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PeterParticipant
Great work! Love to hear your thoughts as you progress.
I found that a turning point with my work on the ego came with the realization of the role ‘ego’ has in experience.
Following literal practices, I attempted to kill the ego. I wanted to live with total detachment from the ego/self… only that tended to lead to indifference and depression. I was unintentionally creating a resistance to the flow of Life.
Instead of seeking an literal ego death the practice adapted to one of symbolic ego death and its transformation. This lead to accepting the ‘ego’ place within experience.
Today I feel the ‘ego sense of I’, to which all communication of experiences relies on, is just that. The ego is the part of us that relays information about experiences, particularly when we verbalize the experience. (Try talking about experience without thinking I) It is through the ego communication that the opportunity arises allowing the unconscious to become conscious – awakening. The trap is to mistake the ego sense of ‘small s self I’ experiences as the SELF.
Instead of killing the ego the ego was befriended similarly to the befriending of the mind and body. The befriending removing resistance to the flow of Life as it is.
I do not ‘know’ what the self is, even if it exists. I do ‘know’ what it is not. The ‘I am’ is not the ego or the body, or the mind… perhaps it is the still point that observes experience of ego, body and mind… When ‘I’ sense the still point, trying to observe the observer, it just laughs at me ?
PeterParticipantI’ve think it’s a wonderful realization that will take you places you have yet to imagine!
Life and death are not so much as opposites but integral aspects of the other. Life as it is.
Physiologically change is often experienced as a kind of dying especially by the ego/small s self. Often this need to change is projected outward into a suicidal wish to die. However, by creating a space to observe such thoughts, pulling back the projection and going inward most people will discover that they don’t really want to die but instead are longing to Become (but afraid). The capital S Self is always driving us to become, but we tend to try block it and dam ourselves up.
Becoming conscious of the death/life/death reality we can begin the process of learning how to enter the flow of Life (as it is) instead of fighting it.
Meditation can be a good place to start. In mediation each breath becomes an surrender to the death/life/death process that is life. Each exhalation a dying each inhalation a rebirth. Each breath a possibility of awakening… a ‘reincarnation’ if you will.
If one is really prepared to die there is no reason to fear where Life might take you… and what a ride it will be.
PeterParticipantWriting the post as a kind of stream of consciousness (which was very well done) is a good place to start to understand what issues belong to you and those that are your partners.
Start by breaking down your post and identifying and cognitive distortions (Below are common cognitive distortions) List the distortions that have shown up and ask yourself what payoff you might be getting for thinking that way. Notice (become mindful) of which type of distortion shows up the most. Under stress is there a tendency to frame the experience through that lens of this distortion? Did the distortions give you permission to focuses on what others may or may not be doing? If so Its likely you identified a projection and shadow work is required. (Google Shadow work or Shadow Dancing)
Once you remove the distortions you will be better able to identify the main issues that have gotten you to this present state of distress. It is likely that you will discover that there are not as many issues as you thought.
The experience of being overwhelm and lost may be due a feeling that an undefined everything was wrong. By taking time to breath and taking a honest look at your thinking you will be in a better place to deal with the issues that are in your power to deal with.
Cognitive Distortions
- Filtering.
We take the negative details and magnify them while filtering out all positive aspects of a situation. For instance, a person may pick out a single, unpleasant detail and dwell on it exclusively so that their vision of reality becomes darkened or distorted.
- Polarized Thinking (or “Black and White” Thinking).
In polarized thinking, things are either “black-or-white.” We have to be perfect or we’re a failure — there is no middle ground. You place people or situations in “either/or” categories, with no shades of gray or allowing for the complexity of most people and situations. If your performance falls short of perfect, you see yourself as a total failure.
- Overgeneralization.
In this cognitive distortion, we come to a general conclusion based on a single incident or a single piece of evidence. If something bad happens only once, we expect it to happen over and over again. A person may see a single, unpleasant event as part of a never-ending pattern of defeat.
- Jumping to Conclusions.
