim. I don’t know if I’m just being lazy or if I really have a reason to be sad.” (You are not a victim, you are a cry baby, full of excuses, unjustified, lazy! whip! whip!)

    “I find myself unable to resist giving into the shame, and agreeing with the voice in my head telling me I’m worthless because I couldn’t accomplish something”. (You are worthless! You couldn’t do  it, could you, make your mother happy! It was your job and you screwed up! Whip! Whip!)

    * Healing has to include the fundamental change of your self  discipline policy from aggressive (whipping yourself) to empathetic and assertive, guiding  yourself through life empathetically, kindly, gently.

    It will be the effective way to go, the way for you to perform best,  to function most effectively, least mistakes.

    anita

    #269943
    noname
    Participant

    Anita

    First of all thank you so much for thinking of me even when I’m not asking for attention. You have been a direct influence on my healing. You are teaching me how to love myself through your love, despite never having met you I am grateful to have crossed paths with you here and hope to be as insightful as you one day. I just really want you to know that I feel the love every time you respond and it gives me hope. Thank you Anita for being there for me through my difficulties and challenging me.

    1. It is still difficult for me to accept that my parents didn’t love me as a child. They provided me with a false definition of love one that consisted soley of basic needs, but as an adult and through your guidance I realize I lost out on love as a child because I had emotional needs that were never met.

    2. As far as guilt for blaming my parents, yes I’m still struggling with that, and I realize it is not helping me. It frustrates the hell out of me when people credit my parents they’ve never met for my accomplishments. I typically dont correct them, essentially supporting this belief that it’s my fault for turning out this way. I try my best to sugar coat the bullshit that happened in my childhood, but it still stinks regardless. As a therapist I sometimes compare myself to my clients who may have had “worse” struggles than me, when they’re not really any better or worse just different. When I compare my struggles to others I feel shame.

    3. I still struggle with awareness of how my relationship with my parents and mother in particular affects me now. It’s hard for me to make the connection on a feeling level that when I’m on a date for example if I cannot help the woman or make her happy I consider myself a failure. This is probably the wound that presents itself most often and ironically has been the hardest one to recognize in the moment. I struggle with dating because I’m uncomfortable with knowing I may not be what the other person is looking for, so I blame myself for not being enough.

    4. I thought I had made peace with my inner critic but apparently not. I dont even recognize some of the subtle ways I shame myself like you wrote above. My inner critic has a very polite way of being a jerk to me it seems. I think my inner parent needs to be assertively empathetically corrective with this kind of subtle shaming because it is so pervasive in my thinking. I have been trying to lately to see that hurt child in me and telling him either in my head or sometimes even out loud that “I got your back no matter what, I will take of you” my hope is that by visualizing my hurt inner child everytime I’m in pain i can eventually grow that empathy to include all of my selves including my present self.

     

    #269951
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    What a precious first paragraph! If my printer worked, I would print it on a nice paper and put it in a  frame, on the  wall. So beautiful, makes me feel nice and warm.  Thank you for it!

    Regarding blaming your mother, again, she was severely depressed for a long, long time. Maybe she still is. So she wasn’t available to see you, to notice you, to feel affection when she did notice you and to attend to your well being, to ask: how are you? (he most common question strangers ask, she didn’t ask, did she)

    Problem for you as a child  is that you naturally concluded that you failed her, that you were “not being enough“, especially since your father told  you to make her happy, gave you that job, something you remember so clearly because it was so meaningful to you, it really was a job that  you took on most seriously.

    “I struggle  with dating because I’m uncomfortable with knowing I may not be what the  other person is looking  for, so I blame myself for not being  enough“.

    Not-being-enough is the  legacy your mother left  you with for being depressed on and on and on, not noticing you, and your father for giving you the impossible job to make her happy… neither one of them put you as a high priority in their lives.

    So you keep feeling  and  believing that you are  not enough and there is no easy way to change this core belief. It really is a process of making  new brain connections, new pathways to infiltrate t he old and  it takes unbelievable  amount of persistence and  patience.

    Keep stating  the truth to yourself every time you notice the untruth has been stated or suggested by the part of you that believes what is not true.

    Regarding: “I sometimes compare myself to my clients who may have had ‘worse’ struggles than me”- not true. A child experiencing X, does not have another’s Y experience  to  compare. He only  has X and  it feels badly, no comparisons. Later one hears  of Y and retroactively compares, a useless, academic like comparison that really is unprofessional because again, the child has only X and doesn’t feel better (not!) knowing another’s Y experience.

    If I understood correctly you are staying at your mother’s and sister’s place at the moment, for the holidays, another week  or so, or  for the rest  of this year? If so, it might be  an opportunity to practice something, don’t know yet what it would be.

    anita

    #269965
    noname
    Participant

    Anita

    Yes that is correct I’m staying at my sister’s house until after Christmas. The only reason I’m here right now and not at my house is because my dad had ankle surgery and cant bear weight on his leg for a few weeks, so he is staying here at my sister’s house. So my whole family plus my sister’s boyfriend are here right now.

