Home→Forums→Relationships→Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality?
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Tee.
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June 14, 2024 at 1:14 am #433838
TeeParticipant* Two spelling errors, this is the correct version:
Well actually, she’s making a fool out of you.
Which you are providing to her in abundance
June 14, 2024 at 5:04 pm #433856
ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
Assuming u r right about the situation, do u think I should waste my time confronting him, especially knowing he could lie about the situation? Isn’t the best course of action to just be on my guard and trust no one?
“And are you sorry?” No I never cheated on her. I am saying that the first time, he told her that I could be cheating, when I was actually just sleeping but that made her break up with me. But after that, recently when B was talking to him again after reading our conversation, he told her that I was interested in someone, when I actually wasn’t, and she assumed that I was interested in that person for months and she assumed that I was breaking up with her because I was cheating when I actually wasn’t. She thought I was just pinning to blame on her to break up with her so that I could be with someone else. But none of that was true. I was never interested in anyone else. But the false information that he fed to her led to this conclusion.
“But what about all the other breakups that you initiated because of her bad behavior? Because of her lying about her ex? Because of her wearing revealing outfits and posting it on social media in spite of promising not to? Because of her prostituting herself?” I know all that, but she thinks that these are just my excuses to pin the blame on her because she thinks I was cheating on her.
“All that didn’t endanger your relationship, but that one occasion where she asked your friend if you were cheating (so she came up with the paranoid thought first), then he decided not to dissuade her – that’s what endangered your relationship?” No the relationship was already endangered by then, but I am trying to get a peaceful resolution and this dude is feeding her with unnecessary things behind my back???? I am trying to get my money and move on and this dude is creating reasons for her to continue fighting with me?
“And your friendship is not already ruined? “ No really, cause I am not dumb enough to just blindly believe what B showed me. I am just going to keep my guard up until the guy does something stupid again.
“Oh so you even have to take her to the ATM? She doesn’t have online banking, so she doesn’t know how much money she has?” Apparently she can’t access the website? And she wanted to deposit some money into her account so she needed to go to the atm for that. And it was in the night and the place we live can get dangerous at night.
“And then once you get to the ATM and she sees her account is almost empty, she sheepishly says “oops, nothing there. Can’t give you back today, sorry”. And that’s it? You’re buying it?” Yes I saw her account balance and it was roughly 60$. What else am I supposed to do other than wait patiently until next month? She promised to pay then. I can’t let go of this money.
“Well actually, she’s making a fool put of you. First, she would know how much roughly she has. I mean, she should know it – before she calls you. The fact that she is dragging you to the ATM and then acts surprised that she doesn’t have the money, and basically stands you up and you go back empty handed, is beyond humiliating.” I saw it coming from a mile away but I needed to hold on to that 1% hope. Besides I can’t have her death on my conscience if something did happen since she was leaving in the middle of the night. This woman is now asking if I could buy her an 80$ perfume as “a gift” for her. This woman is craaaaaazzzzyyyyy I swear. The audacity is insaneeeeeee.
“Acceptance to be treated like a clown?” No acceptance as in controlling my emotions and not allowing her to trigger me.
I didn’t want to be cold to her, but I think that is my only choice right now. I am not letting her fool me anymore.
Paradoxy
June 15, 2024 at 4:05 am #433864TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
recently when B was talking to him again after reading our conversation, he told her that I was interested in someone, when I actually wasn’t, and she assumed that I was interested in that person for months and she assumed that I was breaking up with her because I was cheating when I actually wasn’t. She thought I was just pinning to blame on her to break up with her so that I could be with someone else. But none of that was true. I was never interested in anyone else. But the false information that he fed to her led to this conclusion.
Let’s slow this down a little: she accused you (falsely) of cheating, not necessarily because she really believed you cheated on her, but because a narcissist will use anything to accuse a person, even if it’s a complete fabrication. Don’t forget that she was accusing you left and right, even for major transgressions on her part, such as prostituting herself. She also accused you of “crucifying” her, when you simply wanted her to be faithful and not lie and cheat on you.
So her accusations are malevolent, arbitrary and unjust: there is no base for them, and yet, she is doing that, because that’s one of the narcissist’ tactics to wear down the victim and assert control and power over their victim. Because every normal person wants to defend themselves against false accusations, and try to prove that they didn’t do the awful thing that they are being accused of.
But with a narcissist, it’s a futile attempt, because a narcissist is not interested in the truth but in winning over you, in making you feel bad about yourself and them feeling superior to you. Even having moral superiority over you, when she is clearly the lying and cheating party, while you are innocent.
Because of that, there is no point in trying to defend yourself to her, because she will never accept your arguments – because she is not interested in facts but in feeling superior and in control of you. The more you defend yourself, the more you are entangling yourself in her web, and the more powerful she feels.
Your defending yourself and arguing with her is one way you give her narcissistic supply. Because she is getting energized from those arguments and you are exhausting yourself in the process.
Remember how you felt 3 months ago? Completely exhausted, worn down, ruined (your words), with no energy to study. Well, that’s because she drained all the energy out of you, in those endless arguments in which you tried to explain to her that what she did was wrong, or that she is hurting you, or that it’s not your fault that she prostituted herself etc etc. And yet: none of your points reached her. She was like a brick wall and kept accusing you again and again.
You see? That’s her tactic to control you an wear you down: false accusations.
I know all that, but she thinks that these are just my excuses to pin the blame on her because she thinks I was cheating on her.
As I’ve just explained, she might not even think that you were cheating. But she is using it to control the narrative, and the narrative is the one in which you are the guilty party and needing to defend yourself to her. And there she has you: caught in her web.
No the relationship was already endangered by then, but I am trying to get a peaceful resolution and this dude is feeding her with unnecessary things behind my back???? I am trying to get my money and move on and this dude is creating reasons for her to continue fighting with me?
There cannot be a peaceful resolution with her, in the sense that she is finally happy with you and gives you back your money and you both go on your merry ways, separately. No. She will never be happy with you unless you choose to be her servant till however long she finds appropriate. She will make you feel guilty and make you “pay” – literally by giving her money and by doing whatever she tells you to do (such as buying her $80 perfumes).
She will make you pay and serve her purposes – that’s the only way she will be “happy” with you. And as soon as you object, she will attack you and accuse you of being a horrible person. Or she will start pitying herself and whaling about her sad destiny and that if you don’t help her, her life will be ruined blah blah blah. She will use emotional blackmail and guilt-tripping, if you dare to say no to her requests.
I am trying to get my money and move on and this dude is creating reasons for her to continue fighting with me?
No, dear Paradoxy, SHE is the reason she is continuing to fight with you. That’s her modus operandi, a way to keep control over you. The chat she stole from you is an endless source of attacks on you (a goldmine, actually), which she will be using for as long as she can provoke a reaction from you. Your friend’s slip-up is just another excuse for her to attack you and torture you.
And btw, why would it be even your fault that your friend is hitting on her? But still, she finds a reason to turn it against you, to make you feel guilty, so she can keep a moral superiority over you and then… extract the “pay” from you.
What I am trying to say is that even if he weren’t hitting on her, she would still be fighting with you. His behavior only gives her more “fuel” to fire those false accusations and arguments.
And keep in mind that she might have contributed to him hitting on her, by flirting with him and portraying herself as the innocent one in the conflict with you. But of course, she is not showing you their entire conversation. Only the “incriminating” part, which she is happily using to accuse you further.
Apparently she can’t access the website? And she wanted to deposit some money into her account so she needed to go to the atm for that. And it was in the night and the place we live can get dangerous at night.
Haha, she can’t access the website, for days…. yeah right. And then she needs to go to the ATM late at night. Yeah, the only time of day she can go. And then of course, what else but to ask you to accompany her? Right?
No, Paradoxy… honestly, I think she is using it as an excuse to meet with you and try to seduce you back into the relationship. Because you said she wants to lure you back in. So she is playing a “damsel in distress”, needing to go alone in the dangerous night… and she has no one to turn to but you… and so you are her prince charming, who saves her. And she is so happy and maybe even shows some gratitude, and acts sweet… in hope that you might change your mind and accept her back.
