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When family dynamics you grew up with become unacceptable in adulthood

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Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 143 total)
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  • #460376
    anita
    Participant

    My post from earlier:

    Good Saturday Morning, Nea:

    I want to start by appreciating the clarity, maturity, and emotional insight you bring into these conversations. You think deeply, you integrate new ideas thoughtfully, and you’re able to look at painful dynamics with honesty rather than defensiveness. That level of reflection is rare, and I value it.

    “I’ve seen him put so much energy into friendships. Many of those friendships eventually end after some conflict or behaviour, and then new ones take their place… I even saw something similar with my husband. Their relationship felt very different in the earlier years, but the dynamic changed significantly over time, especially once work became involved… they once had a genuinely close relationship”-

    My understanding: his relationships can last only as long as the other person continues to reinforce or mirror his preferred identity: central, respected, admired and unchallenged. This is why early friendships feel warm and invested, and why his early relationship with your husband felt close.

    He feels warm emotion, but it comes from ego gratification. It is warmth rooted in how he feels about himself, not in how he feels about the other person.

    His internal sense of self is very fragile, a low tolerance for shame, or for being wrong. He cannot tolerate equality, disagreement, accountability, or emotional complexity.

    The moment a relationship requires genuine empathy, shared responsibility, or the ability to repair conflict, his emotional structure collapses. He becomes defensive, volatile, violent, or blaming, and the relationship deteriorates or ends.

    When the other person stops admiring him, disagrees with him, or no longer serves his image, the relationship deteriorates and is replaced with a new one.

    The same dynamic explains the shift with your husband: the early closeness felt real to your husband, but for your father it was conditional— based on admiration, harmony, and being seen as central or respected. Once work entered the picture, introducing hierarchy, responsibility, and the possibility of criticism, your father’s strategic restraint collapsed, and he reacted the ways he did.

    His affection depends on the other person mirroring him, not challenging him, admiring him, keeping him comfortable, and reinforcing his preferred identity. Once any of these conditions change, the affection collapses.

    Anita

    #460384
    Nea
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    First, thank you for what you said about the maturity and insight I’ve brought to these conversations. That genuinely meant a lot to me, especially during such an emotionally difficult few days. I can also see how much time you take out of your own day to respond thoughtfully to me and to others here, and I truly find that inspiring. If I knew you in person, I would honestly love to take you for coffee and bring you flowers just to thank you for listening to me and helping me process all of this these past few days. So, for now, please accept some virtual flowers instead 💐🌷

    It’s been a very emotionally and mentally heavy day, but I do understand what you meant when you mentioned stress. My background is actually in healthcare, so I understand where you were coming from. I think after the last few days, though, I really want to make a conscious effort to reduce the amount of stress I’m carrying, especially this close to having the baby.

    I think part of what has been difficult is finally seeing some of these dynamics for what they are, while also accepting that seeing them clearly doesn’t immediately make them easier emotionally.

    There’s also the situation with my husband. I love him, and I understand why he feels the way he does. But my anxiety keeps pulling me toward trying to preserve some kind of family peace. I find myself asking him to stay neutral, say hi, or maintain some basic interaction with my dad. He has told me that at family occasions he can be civil and respectful, but right now he doesn’t want to go beyond that or pretend everything is okay. I think I have to learn to accept that boundary rather than repeatedly trying to convince him otherwise simply because the distance between them makes me uncomfortable.

    Interestingly, the serenity prayer you shared — about accepting what we cannot change, having the courage to change what we can, and having the wisdom to know the difference — is something my dad himself used to say quite often. There is almost an irony in that for me now. I think he understands certain ideas intellectually but doesn’t necessarily recognize when they apply to his own behaviour.

    Even over the last few days, he made a face toward my husband during one interaction and then removed himself from another family group chat. Those things may seem small individually, but they reinforce for me that he is still reacting in his own way rather than trying to repair anything.

    I think what I’m struggling with now is accepting that perhaps there isn’t something for me to fix between them. I can love my dad, acknowledge the things he has done for me, love and support my husband, and still recognize that their relationship is ultimately theirs. Maybe my responsibility now is not to manufacture peace between them, but to stop carrying their relationship around in my own head and trying to manage everyone’s reactions.

    I understand that logically. I’m just trying to figure out how to actually live it, especially when my anxiety keeps telling me that if I don’t intervene, the family will never feel normal again.

    Nea

    #460385
    Nea
    Participant

    And to add even loving my dad or seeing the value in him has been a challenge itself.

    #460387
    anita
    Participant

    Hi Dear Nea:

    Truly, so good to read from you this Sat night!

    I just came to some first-time realizations in regard to my mother (including a new term to me, “shame reactivity” that applies to her, and I think to your father as well), and in my mind- before knowing you posted a little while ago, and not knowing if you will again, I thanked you- in my mind- because it is my communication with you (!) that made it possible.

