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wouldn’t be a mercy if i just ended my life?

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  • #380610
    Murtaza
    Participant

    if you showed up back then.. when I was your age and we talked as we talk now, maybe .. no, not maybe, I know I wouldn’t feel alone anymore, it would have been wonderful.. you would have been enough, for me.

    I was wondering what it feels like, to have a person like you in real life, how my life could’ve change, how greatful i would be, then i remembered what i already have, a little sister, that loves me, and i love her too, i like when she gets mad over simple things, and she start to hit and scream, im the only one that let her do that, she is so comfortable with me, i always wanted someone to be kind with, to show him my true self, to just give and understand, the same way you do to me, i really don’t have any words, the don’t just understand me, you even like me, and i feel so warm, just knowing that there is a person like you, so perfect, i feel like words can describe how grateful i am, i have hope, that maybe i could meet people like you, and im welling to try from what i have, i just saw a guy outdoor alone, and went to talk to him, to give, not make him lonely, just the same way you do to me, without any price.

     

    I want to re-read your recent posts

    Please don’t, i wanted to edit/delete some of them, im already so tired of my thoughts, i want you to forget all the things i said back there, i should’ve thought more about it before i write, and for that im sorry, i promised that i will make effort, and the past few post i didn’t made much, i repeat myself a lot, A LOT, the same ideas over and over again, the same excuses, the same reged thinking, i don’t want you to see me like that, you already saw me at my worse, and i can’t believe you still like me somehow, you just too perfect i swaer lol, i will make a new post tomorrow after your reply, hopefully not something that involves any of this above, i really don’t know what, you already know me, i feel like i already said everything, so i would appreciate it if you guide me with this conversation

     

    our communication is different from last time

    I don’t know if i told you this, but when you didn’t want to replay anymore, i imagined you leaving, a lot, we were sitting on a bunch, some garden, and you leave, and i cry, beg you not to go, but you leave, some part of the fantasy i didn’t like, you leaveing, the void i would feel, not being seen again, not being heard, no attention, no sympathy, i fantasized this a lot, before i get bored of it, the part of you not liking me hurt the most, i remember just now, this feels like a past life, like it was never me, i happen to have a short memory of the past, i don’t remember much, but sometimes when i do, and i see myself now, i just realize how much i changed, for the better, how much did i grow, and i don’t even try to grow, it just happens,  i don’t even try anymore with anything, i just live

     

    One thing i wanted to ask you, and maybe go deep on it, is that i like sadness, no let me correct myself, i LOVE sadness, i miss it, the pure sadness everyday, the misery, the helplessness, you know i actually somehow get excited for those, i sometimes fantasize about just being so miserable, having something so bad to happen to me, and just be dipped in sadness and misery, this thing reminds me of my mom, she like being a victim, she is so sensitive that if we said something slightly bad, she would cry, i think she enjoy it, but she doesn’t know, this is bad i know, and i like not having this mood, the sadness, ever since i took antidepressants, though its the only feeling i had.

    #380616
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    I read a part of your recent post earlier, not focused much, and tired (still am), but focused enough to know/ deeply feel how special it is. I didn’t want to lose it (just in case the website disappears for some reason, something that didn’t happen since May 2015, when I first posted here). I will be back to your thread in about 13 hours. I hope you are sleeping peacefully at this time.

    anita

    #380650
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    “doesn’t mind fitting in and doing what everybody doing, say and think like everyone, that’s a norime”-  that is not you!

    “I refuse to let my human self control me, tell me what to do and what not to do, I rebel”- you refuse to let your human social needs turn you into a normie, but you can’t eliminate your social needs.

    “It sounds like you had such belief, when you were young, that you can be happy for a lifetime and good everyday”- yes, this belief was promoted by fairytales and movies.. it has been a human wish since the beginning, when the fictions of heaven and the like was invented.

    “What would it takes then? To be happy? Because the word happiness really means different things to different people, for me? I actually don’t like to say that word”- we have this in common. I go farther than you, perhaps: I hate the word!