Without individuals saying so, we know what they are feeling and why they act the way they do. In particular, we are able to determine how people are feeling toward us.
- Catastrophizing.
We expect disaster to strike, no matter what. This is also referred to as “magnifying or minimizing.” We hear about a problem and use what if questions (e.g., “What if tragedy strikes?” “What if it happens to me?”).
- Personalization.
Personalization is a distortion where a person believes that everything others do or say is some kind of direct, personal reaction to the person. We also compare ourselves to others trying to determine who is smarter, better looking, etc.
- Control Fallacies.
If we feel externally controlled, we see ourselves as helpless a victim of fate. For example, “I can’t help it if the quality of the work is poor, my boss demanded I work overtime on it.” The fallacy of internal control has us assuming responsibility for the pain and happiness of everyone around us. For example, “Why aren’t you happy? Is it because of something I did?”
- Fallacy of Fairness.
We feel resentful because we think we know what is fair, but other people won’t agree with us. As our parents tell us when we’re growing up and something doesn’t go our way, “Life isn’t always fair.” People who go through life applying a measuring ruler against every situation judging its “fairness” will often feel badly and negative because of it. Because life isn’t “fair” — things will not always work out in your favor, even when you think they should.
- Blaming.
We hold other people responsible for our pain, or take the other track and blame ourselves for every problem. For example, “Stop making me feel bad about myself!” Nobody can “make” us feel any particular way — only we have control over our own emotions and emotional reactions.
- Shoulds.
We have a list of ironclad rules about how others and we should behave. People who break the rules make us angry, and we feel guilty when we violate these rules. A person may often believe they are trying to motivate themselves with shoulds and shouldn’ts, as if they have to be punished before they can do anything.
- Emotional Reasoning.
We believe that what we feel must be true automatically. If we feel stupid and boring, then we must be stupid and boring. You assume that your unhealthy emotions reflect he way things really are — “I feel it, therefore it must be true.”
- Fallacy of Change.
We expect that other people will change to suit us if we just pressure or cajole them enough. We need to change people because our hopes for happiness seem to depend entirely on them.
- Global Labeling.
We generalize one or two qualities into a negative global judgment. These are extreme forms of generalizing, and are also referred to as “labeling” and “mislabeling.” Instead of describing an error in context of a specific situation, a person will attach an unhealthy label to themselves.
- Always Being Right.
We are continually on trial to prove that our opinions and actions are correct. Being wrong is unthinkable and we will go to any length to demonstrate our rightness. For example, “I don’t care how badly arguing with me makes you feel, I’m going to win this argument no matter what because I’m right.” Being right often is more important than the feelings of others around a person who engages in this cognitive distortion, even loved ones.
- Heaven’s Reward Fallacy.
We expect our sacrifice and self-denial to pay off, as if someone is keeping score. We feel bitter when the reward doesn’t come.
PeterParticipantHi Mike
I found reading your post difficult to read. Its obvious you’re in a lot of pain.
One of the purpose of relationship is that it will present us with the opportunity (force us some might say) to confront our issues and point us in the direction of individuation. The goal two people in relationship together and at the same time authentically themselves. (Two become One by remaining Two – that is not a paradox)
It can be a difficult as part of the process involves projecting our shadow and fears onto the other. Projection allows us to see the issue that need to be dealt with. However, if we don’t realize the issue is a projection of our own fears and shadow we might assume the problem belongs to our partner. Its all their fault and the issue becomes entrenched vice healed.
I’m not sure if that’s is what your doing, however projection and transference is almost always involved in any relationship. There also appears to be some cognitive distortions involved in the post which may be clouding the issue.
Consoling might be helpful to figure all that stuff out.
I would also recommend the books of David Richo. I found his book ‘How to be an Adult’ really helpful.
March 1, 2018 at 7:19 am in reply to: If Anyone Would Care to Critique, I Have Quite a Few Poems That I Wrote #195383PeterParticipantThe Door to Dreams… hauntingly beautiful bitter sweet…
PeterParticipantI do not think that detachment would lead to indifference, and this for two reasons. First, even the most secluded hermit still needs to find shelter….
