Dear Ben:

“I think the hardest is not knowing how he is feeling, or felt at all. Is he doing this because, at the very end, he actually hadn’t really loved me? Or he doesn’t anymore? I worry that if he is acting like this now, maybe he didn’t really care at all and is something of a charlatan. I don’t think 100% that he is, but it’s a doubt that plagues my mind… I worry he is only talking to me out of pity. I worry he feels obligated to talk to me out of that sense of pity. Or even out of guilt“-

-it’s like you can’t believe that you were genuinely desired and wanted for the person that you are; as if you find it believable that he was deceptive (a charlatan) or that he pitied you or that he felt guilty and obligated, but you don’t find it believable that he .. truly, genuinely enjoyed your company because of who you are, for what you expressed to him.

I had to go back to your first thread to look again at the origin of you not believing that you can be loved, and I found it in your Oct 31, 2018, almost five years ago. NOTE: re-reading what you shared back then may be upsetting to you and not something you want to read right now, so please take your time and read the following only if you are able and willing:

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Here is what you shared about your father on Oct 31, 2018: “I was never recognized as a man by him, just as a sort of… idk… mistake…  I had not ‘unlearned’ or left dormant for long enough those shaming pathways that are so strong”–

– five years later, I say: you are lovable, you are worthy of love. You are precious. I know these things as a result of our communication then and now. My words coming to you from the computer screen cannot reach deep enough to undo those shaming pathways. But I know from my very personal experience, that it is possible to undo a huge part of those shaming pathways. I didn’t know it was possible until- and it wasn’t long ago- I FELT differently, I felt like everyone else, a NEW feeling (I am typing now whatever comes to my mind in effort to explain this): I felt like other people around me, not LESS, not strangely different/ irreversibly damaged and faulty. I wish I felt like this when I was younger, as in your age… What an amazing experience it was, what a different quality of life-experience.

Continued quote from above: “I don’t love myself … Dad.. hmm for sure, I want justice. I know I want it, but I sort of shy away from actually getting it. I remember when I was 17 I shouted at him for at least an hour about all the pain he had caused me..  I was drunk after a party…  indeed every time, he sort of turns it back towards me… I still create arguments in my head with him.. but, a part of me goes.. please, can we just leave this alone and move on with life?… I notice I’m frustrated all the time and shout at other people.. innocent people on the bus for example.. well, not shouting, aloud… I get angry and call them names in my head. But, this is exhausting, I want to love the world I live in and this negative energy is draining“-

-to love yourself, don’t shy away from seeking the little justice that you can exact for yourself. Your anger at him has always been valid, and valid anger calls for some kind of action. What action is right and just, practical (and legal), tailored to your situation-  I don’t know. But some justice needs to take place. And then, you can move on with life, free from shame and from this negative energy.

Back to your most recent post and to the guy we’ve been discussing: “I think the hardest is not knowing how he is feeling, or felt at all… he doesn’t really care if he loses me, which makes me despair somewhat“- if you were free from shame and believed that you are lovable, regardless of how he is feeling, you would feel sad for a while, but you wouldn’t despair.

Regarding my suggested message, you wrote: “I think I have sent him ‘words to that effect’, but not now after some time has passed. I did say at one point that I was feeling all sorts of emotions and he said ‘oh dear’ and nothing else… which didn’t help at all. But maybe now if I write something like that, I will receive some sort of honest response.“- if you do send him a message like the one I suggested, making it your own, using the words that are most true to you: copy the message, if you will, and his response- if any, so to share with me (if you feel comfortable doing so, of course). It will be very telling.

But you will need to feel strong enough to endure a less than desirable response, to be open to whatever comes from him.

“I worry too I have misinterpreted and actually I really should act like it is gone forever. That he doesn’t love me at all anymore, or have any feelings at all. Or is that the anxious attachment?“- (1) in a practical sense, if his love is gone forever, sending him a message like the one I suggested, will not cause him to lose love that is already..  gone forever. (2) Of course it’s anxious attachment on your part. Yes.

anita

Dear Stacy:

You are very welcome and thank you for respecting my request, and going about it so graciously:  I appreciate you for it!

“So you’re saying that because I felt validation, refuge, acceptance, etc. in him and his family that it made me feel safe to finally resume my growth that was stunted in me?“-

– yes, enough so that you felt like a sexy woman and not like a 12-year old (“When I have sex with men, I feel like a 12 year old“=> “made me finally feel like a woman…  actually sexy”). 

Feeling validated, accepted, safe.. is HUGE. And yes, if you felt that way as a child growing up, your life would have been so much better for it. A 1- year romantic relationship breakup wouldn’t have been Extremely painful (the title of your thread), and clarity, not confusion would have been your ongoing state of mind.

“I also think the attention I got from a guy who usually only went for the conventionally attractive ‘popular’ girls stroked my ego. I was bullied all through school by the popular jock types and the cheerleaders. I wanted to be accepted by them“-

– I didn’t know that you were bullied in school, and all through school by the kinds of girls that he normally went for. I now understand better what it meant to you, to be chosen over the kind of girls who bullied you.