    My sister was going to take care of him this week but had to work, so I decided she needs a break from my parents so I stepped up and am staying with him this week. I’m also rebuilding my old car that blew up last year while my dad had a restraining order against my mom.

    This is a difficult situation caring for someone who has hurt me and my family so much, but he has no one else to take of him. Funny how that works.

    II hear your statement about building new pathways in my brain. I think when I became aware of my issues I thought the work was done, not realizing just how deeply ingrained these beliefs are. Just like any other goal I want though I realize I’ll have to work for peace of mind and compassion and it may take time, but I’m committed to it nonetheless.

    #269971
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    Is your mother there too, with your father, sister, sister’s boyfriend and you?

    I wonder why your father had a restraining order against your mother.

    anita

     

    #269973
    noname
    Participant

    Yes that is correct my mom & dad are sleeping in seperate rooms right next to each other.

    My mom had a restraining order against him after they decided to get divorced last summer, he drug her out of the house (my childhood home) and beat her in the front yard. He got arrested and she stayed in the house until the restraining order was up (august 2017-January of 2018) and then moved with my sister.

    My engine in my car blew last year in August about a week or two after that incident, I was without a car until march of this year when I bought a car from my dad and started talking to him again reluctantly.

    #269977
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    I mentioned that perhaps this is an opportunity for you. Maybe it is. You are staying  in a home that is closest to the home of  your childhood: your mother is there, your father and your sister- the most influential people in your life, the … makers of those  neuropathways.

    Maybe the opportunity is for you to start a Word document, or take notes of thoughts and feelings that you notice as you see them, interact with them, pay attention and take notes. What  do you think?

    anita

    #270309
    noname
    Participant

    Anita

    Me and you are the same page. I saw this holiday break in the same way, an opportunity to observe myself and family functioning. I have noticed a few things after being here for a few days.

    In relation to my father, we have been working in his garage rebuilding my old car, he is limited to rolling around the garage in an office chair because of his injury. This definitely helps me feel safer around him that he’s injured because he can go from playful to a fit of rage in seconds it seems. When I was 16 and he punched me and knocked me out, it all started because we had a disagreement on what method to use to fix a part. I’ve noticed that he is very rigid in his thinking about how things should be done and when I accomplish a task using a different method than what he would’ve he’s humbled, but he is resistant to letting me try things the way I want to do them first, so i still appease him by following his instructions, mostly out of fear he will lose self control. I used to believe he was a good teacher but a good teacher doesn’t do the work for their students or else they will never learn, instead i realized I’m good at learning through observation and self teaching. Most of my growth with my mechanical skills came at times when he was absent. I’ve also noticed he is extremely anxious, injured sitting in a chair watching me work how I want is like torture to him, he will overload me with multiple sets of instructions or tasks because of his own anxiety when I tend to work more methodically and organized. His overly cluttered garage and house are a direct representation of the inside of his mind it seems. Me and my sister became minimalist once we moved from the chaos of our childhood home. I suspect both my parents anxiety is why I became so “quiet” because there was no room for my worries in the family. I also think with my dad in particular his inability to sit with himself is directly related to his anger outbursts over the years. I had to tell him yesterday “dad I do things differently than you, i dont move as fast, I do t have as much as experience, and I need this opportunity to learn for myself and I’ll ask for your help when I need it. This is also an opportunity for you to learn how to give up control” he was kind of taken back by that statement and hasn’t been as demanding around me since. I probably wouldn’t have said that if he wasn’t injured though, because I know he cant physically hurt me right now.

    My sister is the matriarch of our family she is the most punctual, prepared, and mentally stable out of all of us. I love being around my sister we still chase each other around the house like kids. My sister knows how to be  critical in a caring way, when my sister questions my actions it doesn’t feel the same as my mom or dad, I think because my sister trusts me that I will figure things out, my mom and dad are beginning to be more like that but still subtly treat me like I dont know anything about living life. I think “if you all have the secret of living why are you so miserable?” Its so confusing being around adults who don’t practice what they preach, I can only imagine how confused I was as a child. I feel for my sister she doesn’t stand up to my parents like I do, she keeps the peace but it costs her.

    My mom has expressed to me that she is proud of me for how I’ve changed this year, she didn’t understand why i stopped talking to her months back but she gets it now as shes been having issues with feeling Shamed by my grandmother. She didn’t realize she spreads her inner guilt and shame to me and my sister by saying things like “y’all need to go see you’re grandmother” while we already planning on seeing her, until me and my sister made my mom aware she was projecting. My mom seems more peaceful than I can ever remember and I believe it’s because she has been forced to look at herself, she doesn’t overstep her boundaries with me and my sister as much and is less co trolling.

