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Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality?

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  • This topic has 165 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 1 day ago by Tee.
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  • #431778
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I’d like to comment on some of your thoughts, because it seems you believe that your lying and deception about her ex is the same as you lying about having received a message from you high school crush.

    She is referring to my high school crush incident that I shared with you which unfortunately looks like I lied, from her perspective.

    Let’s see: you received a message from your high school crush and family friend (a girl named Pryanka, right?), practically flirting with you because she asked you if you cook, and when you said only pasta and noodles, she said you should cook for her some day. You declined the offer and deleted the entire conversation because you didn’t want to be unfaithful to B:

    one of my crushes from high school (who is a family friend so we still talk) asked me about how college life was and whether I cook and stuff and I told her that I cook simple meals like pasta and noodles and she told me that I should cook for her one day. I obviously declined that offer. B saw those messages and couple days later asked me about what I would do if a female asked me to cook for her. And my stupid self completely forgot about the conversation with the girl as I had decided to keep her out of my life by deleting everything related to her (including that conversation).

    So by deleting that conversation, your intention was to remove even the slightest possibility that you would get tempted by this girl. Your intention was to be 100% faithful to B, with no distractions and no temptations. You lied to B about it because you didn’t even want to make it a topic of discussion, since you in your mind and heart were resolute not to engage in it and to nip in the bud. Would you agree with that?

    B on the other hand lied to you about being in a situation where cheating with her ex was highly likely, because they both had feelings for each other, and they were living under the same roof. So her lying was to hide the ongoing cheating, or a possibility for cheating – her lying was to hide a potential foul play. Whereas your lying was to not even start the entire topic, because it was a non-issue for you, and you didn’t have the slightest intention to cheat.

    Can you see the difference in those two cases of lying? She lied with the intention to hide a potential foul play, while you lied because you wanted to spare her of jealousy and worry, since you knew that there would have been no basis for her jealousy and worry (because you were 100% faithful). And perhaps you lied also to spare yourself of her false accusations.

    So those were two totally different categories of lying, with a different intent.

    But she made them equal. She equated her foul intention (to possibly cheat) with your pure intention (not to upset her about something that is a non-issue).

    There was another situation, where she too unfairly accused you of lying and possibly cheating, just because you confided in your close friend about fighting with her:

    She had told me not to tell my only other close friend that we broke up, but in a weak emotional moment, I told him that we were fighting. She found out and she told me that I lied to her and made her look like a fool. She also said that if I am able to hide her from my parents for two years, then I can also hide a “bitch” from her too (implying that I would cheat).

    This is another such outrageous twisting of the truth, where she equated your inability to hide the truth from your friend with deceptive lying (which she was a master of). And then she had the audacity to further escalate it and accuse you of potential cheating as well.

    You see? She equated your inability to hide the truth with her lying and twisting of the truth – as if those were the same categories.

    Where they are completely opposite. In fact, according to the Bible (and common ethics), the former is not a sin, whereas the latter is a sin.

    She was equating your non-sinful lying (which would be equal to saying a white lie) with her sinful, deceptive lying. And then saying “we both lied”, “we are equal”. Whereas this cannot be further from the truth.

     

    #431779
    Tee
    Participant

    * correction in the first sentence: that her lying and deception about her ex

    #431818
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    “I don’t think so, since she has already moved onto someone else” Apparently she blocked him? So idk.

    “And she is already twisting the truth to the new guy, telling him you broke up a few months ago, which is not true, because you broke up beginning of April, right?” No we broke up mid March, like right before this thread started. So approximately one month has passed.

    “I see this letter as her “parting gift”, in which she repeats once again all of her “grievances” against you, and blames you for her own actions.” She still tortures me even today. I went to her place to collect my things and while I was packing, she accessed my phone and saw a conversation with me to my guy friend where I made a song that was inspired by a girl in my class. Now she thinks I was cheating on her and she believes that B and I actually broke up cause I was interested in another girl instead of her own actions.

    She said “You dont have to over complicate things. And dont feel bad because it hasnt even been a month good and you have moved on. That is why you boldly gave me that ultimatum on the night when i went to you to discuss things when you left. Because you knew she was already in the picture. But you just felt guilty.” This is really stupid because I made the song last Friday and she just inspired the main melody for the song. Even though she is so wrong, she hit my ego really really hard and I don’t like it. She has successfully hit me where I am most vulnerable.

    It is like the saying “Imagine being bitten by a snake and instead of trying to help yourself heal and recover from the poison, you’re trying to catch the snake to find out the reason it bit you and prove to it that you didn’t deserve that.” I can’t seem to be able to get myself out of that mindset.

    “I hope that you’re not entertaining the thought of reconciling again?” No, definitely not. But she is hitting me hard where it hurts the most and idk how to deal with it. The way she describes everything just makes me question my reality and doubt everything I have done and it is driving me further into depression cause everything I did and trying to do seems pointless.

    I want to let her go, but the issue is that she has all kinds of excuses to not give me my stuff. She claims that my clothes are some place else being washed and that she still needs my laptop and stuff. It is pissing me off. I just want to block her but she keeps hitting my ego when she keeps making false accusations which then gives me the urge to fight her and prove to her how wrong she is. I don’t like the feeling of being made to look like the abuser while she pretends to be the victim. Besides, I don’t have the heart to forcefully take my stuff from her because at the end of the day she is a human and I don’t want to feel guilty like a landlord who left a family on the streets for not paying the rent cause of their financial struggles.

    I don’t want to give her the sense of satisfaction that she was right about me all along (even if she is not right in reality), which causes me to keep trying to prove her wrong.

    “And refrain from replying to her letter, because it will be futile, and you’ll risk getting entangled in another round of pointless, exhausting arguments (that are aimed at blaming you and portraying you as the bad guy).” Unfortunately I did. I am sorry Tee I feel like an idiot for not knowing better. The thing is I know better but I have a lot of pride and I can’t seem to let go of it. I don’t want to give her the satisfaction of believing that she was right all along. I know that I am behaving like I don’t learn from my mistakes Tee please forgive me.

    As for the issue with my high school crush,

    “So by deleting that conversation, your intention was to remove even the slightest possibility that you would get tempted by this girl. Your intention was to be 100% faithful to B, with no distractions and no temptations. You lied to B about it because you didn’t even want to make it a topic of discussion, since you in your mind and heart were resolute not to engage in it and to nip in the bud. Would you agree with that?”

    The issue is that I didn’t lie at all, I just forgot about the conversation cause it happened a week ago or something but it just so happened that I deleted the entire chat history on the same day that B found out about the conversation, which makes it appear as if I deleted it to hide the conversation. And on top of that, I still had her contact on other social media. So B thinks that if I really wanted to cut ties with my high school crush, I would have blocked her on all social media instead of simply deleting the conversation. I didn’t delete her on all social media cause I barely ever talked to her and I forgot that I even had her contact. But B doesn’t believe any of that and it is sickening cause there is nothing I can do to prove the truth to her.

    “Can you see the difference in those two cases of lying? She lied with the intention to hide a potential foul play, while you lied because you wanted to spare her of jealousy and worry, since you knew that there would have been no basis for her jealousy and worry (because you were 100% faithful). And perhaps you lied also to spare yourself of her false accusations.” EVEN IF I WAS LYING, THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE MY INTENTIONS. That is what I hate the most.

    I know what she is trying to do, so why is it so easy for me to fall for her manipulation? I am so tired of her. Idk what to do.

    Paradoxy

    #431823
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I know that I am behaving like I don’t learn from my mistakes Tee please forgive me.

    I am sorry you are suffering so much, and I am not judging you at all. I know how it is to do things that are self-destructive, or against our best interests, but to keep doing them still, to not be able to stop. It’s like an addiction, it’s stronger than us.

    The thing is I know better but I have a lot of pride and I can’t seem to let go of it. I don’t want to give her the satisfaction of believing that she was right all along.

    It is like the saying “Imagine being bitten by a snake and instead of trying to help yourself heal and recover from the poison, you’re trying to catch the snake to find out the reason it bit you and prove to it that you didn’t deserve that.” I can’t seem to be able to get myself out of that mindset.

    Okay, so you are aware that she is like a snake, but you still have the urge to prove it to her that you didn’t deserve to be bitten – that you are a good person, right?

    Because she is portraying you as a bad person, as an abuser, and you want to prove it to her that she is wrong. So I guess you want to prove it to her that you are a good, loving person. That your intentions are pure, right?

    EVEN IF I WAS LYING, THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE MY INTENTIONS. That is what I hate the most.

    Okay, so you want to prove it – to her – that your intentions are pure. I see a theme, the main striving of yours: to prove that you are a good person and that your intentions are pure. Would that be true?

