Didn’t reflect under topics above

Dear Anita,

I am back.  I re-read your post, and this part I have highlighted:

 Problem is she insisted that those people with good luck take from her… when alone with me she complained about how they use her. I told her: stop giving them things and she would say: no, it is not nice, what would they say, something like that.

So I told her: I will tell them, I will tell them to stop taking from you! She said: I will kill you if you do that.

Next those people were over and she gave them (expensive foods, gifts, whatnot) generously, insisted if they refused, they took, left, and she told me that they shouldn’t have taken, what users they are, daring to take from an unlucky woman who works so hard.

I have highlighted the key points of this.  It appears you wrote how I often do, a stream of consciousness based on emotion.  I want to point out how important that is often for remembering the reality, of how we were treated by these mothers.  These anecdotes are so telling.

1- Those people with good luck take from her.

—Assuming these people at baseline have good luck, mostly as a result of not being HER – they are luckier.

—Assuming these people with good luck, already have good luck – and now want MORE

2-Complain about how they use her

—It is the saga of her life to constantly use you as a punching bag, a therapist, a sounding board, and a kick toy.  You are constantly expected – and were- the perfect silent listener.

3-You tell her…well, stop

—She has an inflammatory response: how dare you stupid child say that! What do you know! Insinuating your job is to just sit sit still and listen, and if she does want a response out of you – you better believe it is the ONE she was looking for, or else! Or else she will find the biggest scariest way to keep you down.  It worked.

4-Her response at not continuing her behavior

—You, like any sane person, think: well if what you are doing is not working, then stop! Almost comical it seems.

Not comical at all! She is absurdly taken back by this.  What a foolish thing to think of Anita, don’t you know the shame it would put on me!! How could I not give, what kind of woman would that make me?

Not at all concerned about the type of woman that uses and kicks her child around? Nope – not at all.

We can discuss the above comments if you like

——-

Next I will write my own anecdote, not very well organized in my head today – but I will write it out..

So we had a cleaning lady growing up, Maria.  When I say cleaning lady it was by no means this lavish thing.  It was someone that came maybe once every other week to help my mother “clean” the house.  Now, without getting into too much detail.  My mother’s entire world revolved around this lady coming.  She became so obsessed with her, they became like high school gossiping best friends.  Maria would often stay for hours after chatting with my mother. My mother would offer her food and drink and presents like a best friend or a family member.  Maria then started bringing her daughter Diane over to play with my sister, and the two of them would play together, they were about 7 or so.

Well low and behold, and my sister will do a good job explaining as well I am sure if it ever came up – that literally my mother’s entire obsession was comparing my sister to Diane – and her life to Maria’s. So to circle it back to the highlights of your story.

1- My mother gave and gave to Maria, desperate for a friend.  Feeling so glad the world finally gave her a good friend.  Slowly, Maria would stop cleaning as well, as per my mother, arrive late, leave early – make excuses.  My mother would be angered, enraged, constantly call my father or myself and go on and on about this hysterical.  How all she does is give to others, and they use her.  How dare they! I dare her to show up at my house and try again.

So let’s say Maria then shows up.  Now my mother is in tears- hysterical, sad she was hurt by this friend.  So then the saga continues, she goes to Marias house, sets up play dates for my sister and Diane.  Pushes my sister to get closer and closer to Diane so that they can maintain a friendship.  Puts Maria down for acting like she big and almighty – but at the same time giving her the credibility of a real life amazing best friend.

She would talk about how lucky Maria is to not have to work that hard, and live a good life.  And it is far worse to be her, my mother, who has finances  – but is so alone.  And how after befriending Maria, and making her work fun and easy, Maria slaps her in the face over and over.  What a misery.  She would then go back and forth with her for years.  Maria inviting her to an event, then flaking, and it take over my mother’s entire day, week, month.  Then my mother wanting to do the same back -revenge. Back and forth for years, even planning vacations together – so much so much.

Of course my sister and I both, especially I being older – would start saying to my mother: enough! enough with this.  One day you love Maria, one day you hate her.  One day you hate that you ever treated her more than a cleaning lady, the next day thanking the lord that your best friend has arisen. Ridiculous.