And I understand better why (1) it hurt your feelings so much that he was liking photos of the jock-type girls who bullied you, and (2) his association with the Tik Tok star hurt and bothered you as much as it did. You wanted/ needed him to keep choosing you.

“Interesting though that he was not your stereotypical player, he’s a self-proclaimed beta nerd and that’s another reason why it’s hard to accept he could really be just like all the other toxically alpha men out there“-

-beta nerd, online: “Someone who lacks the masculinity of an alpha male. They are unconfrontational and are unable to assert male dominance”- this fits, by the way, with his sexual fantasy of being shamed by a woman. I am guessing- and it is only a theoretical possibility about how this fantasy came about- that let’s say that when he was a child, his mother asserted her dominance over him in ways that shamed him as a little person and as a male. But she also expressed affection for him: both shame and love. Fast forward, shame and love are connected in his mind, and for him to feel (particularly) loved, he also needs to feel shamed.

I suppose him proclaiming to be a beta nerd made you feel safer with him, in that as someone with a lesser masculinity, he would not pursue the kind of girls that bullied you.

“I know this relationship was also a form of escapism because as soon as I come home from my job, I see my mom sitting on the couch all day long in pain and self-wallowing, and the septic tank repair bill or some other stressful and real life issue constantly plaguing us that I have to take responsibility for or emotionally support her over. I don’t feel like I get to have my own adult life or sense of identity outside of her and these issues so perhaps dating this guy also gave me a sense of MY OWN LIFE. I’ve never moved out of the house or had my own separate life outside of her“-

-this is very valuable information to my understanding of you and the relationship. He meant ANOTHER KIND OF LIFE for you, YOUR OWN. Clearly, you need to move out and leave the-story-of-your-childhood (a story you didn’t choose; a story you were born into) behind, so that you can author your own story, and live your own  life.

My mother self-wallowed a lot when I was growing up (I prefer to say growing-in, instead of growing-up because I/ my identity did not grow, but shrank) and way into my adulthood. Her expressed misery kept me locked in misery (her misery=> my misery). I felt angry at her and guilty, all at the same time; wanting to leave but feeling too guilty to leave her/ live my own life. I was stuck in emotional torture.

“No wonder I’m mourning so many losses with him. It seems like money issues and repairs constantly keep us stuck in a hole and the thought of just a day trip somewhere for fun is unimaginable for my family. Meanwhile, his parents were just on a 3 week trip to Italy“- I was wondering as I read this if you were hoping that a rich guy will provide the money to take care of your mother and free you from that burden? That used to be my hope and dream growing-in.

“Sadly, my mom is already heading towards 70 in a few months and I fear more than anything that by the time I’ll be finally able to move out, she’s gonna need me more than ever. I don’t want to abandon her when her health goes seriously downhill. I could never live with myself if something happened to her without me being there for her. I know I have to live my own life, but the guilt I’d feel from that would be horrific“-

– I read this part after writing the above (this is how I normally reply: reading one sentence/ a few, responding and then reading what’s next), and here it is: GUILT. I know guilt. I used to think- I was either a teenager or a very young 20s- I used to think: if I could live ONE DAY without guilt, my life would be worth living. What a torment guilt is!

“I had found common ground with my ex over this too, as his parents were in their 70’s as well and he understood my concerns. He felt the same sense of responsibility to his parents“- they can afford a live-in caretaker, or a nice residential care facility, right?  No such thing is available or possible for your mother (a nursing home, or in-home care, financed by the state perhaps)?

“Your point about me looking much more into things than him is also probably what happened. I know on most subjects that was our dynamic and we’d even joke about it. I saw a lot of emotional availability and intentionality from him at the beginning into a few months of dating. I genuinely thought I felt his passion for me for awhile so I hope I wasn’t imagining that“- I feel certain that there really was a passion on his part, a passion for you, and that his passion fueled your hopes for the relationship. But I suppose you thought that this passion of his would translate into real-life circumstances changes (moving in together, etc.), which it did not. What a disappointment..

“It hurts to think he never saw a future with me or any sort of commitment from the start, and rather he treated us as a guinea pig first relationship project. That makes it feel like EVERYTHING was a lie or wasn’t genuine for him… I don’t know what his motives were. If he didn’t mean to do any of this harm, that’s one thing. If it was intentional and careless and he just used me as a rebound, that’s another.“-

– my understanding: he is not together-enough, not capable of forming an intent/ a goal in the context of a romantic relationship, and in other contexts I imagine (the reason he is the only person in his immediate family to not have a college degree/ a Master at the least?), and then planning a long-term strategy to accomplish the goal. Therefore, I don’t think that he had the goal of going about the relationship as a guinea pig project.

I don’t think that he pretended to have passion for you (It takes patience and persistence to pretend for long, which is not congruent with his ADHD condition), and I don’t think that he used you as a rebound.

anita

Dear Ben:

I will reply further tomorrow morning (it is Mon evening here). But for now, about how to interpret his words, the emoji, the frequency of contact, etc.: I am guessing that there is no particular intent on this part and then going about it in a strategic way (no deceit, no fraud, like what was suggested to you). He has been experiencing a CONFLICT in regard to his feelings and relationship with you vs his relationship with the man for whom he has a complex mix of feelings, a man who financially supports him, and he hasn’t fully resolved this conflict.