    You wrote: “And to add even loving my dad or seeing the value in him has been a challenge itself.”-

    Talking about love, let me share with you a little bit of what I wrote tonight, a study I recorded before you posted last:

    “For most people, a small mistake or a moment of disharmony feels like: ‘Oops.’, ‘I didn’t handle that well.’, ‘Let me fix it.’ For someone with shame reactivity, even tiny imperfections feel like a threat to their identity, proof they are defective. So, instead of tolerating the moment, they react as if they are being attacked, humiliated, or destroyed. That’s why my mother’s reactions were so extreme…

    “When someone has a fragile sense of self, feeling even a tiny bit imperfect or criticized creates an unbearable internal shock — shame feels like annihilation to them. Their nervous system cannot tolerate that feeling, so instead of experiencing ‘I feel wrong,’ they flip it outward and make another person feel wrong. It’s an unconscious survival strategy: if you are the defective one, then they don’t have to feel defective. If you are small, they don’t have to feel small. If you are the problem, they don’t have to face their own shame…

    “She didn’t try to hurt me in the intentional, sadistic sense. But she did hurt me, deeply and repeatedly, because her way of surviving her own shame required making me small, wrong, powerless, ashamed, dependent.. making me disappear as a separate person.

    “She wasn’t trying to hurt me. She was trying to not feel hurt herself. And the only way she knew how to do that was to put the hurt into me…

    “I can’t hate her, because I can see she was drowning. I can’t love her, because she never met me as a person.

    “I don’t hate her. I don’t love her. I just… see her.

    “Her shame was so overwhelming that she reacted like a person in danger. She wasn’t choosing to hurt me — she was choosing to escape annihilation. Once I see that, hate dissolves. Yet, I can’t love her- because love requires reciprocity, recognition, safety, and two people existing…

    “Now I see she wasn’t a monster, she wasn’t a mother, she was a drowning person who grabbed the nearest body — my own — to stay afloat…

    “Where this leaves me- not loving, not hating. Just seeing. That is the beginning of freedom.”

    I would like to B back 2 U in the morning 🙂

    Anita

    #460394
    anita
    Participant

    Good very late morning, Nea:

    You closed your post with “my anxiety keeps telling me that if I don’t intervene, the family will never feel normal again.”-

    My thoughts (protecting my experience): Oh, that precious “‘normal'”. That long- awaited for peace, so desperately needed.

    Of course, any “normal” is not really normal, It’s just a lull before the next storm, but a child needs to believe she’s safe, at least at times, so to take a break from her.. normal state of hyper-viggilence.

    I think that part of it is the child’s desperate need to believe that she has some power in the situation, that she can intervene and bring peace to the volatile home environment, a wishful thinking that makes the situation feel a bit more bearable, a little less out of control.

    Your thoughts, Nea?

    🤔 Anita

    #460396
    anita
    Participant

    Edit: That long awaited feeling of peace

    #460398
    Nea
    Participant

    Good afternoon Anita!

    Thanks again for sharing this, Anita. The study you shared about love and family dynamics was really interesting, and I think it’s given me quite a few things to reflect on.

    I think what you mentioned about the need to restore peace really resonates with me too. I feel like I’m caught in this crossfire between wanting peace, wanting to stand my ground, supporting my husband, and also being so close to labor. All of those anxious thoughts seem to get jumbled together, and I start feeling like I need to somehow fix everything.

    The other day I was reflecting a lot on family conflict and how deeply fights used to disturb me growing up. I think part of what I’m realizing now is that I need to do better at breaking that pattern rather than continuing to feel responsible for restoring peace whenever something goes wrong.

    I also think that, over the years, my husband and I became very close with my family. He wanted that closeness too, but looking back, I think the boundaries became blurred to the point where the respect and peace that should have existed weren’t always fully there. Especially with my parents, I started noticing that even smaller things could become issues, and perhaps we had all become a little too intertwined.

    I think my biggest struggle now is learning to separate my relationship with my husband and the family we are building from my relationship with my parents and extended family. And maybe part of that is accepting that my husband doesn’t have to process this the same way I do. If what he can offer right now is simply being civil, rather than letting everything go or returning to the closeness that existed before, I need to learn that it’s okay. I don’t have to force everyone back into the version of “normal” that makes me feel temporarily safe.

    Nea

    #460401
    anita
    Participant

    Hi Nea:

    I’ll reply further later but for now I wanted to copy these two definitions for later use:

    Childhood rescuer role- This is when a child feels responsible for keeping the family calm, safe, or emotionally stable. The child tries to prevent fights, soothe adults, fix problems, or hold everything together because it feels dangerous not to. It’s a survival strategy. The child believes, “If I don’t fix this, something bad will happen.”

    Adult differentiation- This is the adult ability to see yourself as separate from your parents, separate from their emotions. It means you don’t merge with their emotions. You stay in your own emotional lane. This is the core of adult differentiation — the ability to let others have their feelings without losing your center. You can protect your own family, your own boundaries, and your own emotional space. It’s the shift from “I must fix everything” to “I can let others handle their own feelings.”

    #460405
    anita
    Participant

    Hi Nea 🙂

    Thank you for the virtual flowers you sent me yesterday 🙏

    “Perhaps we had all become a little too interwined”-

    You mentioned your husband losing his parents at a young age, so, I guess he looked up to your father as a father figure, not just your father but maybe his own?

