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This topic contains 160 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  anita 2 hours, 44 minutes ago.

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  • #301093

    Cali Chica
    Participant

    well their brain always has stress and worry. they have so many problems. and my poor mom she is so sad sometimes. sometimes she is good with my dad and sometimes no.

    sometimes my dad brain really angry. they always want my sister and i to play – but then they also say “god all these kids do is play!!!”

    #301095

    anita
    Participant

    -they are confusing, aren’t they, telling you one thing, then they tell you the opposite.. they don’t make sense, do they?

    anita

    #301097

    Cali Chica
    Participant

    no they don’t. sometimes happy sometimes sad. sometimes do this, sometimes do that

    sometimes me and my cousin laugh about this and go play and say oh god crazy parents

    #301099

    anita
    Participant

    – but after you laugh about it with your cousin and you are back with your parents, alone, without your cousin, what do you do about these crazy parents?

    anita

    #301101

    Cali Chica
    Participant

    well usually i talk to them. they always tell me everything. like oh your aunt did this and they did that. can you believe it. and then they say – oh if your cousin asks you this or that dont say anything.

    i just listen to them. and then sometimes they say oh we are so lucky our daughter is listening good

    #301107

    anita
    Participant

    – what do they mean by “our daughter is listening good”?

    anita

    #301185

    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    what they mean is that I am sitting and listening to them.  they like when I pay attention to what they are saying. but sometimes they say its “adult talk” only

    #301187

    anita
    Participant

    – Does your mom like you, does she love you?

    anita

    #301205

    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    today I wore glasses and a headband and no make up. I looked in the mirror and i look like 10 year old CC at first glance.

    And I feel like it.

    Yesterday I had a huge monumental conversation with my husband.  Not that it was new information – but it did hit home to a point for once.

    He has been incredibly walled off/distressed and burnt out as you know.  Yesterday when I came home from work it all slowly came out.  I’ll try to summarize here. Pardon any frenzied sort of typing/as I am trying to write it out best from memory before it fades and I get “busy” with other thoughts.

    He talked about how his one year as a fellow (perfecting his trade after residency) for subspecialty surgery – was the time (well when I first talked to you in 2016) when all of the horrendous drama/abuse etc was at peak.

    As a result he was not able to fully engage himself in the fellowship.  His full time job was dealing with my drama and barage of phone calls and texts – and my parents – versus being a full time dedicate fellow of surgery.  He has huge regrets of not being able to absorb as much as he could, as far as being a true dedicated fellow.  Taking full advantage of the resources in front of him, surgically, mentally in developing mentorship with his colleagues and senior surgeons, etc.

    He was so frenzied during this time that the first job he chose, was based more on his feeling of inadequacy.  He felt that he wanted to be in a safe place with good colleagues, he did not feel that he had wings to fly with.  He said imagine if we applied all over! Texas, CA, anywhere – perhaps I would have gotten a much greater position, or opportunity, or anything.

    He talked about how he feels the pain of that daily at work.  He is lucky to be smart and skilled and so even his 50% or so in that fellowship led to a great outcome – given that he does have that natural talent.  But still – he has deep regret and resentment that after training his whole life for this career, at the pinnacle during that one year fellowship, he could not give it the respect, dedication, and full commitment he deserved.

    We talked about how he sees ZERO remorse and empathy in me.  He mentioned how if “he had done what I did” (even though he knows it wasn’t my true fault per se but regardless) he would be “bending over backwards and trying his hardest day in and day out to make up for it and win the love back.”

    He doesn’t see this at all in me. And he is absolutely right, that does not exist in me one bit.  We talked about how I am numb, but he frankly has no patience for that anymore.  He is happy that I work on my personal healing daily (my self with you Anita, etc) but he is yet to see much of it in regards to our relationship.  he said im glad you’re working so hard on yourself but what about us?

    i said i feel like its an alcoholic going to AA, he first has to learn his demons and how to “let go of the bottle” before being able to becomea better husband/father/ etc.  he understood this.  but he said, given the amount of emotional abuse he went through its hard for him t ohave any patience.

    (i went through some abusive scenarios with you, but there’s many more, I used to taunt him for being short and say that he’s not good enough for me – I used to make fun of his family, I used to say many terrible things that tore down his confidence)

    he feels over time, due to the thing about fellowship, and just overall being “beat down” he has really lost himself.  he feels changed as a person, once a patient happy person – to now defeated and becoming increasingly negative. as i get better he gets worse.  he never used to be this negative and resentful.

    so we talked and talked – i listened

    i said i feel numb – and feel like i know things in my brain but theres a disconnect with the heart.

    its like i walk around with sunglasses to important things (but of course notice every little frenzied detail)

    we talked about how i am able to have love empathy and respect and compliments for EVERYONE except him.  and then i re-told the disney world story and why.

    he says he understands why, but it still wears on a person over time. i said i know.

    so he said yes I have sunglasses on – but I also have boxing gloves.  Ready to fight, attack attack attack.  He says something I am there ready- bam punch throwing a defensive blow.  not taking ownership – fight fight.

