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- This topic has 94 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 3 months ago by Anonymous.
April 15, 2018 at 10:01 am #202515
Likewise, I find your insight with other members so helpful. I also appreciate that you are present and available.
You are perceptive too. I remember a lot of our family life revolving around my mom…her needs, her opinions, her feelings, her likes and dislikes. It was the norm for us, but as an adult, I can see it was not healthy. You ask where my siblings and I were in all of this. Truthfully, as long as we were perfect, all was well. I’m being somewhat facetious, but the reality was if we behaved perfectly, did the right thing, said the right thing, reacted the right way – at least perfect in the way that accommodated our mom – all was well. That has been a difficult thing to overcome – to not be perfect and just be human. It’s sad to type that, but it’s true. My one brother and sister probably had it the hardest because they rebelled. My other brother and I were more complacent and tried to keep the peace.
When she yelled, I don’t remember feeling angry as much as I felt helpless – like I had to do something to make it better, whether I caused the anger or not.
In my other post, I called out my dad as not being particularly loving or supportive, but to be fair, I don’t recall my mom ever saying to me “I love you” or telling me she was proud of me. She would tell other people she was proud of her kids but “I love you” is not something my parents felt comfortable saying.
Thank you for your response and insight. I appreciate it.
AireneApril 15, 2018 at 10:36 am #202519AnonymousGuest
You are welcome and thank you.
One brother and sister rebelled. Another brother and you submitted (the verb I use, you used the adjective complacent). You don’t remember feeling angry at your mother when she yelled.
It could be that you didn’t feel angry: you felt fear and stayed in fear, therefore, submitted (?)
Two of your siblings felt fear, no doubt, but then went to anger and rebelled.
You think that submission, or being complacent worked better for the two of you than did rebelling to the other two?
anitaApril 15, 2018 at 11:03 am #202523
You think that submission, or being complacent worked better for the two of you than did rebelling to the other two?
Do you mean as kids? Yes, as a kid, I think it worked better for me to submit, or comply with what my parents wanted. I mean…I was a kid.
As an adult, it doesn’t work as well to submit. And I don’t.
AireneApril 15, 2018 at 11:42 am #202529AnonymousGuest
Interesting how we find out later that the parents were not at all powerful people, but we can’t help being formed based on the belief at the time that they were indeed all powerful. We naturally believe as children that our parents are powerful simply because we need them to be.
I don’t know if you meant to have a conversation with me on this thread. I don’t know if you would like to continue with my line of inquiry. I am okay either way. If you are interested, please let me know.
I need to get away from the computer for about sixteen hours.
anitaApril 15, 2018 at 1:24 pm #202541
Yes, your thoughts are helpful, and I do appreciate your perspective.
Yes, I agree…parents appear all powerful when we are kids. It’s comforting when used to protect us, but when it’s used to control or keep dysfunction moving along, it can be damaging.
Your comment about my brother and sister who rebelled, feeling fear at first, but then went to anger…is anger the precursor to rebellion? Though age has mellowed them somewhat, I think they both still live in a state of anger and rebellion. And although my mom passed in 2001, this brother and my sister – still – make reference to my mom’s yelling, or talk about how they responded to something and “sounded like mom”. It’s almost as if time stood still for them, and they haven’t moved beyond all of that.
Thanks for listening Anita.
AireneApril 16, 2018 at 4:34 am #202605AnonymousGuest
You are so appreciative and kind, thank you. I re-read your shares here. Regarding anger, I think all four of you siblings were fearful and angry. Two of your siblings rebelled, as children, motivated by anger. But you were angry too. You wrote that when you currently in your life hear people say they don’t feel well (like your mother said), you “kind of shut down and close the door on any compassion or empathy”. I think that anger is what shuts the door on compassion.
But the two rebelled, at times, and you and one brother did not rebel, at least not openly or very rarely otherwise. It happens in families (I learned) that when a sibling observes another sibling rebelling and suffering the consequences of that, that the observing sibling decides to take on the opposite role, be the good kid, so to avoid the bad consequences and to gain some positive consequence. These are roles: rebelling, complacent. But anger is in all.