    Even though she is so wrong, she hit my ego really really hard and I don’t like it. She has successfully hit me where I am most vulnerable.

    But she is hitting me hard where it hurts the most and idk how to deal with it. The way she describes everything just makes me question my reality and doubt everything I have done and it is driving me further into depression cause everything I did and trying to do seems pointless.

    It seems to me that the place you are most vulnerable is believing (at least a part of you believes it) that you are bad. That you are an abuser. That you cause other people pain. And that’s exactly one of your false core beliefs, which we’ve identified before: “I am the source of pain for others.”

    So the dynamic is: one part of you (your inner child) believes he is a source of pain for others. And he is trying to prove that he isn’t. He is trying to prove that he is a good, loving boy, with pure intentions, and that he doesn’t want to hurt anybody.

    The problem is that he is trying to prove that to people who lack empathy and understanding. People who are unable to understand. People who refuse to listen. People who are accusing him, instead of seeing how hurtful their behavior is.

    And who are these people? B. And your parents.

    So that’s what you are dealing with, Paradoxy. A childhood wound that you are trying to heal with the wrong means.

    As you said, you have been wounded (by a snake), and instead of tending to the wound, you are trying to catch the snake and prove it to her that you didn’t deserve to be bitten. That you are a good guy, with pure intentions, who doesn’t want to cause her pain.

    Does the snake listen, is she trying to understand? No, she bites you once again… and again… finding more and more “proofs” how bad and insincere you are.

    And so, by engaging with the snake, your inner child gets wounded more and more. With each interaction, he gets a confirmation of his false belief: that he causes pain to others.

    That’s why this is happening:

    The way she describes everything just makes me question my reality and doubt everything I have done and it is driving me further into depression cause everything I did and trying to do seems pointless.

    Exactly. Because in the interaction with the snake, the wound of your inner child gets deeper. And it causes you to feel even more helpless and depressed.

    So what’s the way out? You need to tend to the wound of your inner child, properly. Which means: you need to stop interacting with the snake. Stop wanting any kind of validation from her. Get away from her. There is nothing she can give you except injuring you even more.

    Can you see that?

    And then you need to start healing your inner child. Which means: start loving yourself. Start having empathy and compassion for yourself – something that neither your parents or B had.

    You need to give yourself empathy, rather than seek empathy from people who are unable to give it.

    How does this sound?

     

    #431842
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    Thank you for understanding Tee.

    “Okay, so you are aware that she is like a snake, but you still have the urge to prove it to her that you didn’t deserve to be bitten – that you are a good person, right?” Yes that is precisely it. But I think I am doing it for myself too. Because the things she say makes me question myself and doubt my intentions when making decisions. Proving her wrong gives me some form of inner peace. I want to prove that my intentions were pure, even if some of my decisions were poorly made.

    “So the dynamic is: one part of you (your inner child) believes he is a source of pain for others. And he is trying to prove that he isn’t. He is trying to prove that he is a good, loving boy, with pure intentions, and that he doesn’t want to hurt anybody.” Yes that is precisely what is happening. I never wanted to hurt anyone. But talking to B is reminding me of all the persons who looked down on me, the list is not limited to the stories that I have told you about my past cause other small incidents occurred that doesn’t have a major impact but it still ended the same way as everyone else. Even with the case with Anita, it was not my intention to hurt her, but in the end that is what I did and I am to be blamed for that.

    “Does the snake listen, is she trying to understand? No, she bites you once again… and again… finding more and more “proofs” how bad and insincere you are.” She bit me again last night. Apparently she exported my entire chat with my guy friend while I was unaware (I don’t have the habit of deleting things because I’ve never had anything to hide, which she knew) and she had been reading through my several year long chat with him, making false assumptions about things that I said, and now she thinks I fell out of love way before I found out about the January incident and she believes I had been cheating on her with the girl that inspired me to make a song, and more false accusations. Unfortunately I have no evidence to prove her wrong and hearing her make these false accusations just keeps breaking me more and more. I have not slept one bit last night cause of the things she said. I have been crying all night, screaming in anger and frustration and agony, asking God what I did to deserve all of this. She just reminded me of how they all looked at me, my parents, my bullies, my classmates, the people I tried to make friends with. The more and more I realized that I was actually alone and the realization was breaking me cause I really had no one. Memories of them all saying the same thing, about me being useless, about me being a burden to them, about me being a problem they don’t want to deal with. Memories of everyone pushing me away, persons I saw as my own brothers and sisters at one point, ignoring me even when all I did was say hi, pushing me away, even to the point they even started blocking me. Even Anita got tired of me, that just goes to show that maybe I am the issue. I dont remember if I said this before but there is saying that in a classroom, if one student fails, then it is the student’s fault. But if everyone failed, then it is the teacher’s fault. So since everyone had the same reaction to me, maybe I am the problem?

    “So what’s the way out? You need to tend to the wound of your inner child, properly. Which means: you need to stop interacting with the snake. Stop wanting any kind of validation from her. Get away from her. There is nothing she can give you except injuring you even more. Can you see that?” Yes I can see that, but unfortunately I am the type of guy who is always willing to help someone in need without expecting anything in return, no matter what kind of grudge I have against them. It is my form of revenge to be precise, trying to prove that they were all wrong about me. That is why I end up still responding to her when she asks me for help or when she comes to me for comfort, because despite everything she said, she knows that I am the only person who understands her the most.

    “You need to give yourself empathy, rather than seek empathy from people who are unable to give it. How does this sound?” How do you even give yourself empathy? I will try to heal from all of this, but I think I need to change myself as a person overall.

    Paradoxy

    #431847
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    That is why I end up still responding to her when she asks me for help or when she comes to me for comfort, because despite everything she said, she knows that I am the only person who understands her the most.

    What kind of comfort does she want from you, and in what form?

    Apparently she exported my entire chat with my guy friend while I was unaware (I don’t have the habit of deleting things because I’ve never had anything to hide, which she knew) and she had been reading through my several year long chat with him, making false assumptions about things that I said, and now she thinks I fell out of love way before I found out about the January incident and she believes I had been cheating on her with the girl that inspired me to make a song, and more false accusations

    I am appalled by the fact that she secretly exported your private conversation with your guy friend, and is now dissecting it and accusing you of all kinds of things. That’s so utterly wrong! I have no words!

    despite everything she said, she knows that I am the only person who understands her the most.

    No, dear Paradoxy. She knows that she can bite you endlessly and drain your energy. She maybe not only wants your money but to bleed you out completely, to see you powerless and defeated. This is what you said in the very beginning of your thread:

    I treated her well to the best of my ability too. I stood by her in all of her struggles, helping her through her classes and helping her financially. As a med student, I don’t have time to go work a part time job so all i have is the money i saved up working over the years of my youth so I would even starve myself to ensure that she does not starve.

    By offering her your help and “comfort”, after everything she has done to hurt you, you are actually offering yourself on her altar, to be sacrificed. I am sorry for using such morbid metaphors, but this is what it seems like, Paradoxy. You are offering to willingly bleed out for her – maybe not financially anymore, but emotionally yes. Because this is what is happening:

    Unfortunately I have no evidence to prove her wrong and hearing her make these false accusations just keeps breaking me more and more. I have not slept one bit last night cause of the things she said. I have been crying all night, screaming in anger and frustration and agony, asking God what I did to deserve all of this.

    So you are clearly suffering, she is destroying you emotionally, but at the same time you believe that being kind to a snake will change her mind about you:

    I am the type of guy who is always willing to help someone in need without expecting anything in return, no matter what kind of grudge I have against them. It is my form of revenge to be precise, trying to prove that they were all wrong about me.

    It’s not revenge, Paradoxy, because you are bleeding out, while trying to prove to the snake that you are a good guy. She will never admit that you are a good person, even if you let her bite you 100 times. She will only think that you are a fool. That you’re stupid and naive. Don’t think she has any respect for you. She is just using you, that’s all.

    You would need to understand that you sacrificing yourself to her, till you bleed out completely, will not prove anything. It will only prove (to her) that you are a fool. It certainly won’t prove that you are a good and selfless person.

    Whereas you are a good and selfless person indeed. But you are knocking at the wrong door.

    Can you see that? That you need to stop helping her, because she will never acknowledge how good of a person you are, even if you sacrifice your all for her?

    I’ll reply to the rest of your post a bit later…

     

    #431849
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    “What kind of comfort does she want from you, and in what form?” She comes to me whenever her work is over to rant about how her day went and etc and she likes talking about her problems to me but it is just comfort through texting, nothing more.