    “I remember I once talked to a female, and she was a Muslim, she had some ideas different from what Quran said about women, I presented evidence to her, to help her see the truth..  no matter what I say or do, she won’t drop the belief (Quran is perfect)”- the social pressure to be a normie is much greater in a religious Muslim society than elsewhere- you are in a way, way more difficult situation being a rebel in Iraq than you would be in the U.S.(for now, as long as the U.S. is not an autocracy).

    “I like the fact that you not only agree with me, but maybe believe me? Or you are just talking to me in my own language?”- following your input, I re-evaluating what I stated before your input, and improved my understanding.

    “I really want help, a true help, to feel good, not with this mindset I can’t”- what kind of mindset would you like to have?

    I loved reading about how you let your little sister to just be who she is, to show you her true self. It just occurred to me, that a Normie can be created at an early age: when a child is severely punished for disobeying a strict parent’s rules, she/ he grows up to fear disobeying a strict society’s rules.

    “I  just saw a guy outdoor alone, and went to talk to him, to give, not make him lonely, just the same way you do to me, without any price”- it was a beautiful act of kindness, on your part.

    “you just too perfect”- I appreciate the emotion behind these words. I know that you know that I  know.. etc.,  that I am not perfect. Regarding being perfect, I don’t expect you to be perfect: to never or rarely repeat yourself, etc. (“I repeat myself a lot.. the same excuses..”).

    “One thing I wanted to ask you.. I LOVE sadness, I miss it, the pure sadness everyday, the misery, the helplessness, you know I actually somehow get excited.. this thing reminds me of my mom, she like being a victim, she is so sensitive that if we said something slightly bad, she would cry, I think she enjoy it”-

    -she cries in front of her children (her observers/ audience)=> her children show worry and caring=> she enjoys their worry and caring, she feels joy, a warm and good feeling inside.

    When you LOVE sadness, do you mean that you love imagining someone observing you (an audience of one or more), being a worried and caring audience, and you enjoy the worry/ care of your imagined audience?

    anita

    #380667
    Murtaza
    Participant

    you can’t eliminate your social needs

    Thats why im miserable

     

     I hate the word

    Lol

     

    the social pressure to be a normie is much greater in a religious Muslim society

    Especially for females, who doesn’t have much testosterone.

     

    When you LOVE sadness, do you mean that you love imagining someone observing you

    No, i just love the feeling, although i don’t like to cry (it appears that i can be i don’t, for some reason), when i ask myself why i like it, a couple of answers come to mind (it feels warm, its the only feeling i feel) but i really don’t think these are the reasons behind why i like it, its like music, you don’t know why you like what you like, you just do,

     

    I just like having a hot beverage, a sad song, and just be sad, not cry, but just sadness, sometimes i just remind myself of what i already lost, something like “i will never have love” quote a movie, or a song, and just let the feeling appear.

     

    her children show worry and caring

    Only we don’t care anymore, we know her victim mentally, her cry for attention, so we don’t give her that, so i guess she don’t enjoy it much anymore, but still she thinks “its because i have a good heart” and that she is pure, lol, i honestly know why we develop apathy (me and my sister), we barely even care anymore about anything, there seems never going back with apathy, at least mine

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Murtaza.
    #380669
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    Good to read from you, I was wondering about you. I am just about to leave for a couple of hours, but following reading your recent post, I am wondering about your mother’s victim mentality-  did she misuse your (and your sister’s) empathy, sort of sucked it out of you until all that remained in you was apathy?

    anita

    #380670
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    Before I am leaving, maybe the reason sadness feels good to you is because feeling something feels warm, and feeling nothing (being dissociated/ detached) isn’t really a feeling but a state of non-existence of sorts.