I have struggled with the concept of detachment and not falling into the trap of indifferent so hope you don’t mind that I’m using your posts to help me clarify my thoughts.
When I imagine of a monastic life I’m assuming one in which much of the day is spend in contemplation, meditation/prayer and taking care of the general stuff – food, shelter, cleaning, … the danger of indifference with regards to life out side of that.
From what I’ve read the intention of such contemplation and mediation is to lead an awakening to life as it is – the life/death/life cycle… the good the bad and the ugly (which are neither good, bad or ugly) and know (gnostic knowing) that life as it is… is Love (And You are It).
To get to a place where one can say Yes to this realisation one learns to become detached from outcomes, suffering, joy… and in this way be in the present. One will continue to notice outcomes…suffering and joy, the cycle of life – death – life however one is not attached to these experiences but a kind of observer of experiences.
(I wonder that if the self does exist is exists at the still point as the observer. ‘I’ am not my thoughts ‘the still point I’ observes thoughts. ‘I am not my experiences, feelings, ‘the still point I’ observes experiences, feeling…)
When you begin these practices enviably the thought comes that all is meaningless. That if all that happens is as it must be, life as it is, working towards some specific end is pointless. If one is detached from any experience why bother? (Of course, such thoughts indicate one continues to be attached and the whole process becomes a tangle and you begin again) Easy to understand how detachment often ends in indifference and depression.
My observation is that many of those who practice detachment don’t engage in life. They do enough to feed and shelter themselves but they don’t engage in life, or vote. If they engage in life they quickly lose the ‘serenity’ that they had achieved when being still so one can understand the temptation to remain still and fall into interference.
The trick then is to awaken to a way of being that can say Yes to Life as it is, know it to be Love while continuing to engage in Life. Acting out one’s truths while being detached from those truths, which may or may not be correct… but as they are yours in this moment must be lived out if one is to be authentic. Open of course, to doing better when learning better.
I think/feel that if someone reaches that kind of state of being one could only view and participate in life from a place of compassion. At such a point questions of purpose, meaning, the good, the bad… the problem of opposites… disappear, become unskillful. This way of being that is ‘present’ while sitting still and or acting and engaging Life where ever you find yourself.
That probably doesn’t make any sense, but there you go.
PeterParticipantHi greenshade
I was recently listing to some of Alan Watts talks. In one of them he was talking about the how when we we state our intuitions the ‘Adversary’ will create the opportunities to practice. Life it seems likes to a ‘good’ joke and play the trickster.
It is ironic that as you are attempting to deal with your depression and abandonment issues your therapist and support system can’t show up for you. Not funny however what you learn from these experiences and how you handle them (creating healthy boundaries) will be a big part of how you move forward and grow.
In his book ‘How to be an Adult’ David Richo wrote about the issue of being present to another in relationship. We tend to like the Hollywood story where two people can be 100% present to one other 24/7. The reality is that the best we can give and should expect (from the person we are relationship in) is 20%. That might not sound like much but works out to about 4 – 5 hours a day. That’s allot of attention. I suspect what we can give and expect from friends is less.
Anyway, good for you in addressing the issue and working on creating respectful boundaries/expectations in your relationships.
PeterParticipantThe story of the poisoned arrow comes to mind.
It’s just as if a man were wounded with an arrow thickly smeared with poison. His friends & companions, kinsmen & relatives would provide him with a surgeon, and the man would say, ‘I won’t have this arrow removed until I know whether the man who wounded me was a noble warrior, a priest, a merchant, or a worker.’ He would say, ‘I won’t have this arrow removed until I know the given name & clan name of the man who wounded me… until I know whether he was tall, medium, or short… until I know whether he was dark, ruddy-brown, or golden-colored… until I know….’ The man dies
A need to understanding can very easily become a trap at the same time may be a necessary part of the process of healing and acceptance. When it comes to emotional pain it is not always so easy to locate the arrow that needs to be dealt with.