    “I am appalled by the fact that she secretly exported your private conversation with your guy friend, and is now dissecting it and accusing you of all kinds of things.” She did it because on that day, I had told my friend that I would be going to her place to collect my stuff, and he joked that I should let him know if I need backup in case she resists. She saw the notification and instantly started looking through the chat. I had shared with him the song that was inspired by the girl to ask him about his opinion on it and when she found out about that, she accused me of cheating on her and decided to secretly export the entire chat so she can go through all of it in her own time.

    “You are offering to willingly bleed out for her – maybe not financially anymore, but emotionally yes.” Yes I realized that but my stupid self does not like being cold to people in general. I am always kind and that kindness is my weakness here. I am being kind cause I don’t want the guilt to be nagging at me later on. It is like a pain for me cause I could walk by a beggar on the street and if he begs me for money and I say no, I end up constantly thinking about what the beggar said and wondering why I said no and also wondering if I should go back and give him some money.

    I am planning to cut my ties to her as soon as I get my stuff back, but she keeps bringing up excuses and asking for more time. She doesn’t have enough money to get a new laptop for her work so she can’t give me back my laptop and I will get in trouble if I don’t get the laptop back so I can’t just let her have it for free.

    Paradoxy

    #431867
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    She comes to me whenever her work is over to rant about how her day went and etc and she likes talking about her problems to me but it is just comfort through texting, nothing more.

    So sometimes she just complains about her stuff and you are her shoulder to cry on, but sometimes she steals private conversations from your phone and accuses you of your supposed “crimes” against her? So you are there to comfort her and have a nice word for her (i.e. be kind and supportive to her), but also to listen and agonize about her false accusations of you.

    How perfect for her – you indeed giving your all, and she taking it all and accusing you that it’s not enough, that you are a bad person, with bad intentions, that you stopped loving her way earlier etc etc.

    See? You are never enough, never worthy of her respect, no matter what you do.

    But also, I would be careful of whatever she tells you about her problems at work and her supposed difficulties, because she has a habit of lying. I wouldn’t trust anything she says.

    Just an example: She told you that her rich old guy friend, who visited from Spain, has pancreatic cancer (or some other deadly disease) and is close to his death:

    she had already informed me about being invited by her girlfriends to go the concert and the guy friend was visiting from Spain after several years and it was the first time in a while he came to visit.

    these men are like 60 or 70 years old, even her guy friend is married and close to his death (I think he has pancreatic cancer but I don’t remember exactly).

    Well, someone with pancreatic cancer or any life threatening condition wouldn’t be able to travel from Spain to the Caribbeans to have fun at a pool party. Pancreatic cancer is the worst type, in the sense that it’s usually diagnosed when it’s already too late, and it takes the person away in a matter of months. So no way that he would be able to make such a trip.

    Even if it’s not a pancreatic cancer but another life threatening disease, you don’t travel across the world, specially not without your loved ones (she said the guy is married). People with cancer do tend to travel with their loved ones to make memories, while they still can (before the disease has spread), but it’s always with their loved ones, not to have fun as a bachelor, with their male buddies. And it’s always to destinations closer to home, where they can access hospital if necessary, not across the Atlantic.

    So, on both of those accounts, B’s story is a total fake. No way a terminally ill guy, who is married, would travel across the Atlantic to have a private party at the pool with his male friend and young local girls.

    So… why would she be honest about anything else? Why would you believe any of her supposed “hardships” at work, with bad employers who want to take advantage of her, etc etc? It can all be fabricated. Perhaps not all, but you cannot tell for sure. Would a snake tell the truth?

    Just that fact (her tendency to lie and fabricate things) would be a reason for me not to listen to anything she says, not to try to comfort her, not to try to help her. You were trying till now, but now it’s time to stop. Now your goal is to be strategic and get your laptop back, without engaging with her too much emotionally.

    I am planning to cut my ties to her as soon as I get my stuff back, but she keeps bringing up excuses and asking for more time. She doesn’t have enough money to get a new laptop for her work so she can’t give me back my laptop and I will get in trouble if I don’t get the laptop back so I can’t just let her have it for free.

    Yes, and that’s typical of her. More lies and excuses. She probably isn’t even planning to give you back your laptop. I wouldn’t be surprised if she came up with some lie about what happened to it, e.g. that it got stolen or something. Sorry, but I wouldn’t trust her one single thing.

    She doesn’t have enough money to get a new laptop for her work

    Why doesn’t her employer provide her with a laptop? It’s certainly not your duty. What is for sure is that you don’t need to stand by and tolerate her emotional abuse and false accusations, while at the same time being her shoulder to cry on and allowing that she is not returning your belongings and is finding excuses to drag the entire thing.

    my stupid self does not like being cold to people in general. I am always kind and that kindness is my weakness here. I am being kind cause I don’t want the guilt to be nagging at me later on. It is like a pain for me cause I could walk by a beggar on the street and if he begs me for money and I say no, I end up constantly thinking about what the beggar said and wondering why I said no and also wondering if I should go back and give him some money.

    This tells me that you don’t have any boundaries. Your parents never allowed you to have a will of your own, you had to do what you were told, no questions asked. You were not allowed to say No, to reject what you don’t like, and to go for what you do like. A simple example: you were forced to sit with adults and listen to their discussions, when you wanted to go out and play, like every other kid.

    You were also taught that saying No means that you are a bad and selfish person. If you don’t comply with your parents’ wishes, you are a bad and selfish person. And so whenever you feel like saying No, you feel guilty about it.

    That’s why, if a snake accuses you (falsely) of being a bad and selfish person, you believe her. And you try to be kind to her. Instead of protecting yourself from further abuse.

    How do you even give yourself empathy? I will try to heal from all of this, but I think I need to change myself as a person overall.

    It just occurred to me: having boundaries is a key aspect of self-love. Saying No to abuse, to people who are falsely accusing you, lying to you, manipulating you, and then have the audacity to seek your help and support. To people who are taking advantage of you. To people who are telling you you are selfish for not tolerating their abuse and their stepping on your head.

    That would be the first. According to some therapists, we have three main needs in childhood: love, safety and boundaries. And you definitely weren’t allowed to have boundaries. None whatsoever. If you want to heal, you need to start setting boundaries, specially with people who want to hurt you.

    A beggar, who asks you for a dime, might not want to hurt you. But B certainly does. So you might want to give a dime to a beggar, but please stop giving your all to B.

    If you can’t get back your laptop for the time being, at least don’t allow her to bleed you out emotionally. Don’t try to comfort her when she comes with self-pity and fabricated problems. Even if you don’t block her phone, don’t engage, or be very curt, e.g. say “Ugh that’s tough.” And that’s it.

    Whatever you do, don’t engage emotionally, don’t rush to offer help, even if she tries to guilt-trip you into helping her. Because it’s all a scam. Politely refuse, even if you have to say a white lie. E.g.”sorry I am really busy, don’t have time to talk”.

    How does this sound? Is it too much? How do you feel about starting to set boundaries with her?

     

    #431875
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    “So sometimes she just complains about her stuff and you are her shoulder to cry on, but sometimes she steals private conversations from your phone and accuses you of your supposed “crimes” against her?” Yea precisely so, and turns out my guy friend backstabbed me by adding more lies to the fuel, and it is not the first time he has done it. The only person I had left to trust, went behind my back and told her things that made her believe that I was cheating on her. And when confronted, he told me that he didn’t lie. He said that he told her that I didn’t cheat, but she still managed to misunderstand enough to continue believing that I did cheat. She asked me not to tell anyone about her cheating, but I told my guy friend the truth about what she did, but I specifically told him not to tell her that I told him the truth. But instead, he went behind my back yesterday and went to tell her that I told him the full truth. It is amazing that you find enemies where you least expect it. The last person that I ever trusted. Now I really am all alone.

    “So you are there to comfort her and have a nice word for her (i.e. be kind and supportive to her), but also to listen and agonize about her false accusations of you.” It is more complex than that, but that is essentially it.

    “But also, I would be careful of whatever she tells you about her problems at work and her supposed difficulties, because she has a habit of lying. I wouldn’t trust anything she says.” Yes I have realized that, but it seems more like she twists the truth to satisfy her needs and she actively believes in the misunderstandings. By the way she twists the truth, someone could borrow her stapler without asking and she would label it as severe theft. Is she lying about someone taking her stapler? No. But the way she describes it makes it seem as if someone stole from her even if that was not their intention.

    “Pancreatic cancer is the worst type, in the sense that it’s usually diagnosed when it’s already too late, and it takes the person away in a matter of months.” I think it was not developed enough to affect his lifestyle at the time. But I don’t remember the details about it.