You wrote that your two siblings who rebelled as children “still live in a state of anger and rebellion… It’s almost as if time stood still for them”. I think they are still angry because their rebellion was never complete. To rebel is to oppose authority. They are still rebelling because the critical voices of their parents (dead or alive, in reality) are still playing in their heads and they are still opposing, but not successfully.
anitaApril 16, 2018 at 8:35 pm #202729KathleenParticipant
I am new to the forums and have seen your thoughtful and engaging replies often, you are truly inspiring. I consider you a therapeutic volunteer, truly. I am curious about your life, who you are. Do you write on here so often because you work from home? Do you find fulfillment by helping others? Do you have loving family members now despite your troubling past? You seem like a fascinating soul.
Myself, I am a young adult with an old soul. I love spending time in nature and care about the environment, I love coffee in the mornings, I enjoy eating healthy food and doing things like yoga, and my little sisters are my best friends. I have a mother with a multipersonality disorder who has brought challenges and lessons to my life. I consider myself very spiritual and love reading, listening, observing, and communicating with books, music, art and people that help me learn more about humanity. I also feel a strong desire to help others thrive despite any suffering they face. It is hard to summarize myself, even though I’ve only been around a mere 18 years!
Thank you for all you do.
KathleenApril 17, 2018 at 2:06 am #202765AnonymousGuest
I am glad you are here, what a pleasure it is to read your posts on the site. I shared about who I am- a lot- and about my life, but it will be difficult to find because of the massive amount of posting I do. As to your questions, briefly: I do not work from home. I haven’t been employed since 2011. I live outside the city limit, very much in nature. There is one family member that I love very much, always will (different countries/ continents). I am in some contact with another family member, my sister but not close, not at all (also, another continent). No contact with any other family member. I post here a lot, daily, not with the primary goal of helping others. I have very, very humble expectations that I am indeed helping others. I post here a lot and often because I am helping myself.
I am passionate about the following: learning. Healing and learning go together. As I learn about others, I learn about myself. As I learn more, I heal more. My goal is that my interactions with you, with others, are Win-Win, win for me, win for the other person.
I like much of what you mentioned that you like: coffee in the mornings, nature, eating healthy food, did a lot of yoga (still on the yoga mat daily, yesterday did only … the corpse pose. And I suppose we have this in common as well, my mother too suffered/ suffering from a combination of personality disorders.
You are welcome. Thank you for your kind words. A pleasure to have you here.
anitaApril 17, 2018 at 3:47 am #202785
I’m so glad Kathleen asked you to post about your life – I was also curious. When I read a post in the forum, I look for your response – “what did Anita say”? You are voice of reason, compassion and non-judgment, available and present. You say “as I learn about others, I learn about myself,” and that “healing and learning go hand in hand.” You are so generous with your time in sharing what you have learned.
Thank you also for your response about my siblings’ anger, and my anger. I do have anger, but didn’t consider that it’s associated with being submissive. Or that anger is what closes the door on my compassion – but this too is accurate. What you say here is true as well – seeing how my parents treated the siblings who rebelled compelled me to respond in an opposite way. Knowing where my feelings come from helps me put them in their proper place.
I look forward to reading more from you, Anita.
AireneApril 17, 2018 at 4:34 am #202791AnonymousGuest
Thank you, it is definitely pleasant to read being “a voice of reason, compassion and non-judgment”. When I started posting here I was plenty judgmental. Because of ongoing learning, I am less judgmental, less and less. Didn’t aim at not being judgmental, it naturally happens with learning, over time.
You wrote: “I do have anger, but didn’t consider that it’s associated with being submissive”. What happens when we submit to another’s abuse, to another misusing his or her power over us? What happens… some decide it will never happen again and they make sure it won’t by seeing to it that others submit to them, that they are on top. Others turn inward, hurt themselves or take pills/ drugs to numb that anger.
The anger resulting from submitting to abuse, that anger doesn’t go away. Does it, in your experience?
anitaApril 17, 2018 at 8:09 am #202795RegiParticipant
I’ve been reading many articles and posts on the internet but haven’t really found much answers. When I read conversations on this forum you and others also seem very kind and understanding. When I saw this topic I felt like joining and introducing myself. Maybe I’ll be able to help other people on this website, maybe I’ll find answers for my own, we’ll see.