Of course, there are many paths a person might take. Having found myself in the ‘understanding’ trap many times I’ve had to become very mindful to avoid it. One of the realization I’ve had is that an authentic part of me likes to work at understanding the why and cutting that part of myself off created a different wounding.
Through the practice ballroom dancing I learned that you start by gaining an understanding of the steps, rhythms, concepts about connection… but then there is a point where you get to ‘forget’ what you learned and dance. The trick in healing and emotional pain is knowing when you have arrived at the tipping point of acceptance where if you can choose to let it go of the process and dance.
Here is a question for you. When does a seeker get to be a finder?
Sometimes I wonder if when Siddhārtha Gautama in his seeking achieved enlightenment and became Buddha did he become a finder and so get to stop seeking? Did he get to find at least a sense of contentment in his finding?
PeterParticipantYour extroverted friends do not intend not to support you… they are just less likely to understand why you don’t want the same things as they do. Understandable as most of the messages we receive from various media are about wanting/needing to “have it all”… even though few people know what “having it all” means or would even look like or what they would do if they had it.
Your doing what is best for you and that is all that matters. Well done! Though yes it would be nice if your friends could see that.
Have you read the book ‘Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking’ by Susan Cain?
- This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantFriends with Benefits… Its hard to day how sex might impact a relationship but I don’t think one can break it down into a male or female thing.
Just a few years ago such a question would assume that what men and woman wanted from sex was determined by their gender. Men could have (and must want) as much sex as they could get without feeling where a woman could/should only have sex from a place of Love and commitment…
Today the attitude towards sex is changing and I wonder if we might not be moving towards a time when sex and committed Love relationship are connected at all… unless the two people chose for it to be.
I remember a presentation given by a young woman about swinging. How she and her husband would stare into each others’ eyes as they were ‘being serviced’ by others. The other people involved were objects no different then a sex toy… which she implied was the only way such an arrangement works.
With regards to FWB I would assume that the ground rules were the same. Two people using each other for sexual gratification. That if either involved wanted something deeper the FWB relationship ends, and I guess if such a desire to take the relationship to a different level is one sided that the friendship ends.
PeterParticipantThe book by Lewis B. Smedes – ‘The Art of Forgiving: When You Need to Forgive and Don’t Know how’ is a good guide.
The practice of mindfulness might be a good place to start. Practice noticing when your thoughts become obsessive and fixated on the ‘story and feeling of being rejected’. The trick here is to notice without judging and labeling and in this way remaining a detached observer.
Detachment is not the same as Indifference so notice how your thoughts ‘affect’ you. What emotions come to the surface. As an observer you notice the emotions without becoming the emotion. Perhaps you notice the thoughts are connected to the emotion of sadness or fear, or resentment… without “becoming sad”, fearful or resentful. The observer remains a still point of compassion, for yourself and others – in that space forgiveness becomes possible (forgiveness is a letting go not a forgetting. You mourn what you experienced as a loss, lean into it and step forward).
As an observer to your thoughts check them for cognitive distortions. What is it you know and what thoughts are based on imaginings.
For example. A part of your story is that had you been held by your birth parents you would now be free of a fear of rejection and so emotionally healthy. Notice that these thoughts are speculative, you do not know, and the story would not stop at that point. So, continue the story. Your birth parents kept you but their fears of not being able to care for you were real. They loved you but could not care or provide for you as your adoptive parents did. Perhaps there were days you went hungry and limited education possibilities that let you fall though the cracks. In stead of a fear of rejection you became angry and envious of others…. Statistically that is the more likely story then the one you have been telling.