    “Even if it’s not a pancreatic cancer but another life threatening disease, you don’t travel across the world, specially not without your loved ones (she said the guy is married).” This spanish guy is an ass. He already had a woman he loved but instead of marrying her in their youth, he chose to “enjoy his youth” and only decided to get married recently when he got closer to his death. And he thinks that B should be consoled for the “trauma” that she had to go through in January, because he is blind to the severity of her damn lying and manipulation. That is the type of asshole he is (forgive my language). So I am not amazed that he came to enjoy some time in the Caribbean with his buddies instead of his wife.

    ” It can all be fabricated. Perhaps not all, but you cannot tell for sure.” I know that. That is why I told u that she could have been manipulating things from the very beginning. We don’t know. And I don’t want to accuse her of manipulation without good enough evidence of it, just in case she just happened to be telling the truth, even if the chances are very slim.

    “Now your goal is to be strategic and get your laptop back, without engaging with her too much emotionally.” I have to engage with her emotionally because otherwise she would just block me. I can’t get my stuff back if there is no means of communication. And I can’t just go to her place and demand that she give me my stuff because a snake like her could scream and lie that I was attacking her or something, and as a woman, most people will believe her.

    “Why doesn’t her employer provide her with a laptop?” The company she is working for is in the US, and she is not in the US and they don’t provide that kind of facility for her.

    “A simple example: you were forced to sit with adults and listen to their discussions, when you wanted to go out and play, like every other kid.” Lol that is so accurate. And there is nothing I can do about it.

    “How does this sound? Is it too much? How do you feel about starting to set boundaries with her?” I already established the boundaries tho, but I just keep falling for her guilt tripping and her attack on my sense of honor and morality. I have tried to be cold with her, but I cannot maintain it for long because someone like her will twist reality to satisfy her and it hurts my pride. I wish I stayed broken up when I found out about her cheating, at least I wouldn’t have given her my new laptop and etc. She still says what happened in January is not my business just cause we had broken up a day prior to it happening. I keep trying to explain to her that the moment we decided to get back together, what happened in January became my business. Even my tears have no value.

    Paradoxy

     

     

    #431886
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    ehhhh, it’s hard for me to read about B’s grip on you. I wish you could show her door, but you say you can’t, because you are waiting for her to give you back your laptop. Which btw might never happen, because she might keep coming up with excuses.

    turns out my guy friend backstabbed me by adding more lies to the fuel… went behind my back and told her things that made her believe that I was cheating on her.

    What exactly did he tell her?

    She asked me not to tell anyone about her cheating, but I told my guy friend the truth about what she did, but I specifically told him not to tell her that I told him the truth. But instead, he went behind my back yesterday and went to tell her that I told him the full truth.

    Did you tell him that she prostituted herself? Because that would be the full truth…. Not that I think you should have told him, but I am just asking…

    It is amazing that you find enemies where you least expect it. The last person that I ever trusted.

    He is not your enemy. She is. What you have been doing is fawning. That’s a trauma response, and it is what a victim does to please the bully, so that the bully wouldn’t harm them even more.

    That’s what you’ve been doing: she is bullying you in every way imaginable, and now you believe that you have to entertain her and keep her “happy”, so she would give back your laptop.

    You also believe that you have to keep secrets that incriminate her, so that her “good name” wouldn’t be tarnished. And when someone refuses to do that (your guy friend), you believe they are your enemy.

    I remember that you had a similar reaction to your school friend, who informed her parents about your suicide attempt. You felt betrayed by her and cut ties with her, because you got in trouble with your parents once they found out about the whole thing:

    This suicidal behavior caught the attention of my church/school friend who I spoke to about my depression and my suicidal thoughts and I specifically told her that it was just a feeling and I do not plan to act on it anymore and she should keep it between us but she told her parents about it, who told the church about it, who called my parents regarding the issue. My parents felt humiliated by that experience and was very angry with me, making me feel more of a burden. I could not forget that betrayal from her and I cut ties with her then.

    You were more upset with your well-meaning school friend than with your parents who had a horrible, unempathic reaction to your suicide attempt. Similarly now with B, you are more upset with your guy friend, who is trying to help you, than with B, who keeps abusing you.

    That’s a similar reaction: you are afraid of B (your bully), and are trying to appease her. And if someone pisses her off, you are mad at them, because that means more trouble for you (because she will torture you even more). Exactly the same as you felt about your parents.

    Fawning is a self-protection mechanism, to protect yourself from a bully that you feel helpless to deal with.

    This occurred to me now for the first time, but I think this is what’s happening. It’s a typical dynamic between an abuser and a victim who feels helpless to protect themselves from abuse.

    Yes I have realized that, but it seems more like she twists the truth to satisfy her needs and she actively believes in the misunderstandings.

    Yes, I know of people who believe in their own lies. That’s how they are able to maintain that they are never to blame and that someone else is guilty for their problems.

    By the way she twists the truth, someone could borrow her stapler without asking and she would label it as severe theft. Is she lying about someone taking her stapler? No. But the way she describes it makes it seem as if someone stole from her even if that was not their intention.

    Has she accused you (or someone you know) of stealing a stapler, even though the person didn’t steal it, but asked her if they can borrow it?

    This spanish guy is an ass. He already had a woman he loved but instead of marrying her in their youth, he chose to “enjoy his youth” and only decided to get married recently when he got closer to his death.

    Oh he got married when he needed someone to take care of him in his illness?

    And he thinks that B should be consoled for the “trauma” that she had to go through in January

    How is he consoling her? By giving her money? I cannot help but thinking that he is one of those rich old guys, whom her aunt was trying to fix her up with.

    I know that. That is why I told u that she could have been manipulating things from the very beginning. We don’t know. And I don’t want to accuse her of manipulation without good enough evidence of it, just in case she just happened to be telling the truth, even if the chances are very slim.

    Luckily, you are not engaged in a law suit with her. You don’t need to prove anything, neither to the Court, nor to her. It is enough to know what kind of person she is (a snake) and to stay away from her.

    Of course, you don’t need to provoke her now, after the fact, by questioning various claims that she made over the course of your relationship. But just be aware. No need to prove anything – she has already “proven” herself.

    I have to engage with her emotionally because otherwise she would just block me. I can’t get my stuff back if there is no means of communication.

    Is there a proof in your phone that she has your laptop? I mean, do you mention it in your chats? Because you can use that in case she chooses to block you and never return it to you. Perhaps you can mention that you’ll be forced to turn to the authorities if she doesn’t return it. Just saying as a possible option. You don’t have to mention it now, you can give her some time. But perhaps it’s something to have as a last resort, if it comes to that.

    And I can’t just go to her place and demand that she give me my stuff because a snake like her could scream and lie that I was attacking her or something, and as a woman, most people will believe her.

    Yes, don’t do that, don’t try to get it back by force. But you can use the method I suggested above, because she might not be so daring any more.

    Lol that is so accurate. And there is nothing I can do about it.

    Oh yes, you can, Paradoxy. You cannot turn back time, but you can heal from your lack of boundaries. Because what you parents did to you has now a direct consequence on how you behave in the relationship with B, e.g. on your inability to defend yourself from her. You can change that. You don’t need to remain a doormat and victim till the end.

    I already established the boundaries tho

    You mean you refused to reconcile with her? Okay, that’s already something. It’s the first step, and I congratulate you for that, because I know it wasn’t easy for you. But beyond that, you haven’t established much else. She is still in control of you, I am afraid.

    but I just keep falling for her guilt tripping and her attack on my sense of honor and morality. I have tried to be cold with her, but I cannot maintain it for long because someone like her will twist reality to satisfy her and it hurts my pride.

    Yeah, she can provoke you in a second. And you have the need to defend yourself, with words and arguments. However, that’s not a real defense, because as you’ve said it yourself, with each such argument you feel worse and worse, more and more helpless and depressed. So your over-reactivity is your fall.

    What would be a real defense? To refrain from getting into an argument. However, you can do that only if you are sure about who you are, about your identity: if you are sure that you are a good person, with pure intentions. If you doubt yourself, that’s your fall.

    So you’d need to work on that. Heal your inner child who believes he is a bad and selfish kid if he wants anything for himself, if he wants to play rather than sit with boring adults, if he has any desires and wants of his own. And if he dares to oppose the will of his parents.

    I have been crying all night, screaming in anger and frustration and agony, asking God what I did to deserve all of this. She just reminded me of how they all looked at me, my parents, my bullies, my classmates, the people I tried to make friends with. The more and more I realized that I was actually alone and the realization was breaking me cause I really had no one. Memories of them all saying the same thing, about me being useless, about me being a burden to them, about me being a problem they don’t want to deal with. Memories of everyone pushing me away, persons I saw as my own brothers and sisters at one point, ignoring me even when all I did was say hi, pushing me away, even to the point they even started blocking me. Even Anita got tired of me, that just goes to show that maybe I am the issue.