Am I right in assuming that she is acting very sweet on those walks to the ATM? Because if so, those are her attempts to lure you back in…
Besides I can’t have her death on my conscience if something did happen since she was leaving in the middle of the night.
Nothing happened to her at those pool parties, where she was dancing almost naked, when you two weren’t dating yet. So don’t worry, this girl is more than capable of taking care of herself – if she wants to. And if she doesn’t… well, you trying to save her from herself is like trying to save an addict from heroin. It’s impossible. You are not responsible for her safety, and besides, she doesn’t have to go to the ATM late at night. That’s just her excuse to meet you…
Yes I saw her account balance and it was roughly 60$. What else am I supposed to do other than wait patiently until next month? She promised to pay then. I can’t let go of this money.
First, why don’t you come up with a plan to pay you back in installments, e.g. $100 a month? I don’t know what’s your laptop worth, but I guess not more than $1000? So that would be 10 months.
I know that with a narcissist, they don’t stick to any kind of commitment, so even if they promise, they will find excuses not to pay you back. But still, I think it would be good to have at least some plan – some form of commitment on her part – rather than her not even trying to save up. Because as it is right now, she will pay you back never. BTW, how much did she already pay back, if I may ask? 10% of the amount she owes?
I can’t let go of this money.
You may have to. Are you counting to get back only the laptop money, or also some of the investment money that she promised to give you back? Because I think you can say goodbye to the latter – she’s not giving that back, even if she promised. As far as the laptop money, perhaps the best way would be to get a summer job and earn a thousand bucks and that’s it. Much easier than waiting for her and letting yourself be humiliated and manipulated in the process…
This woman is now asking if I could buy her an 80$ perfume as “a gift” for her. This woman is craaaaaazzzzyyyyy I swear. The audacity is insaneeeeeee.
Yeah, glad you see it. But she is not crazy. She is narcissistic. And her behavior is called entitlement. She believes she is entitled to receive such gifts and get whatever she wants (even from people who shouldn’t have any responsibility for her upkeep, such as her ex boyfriend). And she is using every possible tactic to extract things from people, such as blaming, guilt-tripping or playing a martyr…
Not everyone falls for her tactics, but those who are empathic and/or those who believe they are a bad person (like you – who are both empathic and believe you are a bad person) unfortunately fall for her bait. You are a perfect victim for her, i.e. a perfect source of narcissistic supply.
No acceptance as in controlling my emotions and not allowing her to trigger me.
What you are doing now is agreeing to everything she wants (or almost everything) and playing according to her rules, without resisting or raising your voice. So total submission and obedience. You believe you are doing it only for a while, till she gives you back the money. But I hope you understood that her goal is NOT to give you back the money, but to keep you as her source of supply for as long as possible. She doesn’t want to let you go, but to keep you attached to her.
So what is a better strategy then? I agree that fighting and arguing (and trying to defend yourself in the face of her accusations) wouldn’t be a good strategy. So it’s good that you are trying to reduce that, because that’s only depleting you and energizing her.
However, it’s also not a good strategy to give her whatever she wants, such as taking her to the ATM whenever she pleases, or believing her empty promises – that she would give you back the money, even if she doesn’t have the slightest intention to start saving.
You should realize that she doesn’t want to give you back the money, because that’s when she would lose the narcissistic supply (both emotional and financial) that she is getting from you.
If you know her true intentions, you’ll be able to adjust your strategy better. Because right now she has you on a leash, and she doesn’t intend to drop that leash, if she can help it.
I didn’t want to be cold to her, but I think that is my only choice right now. I am not letting her fool me anymore.
Yep, you’d need to change strategy. Gray rocking is one possible method. We can talk more about possible strategies, but you’d need to realize whom you are dealing with: a very tricky enemy. And it won’t be easy to disentangle from her. But you need to first want to. And then come up with the ways how.
With regard to your friend (your first question), I’ll reply in a separate post.
June 15, 2024 at 2:38 pm #433867ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“There cannot be a peaceful resolution with her, in the sense that she is finally happy with you and gives you back your money and you both go on your merry ways, separately.” Even if I don’t get a peaceful resolution with her, why give her more reasons to continue arguing with me? More material to use against me when he clearly knows the information is false?
“No, dear Paradoxy, SHE is the reason she is continuing to fight with you.” YES, BOTH OF US KNEW THAT. So why in the world did he give her more excuses to continue fighting?
“And btw, why would it be even your fault that your friend is hitting on her?” She is saying that she told me that my friends are bad and etc and that I have poor choice of friends.
“What I am trying to say is that even if he weren’t hitting on her, she would still be fighting with you.” We had stopped talking entirely until he hit on her and she sent me the screenshots. I would have appreciated it if I could have maintained that silence.
“And then of course, what else but to ask you to accompany her? Right?” Even if it is just her manipulation, I can’t have her death on my conscience, sorry.
“Am I right in assuming that she is acting very sweet on those walks to the ATM?” Yes, and crying on the way back home cause I rejected her advances.
“Nothing happened to her at those pool parties, where she was dancing almost naked, when you two weren’t dating yet.” Those parties can’t be compared to a dark alley that is known to have robberies occurring often.
“She doesn’t have to go to the ATM late at night” She doesn’t have to, but she will still do it, because she knows that I wont be able to sit still knowing she is out there walking alone in the middle of the night.
“First, why don’t you come up with a plan to pay you back in installments, e.g. $100 a month? I don’t know what’s your laptop worth, but I guess not more than $1000? So that would be 10 months.” That is exactly what I am doing. She already paid 100$ already, but she still has a lot more to give back.
“BTW, how much did she already pay back, if I may ask?” Like I stated earlier, she has only paid 100$ and she still has 400 more to go for the laptop (and another 400 for the investment that I paid right before our break up if possible).
“As far as the laptop money, perhaps the best way would be to get a summer job and earn a thousand bucks and that’s it.” Can’t get a summer job while in med, the work load is too much. I have exams coming up soon.
I just need to make myself stern and cold and only talk to her when she says the money is ready. That is the only solution rn.
Paradoxy
June 16, 2024 at 2:38 am #433871TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
YES, BOTH OF US KNEW THAT. So why in the world did he give her more excuses to continue fighting?
Because she seduced him over those 3 months? He couldn’t resist her? BTW did you explicitly tell him not to communicate with her after you two broke up? Because as far as I know, they were friends/acquaintances too – he didn’t know her only through you, right?
But again, let’s slow this down: the fact that your friend is hitting on her doesn’t necessarily mean that this should cause more fights between you and her. The person who is causing the fights is her – she is accusing you of having a poor choice of friends:
She is saying that she told me that my friends are bad and etc and that I have poor choice of friends.
So again, whatever happens – even stuff that are out of your control – is your fault. She is using the tactics of false accusations to wear you down and make you the guilty party, while she is playing the victim, again. The girl who engages in sexting, posts seductive photos on social media, wears sexy outfits and has possibly been flirting with your friend as well – is now “upset” for being hit on by him. Oh how obscene! He is harassing her poor, innocent self!
You called her once a hypocrite, and indeed she is a hypocrite – calling you out for something that has nothing to do with you, and playing a saint while we know she is everything but. Because let’s be honest: someone who lies, cheats and steals (literally) is now acting “holier than thou”, while she is the one who is actually morally corrupt.
We had stopped talking entirely until he hit on her and she sent me the screenshots. I would have appreciated it if I could have maintained that silence.
Knowing her intentions, she didn’t appreciate the silence. Because she wants to lure you back in. And she knows that if she can accuse you of something, you’ll react and get into an argument with her. Which for her is better than silence.
So maybe she was preparing the bait for your friend, flirting with him, “confiding” in him and telling him all about her “martyrdom” with you…. until he finally took the bait and started hitting on her. And there he was: caught like a fly in a spider’s web.
She doesn’t have to, but she will still do it, because she knows that I wont be able to sit still knowing she is out there walking alone in the middle of the night.
Even if it is just her manipulation, I can’t have her death on my conscience, sorry.
Yes, and crying on the way back home cause I rejected her advances.
Well, there you have it. She knows your weak spot and she is using it to try to achieve her goal: to lure you back in. She knows exactly how to manipulate you. Threatening to go out alone in the night. Some people even threaten to kill themselves to get what they want. That’s the worst kind of manipulation.