If there comes a time when you overcome your obsessive thoughts of rejection and not being good enough. As an observer you will notice that the solution occurred the moment you stopped and took responsibility for your thoughts and how you direct your consciousness. You will have realized that you are not your past or your thoughts or your consciousness but director of thoughts and your consciousness. You can spend another 10 years digging into your past to get to that point or you can start today. I cannot change what happened to me, I have mourned what could not be. I chose to move forward from where I am (which is the only place any of us can move from)
PeterParticipantHi Jim
I hope you don’t mind if I push back a little. Your situation reminds me of the following story told by the Buddha
“Suppose a man is struck by a poisoned arrow and the doctor wishes to take out the arrow immediately. Suppose the man does not want the arrow removed until he knows who shot it, his age, how tall he was, who his parents were, and why he shot it. What would happen? If he were to wait until all these questions have been answered, the man would die.” Life is so short. It must not be spent in endless speculation that does not bring us any closer to healing. – Thich Nhat Hanh:
I suspect the psychologists are correct in saying connection immediately after birth is important for emotional development. Of course , such connection does not ensure healthy emotional development nor does a lack of connection always end in unhealthy emotional development. (Life always presents opportunities to overcome.)
Knowing the why we behave the way we do is interesting and can be helpful in the process of letting go but it can also be a trap.
As Ellimac4u stated its ok to feel what you feel however be honest with yourself if this is were you want to stay. Nothing wrong with staying where you are. At 64 you have put in your time.
Your posts indicate that this is something you want to get over. You have done the work in understanding why, you know the what and the how of what arrow shot you. Now may be the time to let that go. Forgive the parents you did not know, forgive the parents that took you in for not being able to give you what you imagine only birth parents can, forgive yourself for not getting what you imagine you missed out on and let it go. Your past does not define you unless you want it to. If the obsession of the fear of rejection is not working for you, and knowing all the why’s have not helped you, its time to try a different path.
PeterParticipantHi Dia
There is a difference between supporting, helping and enabling.
Supporting someone is being fully committed to a person, whilst allowing them to do their part in terms of making any changes necessary. Supporting another empowers them, as it comes from connecting to another as an equal and understanding that they have the power within them to arise above whatever is challenging them.
Helping another is when we essentially go over the line and enter into the other person’s space in an attempt to bring them to the line. This approach occurs when we perceive another as a victim of their circumstances, and judge that they are incapable of coming to the line for themselves and hence feel that to ‘support’ them we need to do the work for them. The problem with helping another in this way is that, even if we do succeed in getting the person to come to the line it is essentially our energy doing it not theirs.
Enabling behavior shields people from experiencing the full impact and consequences of their behavior. Enabling is different from helping and supporting in that it allows the enabled person to be irresponsible.
One needs to be very mindful especially within family if one is crossing the line between supporting, helping, or enabling.
My observation has been that receiving ‘help’ from a family member more often then not ends in resentment so I would focus on support – creating the space for your brother to find his own way and yes that means allowing him to make mistakes. It is not your role as sister to parent.
The other issue you mention is your concern and possibility jealously of how your parents parent your brother. It is understandable that you view the difference is treatment as enabling you brother’s behavior and it not being fair. (Am I correct in assuming there is some cultural influences at play here?) This treatment may not be fair however that issue is between you and your parents and is not about you and your brother.
You are very fortunate to have a relationship with your brother where you can both talk about issues that concern you. My advice for what is worth is to be mindful about the ways you are communicating. Are you supporting, helping, or enabling. It is possible that the best support you can offer is being available to listen vice pushing an agenda.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantHi Denise
“Not all those who wander are lost” is a line for a poem by JR Tolken ? It’s a call to the hero’s journey.
Reading your post, the first thing that popped in my head was that you where heading into a new beginning and being called to a hero’s journey. Such journey often starts with uncertainty even depression… it is the authentic self crying out from the wilderness if you will. A good place to start such a journey is to wander a little.
I like the word wander as it suggests a “quite” way of looking for one’s next step. Wandering is still intentional but open to possibilities. As one wanders one is open to wonder entering in to the flow of a new beginning… vice struggling against the current… As you wander pay attention to what catches your eye and you will find your way.
Good luck Denise
All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes, a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king. -JR Tolken
PeterParticipantA road to nowhere can be a great place to start an journey of adventure. Not all who wander are lost…
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