    I am sorry you felt rejected and condemned by everyone. As I said before, I am sure that the lack of emotional support by your parents (and not only lack of support, but severe emotional abuse) contributed to you feeling that you are targeted by your peers. Because you had no support at home, you only had condemnation at home. So truly, you were alone. And then your peers’ bullying hurt much more.

    As for your interaction with Anita, I believe that you were actually not rude with her, even though in the beginning you did argue a lot, with both of us. You did refuse her suggestions, very useful suggestions, such as the need to heal the inner child. But that’s your right to refuse it. Anita then withdrew from your thread, but has later returned to point out at your verbal abuse against B.

    Whereas you did call B names, that was a reaction to B’s horrendous behavior with you. B was not only abusing you (with her lying, cheating, hiding her prostitution, etc), but was falsely accusing you that you made her do it. Because of your own attachments and blind spots, you couldn’t see B’s real colors, but believed she was oblivious (rather than manipulative) and needs to be “educated” on proper behavior. That’s what made you engage in endless arguments with B and attempts to make her “listen” and “understand”.

    It seems to me that Anita focused more on those arguments and name calling, and less on B’s abuse, which was the precursor of those arguments and the precursor of your anger.

    Anita said something which was a pretty strong assumption on her part, and it seems to me an incorrect assumption: that you love to hate B (“Like I said before, you love to hate her. If you had a girlfriend who was as perfect as can be, where would you direct all this hate that’s inside you?“)

    Well, I have to admit, that wasn’t a very compassionate remark. And then you had a discussion about it, where you actually refused to accept the claims Anita made about your alleged hate, and explained to her why her posts weren’t that helpful to you. To which Anita got offended and told you that you’ve hurt her, in spite of her trying to help you. Well, I believe that you actually spoke your truth and stood up for yourself. What you said wasn’t hurtful, in my eyes, even though it might have hurt Anita.

    Even with the case with Anita, it was not my intention to hurt her, but in the end that is what I did and I am to be blamed for that.

    She was hurt, but you didn’t say anything hurtful. So you are not to blame. At least that’s how I see it.

    there is saying that in a classroom, if one student fails, then it is the student’s fault. But if everyone failed, then it is the teacher’s fault. So since everyone had the same reaction to me, maybe I am the problem?

    You are not always the problem. You are not always the one to blame. I don’t really like to comment on other people’s posts (other than OP’s), and I definitely don’t want to hurt Anita, because she is doing such a wonderful job on this forum. But I felt the need to say something now, because I see that you’re suffering and believing that you mess up wherever you go. But you don’t, Paradoxy.

    Start trusting that you are a good person, with good intentions. You were made to believe (by your parents) that you are bad and that you cause pain to other people. I hope you can start disassembling that belief, slowly but surely, and learn how to love yourself more.

     

    #431889
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    “What exactly did he tell her?” I am not sure exactly, but whatever he said to her, convinced her that I was cheating and lying to her the whole time. But when I asked him, he said that she misunderstood him and he didn’t lie. But he also says that he doesn’t exactly remember what he said specifically, just the general things. He says that he told her that I was not cheating, but she still accused me of cheating and lying so idk.

    “Did you tell him that she prostituted herself?” Yes I told him, but B is telling me that it was not in my right for me to share what happened to her, but she doesn’t realize that the trauma may be her experience, but her decisions as a result of the trauma became the root causes of my pain and suffering, therefore making it my right to share the cause of my pain and suffering.

    “He is not your enemy.” More like traitor. This is not the first time he fueled her fire with more misunderstandings so I am not amazed, cause last time she messaged him with her suspicion that I was cheating when in fact I was actually sleeping, and he agreed with her that I could be cheating, despite being fully aware that I am not the type of person to be cheating or anything. I just have the habit of oversharing. I am a fool. He betrayed me by doing exactly what I told him not to do. He could have at least respected my wishes. But I think I still forgive him tho. But I don’t see him the same way as before anymore.

    “I remember that you had a similar reaction to your school friend, who informed her parents about your suicide attempt.” Don’t I have a right to my wishes? I already told her that I wouldn’t commit suicide. I was just extremely depressed and I just wanted to die, I never said I would actually do it. Shouldn’t she be respecting my wishes? Don’t you think it is wrong for someone to pretend to be your friend and let you feel comfortable enough to open up and then instead of respecting your wishes, they think it is in their purview to do what they think is right for you? It is people like that who make situations worse than it actually is, because they try to help and they don’t know how so they go about it the wrong way. In the end what happened? All she did was drive me further into depression, further into suicide. I understand that she cared but don’t try to help if you don’t know how to help cause all you will end up doing is making things worse. Suicidal people are delicate people. It is like they are on top of the building about to kill themself and you are the negotiator. If you say the wrong thing or action, you might end up causing them to jump off the building, could even be just a tiny slip of their feet that you caused that would end up taking their life. I was upset with her because all she did was make it harder for me to deal with my parents. I would have been much better if I had just kept things to myself and now I have to learn that lesson the hard way. I wanted a friend who would try to understand me and make me feel heard, but this is what I get instead. Sometimes all you want is someone who listens to you rant and not someone who instantly tries to fix the issues without understanding the situation properly.

    Let me repeat this, IF YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO HELP, THEN DON’T HELP. It is better than taking the risk of making things worse I swear.

    “Has she accused you (or someone you know) of stealing a stapler, even though the person didn’t steal it, but asked her if they can borrow it?” No it was just an example. But I saw her rant about me to her friend and she painted me as the villain by omitting details and the friend kept supporting her, saying that I am not worth it and etc.

    “Oh he got married when he needed someone to take care of him in his illness?” No he got married prior to his diagnosis I think but he essentially got married when he was ready to settle down with one woman, after he had enjoyed his youth to the peak with multiple other women.

    “How is he consoling her? By giving her money?” No, he means emotional consoling. That I should be there for her to help her heal and it was not her fault and etc. Idk if she omitted details from him but the way she explained it to me, she clearly had the power to stop it from happening but she still allowed it. That man did not come back once or twice, but THREE TIMES. I would understand if it was a one time thing, but THREE TIMES? That is some bs, there is no way she can say she had no choice. But what is even worse is that she hid it from me. As a couple we should have been working together to heal from that trauma, but instead she hid it and dealt with it on her own and then shared the truth with me A YEAR LATER and now I have to deal with the the trauma of knowing what she had to go through AND her betrayal.

    “I cannot help but thinking that he is one of those rich old guys, whom her aunt was trying to fix her up with.” Maybe, maybe not but they did not meet through the aunt, and they have known each other for years so if that was his intention he would have done something by now.

    “Is there a proof in your phone that she has your laptop? I mean, do you mention it in your chats?” Yes I have proof, in the chat as well as the computer itself because my name is there as the administrator for the laptop. And I know I can use it, but I really don’t want cops to be involved in relationship crisis like this. It would raise unnecessary attention and I prefer to be invisible. But I did tell her that I would be forced to call the authorities on her, but she knows I wouldn’t cause I am not that kind of person. Besides, can I really blame her for not giving me the laptop cause she needs it for work and doesn’t have enough money yet to buy a new laptop?

    “You can change that. You don’t need to remain a doormat and victim till the end.” Yea I will try to work on it.

    “You mean you refused to reconcile with her?” Yes, and I told her where the line of my patience and understanding is, which she shouldn’t be crossing, but she keeps doing it. And while in the relationship, I had already established the line on things that I didn’t like to see her doing, such as wearing revealing outfits in public and posting bikini pictures etc. But I guess she is still able to manipulate me.

    To refrain from getting into an argument.” I have been trying to do that but my doubts caused me to be weak, I will work on getting it fixed.

    “As for your interaction with Anita, I believe that you were actually not rude with her, even though in the beginning you did argue a lot, with both of us.” It was getting annoying that she kept using my past from 4 years ago to describe me now after I already stated that I had grown out of that phase. Besides I also mentioned details that she kept ignoring in her messages, (details such as the fact that my so-called verbal abuse were not random outbursts but a reaction to B’s behavior after arguing for several hours/days/weeks with no progress in understanding and improving the behavior) which further frustrated me cause I felt unheard. And then Anita said that the only reason why I have not started name calling my responders here is cause of some website regulations, which really offended me cause she is saying that it is in my nature to be verbally abusive. I know that my response to what she said was hurtful to her but I wish we could have come to an understanding.