I just need to make myself stern and cold and only talk to her when she says the money is ready. That is the only solution rn.
So can you be cold enough and tell her that you don’t want to accompany her to the ATM at night, and that you only are willing to go with her if she has your next installment ($100)?
Or, I have a better idea. Why don’t you make a bargain with her. Something like this: “if I accompany you, and if there is less than 100 bucks, I am taking all the money there is on your account. Maybe I’ll let you keep $10. Because you dragged me to the ATM in vain. So if you do, I am warning you, next time I am taking all your money. Is it a deal?” Can you be cold enough to say that?
Because narcissists respond well only to blackmails and very strict boundaries (and if they experience the consequences of their actions). You can’t plea with them to be nice – you can only present them with the consequences, and then stick to those consequences. So next time she drags you to the ATM, she pays.
Back to your question about your friend:
Assuming u r right about the situation, do u think I should waste my time confronting him, especially knowing he could lie about the situation? Isn’t the best course of action to just be on my guard and trust no one?
I am not dumb enough to just blindly believe what B showed me. I am just going to keep my guard up until the guy does something stupid again.
You should first realize that she and your friend are not the same category of people. She is a narcissist, who is a toxic, manipulative and dangerous person. She is willing to exploit you and harm you to get what she wants. He is not like that. He may be stupid and led by his hormones, but he doesn’t have bad intentions. She does.
So the first person you need to be on guard around is her. You shouldn’t trust anything she tells you. Because everything can be a lie and a manipulation.
You shouldn’t necessarily be on guard with everyone, but with her, yes. Always and at all times.
I would still talk to him and hear his side of the story. Because if you don’t, you participate in her game, you side with her against him. And you should never side with a liar and a manipulator, specially not without checking the other side of the story.
June 16, 2024 at 3:21 am #433872TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
I just need to make myself stern and cold and only talk to her when she says the money is ready. That is the only solution rn.
Yes, that would be the best: to avoid the entire ATM game, and tell her to let you know when she has the money ready. It can be a monthly encounter, where she gives you $100, in which case you’d need to meet her 4 more times.
June 16, 2024 at 5:07 pm #433882ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“Because she seduced him over those 3 months? He couldn’t resist her? BTW did you explicitly tell him not to communicate with her after you two broke up? Because as far as I know, they were friends/acquaintances too – he didn’t know her only through you, right?” I find the seduction part very difficult to believe but what does that have to do with him fueling the fight between us? We already broke up so if he was interested in her, then talk about each other instead of talking about things that aren’t even true about me. And no, I did not tell him to not communicate with her because whoever she entertains is none of my business, nor do I care. I just want my money and I will be on my way.
“The person who is causing the fights is her – she is accusing you of having a poor choice of friends” Yes but she is also accusing me of cheating and etc, and that theory only came about cause of the misunderstandings that the guy created.
“Knowing her intentions, she didn’t appreciate the silence. Because she wants to lure you back in.” Yes I know that but I already told the guy that she is pestering me over foolishness and that I don’t want her to have more excuses to continue fighting me. He was the one who even suggested that I ignore her entirely so what is the logic behind him fueling the fights?
“So can you be cold enough and tell her that you don’t want to accompany her to the ATM at night, and that you only are willing to go with her if she has your next installment ($100)?” I can.
“Or, I have a better idea. Why don’t you make a bargain with her. Something like this: “if I accompany you, and if there is less than 100 bucks, I am taking all the money there is on your account. Maybe I’ll let you keep $10. Because you dragged me to the ATM in vain. So if you do, I am warning you, next time I am taking all your money. Is it a deal?” Can you be cold enough to say that?” I could say that, but she won’t agree to it. What then?
“I would still talk to him and hear his side of the story. Because if you don’t, you participate in her game, you side with her against him. And you should never side with a liar and a manipulator, specially not without checking the other side of the story.” Idk, I still don’t like the idea of trusting neither of them. I think it is just better to not trust anyone at all because at this point idk who can be trusted or not.
Paradoxy
June 16, 2024 at 11:26 pm #433885TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
I find the seduction part very difficult to believe
How come? She has a seductive vibe, doesn’t she? (and she contributes to that vibe by posting sexy pix, wearing sexy clothes etc). Why would it be hard to believe?
but what does that have to do with him fueling the fight between us?
He is not fueling fights. She started interrogating him after she stole your chat. She saw that you wrote a song for a girl in your class. And she asked him about that girl, and he might have told her that you are interested in her:
recently when B was talking to him again after reading our conversation, he told her that I was interested in someone, when I actually wasn’t,
But even if he didn’t tell her, she would have concluded it herself, because if someone writes a song for a girl, or is inspired by a girl, it would be logical to assume they are interested in her. So even if he told her “no, he is not interested, she just inspired him to write a song” – do you think she would have believed him? Of course not! If there is the slightest possibility that she can accuse you, she will.
So who is fueling those fights? She, by having stolen your chat and interrogating him about it, and seeking any opportunity to accuse you.
We already broke up so if he was interested in her, then talk about each other instead of talking about things that aren’t even true about me.
Haha, that’s not how things works with a narcissist. She was after you – that’s why she stole the chat in the first place. They started communicating because she started interrogating him about you and about the contents of the chat. So you were her target from the start. How would you not be the main topic of their discussion, at least in the beginning?
And no, I did not tell him to not communicate with her because whoever she entertains is none of my business, nor do I care. I just want my money and I will be on my way.
Okay, you didn’t ask him not to talk to her. And their conversation started by him defending himself to her. Don’t forget that. She was accusing him too of things, and again, every normal person starts defending themselves, specially if they are faced with unjust accusations. So she got him there – she pulled him into the conversation and got him to react. And from then on, she might have become all sweet and flirty with him, and he started changing his opinion about her…
I just want my money and I will be on my way.
I hope this is true, Paradoxy. I hope you’ve realized that there isn’t even a 1% chance of her changing and becoming a different person.
Yes but she is also accusing me of cheating and etc, and that theory only came about cause of the misunderstandings that the guy created.
No, that theory came from the chat she stole, and you having written a song for a girl.
He was the one who even suggested that I ignore her entirely so what is the logic behind him fueling the fights?
She pulled him in, by accusing him and making him defend herself. And then she switched up her tactics and became all sweet, presenting herself as your victim. Your friend was right in the beginning – before he started communicating with her. He saw it was best to ignore her. But then she managed to manipulate him and change his opinion of her. She messed up with his head (and his feelings), probably.
I can.
Good – then do that. I am sure she won’t like it, and will try to accuse you of being heartless etc etc. But try to stay strong, nevertheless, because you know that all those are manipulation tactics and she is using it to get what she wants from you.
I could say that, but she won’t agree to it. What then?
Then don’t say it. And besides, I’ve realized it might not even be a good idea, because she might leave only 10 dollars on her account, and then still make you accompany her, and then make a fool of you. Or just use the time spent together to start lure you back in. So no, that wasn’t a good idea. Better be firm with her and attempt as few meetings as possible.
Idk, I still don’t like the idea of trusting neither of them. I think it is just better to not trust anyone at all because at this point idk who can be trusted or not.
Yes, better not to trust either of them, specially because he might be “corrupted” by being in touch with her and being sold her version of the story. And so he might be giving her information about you, telling her what you said etc. So at this point, he is not to be trusted, unfortunately.
Still, I would like to differentiate between him and her, because as I said, they are not the same category of people. She is malevolent, he isn’t. And your relationship (between you and your guy friend) might be worth repairing. So you might want to ask him a few questions, like “I’ve heard you were speaking to B… and that you’ve become quite good friends”. Like try to snoop out a little, but diplomatically, without saying too much. I don’t know. I am not sure about it either.
But what I know is that they shouldn’t be treated the same – they are not the same kind of people, and if there is a chance in the future to repair the relationship, it might be worth it. Keeping things in the dark, keeping secrets, and letting the friendship slip away is probably not what you want. But for now, perhaps it’s better to pretend you know nothing. And indeed keep secrets from him, because he might not be a safe person to confide in at this point.