    Feeling sadness is a calm feeling, preferable to the agitating/ unpleasantly-exciting feelings of fear and anger. Sadness is preferable to all the feelings, I think- the calmest, least disturbing. Do you agree?

    anita

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by anita.
    #380672
    Murtaza
    Participant

     did she misuse your (and your sister’s) empathy, sort of sucked it out of you until all that remained in you was apathy?

    i really can’t say, although i began to see empathy as something that people use to control you, i remember a couple of times i did somethings because of empathy, some stupid things, ever since i left religion, i saw a lot of my action was controlled by religion/feelings, she might added fuel to the fire, i seem to have little to say when it comes to my mother, i really don’t care about her

     

    Feeling sadness is a calm feeling, preferable to the agitating/ unpleasantly-exciting feelings of fear and anger. Sadness is preferable to all the feelings, I think- the calmest, least disturbing. Do you agree?

    yes, since i really feel something, i sometimes chase feelings, chills,

    #380673
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    A person’s empathy can and does get misused. I just returned from a visit to the local taproom where I drank some red wine, it was pretty nice to talk, and to listen to people enjoying themselves. Good night, Murtaza!

    anita

    #380682
    Murtaza
    Participant

    i actually like taprooms, we don’t have this around here though, i also like wine, there is this movie (sideways), its about a depressed  guy who likes wine, its a really good movie, watching movies made me desire to be in a taproom and drink wine, its probably not that good, as i imagine it.

    #380684
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    I don’t know how good you imagine a taproom experience to be, but in my experience it has been very good, a lot of the time: I visit the taproom in the late afternoons/ evenings (it is not open after 8, and I hardly ever stay after 7 pm), sitting outside under the warm, pleasant sun, or under cover in winter,  around a propane fueled fire- these are the best. People are (not surprisingly) in their best moods under the influence of some alcohol (beer, ciders and red wine is all that’s served). People go to the taproom to enjoy themselves, so they are highly motivated to get along and be nice to each other.

    anita

    #380687
    Murtaza
    Participant

    sounds very cool, especially the people part, to talk to people, i would imagine seeing someone and having a deep conversation, just two people talking, a good agreement, sounds like heaven

     

    i just remembered something, one of the reason i like sadness, is because i like to feel sorry for myself, some sort of empathy to myself, since no one does empathies with me, no one to hear it, no audience, though i wouldn’t wanna an audience, since i wouldn’t be as comfortable as i am with myself, i wouldn’t have to worry if im troubling them or brothering them or im being too needy, i just be.

     

    these days i hardly think, my mind is empty, i guess its always like this, and i already said what i have, nothing else left tbh

    #380688
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    “no one does empathies with me, no one hear it”- I do, long-distance geographically, but short-distance  emotionally, at least at times during each day.

    It’s okay to not say anything when you have nothing more to say. Maybe later you will, and then you can say it. You can say it to me by posting again, any time you want to. I will be away from the computer anywhere from a few hours to about a day from now.

    anita

    #380738
    Murtaza
    Participant

    dear peter

     

    Sorry if I offended you

    you didn’t, i might sound like i was but i didn’t, i was simply stating facts.

     

     I don’t presume to understand you

    the thing is, you really can’t advice me when you don’t know me, imagine telling a homeless person to just work or just live life, it would be unkind don’t you think ?

     

    I wasn’t offering advice just a philosophical perspective on my view of Life

    no offence but its not yours, its called Taoism, and you just following what they say (this accusation is based soloy on your previous replay, its a bold accusation but im welling to risk it and be open to be wrong)

     

    The idea that Life is suffering is one of the 4 noble truths

    now you know why i accuse you of following Taoism, in my world, there is no truth, there is no “noble” truth, you know that truth is relative right? sure suffering is a part of life, im not disagreeing here, im just saying, that whatever you think is true, doesn’t apply to me, i don’t follow any philosophy or rules, i make them, if that means i live in misery, so be it

     

    I find your generalization of ‘norimes’ troubling and likely unhelpful. It seems to be dependent on your ability to ‘know’ what others are feeling and experiencing, something you often accuse others of.

    i never say someone is a norime without evidence, and your replay back there is enough evidence for me, sure i might be wrong, but again im welling to take the risk and accuse you of something you might be not, though your replay was a norime replay

     

    I was wrong about what I thought you were seeking and we aren’t using language in the same way

    this isn’t the only thing you wrong about :D, if my language use bothered you, then im sorry, i really didn’t mean anything then saying the truth, and by truth i mean my truth

     

    I wish you well. I suspect you won’t believe that

    why you suspect that ? your whole replay was a sign that you are a nice person, and i do think you are a nice person, though you know what it takes to be well for me ?