    “You are not always the problem. You are not always the one to blame.” Lol you sound like you are saying that I am the problem only 99% of the time but there is the remaining 1% where I am not the problem. But I understand what you are saying. I will work on changing my core beliefs, but it is difficult when the way others behave towards me strengthens my core beliefs. But thank you for your help.

    Paradoxy

     

     

     

     

    #431900
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    No, he means emotional consoling. That I should be there for her to help her heal and it was not her fault and etc.

    Hmmm I am very skeptical that she actually confided in this guy about her prostitution. Why would she do that? I doubt he is like a father figure to her. And as I said, the whole story is very suspicious – that he is married, sick with cancer, but still decided to travel overseas (alone) and have fun at pool parties. All of that sounds bogus to me. Specially the part where he is “consoling” her.

    I think she said that only to make you feel guilty. Like he is so much more compassionate than you, who is judging her and “crucifying” her. I can totally see it as another guilt-tripping narrative, a story that is completely made up.

    whatever he said to her, convinced her that I was cheating and lying to her the whole time. But when I asked him, he said that she misunderstood him and he didn’t lie.

    I saw her rant about me to her friend and she painted me as the villain by omitting details and the friend kept supporting her, saying that I am not worth it and etc.

    It’s easy for her to paint you as the villain – she simply omits important details, adds a few invented ones, and voila – here is her version of reality, in which you are the villain. I can totally see how she did the same after talking to your guy friend. He most probably didn’t say anything bad about you, but she twisted it and concluded that indeed, you are cheating on her.

    I can even imagine a scenario where she doesn’t necessarily believe that you are cheating on her, but she pretends that she does, so she can torture you and falsely accuse you. I can’t tell, but I am starting to wonder if she actually enjoys to torture you, to tell you the things she knows will disturb you?

    No he got married prior to his diagnosis I think but he essentially got married when he was ready to settle down with one woman, after he had enjoyed his youth to the peak with multiple other women.

    So why wasn’t his wife with him, if he is severely ill and possibly going to die? You don’t go on an overseas trip alone, without your loved ones, specially if this might be your last big journey. It just doesn’t add up, Paradoxy.

    Can I really blame her for not giving me the laptop cause she needs it for work and doesn’t have enough money yet to buy a new laptop?

    No, but it’s not your duty to provide it for her. In fact, she can ask her old rich guy friend to give her money for a laptop, if he is already so “supportive.” I’d actually suggest it to her, and see how she reacts…

    And I know I can use it, but I really don’t want cops to be involved in relationship crisis like this. It would raise unnecessary attention and I prefer to be invisible. But I did tell her that I would be forced to call the authorities on her, but she knows I wouldn’t cause I am not that kind of person.

    I understand you don’t want to escalate things. But it’s good that you told her. Actually, you could give her a deadline by which time you expect her to give the laptop back, and if she doesn’t, you can say you’ll be forced to contact the authorities. And that you mean it seriously (even if you’re bluffing).

    More like traitor. This is not the first time he fueled her fire with more misunderstandings so I am not amazed, cause last time she messaged him with her suspicion that I was cheating when in fact I was actually sleeping, and he agreed with her that I could be cheating, despite being fully aware that I am not the type of person to be cheating or anything

    Was that when she broke up with you because she couldn’t reach you on the phone? Did he explain why he told her you might be cheating? Maybe he doesn’t like her, and that’s why he said something he knew will piss her off?

    Yes I told him, but B is telling me that it was not in my right for me to share what happened to her, but she doesn’t realize that the trauma may be her experience, but her decisions as a result of the trauma became the root causes of my pain and suffering, therefore making it my right to share the cause of my pain and suffering.

    Well, yes, it’s kind of intimate, so I understand why she was upset. But I also understand that you needed someone to talk to and “decompress”. But okay, perhaps he didn’t have to tell her that he knows.

    It seems to me he really dislikes her (can’t blame him) and I guess he gets upset with her, and then tells her even the things that are better not to share. Specially since she is such a person who will later torture you for any of your friend’s slip ups.

    He betrayed me by doing exactly what I told him not to do. He could have at least respected my wishes. But I think I still forgive him tho. But I don’t see him the same way as before anymore.

    Yes, do forgive him, because I think he doesn’t have bad intentions. However, tell him that she will use every information he gives her against you, and that’s why it’s better not to share anything with her. Because she will use it against you. So he would need to stop communicating with her, specially as a mediator between you two.

    And he would also need to stop “defending” you by being mean to her (if that’s what he’s been doing), because that will only infuriate her more. It is your task to deal with her, and he shouldn’t intervene.

    So yeah, I think you and your guy friend should conspire a little and be strategic, because you are dealing with a serious enemy. So no information leakage should be allowed from him to her. Although she has already stolen the chat between you two, which I can imagine is a great resource for her to keep torturing you on various accounts :\

    Let me repeat this, IF YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO HELP, THEN DON’T HELP. It is better than taking the risk of making things worse I swear.

    Yes, in this case I agree. If he wants to help, but gives away information about you that she can later use against you, that’s counter-productive. However, she also invents things out of thin air – things that are completely untrue – so she doesn’t even need your friend’s slip ups. She knows how to torture you anyway. But yes, it’s better to protect yourself as much as possible by giving away as little information as possible.

    Don’t I have a right to my wishes? I already told her that I wouldn’t commit suicide. I was just extremely depressed and I just wanted to die, I never said I would actually do it. Shouldn’t she be respecting my wishes? Don’t you think it is wrong for someone to pretend to be your friend and let you feel comfortable enough to open up and then instead of respecting your wishes, they think it is in their purview to do what they think is right for you?

    Did you know that therapists for example are legally obliged to inform the authorities if someone is seriously considering suicide (or homicide)? In every other case the therapist must respect the client’s confidentiality, but not if there are serious indications that they might harm themselves or someone else.

    That’s because protecting the person’s life is more important than betraying their trust. In your case, your friend was worried about you and it would have been too much for her to keep this type of secret. As I said, even a therapist is obliged not to keep that kind of secret.

    It is people like that who make situations worse than it actually is, because they try to help and they don’t know how so they go about it the wrong way. In the end what happened? All she did was drive me further into depression, further into suicide.

    Yes, I understand what you’re saying. Because you had to deal with your parents’ wrath afterwards – with their totally inappropriate and abusive reaction. And you were left at their mercy – you had nowhere to go.

    It’s a big mistake that no one e.g. ordered that you should visit a psychologist. That the “ball” was returned back to your parents, who were actually your abusers.

    So I understand why you are so upset about people trying to help, but not taking into account the consequences it may have on you.

    But also please be aware of who the enemy No1 is: the abuser. Your parents back then. And B now. They are the ones you really need to free yourself from, on the long run. You need to free yourself from their toxic influence, from their grip on you.

    On the short run, you should of course try to mitigate the impact the abuser has on you (even if it means playing along, pretending to be kind until you e.g. get your laptop back). However, on the long run you shouldn’t be their easy prey. You shouldn’t be in agony about their false accusations. You shouldn’t believe them when they tell you you are a bad person.

    So the goal would be to liberate yourself from their influence. And for that, you need healing.

    Lol you sound like you are saying that I am the problem only 99% of the time but there is the remaining 1% where I am not the problem.

    Haha true 🙂 But I said it because you had the feeling that ALL of your interactions are a failure and that you inevitably hurt people (or at least people you care about). So I gave you my honest feedback that in this particular interaction, with Anita, I don’t believe you said hurtful things. So that’s at least one example where your false belief is not true.

    But I understand what you are saying. I will work on changing my core beliefs, but it is difficult when the way others behave towards me strengthens my core beliefs. But thank you for your help.

    You are welcome. The thing is that having this false core belief is a self-fulfilling prophecy: because you will be attracted to people who have no empathy and understanding for you (people similar to your parents) and you’ll be trying to prove to them that you are lovable.

    That’s what you’ve been doing with B. She is a bully, like your parents, and that’s why you were so eager to prove it to her that you are a good person. A person worthy of love.

    You stopped wanting to prove it to your parents, but you needed her to believe it, to confirm it to you, because that’s what we do in romantic relationships (before we heal): we are trying to get what we haven’t received from our parents, in our childhood.

    You actually expressed it perfectly here:

    She is the only person that I wanted to correct. The only person I wanted to understand. I don’t care about anyone else, my parents, family, friend etc. SHE IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND HER MISTAKES SO SHE CAN CORRECT THEM BECAUSE I WANTED TO LOVE HER WITHOUT HER CAUSING ME MORE PAIN.

    See? You didn’t care about proving that you are lovable to your parents. Instead, you transferred all that longing – that super strong need – on her. That’s your unmet childhood need right here: to be seen as a good person, worthy of love.