June 18, 2024 at 12:58 pm #433964ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“How come? She has a seductive vibe, doesn’t she? (and she contributes to that vibe by posting sexy pix, wearing sexy clothes etc). Why would it be hard to believe?” Yes but it seems highly exaggerated….
“But even if he didn’t tell her, she would have concluded it herself, because if someone writes a song for a girl, or is inspired by a girl, it would be logical to assume they are interested in her.” That is some bs cause a 10 year old girl inspired the melody for one of my songs, there is no way people can assume that I am a pedophile just cause my song was inspired by a child.
“So even if he told her “no, he is not interested, she just inspired him to write a song” – do you think she would have believed him?” It sure would be better than saying that I AM INTERESTED IN HER, even if B chose not to believe him. She would have kept the theory to herself but the guy gave her the confirmation needed for her to start a fight with her stupid theories.
“So who is fueling those fights?” She may be the main person who is providing the fuel for the fights, but I really dont need someone else helping her by adding to the fire.
“How would you not be the main topic of their discussion, at least in the beginning?” At least speak the truth about me instead of making up foolishness.
“No, that theory came from the chat she stole, and you having written a song for a girl.” Like I told u before, the cheating theory existed even before I made the song. But it was just a theory that held no evidence so she only brought it up once when the guy told her that I COULD be cheating. Now that theory resurfaced cause of the song but the original seed was planted by him.
“Better be firm with her and attempt as few meetings as possible.” Yeah I am working.
“Yes, better not to trust either of them, specially because he might be “corrupted” by being in touch with her and being sold her version of the story. And so he might be giving her information about you, telling her what you said etc. So at this point, he is not to be trusted, unfortunately.” But that’s the thing, he barely knows anything about me now. He has changed from how he was in high school. He has slept with like 20 women already and sleeping with them on rotation and though I don’t think B flirted with him, I am pretty sure she made him feel comfortable enough to talk about deep/intimate topics, enough to make him comfortable enough to hit on her as well.
“She is malevolent, he isn’t. And your relationship (between you and your guy friend) might be worth repairing.” I am being villanized by him now cause I had chosen to open up to him about what happened in January but now he is saying that I shouldn’t have told anyone about what happened in January and I shouldn’t have left B (“cause its not her fault”) and now I just feel sick to the bottom of my heart cause of everything that is happening.
“Keeping things in the dark, keeping secrets, and letting the friendship slip away is probably not what you want.” I don’t think I care anymore. I just want to be on my own now. Just bottling up all my feelings and never let anyone know what I go through. Feel like I should just maintain a professional relationship with him, cause he has definitely changed from who he was before and I am not the type to support him as he goes around sleeping with a bunch of people and doing foolishness.
I am just tired of everything. Wasting my energy for others. I wanted a real friend. But I dont think I will ever get that.
Paradoxy
June 19, 2024 at 1:01 am #433988TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
Yes but it seems highly exaggerated….
Maybe it seems like that for you, because you don’t want to believe it… because it would hurt a lot to believe it.
But I don’t find it hard to believe it, because she is someone who after only having known you for a short while, and very superficially, suggested that you could be her pretend husband.
If an attractive girl, after having learned that you’ve never been in a relationship, tells you to pretend to be husband and wife – what is it other than bold, crazy and… exaggerated? In fact, that was even more that exaggerated: it was rather shocking. It was quite a shocking statement to make. And incredibly seductive too.
So she was not only seductive, but bold (daring) and exaggerated in her attempt to seduce you. So I don’t see it as contrary to her personality, at all…
That is some bs cause a 10 year old girl inspired the melody for one of my songs, there is no way people can assume that I am a pedophile just cause my song was inspired by a child.
Didn’t you say it was a girl from your university class? And that you are starting to feel infatuated with her:
I really think that I am an idiot ngl, cause I think I am starting to have an infatuation for the girl that inspired me to make the song, the song that my ex was pissed about and accused me of cheating on her.
So it wasn’t some 10-year old after all…?
It sure would be better than saying that I AM INTERESTED IN HER, even if B chose not to believe him. She would have kept the theory to herself but the guy gave her the confirmation needed for her to start a fight with her stupid theories.
I’ve already explained that a narcissistic person is not interested in facts, but in winning and making the other person guilty. Remember she asked him whether you are cheating when you didn’t answer your phone because you were sleeping? That’s where her mind goes immediately: to blame and accuse, even if the other person is innocent.
If she indeed saw a chat about this girl that you are infatuated with and wrote a song to – then there is no argument to convince her of the opposite. And besides, maybe your guy friend really thought that you were interested in the girl – because you were? Because you yourself said you were infatuated by her?
At least speak the truth about me instead of making up foolishness.
If you wrote a song for a girl (not a 10-yr old, but someone in your class), and you are infatuated by her – is it a foolishness to believe that you are interested in her?
Like I told u before, the cheating theory existed even before I made the song. But it was just a theory that held no evidence so she only brought it up once when the guy told her that I COULD be cheating. Now that theory resurfaced cause of the song but the original seed was planted by him.
You still don’t understand how a narcissist’s mind works: she wanted to accuse you, and she will find anything to accuse you. She even thought that you were cheating when you didn’t pick up the phone in that incident.
The narcissists tend to project the things that they are guilty of (e.g. cheating) on others. So the “original seed” is in her: the suspicion, the paranoia, the tendency to accuse others. He only poured some water on that seed by saying “yeah maybe he’s interested in that girl”. And let’s face it – you yourself said you were infatuated… so perhaps he wasn’t even lying.
Yeah I am working.
Good to hear that…
But that’s the thing, he barely knows anything about me now.
Good that you’re not confiding in him at this point.
He has changed from how he was in high school. He has slept with like 20 women already and sleeping with them on rotation and though I don’t think B flirted with him, I am pretty sure she made him feel comfortable enough to talk about deep/intimate topics, enough to make him comfortable enough to hit on her as well.
Yeah, that’s a very likely scenario – that she made him feel comfortable to talk about relationships and open up.. . because they started their communication by talking about the relationship between you and her. So it was a natural progression, I guess.
But I wouldn’t exclude her being flirty either – perhaps not openly flirty like sending pursed lips photos, but more like sweet and agreeable, so that she can paint the image of herself as a kind, sweet person – and win him over.
I am being villanized by him now cause I had chosen to open up to him about what happened in January but now he is saying that I shouldn’t have told anyone about what happened in January and I shouldn’t have left B (“cause its not her fault”) and now I just feel sick to the bottom of my heart cause of everything that is happening.
So you are in touch with him at the moment? And he is accusing you of confiding in him about her prostitution? And he is blaming you for leaving her after she admitted she’s prostituted herself?
If so, she managed to turn him against you and present herself as the victim…
I don’t think I care anymore. I just want to be on my own now. Just bottling up all my feelings and never let anyone know what I go through. Feel like I should just maintain a professional relationship with him, cause he has definitely changed from who he was before and I am not the type to support him as he goes around sleeping with a bunch of people and doing foolishness.
Unfortunately it seems he betrayed you too – after having been manipulated by her. She managed to sell him the lie and win him over. :\ He became her flying monkey, so to speak (someone who parrots the narcissist’s lies and is on their side). Yeah, so if he became her flying monkey, and is blinded by her lies, it means you can’t really be his friend any more. You need to let him go.
I am just tired of everything. Wasting my energy for others. I wanted a real friend. But I dont think I will ever get that.
Ehh Paradoxy, I am sorry you got such a bad luck with your first ever romantic relationship. Being in a relationship with a narcissist is much worse than being in a normal relationship. And the breakup is much more difficult too, because these people can’t just let you go – because they always need to win. They are antagonistic and can’t bear that things are not going their way and that they need to bear the consequences of their bad behavior (like she has to now – by you not wanting to take her back). So she is making it difficult for you – much more than someone who is not narcissistic would do.
I am sorry you’re going through this, Paradoxy. And she has turned your friend against you too. Oh and btw: you said she used to complain about your choice of friends. Well, that’s another typical feature of narcissists: trying to isolate the person from their support group, so they rely only on the narcissist and their opinion. If she was criticizing your friends, that’s probably what she was trying to do.