    I talked about the “no attack” convo you and i had – and how yes, it really hasn’t been effective on my end to employ that – I am always quick to snap.

    he furthered the analogy. he said you have sunglasses on AND boxing gloves.  You can’t see the gloves when you have glasses on (figuratively and in reality) and you can’t take your glasses on when you have boxing gloves on (figuratively and physically)

    how can you “see” better or try to when you’re always ready to throw a punch?

    this is where I thought – yes It makes sense to me. it does

    he felt – gosh how much does it TAKE for you to finally see what i mean, I have been talking aboutthis for so long.  He is right.

    So I realized some thing more…I will wait to write it in the next post after your reply.

    #301215

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Cali Chica:

    I am thinking about your recent post and I am taking some time before replying.

    anita

    #301223

    Cali Chica
    Participant

    thank you

    #301225

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Cali Chica:

    I went back, again, to your previous posts looking for information very specific to your relationship with your husband. In the first post I will paste quotes (I capitalized the “I”s, a bit of punctuation added for a smoother read). You don’t have to read them, it is the basis for my next post to follow.

    July 11, 2016 (your first post, a year and two months before your marriage September 2017): “I am new to this site and thought I would share some of the things I have been struggling with since the engagement. I have been engaged for a few months now.. We both work very stressful jobs and see each other on weekends currently due to job situation (this will end shortly)… I dated someone for 7 years high school -through college, to about 22, first love, who was truly the perfect guy for me in every way possible.. Anyway, fast forward to 2 years ago, I met my now fiancé – not exactly love at first sight, but truly a dedicated, devoted loving guy with a heart of gold, and so I gave it a chance. More than a chance I did do some self talk of: look at this great guy in front of you don’t close yourself off, and who is to say that you can meet someone so great again… Although the attraction was not initially there, it did develop over time to the point that we dated – but in the back of my mind I would be bothered every once in a while by old thoughts of it was right. And as crazy as it may sound, the first ex is now a story from literally 12 years ago, still holds a part of me… I’ve spent a ton of time over the last week for some reason obsessing, thinking wow I can’t believe I let someone go so young, I never did find someone who ever came close, am I settling? so many thoughts questions, and it is truly torturing me. And here I have a guy who I’m engaged to who would give me the world and consistently tries to make me happy in every single way possible, he knows some of this old attachment to first ex and I have been open about it since (surprisingly) but it has gotten to a point for me that it is driving me crazy – and of course not fair at all to my “future husband.”… I struggle with more than anything is guilt – the guilt of “why was I so young and naïve to let someone good like that go” But then reality is here right in front of me I have a WONDERFUL man that I am not appreciating at current.

    Nov 9, 2016: “around 25 I started dating seriously again, and I felt often that I wanted to find a good guy not just for me, but also that fits in my family (normal Indian family values) – a girl we know from my town who isn’t the best of characters had gotten engaged to a good guy, and I felt constantly from my mother, “look how smart she is, she snagged a good one – you have so much going for you but we never have luck with these things” once again, focus on meeting a good boy – totally fine…I am getting married in less than a year, 500 person wedding, I’m first born and my fiancé is an only child … – my fiancé says wow its only been 5 days since the proposal and somehow your mom has made you upset again.. I  work so hard in career and personal life, stay fit, do yoga, have great friends – but funny thing is- my fiancé mentioned it too – it always feels like there is something wrong.

    Nov 10, 2016: “When I close my eyes I think of my mom as a damaged soul, a sad and abused (so to speak) fragile puppy that is now coming out in the world with a big bark. this feeling about her makes it quite difficult to “hate her” or to feel i should attempt to have “power over her” in a way it simply just makes me feel soo soo bad for her.