    But she never met that need of yours, she never acknowledged that you are a good person. On the contrary, she kept falsely accusing you and guilt tripping you, just like your parents did. She was deepening your core wound, instead of healing it.

    she keeps hitting my ego when she keeps making false accusations which then gives me the urge to fight her and prove to her how wrong she is.

    She actually keeps hurting your inner child. She keeps telling you that you are bad and unlovable. And then your ego, which is trying to protect your inner child, is fighting back. But no matter what you say, she will never admit that you are indeed a good person. And so, your inner child never gets that need met. You remain the bad guy in her eyes.

    And so your inner child – who is looking to her and only her to heal him – gets stranded again. Get stabbed once again. Sinking deeper and deeper into depression.

    Your ego is doing you a disservice here. Because you are looking to get what you need from her. And she – being the person that she is – is never going to give it to you.

    So you’d need to stop wanting it from her. You would need to give it to yourself: your adult self to your inner child.

    Therapy can be a great help in that process – to strengthen your capacity to love yourself.

     

    #431908
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    I am pretty sure she didn’t tell the Spanish dude the details of what exactly happened but she probably gave a summary. She probably said it to make me feel guilty, but it doesn’t sound completely made up to me, cause based on the type of behavior she has described from him, I am not amazed that a 70 year old man has the logic of a spoiled teenager. But don’t worry, B got a taste of her own medicine when there was an altercation at the resort and the Spanish dude said it was B’s fault even though B didn’t do anything.

    “It’s easy for her to paint you as the villain – she simply omits important details, adds a few invented ones, and voila – here is her version of reality, in which you are the villain. I can totally see how she did the same after talking to your guy friend.” When I read her rant to her best friend, I was infuriated enough to message the girl myself to tell her that she shouldn’t be believing everything B says blindly. B saw the msg and she started calling me a psychopath and etc and told me to delete the msg and never msg her friends again cause it is insane. As for my guy friend, even thought B would appear to just be twisting the truth, I don’t want to give him the benefit of the doubt, cause this is not the first time he went behind my back to do something like this, which I already explained. So if he was able to do something behind my back once, what’s going to stop him from doing it again?

    “So why wasn’t his wife with him, if he is severely ill and possibly going to die?” Apparently they had some kind of mutual agreement? He is doing a bucket list or something? It is very confusing what his deal is.

    “No, but it’s not your duty to provide it for her. In fact, she can ask her old rich guy friend to give her money for a laptop, if he is already so “supportive.” Can’t, the altercation at the resort caused them to stop talking. She got a taste of her own medicine, cause he started treating her the same way she was treating me regarding the arguments (shutting her down when she tries to explain, narrow mindedness, misunderstandings etc).

    “Actually, you could give her a deadline by which time you expect her to give the laptop back, and if she doesn’t, you can say you’ll be forced to contact the authorities.” Tee, she has been with me for more than a year. She knows that it is a bluff because she knows that I won’t do anything unfair.

     “Was that when she broke up with you because she couldn’t reach you on the phone?” Yes, and this dude talked to me acting like he had no idea what was going on between me and her, and when I realized he was aware the entire time, I confronted him and he said that he pretended like he didn’t know so that I get a chance to explain my perspective of things without having a biased opinion.

    “Did he explain why he told her you might be cheating?” Nope. He didn’t explain at all.

    “Maybe he doesn’t like her, and that’s why he said something he knew will piss her off?” Unlikely, because he always stated that he expected us to stay together for years cause of how much love we had for each other (the love I had for her).

    “But okay, perhaps he didn’t have to tell her that he knows.” The issue is that she had asked me multiple times about what I told my guy friend and I kept lying to her that I didn’t tell him much, so finding out that I told him the full truth now paints me as a “pathological liar” and etc. But it is kind of ironic that she lied to my face multiple times about the guy who was removing her braids and now she is getting a taste of my medicine but I am still the villain.

    “It seems to me he really dislikes her (can’t blame him) and I guess he gets upset with her, and then tells her even the things that are better not to share.” Hard to tell since he barely gets himself involved in matters like this.

    “However, tell him that she will use every information he gives her against you, and that’s why it’s better not to share anything with her.” The issue regarding this is that B kind of tricked him into sharing information with her cause she had exported my entire chat with him. Since most conversations were incomplete continuations of face to face conversations, it lead to her overthinking and misunderstanding the context behind some of the conversations, and by pretending to know everything, she tricked my guy friend into spilling the beans. So I understand that he was tricked, but why the hell did he call her FIRST???? That is quite suspicious and weird to me. But in the end I forgave him, but I don’t think I will trust him regarding things like this in the future.

    “And he would also need to stop “defending” you by being mean to her (if that’s what he’s been doing), because that will only infuriate her more.” Definitely not what he is doing. Like I said, he barely gets himself involved in such matters. It doesn’t matter anymore since the fighting with B has reached temporary tranquility for now and we are in the phase of moving on.

    “Did you know that therapists for example are legally obliged to inform the authorities if someone is seriously considering suicide (or homicide)?” Tee, it was literally a 10 minute conversation that happened like one time. There is not enough information about me for her to assume that I would indeed kill myself when I CLEARLY STATED THAT I WOULDN’T. “In every other case the therapist must respect the client’s confidentiality, but not if there are serious indications that they might harm themselves or someone else.” SERIOUS INDICATION is the key word here. U cannot get any SERIOUS INDICATION from a 10 minute conversation that I had on a random day. A lot of people randomly state crazy things, even as jokes. Do you see people reporting them all the time for these random claims? There are a lot of people who simply says “I will kill you” out of anger but without actual SERIOUS INDICATION, people don’t usually report it because they understand that the person said what they said out of anger and not cause they meant it. Based on her logic, if I had joked about bombing the school or something, she would have probably called the swat team on me before the end of the day.

    What makes her actions even more pointless is that the church still did NOTHING other than tell my parents, despite telling her that my OWN PARENTS are the cause of my suffering. So really, the best thing she could have done was to keep her mouth shut.

    I am back at my parents’ place, and it has not even been one week yet and my dad is already pissing me off. Shutting down all my attempts to express my issues, telling me to suck it up and be a man. Saying that I never learn my lesson and I am a pig because no matter how many times you bathe a pig, they will run right back into the mud. But I am not amazed though, cause he is not the only dad who says these kinds of things to their kids, especially the sons. It is quite common in our community, which made me realize that I will never be the son-in-law that most fathers look for. Fortunately I am going back to college tomorrow but I still have to endure an hour long call every single day. Everyone has shoved me into this small corner and then they wonder why I am stuck in this corner. Don’t even have the courage to ask a girl out cause of the constant reminder that she is better off without a loser like me, even if she answered yes.

    “The thing is that having this false core belief is a self-fulfilling prophecy: because you will be attracted to people who have no empathy and understanding for you (people similar to your parents) and you’ll be trying to prove to them that you are lovable.” Yea I will work on that. But I am not sure how I can find people who have some empathy for me when they all push me away anyway.

    “See? You didn’t care about proving that you are lovable to your parents. Instead, you transferred all that longing – that super strong need – on her.” Maybe it is better if I just stay away from everyone all together so I don’t end up repeating my mistake by falling in love with the wrong girl again.

    I will try to work on healing myself. We will see how it goes. But I have a feeling I will never be fully healed. But thank you for ur advice.

     

    Paradoxy

    #431951
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    She probably said it to make me feel guilty, but it doesn’t sound completely made up to me, cause based on the type of behavior she has described from him, I am not amazed that a 70 year old man has the logic of a spoiled teenager.

    I wouldn’t believe anything she told you about him, neither about his health nor his marital status nor the nature of their relationship. Because she doesn’t have a track record of speaking the truth. And since you’ve never met the guy (you saw him only on the photo she posted on social media, right?), it’s safe to say that you know almost nothing about him.

    But don’t worry, B got a taste of her own medicine when there was an altercation at the resort and the Spanish dude said it was B’s fault even though B didn’t do anything.

    What an idyllic friendship they had, the guy “consoling” her and having understanding for her, when her own boyfriend wouldn’t. And then boom, he falsely accused her of something she hasn’t done. What a friend!

    And now, I guess they’re not on speaking terms anymore, and she cannot ask him to give her money for a much needed laptop. Poor B. (I am being sarcastic here, of course)

    Well, to me, this is just another proof that most of the story she gave you about this guy is bogus. Specially their alleged friendship. Because you don’t falsely accuse a friend. Or she really did something bad, but of course doesn’t want to admit it, as always.

    So anyway, she is lying, this way or another. To me this is clear as day. And so, anything that she told you, i.e. her version of any story, has no credibility. No reason to believe any of it.