Unfortunately, now she managed to win one of your friends over to her side, which is a pity. But if he is someone who likes to sleep around, I can imagine why a hot girl, who pretends to be sweet and innocent, can mess up with his head…
I wanted a real friend. But I dont think I will ever get that.
This was a very difficult period in your life, and it’s still ongoing – till you stop all contact with her. And stop being sensitive to her lies. You need to do a lot of healing, to heal the core wounds that made you tolerate her and allow to be manipulated by her (and doubt yourself) for such a long time.
Once you start healing, you’ll get better at recognizing toxic people like her. And you won’t fall for their lies and manipulation.
You’ll also find real friends. Don’t think this is forever. But it’s normal that for now, you prefer solitude, because it’s safer. There is a youtube video about it: Finding solace in solitude after a narcissistic relationship, by the same therapist I’ve mentioned earlier: Dr. Ramani. I strongly suggest watching her videos, because they can explain why you’re feeling the way you’re feeling.
June 19, 2024 at 2:51 pm #434024ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“Didn’t you say it was a girl from your university class?” Yes but that was for one song. A 10 year old girl inspired the melody for a different song, so I am saying that it would be stupid for people to assume that I am a pedophile just cause a 10 year old inspired one of my songs. And in the same way, it would be stupid for people to assume that I am in love with a female classmate just cause she inspired a song.
“And that you are starting to feel infatuated with her.” Yes, but that realization was a result of my own overthinking and I was only hit by that realization months after the incident. I wasn’t actively thinking about the girl at the time.
“Remember she asked him whether you are cheating when you didn’t answer your phone because you were sleeping? That’s where her mind goes immediately: to blame and accuse, even if the other person is innocent.” Yes I know that, but the guy’s response was like watering the seed and allowing it to grow inside her mind.
“If she indeed saw a chat about this girl that you are infatuated with and wrote a song to – then there is no argument to convince her of the opposite.” Nah she just saw that I made a song and that it was inspired by the girl and I asked the guy for his opinion on the song. She just came to the conclusion that because the girl inspired me to make a song, maybe I was emotionally/mentally cheating on her.
“And besides, maybe your guy friend really thought that you were interested in the girl – because you were? Because you yourself said you were infatuated by her?” I definitely didn’t say I was infatuated with her. I said that the girl has intrigued me and caught my attention but I specifically told him that it was nothing romantic or infatuation or anything like that.
“If you wrote a song for a girl (not a 10-yr old, but someone in your class), and you are infatuated by her – is it a foolishness to believe that you are interested in her?” But I SPECIFICALLY told the guy that I was not infatuated with her. I specifically told him not to get any wrong ideas, that I was just intrigued by her.
“So the “original seed” is in her: the suspicion, the paranoia, the tendency to accuse others. He only poured some water on that seed by saying “yeah maybe he’s interested in that girl”. And let’s face it – you yourself said you were infatuated… so perhaps he wasn’t even lying.” Ok fine, you are right about him watering the seed. But that was really unnecessary. I NEVER TOLD ANYONE THAT I WAS INFATUATED WITH THE GIRL. That was a realization I had MONTHS after the incident happened, and I told u when I came to that realization.
“But I wouldn’t exclude her being flirty either – perhaps not openly flirty like sending pursed lips photos, but more like sweet and agreeable, so that she can paint the image of herself as a kind, sweet person – and win him over.” Yea probably.
“So you are in touch with him at the moment? And he is accusing you of confiding in him about her prostitution? And he is blaming you for leaving her after she admitted she’s prostituted herself?” Yes we still talk. I just never confronted him about what he said to B. Accuse is the wrong term here but he is definitely saying that I am wrong for telling people about what happened to B because it is supposed to be something that I should have kept as a secret between B and I, and he is also saying that I am in the wrong for leaving her as well.
“If so, she managed to turn him against you and present herself as the victim…” Yea probably, and that makes me sick. I am just going to maintain a professional friendship with him now. But honestly, that pushes me back to being alone. I don’t have anyone to talk to or engage in any friendly conversation with. I am just sitting in my room studying and listening to music and etc but it definitely feels lonely.
“I strongly suggest watching her videos, because they can explain why you’re feeling the way you’re feeling.” Yea I will watch the video. But I can’t stop feeling like I am the issue. Cause a girl contacted me about music and stuff and my father told me that I should become friends with her since I don’t have anyone. So I tried and tried and tried and now we don’t even talk anymore. Idek where the hell I am going wrong. Do I lack communication skills? What the hell am I supposed to say when she tells me she is having a bad day? I asked her if she wants to talk about it and she would say no. What am I supposed to do when she says she has trouble falling asleep? So I asked her if she had any troubling thoughts bothering her, and then she just said bye. What am I supposed to do when she says she is in pain? I asked her what kind of pain it is and where the pain is located and she said she doesn’t want to talk about it. THEN WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? I am trying to respect her wishes but it’s not getting anywhere. The “friendship” has reached the point where she still talks to me cause “its the right thing to do” and not cause she actually wanted to. What about my feelings? What about my issues? Told me that we should just remain acquaintances and we should talk less. I just feel like a fool. And what is more annoying is that I have to keep trying to maintain a friendship with her because I don’t want my father to find out that this girl also rejected my friendship. Am I really that bad?
Paradoxy
June 19, 2024 at 11:30 pm #434040TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
Yes but that was for one song. A 10 year old girl inspired the melody for a different song, so I am saying that it would be stupid for people to assume that I am a pedophile just cause a 10 year old inspired one of my songs.
Nobody was saying that… I was referring to the song that was inspired by one of the girls in your university class. Which already might count as you being interested in her.
And in the same way, it would be stupid for people to assume that I am in love with a female classmate just cause she inspired a song.
The phrase you’ve been using so far was that your friend told B that you were interested in the girl who inspired you to write a song:
recently when B was talking to him again after reading our conversation, he told her that I was interested in someone, when I actually wasn’t
It sure would be better than saying that I AM INTERESTED IN HER,
He didn’t tell B that you were in love with her, only that you were interested. And you actually told him that you were intrigued by her:
I definitely didn’t say I was infatuated with her. I said that the girl has intrigued me and caught my attention but I specifically told him that it was nothing romantic or infatuation or anything like that.
So even if you told him that your being intrigued by her is not of a romantic kind, he still might have not believed you. Because let’s be frank: being intrigued by a girl, who caught your attention, and writing a song for her – definitely means interest of some kind.
So your friend wasn’t lying to B after all. What you’re doing now is trying to accuse him of something that isn’t his fault. Because even if you didn’t tell him that you were infatuated by her, you did tell him that you were intrigued by her. He wasn’t lying to B.
So will you own up to the fact that you expressed interest in that girl, or at least that writing a song for her and telling your friend that you were intrigued by her – could be interpreted as interest? Or you will keep denying any responsibility on your part in this particular incident? And keep accusing (unjustly accusing) your friend?
She just came to the conclusion that because the girl inspired me to make a song, maybe I was emotionally/mentally cheating on her.
Well yes, that’s already B’s imagination and malice – to accuse you of having been emotionally cheating while you were still in the relationship with her. Which is not true. Because you started being interested in that girl, or even paying attention to her, only after the breakup. And she is definitely not the cause of breakup, contrary to what B is accusing you of.
So B is falsely accusing you on that. It is malicious. But please note that you too are falsely accusing your friend of lying to B. He told her the truth, or what is close to truth: that you are interested or could be interested in that girl in the present time, in June of 2024, 3 months after the breakup with B. He didn’t tell her that you have been interested in her for months prior, or that you have been emotionally cheating on B.
It is B who used the information about the girl to falsely accuse you of having been emotionally cheating on her for months before, and that your interest in this girl have caused you to break up with her as well. So it is B who is inventing things and using a piece of information that is true to construct a narrative that is false and malicious.
It is not your friend’s fault that 1) B stole your chat, and 2) B is the kind of person who is fishing for any kind of information that she might use against you. He was honest with her, which was a mistake. But that in itself doesn’t make him a bad person.
Yes we still talk. I just never confronted him about what he said to B.
If you still talk, and you talk about B as well, you might as well tell him what B said about him.