My name is Regi, I’m in early twenties now. I haven’t had the easiest life but there are probably much people here who have had much worse. Usually when something really bad happens I stay strong on the outside. On the inside I may feel bad for some time but I recover very fast in my opinion. But about a year ago, a specific person said something specific, on a specific moment with specific people nearby. Since then I experience some sort of social anxiety (I think) and I was hoping to find some answers here.
It already felt surprisingly good writing this, it’s the first time I do something like this.
Thank you Anita for your time
Greetings, RegiApril 17, 2018 at 4:09 pm #202903
You say the anger resulting from submitting to abuse doesn’t go away. Do you think this is true even if a person works on overcoming that anger and understanding it? Isn’t anger the cover for other emotions like fear and hurt and sadness?
What I’ve tried to do is become aware of what is behind my anger…it’s usually hurt, or disappointment. Sometimes anxiety.
I’d like to hear more about your thoughts about anger Anita.
AireneApril 18, 2018 at 5:03 am #202959AnonymousGuest
Welcome to the Forums. Glad you are here. If you would like to share about what happened a year ago, in a way that is comfortable enough for you to share here, please do. You can do it here on my thread, or you can start your own thread (go to Forums at the top, click it and go from there). I will reply to you when you do share, if you do.
I wrote earlier to you that anger resulting from submitting to abuse doesn’t go away. You asked: “Do you think this is true even if a person works on overcoming that anger and understanding it?”
My answer: this anger may be resolved, I believe, yes. But not easily, not quickly and not because of the mere understanding of it. I think that people think their anger has been resolved when it is simply not felt at the time, but it is there, expressing itself nonetheless.
To resolve anger about a particular abuse, it takes not being subjected to that abuse and the abuser anymore, not in any way, shape or form. I don’t think it is possible to resolve anger while still threatened by the same person (often what happens when adult children continue contact with an abusive parent).
“Isn’t anger the cover for other emotions like fear and hurt and sadness”- I don’t think anger is a cover for other emotions. I think that when we are in danger we first feel fear than we may feel anger, in that order. In nature, when an animal perceives danger, it feels fear first, most often it runs away (the Flight Response). If it makes more sense for the animal’s survival to fight (the sense making had been decided by evolution), then the animal will feel anger following the fear. Anger motivates an animal to fight.
There are all kinds of fighting, in complex human behavior. All kinds of ways to push people away, other than physically do so.
anitaApril 25, 2018 at 1:08 pm #204123JenniferParticipant
I wanted to write a note to thank you for all the support the past 3 years (omg, it was 2015 when we first joined)! I haven’t been on the forum for awhile, but wanted to let you know I’m finally in a happier place now. 🙂
Reading your replies always provide great inspiration to me. It gives me new perspective on life for sure!
What is ‘new’ with you?
I’m in my 2nd year of marriage and things are finally starting to ‘calm down’. A bit due to maturity & a big part due to getting help. I’ve been going to therapy once every few weeks for the past 2 years or so. So has my husband. I also joined Al-Anon a few months ago. This was an eye-opener for me. I finally felt like I wasn’t alone & I haven’t been going crazy. Finally surrendering to the fact that I cannot control, cause or cure someone else’s alcoholism. What I can do is focus on myself. I’m training to become a yoga teacher & I love every minute of it (even though I get so physically tired and sore!). But the most important part is being able to find my true self and sticking with it. It is so hard in this crazy world of our’s to not get swayed by society’s pressures, but finally, I can say ‘hey, I don’t want to be like everyone else. I wanna be me!’ It is so liberating!
I wish you all the best Anita & to everyone in the Tiny Buddha Community.
May you find happiness. May you find peace.
Take care everyone!
JenniferApril 26, 2018 at 7:20 am #204235AnonymousGuest
What a lovely post! Thank you for posting it, for the good wishes. It is good to read the progress in your life. What’s new with me, you asked: your post is what is new with me this very moment and it is delightful.
You wrote: “I don’t want to be like everyone else. I wanna be me! It is so liberating!”-
I am glad you are you.