    About your guy friend:
    <p style=”margin-left: .5in;”>he barely gets himself involved in matters like this.</p>
    Well, he definitely was involved in your story with B, because you confided in him, you talked about it a lot with him. He also seems to have been on your side, because he wanted to help you with getting her stuff from her:

    on that day, I had told my friend that I would be going to her place to collect my stuff, and he joked that I should let him know if I need backup in case she resists.

    So it seems to me that he is involved, and he might have his opinion about B too. But it seems he doesn’t want her to think poorly of him. Maybe that’s why he called her, because she was making false accusations against him as well:

    B kind of tricked him into sharing information with her cause she had exported my entire chat with him. Since most conversations were incomplete continuations of face to face conversations, it lead to her overthinking and misunderstanding the context behind some of the conversations, and by pretending to know everything, she tricked my guy friend into spilling the beans. So I understand that he was tricked, but why the hell did he call her FIRST????

    So maybe he called her to “justify” himself? Because he didn’t want to be falsely accused by her?

    As for the incident when you were sleeping and she contacted him, asking if you were cheating, it seems to me he pretended to be indifferent, kind of saying “don’t know, maybe he is (cheating).” This is how he explained it:

    he said that he pretended like he didn’t know so that I get a chance to explain my perspective of things without having a biased opinion.

    This is a very strange answer. It seems to me like an excuse – as if he didn’t want to admit to you that he doesn’t like her and that he did this to piss her off. So I still think he doesn’t like her, but he didn’t want to admit it, after he realized how much you care about her and how much you were upset when he “endangered” your relationship by his stupid remark.

    And I guess that’s why he also said diplomatic things like this:

    he always stated that he expected us to stay together for years cause of how much love we had for each other (the love I had for her).

    You were fighting a lot, breaking up and reconciling all the time. I don’t think he honestly believed it’s a healthy relationship that will last for years. But I think he said it not to hurt you, because he saw how much you love her, how much you want to be with her. And so he just said it, to seem kind. But honestly, I don’t think he really meant it.

     

    When I read her rant to her best friend, I was infuriated enough to message the girl myself to tell her that she shouldn’t be believing everything B says blindly. B saw the msg and she started calling me a psychopath and etc and told me to delete the msg and never msg her friends again cause it is insane.

    That’s typical of her: calling you a psychopath when she was doing exactly the same: messaging your guy friend to ask if you were cheating:

    she messaged him with her suspicion that I was cheating

    She has also stolen your private chat with him (BTW you should never let her get near your phone again!), and was then harassing him to “explain himself”:

    B kind of tricked him into sharing information with her cause she had exported my entire chat with him. Since most conversations were incomplete continuations of face to face conversations, it lead to her overthinking and misunderstanding the context behind some of the conversations, and by pretending to know everything, she tricked my guy friend into spilling the beans.

    So it’s her typical hypocrisy: lying and then accusing you of lying, hiding an ex in her house and then accusing you that you might be doing the same, stealing a private conversation and harassing your friend and then accusing you of being a psychopath!

    the fighting with B has reached temporary tranquility for now and we are in the phase of moving on.

    Perhaps only because you went home, and she has your laptop anyway, so no reason to torture you? But I guess as soon as you’d mention the laptop again, she would start a barrage of accusations… because that’s how she can discourage you from claiming what is rightfully yours.

    There is a saying “the best defense is a good offense”. She has been playing this tactic all along: in order to escape responsibility for her bad behavior, she has been falsely accusing you (being on the “offense”), therefore removing the focus from herself and making you the problem. The result: she gets to keep doing what she is doing, without any consequences. She keeps behaving badly, without any consequences.

    I’ll reply to the rest of your post in a separate post, a bit later.

     

    #431952
    Tee
    Participant

    There was a mistake with formatting, re-posting below:

    Dear Paradoxy,

    She probably said it to make me feel guilty, but it doesn’t sound completely made up to me, cause based on the type of behavior she has described from him, I am not amazed that a 70 year old man has the logic of a spoiled teenager.

    I wouldn’t believe anything she told you about him, neither about his health nor his marital status or the nature of their relationship. Because she doesn’t have a track record of speaking the truth. And since you’ve never met the guy (you saw him only on the photo she posted on social media, right?), it’s safe to say that you know almost nothing about him.

    But don’t worry, B got a taste of her own medicine when there was an altercation at the resort and the Spanish dude said it was B’s fault even though B didn’t do anything.

    What an idyllic friendship they had, the guy “consoling” her and having understanding for her, when her own boyfriend wouldn’t. And then boom, he falsely accused her of something she hasn’t done. What a friend!

    And now, I guess they’re not on speaking terms anymore, and she cannot ask him to give her money for a much needed laptop. Poor B. (I am being sarcastic here, of course)

    Well, to me, this is just another proof that most of the story she gave you about this guy is bogus. Specially their alleged friendship. Because you don’t falsely accuse a friend. Or she really did something bad, but of course doesn’t want to admit it, as always.

    So anyway, she is lying, this way or another. To me this is clear as day. And so, anything that she told you, i.e. her version of any story, has no credibility. No reason to believe any of it.

    About your guy friend:

    he barely gets himself involved in matters like this.

    Well, he definitely was involved in your story with B, because you confided in him, you talked about it a lot with him. He also seems to have been on your side, because he wanted to help you with getting your stuff from her:

    on that day, I had told my friend that I would be going to her place to collect my stuff, and he joked that I should let him know if I need backup in case she resists.

    So it seems to me that he is involved, and he might have his opinion about B too. But it seems he doesn’t want her to think poorly of him. Maybe that’s why he called her, because she was making false accusations against him as well:

    B kind of tricked him into sharing information with her cause she had exported my entire chat with him. Since most conversations were incomplete continuations of face to face conversations, it lead to her overthinking and misunderstanding the context behind some of the conversations, and by pretending to know everything, she tricked my guy friend into spilling the beans. So I understand that he was tricked, but why the hell did he call her FIRST????

    So maybe he called her to “justify” himself? Because he didn’t want to be falsely accused by her?

    As for the incident when you were sleeping and she contacted him, asking if you were cheating, it seems to me he pretended to be clueless with her, kind of saying “don’t know, maybe he is (cheating).” This is how he explained it:

    he said that he pretended like he didn’t know so that I get a chance to explain my perspective of things without having a biased opinion.

    This is a very strange answer. It seems to me like an excuse – as if he didn’t want to admit to you that he doesn’t like her and that he did this to piss her off. So I still think he doesn’t like her, but he didn’t want to admit it, after he realized how much you care about her and how much you were upset when he “endangered” your relationship by his stupid remark.

    And I guess that’s why he also said diplomatic things like this:

    he always stated that he expected us to stay together for years cause of how much love we had for each other (the love I had for her).

    You were fighting a lot, breaking up and reconciling all the time. I don’t think he honestly believed it’s a healthy relationship that will last for years. But I think he said it not to hurt you, because he saw how much you love her, how much you want to be with her. And so he just said it, to seem kind. But honestly, I don’t think he really meant it.

     

    When I read her rant to her best friend, I was infuriated enough to message the girl myself to tell her that she shouldn’t be believing everything B says blindly. B saw the msg and she started calling me a psychopath and etc and told me to delete the msg and never msg her friends again cause it is insane.

    That’s typical of her: calling you a psychopath when she was doing exactly the same: messaging your guy friend to ask if you were cheating:

    she messaged him with her suspicion that I was cheating

    She has also stolen your private chat with him (BTW you should never let her get near your phone again!), and was then harassing him to “explain himself”:

    B kind of tricked him into sharing information with her cause she had exported my entire chat with him. Since most conversations were incomplete continuations of face to face conversations, it lead to her overthinking and misunderstanding the context behind some of the conversations, and by pretending to know everything, she tricked my guy friend into spilling the beans.

    So it’s her typical hypocrisy: lying and then accusing you of lying, hiding an ex in her house and then accusing you that you might be doing the same, stealing a private conversation and harassing your friend and then accusing you of being a psychopath!

    the fighting with B has reached temporary tranquility for now and we are in the phase of moving on.

    Perhaps only because you went home, and she has your laptop anyway, so no reason to torture you? But I guess as soon as you’d mention the laptop again, she would start a barrage of accusations… because that’s how she can discourage you from claiming what is rightfully yours.

    There is a saying “the best defense is a good offense”. She has been playing this tactic all along: in order to escape responsibility for her bad behavior, she has been falsely accusing you (being on the “offense”), therefore removing the focus from herself and making you the problem. The result: she gets to keep doing what she is doing, without any consequences. She keeps behaving badly, without any consequences.

    I’ll reply to the rest of your post in a separate post, a bit later.

     

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