Accuse is the wrong term here but he is definitely saying that I am wrong for telling people about what happened to B because it is supposed to be something that I should have kept as a secret between B and I, and he is also saying that I am in the wrong for leaving her as well.
“Accuse is the wrong term here” – Well, telling you that you are wrong for doing something you’ve done – is accusing.
“that I am wrong for telling people about what happened to B” – you were not telling everybody about B’s prostitution, but you only told him, whom was your best friend, and whom you used to confide in. So it’s not fair to say that you were telling it to everybody.
“He is also saying that I am in the wrong for leaving her as well”. – so he is repeating her narrative: that prostitution wasn’t her fault (“cause its not her fault”) and that you should have just accepted it and moved on. And kept pretending as if nothing happened, and kept having sex per usual.
This tells me that he became her flying monkey, unfortunately, because he accepted her false narrative. And the false narrative is that none of it is her fault, or her responsibility, and that it is even your and your parents’ fault for making her feel bad about herself and thus indirectly, “forcing” her to do the act. Which of course is bs and a very unfair accusation (and blame shifting, which is another narcissist tactics btw).
I am just going to maintain a professional friendship with him now.
Well, he is not keeping it professional with you, because he is talking about your relationship with B and even telling you what you should and shouldn’t have done. He is definitely not professional, but is talking about private stuff. More precisely, the stuff that you confided in him about back then, and that now he is claiming you’ve never should have done (parroting B’s opinion).
In fact, he should have never said to B that he knows she prostituted herself. That was a breach of your trust, because you never told him it’s okay to give away such confidential information, have you? Because it is a sensitive info, and if you told him in confidence – that was a breech of confidence.
I don’t think he did it on purpose back then, when you broke up. I guess he wanted to be “mean” and put her in her place (because he didn’t like her back then). But it wasn’t a nice thing to do, and yes, it was a breech of trust on his part.
So I see that the guy doesn’t know how to keep important things confidential, i.e. doesn’t know what is appropriate to share and what isn’t. He just blabbered it all out. And of course, B started attacking him about all that, and he started defending himself… and one thing led to the other. And now he became her flying monkey.
So he is foolish, and now he became her prey. That’s why I said he is a different type of person than her. But now he’s not a good company for you. So if you want to keep it professional with him, you shouldn’t let him talk about private stuff, such as lecturing you about B. You shouldn’t give him the privilege of accusing you for your supposed “sins”, while you are not mentioning his little secret: his hitting on B.
But honestly, that pushes me back to being alone. I don’t have anyone to talk to or engage in any friendly conversation with. I am just sitting in my room studying and listening to music and etc but it definitely feels lonely.
I am sorry about that, Paradoxy. It is a great trauma when your best friend and confidante suddenly starts believing lies about you and starts accusing you – because they fell pray to a narcissist.
THEN WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? … What about my feelings? What about my issues?
That’s the key: to become aware of your feelings and start healing your issues. You were always expected to be there for others and to suppress your own feelings and desires. Your parents taught you that. Your feelings were not important (and still are not important) to them. And so you’ve never learned empathy for yourself. And that’s why you ended up in a relationship with a narcissist – a person who per definition doesn’t have empathy for others (only for themselves).
Here is what Dr. Ramani said in the video I suggested (about finding solace in solitude):
The most important work of healing is individuation, coming into your own, finally giving yourself permission to fully be yourself. It’s that idea of authenticity: no longer feeling that you have to clip your wings, or your soul, in order for your relationship to work. As you heal and lean into that more authentic state, you will be able to better discern and stop living your life in the unbalanced state of chronic self-blame and self-doubt.
This would be the goal of your healing: individuation, finally giving yourself permission to fully be yourself. It is a huge goal, but you are young. Nevertheless, the sooner you start working on it, the better…
June 20, 2024 at 8:05 pm #434092ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“Nobody was saying that… I was referring to the song that was inspired by one of the girls in your university class.” Yes I know that. I am saying how could people assume that I was interested in her just cause she inspired the melody for a song?
“The phrase you’ve been using so far was that your friend told B that you were interested in the girl who inspired you to write a song” He said that I was ROMANTICALLY interested in the girl, which is why B assumed I was cheating on her.
“So even if you told him that your being intrigued by her is not of a romantic kind, he still might have not believed you. Because let’s be frank: being intrigued by a girl, who caught your attention, and writing a song for her – definitely means interest of some kind.” Lol that is why I said it won’t make sense cause I made a song for a 10 year old as well but that doesn’t make me a pedophile.
“So your friend wasn’t lying to B after all.” So making false assumptions doesn’t go along with lying? Would it be correct if I said that he should have kept his false assumptions to himself instead of telling B?
“So will you own up to the fact that you expressed interest in that girl, or at least that writing a song for her and telling your friend that you were intrigued by her – could be interpreted as interest?” I didn’t know that could be interpreted as ROMANTIC interest, ESPECIALLY after SPECIFICALLY stating that I was not romantically interested in the girl.
I know the guy is in the gray area rn, which is why I am forgiving him for his foolishness but I am not going to trust him again. Surprisingly, he messaged me today to “check up on me” for the first time in months. And I have a very sneaky suspicion that B might be using him to get to me, but that is just an assumption so I won’t think about it too deeply.
“He told her the truth, or what is close to truth: that you are interested or could be interested in that girl in the present time, in June of 2024, 3 months after the breakup with B. He didn’t tell her that you have been interested in her for months prior, or that you have been emotionally cheating on B.” No, he told B near the end of April, even before I realized any real interest developing for her. That is why it is stupid, because he came to this false assumption and shared it with B even before I started actively thinking about the girl. And I can’t even tell if it was his false assumption that indirectly made me start thinking about her anyway.
What is even more stupid is that I told the guy about another girl who intrigued me cause she is ALWAYS SMILING when she talks. So I just found it weird that she is able to smile so often despite how stressful med is and I shared that with him, but how come he didn’t assume I was romantically interested in her? And I pointed that out to B as well and now she is getting everything mixed up cause there is another girl who shares the same name as the girl who always smile and this girl happened to be an Indian while the smiling girl is Caribbean but B now assumes that I never loved her because she thinks that it was the Indian girl who intrigued me when it was actually the other girl who always smiled. This is some bs. Anyway, I managed to clarify all the confusion but I don’t think B believes me but we don’t talk anymore anyway so it doesn’t matter. B’s overthinking really is annoying.
““Accuse is the wrong term here” – Well, telling you that you are wrong for doing something you’ve done – is accusing.” Well accuse just seemed like a harsh term considering he made the comment like it was a suggestion.
“You were not telling everybody about B’s prostitution, but you only told him, whom was your best friend, and whom you used to confide in. So it’s not fair to say that you were telling it to everybody.” Yea, but he still thinks it’s wrong for me to have told him. And now I feel guilty cause it feels like I disrespected B by telling him.
“So he is repeating her narrative: that prostitution wasn’t her fault (“cause its not her fault”) and that you should have just accepted it and moved on. And kept pretending as if nothing happened, and kept having sex per usual.” Yea basically that is what he is saying.
“Well, he is not keeping it professional with you, because he is talking about your relationship with B and even telling you what you should and shouldn’t have done. He is definitely not professional, but is talking about private stuff. More precisely, the stuff that you confided in him about back then, and that now he is claiming you’ve never should have done (parroting B’s opinion).” Yeah but that conversation only happened once and I prefer to keep it that way for now.
“In fact, he should have never said to B that he knows she prostituted herself. That was a breach of your trust, because you never told him it’s okay to give away such confidential information, have you?” He said that he thought it would be okay since we had already broken up. He seems to have cracked under the pressure B was putting on him when she was hammering him with a lot of questions. Besides, it is kinda hypocritical for me to blame him cause B told me to keep the issue between us but I told the guy cause of the emotional stress I was under, so expecting him to keep it from B was not to be expected anyway. I breached the confidence that B and I had, so do I really have the right to criticize the guy for breaching the confidence between him and I?
“I don’t think he did it on purpose back then, when you broke up. I guess he wanted to be “mean” and put her in her place (because he didn’t like her back then). But it wasn’t a nice thing to do, and yes, it was a breech of trust on his part.” Nah he was definitely not trying to be mean, he just cracked under pressure when B asked him a thousand times about whether I told him what really happened.