    Overall it seems my family dynamic has been flipped on its head with me and my sister being the adults and my parents slowly detaching from their controlling ways as they are forced to clean out their own closets they no longer have me and my sister to use as scapegoats for their stresses.

    I’ve been focusing on breathing this week and being present. Its allowed me to not get sucked into my parents anxieties and focus on taking care of myself. I’ve also been trying to stay present to keep women and loneliness off my mind but it still comes up and torments me in my dreams. I woke up this morning and sobbed for a while after having a dream about a girl I have been interested in and went on a date with last week. You said something that stuck with me in this thread something like “just because one woman didn’t love you (mom) doesn’t mean no one can” I’ve been worried that I’ll never be able to be close enough to a woman to live with her, or that I wont be able to tolerate having a roommate again. I think that same logic applies just because I wasn’t able to be healthy living in my childhood home with my parents doesn’t mean I’m not able to live with a woman or other people and be healthy and have healthy relationships

    #270335
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    Interesting observations! I wasn’t aware of the severity of your father’s rage/ your fear of his rage.I didn’t include this factor, a powerful one, in my  understanding of you. I know from personal experience, having grown up with my raging mother,how harmful it  is.

    We lost power here since yesterday, a huge wind storm, unbelievably strong, still don’t have power and I was able to use  the internet only a little while ago thanks to a generator. I don’t  known how long the generator will function, have limited fuel for it. I normally get to the computer much earlier feeling fresh. I don’t  feel fresh  now.

    I want to re-read your post and any you may add to it tomorrow  morning if I do  have electricity, be it via  the generator with enough fuel. I want to read more  attentively. If you can,before  I am back, can you tell me more about  how you believe your father’s rage affected  you?

    anita

    #270421
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    I re-read your recent post. You wrote there: “I saw this holiday break in the same way, an opportunity to observe myself and family functioning”. I will make my own observation based on this recent post of yesterday:

    1. Your father still, as before, “can go from playful to a fit of rage in seconds” but he doesn’t punch you and knock you out like he did when you were 16 because now “he is limited to rolling around the garage in an office chair because of his injury”, so he can’t get up from his chair and hit you. He probably, when not injured, has a feel for his age progressing, being an older man while you are a younger man, which means he may not win if he  tries to punch him… maybe you will block his punch. Maybe punch him and no one wants to be punched.

    2. You are still trying to understand your father: “He is very rigid in his thinking… he is resistant… He is extremely anxious… His overly cluttered garage and house are a direct representation of the inside of his mind… his inability to sit with himself is directly related to his anger outbursts over the years”.

    2. You are still trying to teach him how to be a good father to you and how to be a mentally healthy person, you told him: “dad I  do things differently than you…  I need this opportunity to learn for  myself and  I’ll ask for your help when I need  it.  This is also an opportunity for you to learn how to give up control”.

    3. You believe you are somewhat successful in the above aim (#2): “he was kind of taken back by (your) statement and hasn’t been as demanding around me since”.

    4. In your home when you were a child, your parents were powerful and you and your sister were weak children yet the two  of you took on the adult roles, then and now. You, as indicated in #2, and your “sister is the matriarch of our family she is the most punctual, prepared and mentally stable out of all of us”.

    5. You “feel for my sister she  doesn’t stand up to my parents like I do”, but you and her are sitting down, so to speak, being at a lower status mentally, therefore sometimes you stand up to them.

    6. You still crave your mother’s approval, “My mom has expressed to me that she is proud of  me”.

    7. You are still trying to teach, fix and enlighten both your parents so that they will parent you well, as if you were still a child. You figure she didn’t realize then, but she realizes now: “she didn’t realize she  spreads her  inner guilt and shame to me”.

    You believe there  is progress in your mother’s mental well being and therefore she is just about to be able  to be a good mother to you: “My mom seems more peaceful that I can ever remember… she doesn’t overstep her boundaries with me and  my sister as much and is less controlling”.

    You and your sister were the adults as children and still, in the same way: trying to fix the parents so that they can parent you, still being children that way, see  my point?

    If you and your sister were adults, mentally, neither one of you would be investing any more time and effort and still hoping to be parented by these two people.

    ” Overall it seems my family dynamic has been flipped on its head with me and  my sister being  the  adults and  my parents slowly detaching  from their controlling ways as they are forced  to clean out their own closets they no longer have me and  my  sister to use as scapegoats for their stresses”-

    No, the family dynamic has not been flipped on its head, you and your sister, like before, are still “being the adults”, but not being adults.

    Again, adults give up on being parented, they are done trying to fix their parents, teaching them, instructing them, watching  for improvements and so forth.

    anita

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