    Jan 16, 2018: “I did not treat my current husband very positively many times over the last four years. ..    Looking back I see many patterns of me having internal distress and projecting onto him. It could be something such as feeling that everyone else is happy and why am I feeling not so happy and so targeting it out at the first person in front of me which was him. Then there are many examples of things that are more specific, my parents telling me that there are many men out there that have certain qualities and those are great qualities, and then looking at the person in front of me and convincing myself that since he may not have one or two or some of these qualities that he is not as good. In reality, my first example is the more harmful one because it came out of nowhere for both him and me. It was as though there were these ebbs and flows of terrible emotions in me and I would lash out for no rhyme or reason. Things could be great for a month or so and then I would be sinking into a terrible feeling and then just act like a monster… I superficially  think wow how could I treat someone so bad like this in the past I feel like I should be so sad and upset with myself over this. I want to feel like this but instead of that there is empty space almost like a numbness.  Not because I don’t feel like what I did or all of the above is not true or valid it’s just that I can’t actually feel any remorse or sadness or kind of anything over it. There was a time a few months ago that my husband had mentioned this, and said that he found it strange. He said that if he was in the same shoes he would be so beyond himself for doing this to someone that it would really show. And with me it doesn’t show. This was after a lot of the terrible things that had happened so we were talking about this not into fighting way but more in a discovery -why doesn’t it show for me -what is going on in me that I can’t actually feel the above mentioned.

    Jan 16, 2018:  “Yesterday I was impatient and short and negative with my husband because my mom had a terrible accusatory conversation with me and I projected onto him.  I go to sleep realizing yes it was wrong for me to act that way but not feeling sad or remorseful. Just “knowing” in my brain. I then wake up the next morning feeling tense. But NOT ABOUT the issue at hand.

    June 25- 28, 2019: Lately he has been doing much much worse – unraveling of resentment, burnt out (ness), the empty fuel in the tank the type you have commented on.  The true emotional/mental burn out…  he over time has built up a lot of resentment towards me…his own words: “it’s not work that’s bad, it’s you – and everything  I went through with you.  I still feel like even after all this time, and I know you’re working on it, I just don’t see change or remorse in you.  It’s like it just doesn’t make sense or matter.  I know it takes time, but frankly I just don’t think I have any patience left –  I used to be the most patient person, and especially with you, but you took that quality away.  And now there’s nothing left in the tank.”… at present, he is withdrawn, burnt out (and of course his job as a surgeon at one of the busiest hospitals in NYC with a malignant/toxic work environment doesn’t help).  He has poor sleep (Like I always used to, and sometimes still do).  He has low patience for me, in short he is beaten down. Yesterday.. my husband arrived home earlier than usual.  I observed, I was annoyed at this.  I was annoyed at his presence.  I wanted to swat him away.. he recently got mad and said, you know how much it means to me to come home to things in place – I am not asking you to scrub the place clean, but since you know this is important to me, I would hope that you would take the effort to put your things away, remember to make the bed in the morning – its never done if you leave after me – etc.. I found myself feeling annoyed and irritated with him.  I felt like he was a pest who was going to come knock on my door and say you need to do this and this and this…

    He had all the right qualities, and I recall feeling a close connection with him. I don’t ever remember “falling in love” but Anita, I have never felt this… after my parents were in the picture and my stress and negativity grew and grew, I did hit him a few times.. I was enraged and full of “hate” and hit him… Another time I did when we were on vacation in Europe, while his cousin was there.  Long story short, we were having many arguments and he started to say something back to me, such as “stop being a b***” this is years later after that first incident so he had now started to build the anger resentment.  I was so enraged I slapped him and kept hitting him, and his cousin had to break it apart… I used to question a lot a lot if I only then chose to continue with this current man because he had the qualifications on paper, and met criteria, and came from a good family in my culture (mother would be happy and approve) … He states he did it (this has come up a lot especially when he began to be more resentful) because he truly loves me.  He had hope and he saw past the bad.  He saw someone in need of help and tried his hardest and mightiest.  He often feels like a fool because all his love and patience for me was taken and thrown on the floor and stomped on.

    He talked about how his one year as a fellow (perfecting his trade after residency) for subspecialty surgery – was the time (well when I first talked to you in 2016) when all of the horrendous drama/abuse etc. was at peak. As a result he was not able to fully engage himself in the fellowship.  His full time job was dealing with my drama and barrage of phone calls and texts – and my parents – versus being a full time dedicate fellow of surgery.  He has huge regrets of not being able to absorb as much as he could, as far as being a true dedicated fellow.  Taking full advantage of the resources in front of him, surgically, mentally in developing mentorship with his colleagues and senior surgeons, etc.

    He was so frenzied during this time that the first job he chose, was based more on his feeling of inadequacy.  He felt that he wanted to be in a safe place with good colleagues, he did not feel that he had wings to fly with.  He said imagine if we applied all over! Texas, CA, anywhere – perhaps I would have gotten a much greater position, or opportunity, or anything.