“This would be the goal of your healing: individuation, finally giving yourself permission to fully be yourself. It is a huge goal, but you are young. Nevertheless, the sooner you start working on it, the better…” Yes I am working on that, but I have also realized that in order to make friends, I am the one who is forced to adapt to them. In fact I am the most malleable person I know, able to shift the way I think and process to accommodate others, but they are unable to do it for me. So are you saying that I should stop trying to make friends and just stick to myself and my healing? Cause even if I heal, I would end up chipping a part of me whenever I try to make a friend.
I am aware of my feelings and I am aware of my issues, which I am working on. But the main concern is that nobody else cares about how I feel. Nobody else cares about whether I am lonely, whether I feel disrespected or hurt or etc. That just seems unfair to me cause I am trying my best to understand others. Always trying to make sure that nobody is left behind. Often checking on others to make sure they are ok. But what about me? I am healing, but it just becomes ridiculous when I end up chipping myself every time I try to help others.
Paradoxy
June 21, 2024 at 7:23 am #434111TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
How could people assume that I was interested in her just cause she inspired the melody for a song?
Because men usually make serenades to the women they have feelings for? 🙂
But okay, if you are a professional musician, or aspire to be one, then anything can be an inspiration for a song, that’s true. So if you were inspired in a professional sense, then okay, I get it how you didn’t have any romantic interest and could stitll write a song about a girl. (Although be honest with yourself – you later started developing “infatuation” for her…. so a romantic interest has crept in, eventually).
Nevertheless, a bigger problem that I am noticing is you making such a huge deal of him telling this big “untruth” to B, when I am sure that even if he said you were not romantically interested in that girl, B would NOT have believed him. And would have used it to accuse you of cheating nevertheless. Because she doesn’t need much to accuse you, and you writing a song for a girl is definitely a “capital proof” for her. Even if your friend had tried to convince her of the opposite.
What I have been noticing so far (but perhaps it lessened a bit in your latest post) is that you are more angry at your friend than you are at B, who actually stole your chat and was interrogating your friend and is making false accusations against you whenever she can.
I think it’s very important to be clear who the real abuser is – who is the person who has really hurt you. Because if you get more angry at your friend (who is just a foolish guy whom she managed to manipulate) than at the real abuser, you won’t be able to heal properly.
I am glad that you see that he is in the gray zone though, and not some big villain. You’re even aware that he didn’t want to be mean when he told her he knows about her prostitution. But that she was actually interrogating him and making him confess everything he knows:
Nah he was definitely not trying to be mean, he just cracked under pressure when B asked him a thousand times about whether I told him what really happened.
So he broke under pressure – he didn’t want to (and probably couldn’t) lie. He didn’t tell her that to be mean, but because she was pressuring him to confess.
He said that he thought it would be okay since we had already broken up. He seems to have cracked under the pressure B was putting on him when she was hammering him with a lot of questions. Besides, it is kinda hypocritical for me to blame him cause B told me to keep the issue between us but I told the guy cause of the emotional stress I was under, so expecting him to keep it from B was not to be expected anyway. I breached the confidence that B and I had, so do I really have the right to criticize the guy for breaching the confidence between him and I?
Now that I know the full story – that she pressured him to confess – I can see that he didn’t intentionally breech the confidence, but that she was good in extorting the information from him. And he couldn’t lie. So forget what I said: he isn’t to be blamed for admitting.
he still thinks it’s wrong for me to have told him. And now I feel guilty cause it feels like I disrespected B by telling him.
Well, that’s what he thinks now, after she has “brainwashed” him. It wasn’t your fault to share that info with him, because he was your best friend and confidante, and as you said, you were under lot of emotional stress and needed to share it with someone (I told the guy cause of the emotional stress I was under).
She expected you to just accept it and behave as if nothing happened, whereas it was a huge deal and not just something to move on from easily. Specially since she was trying to put the blame on everybody else (you, your parents, her aunt), but not actually taking responsibility for it herself.
You were indeed under a lot of pressure – even being blamed for it. So please, don’t blame yourself for sharing it with your friend. It was too much to keep it for yourself.
Yeah but that conversation only happened once and I prefer to keep it that way for now.
he messaged me today to “check up on me” for the first time in months. And I have a very sneaky suspicion that B might be using him to get to me, but that is just an assumption so I won’t think about it too deeply.
Okay, you’ve got a point in not wanting to talk about it with him, since yes, he might be transmitting your messages to her. You better be careful, because if he is now agreeing with her, he has indeed become her flying monkey and should not be trusted.
What is even more stupid is that I told the guy about another girl who intrigued me cause she is ALWAYS SMILING when she talks. So I just found it weird that she is able to smile so often despite how stressful med is and I shared that with him, but how come he didn’t assume I was romantically interested in her?
Because you didn’t dedicate a song to her?
And I pointed that out to B as well and now she is getting everything mixed up cause there is another girl who shares the same name as the girl who always smile and this girl happened to be an Indian while the smiling girl is Caribbean but B now assumes that I never loved her because she thinks that it was the Indian girl who intrigued me when it was actually the other girl who always smiled. This is some bs. Anyway, I managed to clarify all the confusion but I don’t think B believes me but we don’t talk anymore anyway so it doesn’t matter. B’s overthinking really is annoying.
Haha, I don’t think you clarified all the confusion with her, because she thrives on accusing you. And as you can see, she is always finding new opportunities to accuse you.
BTW you are using the present tense: “now she is getting everything mixed up“, “B now assumes that I never loved her“. But you also say “we don’t talk anymore anyway”, so I do hope you haven’t been communicating in the past few days, and that you have managed to present yourself as cold and reserved to her?
Yes I am working on that, but I have also realized that in order to make friends, I am the one who is forced to adapt to them. In fact I am the most malleable person I know, able to shift the way I think and process to accommodate others, but they are unable to do it for me. So are you saying that I should stop trying to make friends and just stick to myself and my healing? Cause even if I heal, I would end up chipping a part of me whenever I try to make a friend.
Hmm, if you heal, you wouldn’t need to chip parts of yourself to make friends. You would make friends that appreciate you and accept you as you are.
I am aware of my feelings and I am aware of my issues, which I am working on.
How are you working on your issues, if I may ask? What are you doing for your healing?
But the main concern is that nobody else cares about how I feel. Nobody else cares about whether I am lonely, whether I feel disrespected or hurt or etc.
Well, I do care how you feel. I care about your healing as well. I know it’s not like having a friend irl, but just so you know – someone cares about your well-being.
That just seems unfair to me cause I am trying my best to understand others. Always trying to make sure that nobody is left behind. Often checking on others to make sure they are ok.
Yeah, you said you are an empath. Although you could have more empathy for your guy friend and less for your abuser. But you are showing more empathy for him in your latest post, and I am glad about that.
But what about me? I am healing, but it just becomes ridiculous when I end up chipping myself every time I try to help others.
You really want to know what would help you? I think it would help you if you could get angry at your abuser, Paradoxy. Abusers, actually. You know who they are. B is not the only one.
Because so far you had the tendency to appease your abusers and make excuses for them. You have been making excuses for B for months. Even believing that you are the bad guy, that you are to be blamed for her bad behavior. Until you’ve realized that she is the bad guy and that she doesn’t really care about your feelings (I hope you’ve realized that!).
So I think you would need less excuses and more realization that you don’t want to be abused any more. That you don’t deserve to be treated like that. That you shouldn’t need to negate yourself to be in a relationship with someone who supposedly loves you.
You’d need to realize that you deserve more. When I say get angry at your abusers, I don’t mean to show it to them, to attack them, either verbally or God forbid physically. No. I mean to feel the justified anger (because it is justified!) at how they were treating you. And then e.g. hit a punching bag.
Remember you wanted to hit a punching bag because you were angry at your friend? Well, the idea is to feel a similar kind of anger at your abusers. And then hit the punching bag (not them!).
Maybe this sounds too much, but directing your anger (in a safe, non-harmful way) where it is due is I think one of the best things you can do for your healing.