She would scream at us curse us.  Say things  with translations like you ungrateful b*** you wouldn’t know, your life and world is so easy – look how alone your mother is, if it wasn’t for Maria who would she have?!

And on another day, let’s say she would be in tears on the floor: oh my daughters you are so right and wise beyond your years, I need to stop this I must stop – talking about as though it was like an addition or a drug issue.  Running to the phone and shoving it in my face, call her – call Maria now! Call her CC and tell her FU don’t treat my mother like that, cmon help your mother.

And another day, something else.

There is so much more to that whole saga I will leave out for now.  But the concept of it remains the same.

Another scenario that comes to mind is how she continued to give and be kind to my in laws at FIRST, enamored with them, obsessed, just to kick me down later figuratively and  tell me that they are dirty, money hungry losers that are trying to steal their daughter away.  And that I might as well be a whore giving myself to this family.  But a week earlier at a family event showing off how their daughter is marrying into a nice doctor family.  If I ever said, well mom you can keep your distance.  I could not imagine her wrath, she would cackle and say – only a stupid bigot like you would think that – you know nothing about the world, good luck being married an finding happiness, no matter how hard you try – you will never find it..

That’s enough for now – I will wait for your response.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Cali Chica.

Dear Anita,

I wasn’t sure if I should bring in my personal anecdote up – as I don’t want to take away from the main themes, but I had a feeling it may help.

Being expected to be a silent perfect listener of a non-sensical person who we care for and want to help (and get away from at the same time) is crazy making, and it gives birth to that ROAR.

Yes, the ROAR.

My mother said the SAME exact thing:  “it is not my doing, I react to how they are- it is they who are changing, not me!”

Uncanny.  I believed this for so long, so did you.  So see – increased hostility at others.  Not only are other people so unpredictable changing this way and that.  They are also making poor mother sad and upset by doing this.  Double anger. Double roar.

BUT – to add to the ROAR, now mother lashes out onto US. So here we are feeling angry at others, for her, and then sad for her experience, and then when we try to help – slap in the face.  So now a ROAR builds up, I want to escape from this bad feeling – run far away.

But not so simple, it is simmering with guilt, and hatred.  Guilt for not fixing poor mother, and making those bad people suffer.  Hatred at the world.  Hatred at how you feel.  Oh so very complicated – and even beyond.

—

The fact of the silent listener – is exactly that.

Be silent when I say, and not when I don’t say.  I said nothing at all? Well read my mind – and nope, no matter what you do it will not help.  I will always be angry at the world and you.

All your efforts are in vain. All our efforts.

What a ROAR that is! All that work and effort and SUFFERING, and it amounted to nothing.  Imagine, it isn’t like we were even able to have some tangible benefit – let’s make one up, we went out there and fought some war for our mothers and now she is able to have some decent happiness.. nope  – or we suffered and dealt with so much anguish – but these days in her older age – she feels so much sorrow and empathy for us, and is forever grateful for our sacrifices – nope.

It was all for nothing. Suffering, sacrifices, and having our neuropathways changed for good – all without any benefit to anyone whatsoever.

That is a ROAR, for sure.

Dear Anita,

I too felt different yesterday, and do today.  I hope you are having a good morning.  I am feeling quite pensive today

Dear Anita,

We made great progress yesterday.  We always do – but I think our focus on the roots of the roar, the roots of the baseline hostility, and one more thing…have me pensive.

Pensive in a good way, not bad.

There is a dichotomy present with our mothers:

Stay silent, but give me the answer to my problem (makes no sense, dichotomy)

Act how I want you to, but don’t you have your own personality?

Punish those people for me, but don’t make me look bad.

Make your mother happy, but why aren’t you happy you ungrateful child?!

This last one is key – working our whole lives (in vain) to make our mothers “happy” – and of course only finding unhappiness our own selves..

And then – getting put down for not being grateful for the life that this all sacrificing mother has given us – how dare we be anything but happy?

So much dichotomy in our brain, dissonance —> Distress!