    He talked about how he feels the pain of that daily at work.  He is lucky to be smart and skilled and so even his 50% or so in that fellowship led to a great outcome – given that he does have that natural talent.  But still – he has deep regret and resentment that after training his whole life for this career, at the pinnacle during that one year fellowship, he could not give it the respect, dedication, and full commitment he deserved.

    We talked about how he sees ZERO remorse and empathy in me.  He mentioned how if “he had done what I did” (even though he knows it wasn’t my true fault per se but regardless) he would be “bending over backwards and trying his hardest day in and day out to make up for it and win the love back.”

    He doesn’t see this at all in me. And he is absolutely right, that does not exist in me one bit.  We talked about how I am numb, but he frankly has no patience for that anymore.  He is happy that I work on my personal healing daily (my self with you Anita, etc.) but he is yet to see much of it in regards to our relationship.  he said I’m glad you’re working so hard on yourself but what about us?… he said, given the amount of emotional abuse he went through its hard for him t have any patience.

    (I went through some abusive scenarios with you, but there’s many more, I used to taunt him for being short and say that he’s not good enough for me – I used to make fun of his family, I used to say many terrible things that tore down his confidence)

    He feels over time, due to the thing about fellowship, and just overall being “beat down” he has really lost himself.  he feels changed as a person, once a patient happy person – to now defeated and becoming increasingly negative. as i get better he gets worse.  he never used to be this negative and resentful…

    I said I feel numb – and feel like i know things in my brain but there’s a disconnect with the heart…

    We talked about how I am able to have love empathy and respect and compliments for EVERYONE except him.  and then i re-told the Disney world story and why. He says he understands why, but it still wears on a person over time. I said I know.

    So he said yes I have sunglasses on – but I also have boxing gloves.  Ready to fight, attack, attack, attack.  He says something: I am there ready- bam punch throwing a defensive blow.  Not taking ownership – fight, fight.

    I talked about the “no attack” convo you and I had – and how yes, it really hasn’t been effective on my end to employ that – I am always quick to snap…

    He said you have sunglasses on AND boxing gloves.  You can’t see the gloves when you have glasses on.. and you can’t take your glasses on when you have boxing gloves on.. how can you “see” better or try to when you’re always ready to throw a punch?”

    anita

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  anita.
    #301247

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Cali Chica:

    I am having significant difficulty posting this, it distresses me and I am worried about you. I will explain best I can: it is a no  brainer that this marriage is not working out, that it never worked out and was a mistake to begin with and should be ended as quickly and as smoothly as possible.

    I think it will benefit your husband to end this. It has been difficult for him for a long, long time and it will be difficult for him to go through a divorce, but he may recover. I am worried about you because my hope for you was that you will heal in the context of a safe, healthy relationship. Without this option and without you attending quality psychotherapy, where you go  from here?

    Back to the marriage: it is your responsibility for having mistreated him and it is his responsibility, no less than it is yours, that he dated you, proceeded to date you after being mistreated, then married you and proceeded to remain married so far. The two of you were legally adults when you met and married. The two  of you are not mentally disabled in any traditional sense of the term, so the two  of you are equally responsible for living together as a married couple today.

    When he planned and worked hard to become a surgeon, part of his future success depended not on his academic ability, his skill, talent, hard working ethics and professional ambition, but on his ability to make wise choices in the area of relationships, and … he chose poorly.

    The two of you meet, both looked  good on paper, both looked satisfactory (in your minds) to your respective parents, and so a marriage took place. He has empathy for you; you have none for him. He tries hard, he is patient, he waits… and nothing happens, no empathy from you to this very day.

    Your empathy is locked in with your mother, locked in with that “damaged soul, a sad and abused..  fragile puppy”. Your anger at your mother is blocked: “it (is) quite difficult to ‘hate her’ or to feel I should attempt to have ‘power over her’ in a way it simply just makes me feel soo soo bad for her“, so you direct that anger toward him, because it does not make you feel bad for him.

    Before he met you, your husband may not have had much experience with relationships, maybe he felt inferior or unattractive, maybe regarding his height, I don’t know. Clearly he didn’t receive adequate guidance from his parents or from anyone else regarding a relatioship with a woman/ future wife. When his cousin witnessed you hitting him in Europe, she did not approach his parents for an intervention, and if she did, they may not have thought it was their place, so  he was quite alone in his distress and hoped for the best.

    I typed the above as quickly as possible  because it is not easy for me, my heart is aching for you and for him.

    anita

     

    #301255

    Cali Chica
    Participant

    dear Anita,

    You wrote this very well. and you wrote it from your heart.  A heart that is pure.

    I have tears. And yes, I was able to have them instantly.  I am not applauding myself because jeez, if something like this doesn’t make me tear up – what will!