And what is more annoying is that I have to keep trying to maintain a friendship with her because I don’t want my father to find out that this girl also rejected my friendship. Am I really that bad?
No, you’re not that bad. This girl sounds spoiled because she was complaining about various things, but no matter what you said to help her, she refused everything. And is now only talking to you out of politeness and not because she wants to.
Well, it’s not your fault. But you automatically think it’s your fault. And you also fear your father’s reaction, as if it were your fault that a spoiled girl doesn’t want to talk to you.
May I remind you that you’ve got the right to not maintain friendship with someone you don’t like (or who doesn’t like you), even if your father objects. You’d need to start allowing yourself that much autonomy, because him trying to control whom you are talking to is a little bit too much, don’t you think?
June 21, 2024 at 8:44 pm #434127ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“Because men usually make serenades to the women they have feelings for?” Didn’t realize it could be that easily misunderstood.
“Although be honest with yourself – you later started developing “infatuation” for her…. so a romantic interest has crept in, eventually” Yes but at the same time I feel like it is just my own overthinking that developed from the misunderstanding, cause the romantic interest crept in months later, and I barely know this girl. Even I only became self aware months after the guy made his assumption.
“Nevertheless, a bigger problem that I am noticing is you making such a huge deal of him telling this big “untruth” to B, when I am sure that even if he said you were not romantically interested in that girl, B would NOT have believed him.” B might not have believed him but she wouldn’t have had the motivation to start another fight regarding it and ruin my peace.
“What I have been noticing so far (but perhaps it lessened a bit in your latest post) is that you are more angry at your friend than you are at B, who actually stole your chat and was interrogating your friend and is making false accusations against you whenever she can.” I was angry at him whenever I found out the foolishness he did, but I have forgiven him for his actions but dont expect me to trust him again. That is all I am saying.
“I think it’s very important to be clear who the real abuser is – who is the person who has really hurt you. Because if you get more angry at your friend (who is just a foolish guy whom she managed to manipulate) than at the real abuser, you won’t be able to heal properly.” We already made it clear that B is the real abuser but that doesn’t excuse the guy for the things he did. My anger for him is not larger than B, but that doesn’t make me not angry. I still have anger, it is just not that big compared to the anger I have for B.
“So he broke under pressure – he didn’t want to (and probably couldn’t) lie. He didn’t tell her that to be mean, but because she was pressuring him to confess.” Yes, I understand that he broke under pressure, but that still doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve to be blamed for what happened next.
“Now that I know the full story – that she pressured him to confess – I can see that he didn’t intentionally breech the confidence, but that she was good in extorting the information from him. And he couldn’t lie. So forget what I said: he isn’t to be blamed for admitting.” Firstly, what do u mean he couldn’t lie? He couldn’t lie to a girl he barely knew? Secondly, it is my ASSUMPTION that he broke under her pressure. Cause all I know is that she asked him a lot of questions, I don’t know if he made any effort to not feed her unnecessary information. But even if he did break under pressure, it still doesn’t change the fact that he is still to be blamed for telling her his assumptions instead of real facts.
“She expected you to just accept it and behave as if nothing happened, whereas it was a huge deal and not just something to move on from easily.” Her reasoning is that it was her trauma and I had no right to share it because it happened to her, not me.
“Because you didn’t dedicate a song to her?” Lol I didn’t dedicate the song, the girl just inspired the main melody. Thats it. How the hell do I dedicate a song to a girl that I barely know?
“BTW you are using the present tense: “now she is getting everything mixed up“, “B now assumes that I never loved her“. But you also say “we don’t talk anymore anyway”, so I do hope you haven’t been communicating in the past few days, and that you have managed to present yourself as cold and reserved to her?” No, that part happened like 2-3 weeks ago, I just kept the present tense since it is still relatively recent. We haven’t talked in a while now and the last time I talked to her, I was cold to her.
“You would make friends that appreciate you and accept you as you are.” At this point, I don’t think such friends exist.
“How are you working on your issues, if I may ask? What are you doing for your healing?” I am indulging in my music production, reading a lot about communication skills and stuff. Apparently I could have Asperger’s syndrome? The symptoms seemed to match with me but I don’t like to do self diagnosis so I am just going to let it be, but it does explain why my communication skills are so bad and why nobody wants to talk to me. Instead of blurting out my anger to certain people, I write it down and then read over it and make changes to it so that I am better at expressing myself and then I decide whether or not I should express myself to anyone because I have also realized that nobody gives a damn anyway so I should just release my anger in the form of writing instead of trying to make people understand.
“Well, I do care how you feel. I care about your healing as well. I know it’s not like having a friend irl, but just so you know – someone cares about your well-being.” Thank you, I appreciate it.
“Although you could have more empathy for your guy friend and less for your abuser. But you are showing more empathy for him in your latest post, and I am glad about that.” I understand the circumstances he might have been in, but u can never be 100% sure about these things. Though I forgive him for his foolishness, I am not going to trust him the way I did before.
“You really want to know what would help you? I think it would help you if you could get angry at your abuser, Paradoxy. Abusers, actually. You know who they are. B is not the only one.” I AM ANGRY. I just can’t express my anger. Cause the anger towards B comes out in the form of verbal abuse and then I become the abuser, and when it is to my parents, it comes out as disrespect. So all I can do is just bottle up my anger. It is so annoying when you find yourself shaking with anger in the middle of a church sermon cause of the memories of everything that has happened.
“Because so far you had the tendency to appease your abusers and make excuses for them. You have been making excuses for B for months. Even believing that you are the bad guy, that you are to be blamed for her bad behavior. Until you’ve realized that she is the bad guy and that she doesn’t really care about your feelings (I hope you’ve realized that!).” I am not actually trying to make excuses, I am just trying to factor in every possible outcome cause we can never be 100% sure that our assumptions are correct. So when I consider all the possibilities, I end up being more lenient and forgiving.
“Remember you wanted to hit a punching bag because you were angry at your friend? Well, the idea is to feel a similar kind of anger at your abusers. And then hit the punching bag (not them!).” Yea I am directing that anger into running now since I dont have a real punching bag.
“This girl sounds spoiled because she was complaining about various things, but no matter what you said to help her, she refused everything. And is now only talking to you out of politeness and not because she wants to.” No she doesn’t seem to be spoiled. She is the oldest of the three sisters and her father raised her in a manner where she is responsible for all the chores and everything. So basically she experienced a lot of hardships in her life, her siblings would be the spoilt ones. Besides she says she doesn’t want to talk about her issues because she might end up regretting it. Says it is cause of what she is going through in life rn. BUT HOW DO U EXPECT ME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT SHE IS GOING THROUGH IF SHE DOESN’T SAY ANYTHING TO ME???? She is so complex that even I don’t know how to describe her, I would have to show u the conversations itself for u to understand how hard it is for me to talk to her.
“Well, it’s not your fault. But you automatically think it’s your fault. And you also fear your father’s reaction, as if it were your fault that a spoiled girl doesn’t want to talk to you.” Yea but look at the logic. U know the saying that if one student fails, then it’s the student’s fault but if every student fails, then it is the teacher’s fault. In the same way, if EVERYONE rejected my friendship, then obviously it has to mean that I am the one doing wrong. That is how my father views it as well. And I am going to Florida in August and knowing him, he is going to force me into an uncomfortable position to talk to the girl in person. Lol I am literally praying that he forgets about her, but I don’t think that is possible. Another thing is that this girl AND her best friend rejected my friendship. And my dad already knows about her best friend, and he is already trying to convince me to talk to her best friend again. I am not going to let myself be disrespected again bruh.
“May I remind you that you’ve got the right to not maintain friendship with someone you don’t like (or who doesn’t like you), even if your father objects. You’d need to start allowing yourself that much autonomy, because him trying to control whom you are talking to is a little bit too much, don’t you think?” Yes I know that. But he is trying to “help” me make friends AND he is going to ask too many questions if I tell him what happened between me and her. And then I would have to sit through an hour long lecture of him advising me. He might even check through my phone (he was already doing that when I was home few weeks ago). He is going to abuse his parental authority on me and I just want peace rn, not unnecessary drama. How do u expect me to go against his authority as a parent???
Paradoxy
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