So he is here now, there later, neither here nor there at this or that time, distracting himself or being distracted and putting the conflict out of his mind when he can. I am guessing.

anita

Dear Searching:

“I am more of an introvert and usually veer towards having a few close relationships rather than many… I’m am probably old fashioned (hesitant about apps ) and would rather meet someone organically.. and my workplace is not the kind where I get to meet new people“-

– if it’s difficult for you, as an introvert, to socialize in the context of large gatherings of people, and you don’t have  opportunities to meet one small number of new people at a time, then maybe online dating can work for you if you work it.. in an old fashioned way. You can choose the app that fits you better than other apps, present yourself in a way that suits your old fashioned ways, and interact with people in ways that feel right to you. Does this make any sense to you?

anita

Dear Stacy:

You are welcome. I will respond to your most recent post (and other posts) like I usually do: quote a sentence, or a series of sentences, and follow with my thoughts, then quote the next sentence, etc., developing my thoughts and understanding as I go along. (I will be adding the boldface feature to your and other quotes):

“I have never been chosen or wanted by a guy who I find attractive and impressive. Not until this guy“- sounds like this guy has been, in your mind, a sort of god (ex., from the bible: “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth”, Deuteronomy, 14:2, “For many are called, but few are chosen.”, Matthew 24:14).

Looking at the title of your thread: “Extremely painful breakup and confusion“- I have no doubt that significantly lessening your pain and confusion will include taking him off of that elevated position, the godly pedestal where he does not belong.

“I know this is messed up and it’s always been a problem for me where I feel perpetually stunted with my physical body and my place in life. I don’t feel like a woman. When I have sex with men, I feel like a 12 year old“- when we grow up in a home that feels unsafe, our emotional growth gets stunted. It happened to me: strangely (felt strange to me), as I was healing in middle age, I felt so very much like a child. There was a serious disconnect between how I felt and how my face looked in the mirror. In my mind’s eye, I was a preteen, or younger. What happened was that growing up, I dissociated, sort of placing my growth on hold until such time that it will be safe to reconnect with life again and continue to grow.

It was not a personal choice on my part, it’s how nature works. For example, when a tree does not have enough water available, it stops growing and sheds its leaves.. until such time when it has enough water to resume growing.

“I was enamored by how attracted I was to him in every way, and I absolutely felt that he was super impressive. I’ve never been flattered by other men finding me attractive and for me to have this with him made me finally feel like a woman…  actually sexy“- he.. made you a woman, almost (“Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man”, Genesis 2:22).

“I just genuinely do not believe a conventionally attractive man who has an impressive life and travel or sexual experiences with other affluent women could recognize me as a sexually attractive woman“- he recognized you as a woman.. he “made” you a woman.

“It may sound shallow“- nothing at all that you shared so far sounds shallow to me.

“but I just want to feel like a woman, a capable woman and to be desired by a man who actually impresses me. He was that guy for me, and it’s hard to lose“- a regular guy couldn’t have done it. It took a very special guy. No wonder it is hard to lose The One who made this magic happen.

* It’s a good thing that it happened no matter how it happened: you wanted to feel like a sexually desired woman and you felt it. This means that you can feel it again.

“My life is a lot more bleak compared to the women he is lusting after. They travel literally all over the world and they are all hyper-sexually liberated women“– did you talk to these women privately or are you basing this understanding (that they are hyper-sexually liberated women) on their TikTok financial interactions & other such advertisements? Maybe many- maybe most- are effective, successful performers.

Dear Stacy:

I read your whole recent post this Sun evening, and I kept thinking, as I was reading, that you are a good, decent person. Your beauty as a person shines through your words. If I was the guy, I would so very much appreciate you, love you and honor you.

You’ve been giving him too much power over how you feel about yourself, power he didn’t earn and does not deserve: WHO is he to determine your worth? What did he do to deserve this power? His parents’ PhDs don’t give him this power, neither do this siblings Master Degrees, nor how much money they have in their bank accounts. What did he DO to have this power to determine your worth..?

He is just a guy you knew nothing about a year ago. It doesn’t really matter what he thinks, what he meant when he said this or that.. except that it matters to you because you give him power that he does not deserve.

I know that I am a stranger from the internet, a stranger to you, but I know you better (!)  than this guy knows you: I know that you are an intelligent, conscientious, caring, fair and just person: you are the best that humanity has to offer. Please consider that I know what I am talking about (I do!)

I will reply further Mon morning.

anita

Dear Neha:

I think that you’ve been a very good girlfriend for a long time, but for at least a few months he hasn’t been a good boyfriend to you because either he doesn’t notice how much suffering you’ve been going through since he quit his job, or he knows.. and doesn’t take it seriously enough to do something about it.

I think that you should not loan/ give him any more money. Think about the possibility of asking him to take 6,000 out of his credit card account, or accounts, and give that money back to you.

So, there are two items I am pointing to: (1) his lack of awareness/ caring about your emotional suffering for so long (2) the money topic.

(I will be back to the computer in about 8- 18 hours from now)

anita