    If so, imagine his hurt and disappointment.

    I wonder if your father looked at your husband as a possible son?

    And your husband disappointed him, just as everyone does, sooner or later?

    * It was always the case with my mother- everyone disappointed her.. sooner than later.

    When a person carries too much shame inside… ( have to get off the phone, will be back momentarily)

    #460407
    anita
    Participant

    Continued:

    * My mother carried so so much shame inside, that it was only a-matter-of-time before something about the other person triggered the shame and led to an explosion of one kind or another.

    Certain expressions on my face, nothing that I could monitor or control, trigerred her shame and led to punitive explosions. My eyes looking in the ‘wrong’ direction was enough.

    I remember only a few years ago, I was sitting on a dental chair, having my teeth cleaned by a physically big female dental hygenist who was humming pleasantly as she worked.

    Although she placed sharp metal things in my mouth, I was relaxing into her humming, feeling safe, like I could trust her that she won’t hurt me. I could depend on her. Nothing bad was about to happen.

    If only I had a mother like that.. a mom.

    Next, moving to the computer.

    #460408
    anita
    Participant

    Hi again, Nea:

    You wrote last night: “I can love my dad, acknowledge the things he has done for me, love and support my husband, and still recognize that their relationship is ultimately theirs.”-

    I think that’s excellent insight: their relationship is ultimately theirs. Not for you to supervise, monitor or fix.

    I have no doubt that you love your father ever since you were a little girl.

    “I can love my dad; acknowledge the things he has done for me”- and acknowledge the things he has done against you.

    You wrote today: “I don’t have to force everyone back into the version of ‘normal’ that makes me feel temporarily safe”- Wow, Nea, I love this insight!

    That temporary- safety, what was it like for you?

    From my earlier post, about “adult differentiation”: “It means you don’t merge with (his) emotions. You stay in your own emotional lane”.

    I didn’t live in my own lane. I lived in hers and it was sincerely terrible to live in her volatile, explosive lane. My healing- changing is not about fixing her lane but stepping away from it and into my own lane.

    Anita

    #460410
    Nea
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Hope you had a good day overall! 🙂

    It was really interesting to learn about the childhood rescuer role and adult differentiation. I can definitely recognize some of that in myself. As a child, and honestly throughout much of my life, I often tried to keep everything together. I would apologize even when I hadn’t done anything wrong, walk on eggshells, and adjust myself to manage my parents’ emotions — both of them, but especially my dad.

    That continued well into my 20s. It’s really only recently that I’ve started trying to stay in my own “emotional lane,” as you described it. I think that’s partly why this situation feels so uncomfortable and anxiety-provoking right now. It isn’t what I’m used to. Letting my dad remain angry, not trying to resolve it for him, and keeping some distance while we’re still living in his house feels incredibly awkward. My instinct is still to somehow make everything okay, even though I’m starting to understand that it isn’t necessarily my responsibility to do that.

    And yes, my husband truly did see my dad as a father figure. He really looked up to him. He would try to do things for him, especially emotionally, and I think for a long time he genuinely tried to see the best in him. My dad may have viewed my husband as a son too. At the same time, I’ve seen my dad develop similar intense attachments with other people, even people who initially were essentially strangers. He can begin viewing someone almost like family, give a lot emotionally or financially, and then if he feels disappointed or hurt, things can swing to the other extreme — anger, disappointment, or completely cutting the person off. So I think there may be more to that pattern as well.

    When I think about what “temporary safety” meant for me, I think it was peace — everyone somehow getting along, even if it was only on the surface. It was also this need for my parents, and especially my dad, to see me as a “good daughter.” Their words and their disappointment could hurt me so easily, so I spent a lot of time trying to make sure I wasn’t the cause of anyone being upset.

    But I’m beginning to realize that no matter how selfless I tried to be or how much I tried to keep everyone happy, I couldn’t control my dad’s narrative of me. If he decides to see me a certain way, I may not be able to change that. I think accepting that is painful, but also important.

    So now I really need to learn how to focus on myself, my own family, and my own emotional lane — without feeling that I have to fix everyone else’s feelings in order to feel safe.

    Nea

    #460411
    Nea
    Participant

    Better said than done tho! Today was much better. I spent some nice quality time with my husband. I’m just focusing on that and being happy for my baby girl!

    #460413
    anita
    Participant

    Getting close to another midnight…

    “Feels incredibly awkward.”- it felt A.W.K.W.A.R.D when I stepped out of my mother’s emotional lane and into my own emotional lane.

    Like.. wait, this is strange, new, uncomfortable. (I was so sickly adjusted to her lane).

    “And yes, my husband truly did see my dad as a father figure”- I feel so sad for him.. and for the child- you because you saw your father as “a dad”. That word, “dad”, like “mom”, suggesting someone safe, dependable.

    Back 2 U in the morning.

    #460414
    anita
    Participant

    “I spent some nice quality time with my husband. I’m just focusing on that and being happy for my baby girl!”-

    👍 👌 🙏🌼

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 143 total)

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