    I was going to post something to you right before I read this, but I just deleted it.  I realize I still want to write about it to you so here goes..i’ll try my best to write it as was. I will do just that without replying further to this message – and then reread it

    i will write it with my eyes closed the way I felt when all of this came up 2 days ago and yesterday

    So Anita, I wrote my first post to you. It is heartbreaking and real – there is no “lack of awareness” or sunglasses clouding that.  I escape often – finding it more comfortable inthe company of others – not knowing true love or intimacy.  then I “hate” myself for it – but not enough to actually change.

    Never have I met someone say something so true to me – so intelligent, raw, real, true, with true suffering but laced with love at the same time.

    poetic and a tragic – what love songs are made of.

    I said in the middle of the night when I woke up 2 nights ago (before this conversation last night) that:

    SCC is “amazing’ she can do it all – and with a smile and a flip of the hair. But she is stupid, she doesn’t do anything. What is the point of all that she does if she can’t be centered and if her relationship suffers.

    Jack of all trades master of none.

    Healing is a journey.

    Healing is a priority.

    I say it is my MAIN priority – but is it? I say my “doctor job is second to my real job of healing”  I say this often, to myself, or those who would understand – such as my husband or sister or my friend L.

    But its not.  I have for way too long done too much – so what if i can do it – so what!!! just because i am so good at doing it and over functioning doesnt mean it is doing me any good at all – i want to scream!

    so what if in medicine you train almost 15 years and then if you quit they say – oh what a shame waste of talent!

    talent!!! what about health

    if i had cancer, everyone would say: bless her heart she needs rest

    WELL I DO HAVE CANCER!!! cancer of the psyche. cancer of the neurons, sticky gunky sheath on the neurons – cancer that causes frenzy and gunky sheaths and aaaah

    so why don’t i give myself permission

    TO REST AND HEAL LIKE I HAVE CANCER

    why? because of self judgement, because i dont’ have to succumb because I can do it – i can push forward.

    I am tricking myself – I am harming myself.  I have cancer and I am delaying treatment.

    I am human. i am a doctor in a very highly stressful field, but I can work with a smile on autopilot.

    That horrendous woman at work , I deal with her weekly – and i bring that stress home. I say why CC, why can’t you let it go, god why always holding on to something.  Why?

    Because I am human.  That’s why – and because I am not processing it as the way a “non traumatized normal person” would.

    I told my husband I have an “easy job” for what my field is – but hey its still a hell of a job to be a doctor for 40 hours a week – i am sick and tired of diminishing that – because I am so used to dooing it with ease.

    a marathon runner says – eh its only 26 miles, but I think wow! how do you do that – amazing!

    he is so used to it that it does not occur to him that it is: an achievement, taxing, and may take a toll on him over time.

    he needs to give himself permission to not run everyday – even if it is SECOND nature and innate.  no he can rest his bones.  doesnt matter if he is a natural runner.

    i can give myself permission.

    i hereby declare my first job is to heal

    dear medical director, I would like to transition to part time.  I have some family situation that requires my full undivided attention and at this time it is imperative that I have space in my life for that.  Thus I would like to cut down to 3 days per week.  If this is not possible I entirely understand, but I will unfortunately have to reconsider my position here

    sincerely,

    not a doctor, but a patient, a patient with a chronic disease of the psyche in desperate need of reparation of herself and marriage

    this is what i want to do. i am going to do it. i must – it is the only way – to rest, to heal, i cant be the attentive person i want to to my husband if i literally am burnt out from work doesnt matter 20 hours or 40 or 1 million.  i feel it deep down a conviction, just like i did before i went no contact with my mother – SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE AND IT IS GOING TO RIGHT NOW. AND WITH THAT I WILL MOVE MOUNTAINS.

    yes i will. not because I am super. because I just know

    #301259

    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I wrote this to you because I thought i should share all the thoughts going along with this difficult topic.

    I reread your post. I agree deep down in my heart, YET, I still have hope.

    not the kind of desperation hope that says “oh don’t leave me”

    but the type that i know, just like I knew before I went no contact with parents.

    see I used to worry things would be doomed, i would be doomed forever, and you told me the only cure was to not talk to them. you didn’t say it just like that -but you said it over time, knowing this may be impossible.

    and i did it – because I felt the conviction, and I was moved.  i was moved beyond a reasonable doubt. whatever that means

    I am not defending myself.  I am just thinking  – and reading and processing.  I will continue to process all weekend.

    my husband deserves, love, light and happiness.

    that has been lost. he deserves the world – I can not give that to him. but maybe one day i can – that day may seem too far away.

    but maybe not – Anita – maybe not.

    hmm..i dont know.

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