     

     

     

     

    #380759
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Murtaza

    I thank you for clarifying your response, however I still don’t feel dialog between us is going to be helpful.  You appear to be very literal with your definitions where as I see words as symbols, that point past themselves expanding ones experience.

    To be clear your language didn’t bother me it just left me little space to engage with.   Take your reaction to the words wonder and joy that gave you permission to assume you understood my experience and so labeled me a ‘norime’.  Perhaps if you knew of my time in the military, time of cancer, time of losing love ones you might reconsider the definition of ‘normal’. Where you responding to me you, or responding you your associations with the words joy and wonder? Presuming my use of the words meant you knew me, and knowing me, free to label me and set me aside.  The very thing you dislike others doing to you.

    I brought up the Buddhist noble truth of suffering because you your original question in this thread reminded me of it. (and that this is a Buddhist site if a little one)  You assume that because I brought it up I understand it and or must agree with it. Which I do and I don’t. It seems to depends on the perspective I take. From where I look at it, in general or personal, objective or subjective…  Life is complex and simple.

    I should have been clear, It was Schopenhauer who said ‘Life is something that should not be’ In context He struggled with the reality that Life feeds off life, and that he found no meaning to it, and little joy. (I wonder if he did not enjoy being sad, I wonder if that might also apply to me?) 

    Our life is dependent of consuming life until it is our turn to be consumed. Every breath we take fuels and brakes down our body.  The only advice I gave is that how we respond to that reality is important as it will very much color our experiences. Some will turn to religion, some to drink, some to meditation, some to despair, some to indifference, some to engagement, some to art, some to anger, some to love, some to hate, some to compassion, some to joy… Their may be a time for each, who am I to say which is the better for someone other then myself.

    I wondered if the “Salmon” after completing it journey enjoyed the struggle or resented it.  It is a wonder to me that I can imagine that that Salmon did. That does not mean I have been able to do the same with regards my own sufferings… I wonder…. when I found myself on a mountain, in a storm, injured, cold, miserable, frightened, that in that moment I found wonder at the power of the storm, the mountain, myself. A experience I would never choose to experience, yet cannot deny how alive I felt in the moment. I wonder if it was Joy? How is it that perspective can change a memory of a experience, and that change the present moment? Why is it the word wonder is related to the word wounded? Greater minds then mine have pondered such things.

    This is only dialog not advice.

    #380781
    Murtaza
    Participant

     You appear to be very literal with your definitions where as I see words as symbols

    symbols to what ? i like to be clear as possible, say what i really mean, without any symbols, i dislike symbols, because really if you want to say something, why not just say it?

     

    Take your reaction to the words wonder and joy

    how do you define them then? from  your context i understood this “look at life from another perspective, the problem is with your perspective” its basically blaming the victim, imagine telling a homeless to look at life from another perspective, to see the wonder he isn’t seeing “its his fault for not doing so”

     

    that gave you permission to assume you understood my experience and so labeled me a ‘norime

    i didn’t say anything about your experience or life, your replay was a norime replay, a none norime person wouldn’t say what you said, and i think you don’t know the exact definition of norime, so let me clear you in, a norime is a person who have the same values, the same beliefs, the same type of thinking (based on your replay) as the normal people, it doesn’t matter what happened in your past life, how werid it was, how hard it was, if you came with the same beliefs and type of thinking, you are a norime, in other words, a none norime person knows that some people doesn’t get to chose their answer to life (No or Yes), doesn’t get to be other then homeless person, a homeless person isn’t just a “perspective”, he has the desire of homeless person, the beliefs or homeless person, the same type of thinking as a homeless person, now imagine you being that, and i came to you, with some philosophy i read and applied on my own life, thinking it must work for everyone, and if someone doesn’t do that then it his fault, and i tell you, to look at your life in wonder, how unkind and unfair that will be, imagine telling a blind man to just look at the bright side, you don’t get to say that, you don’t know his struggles, you don’t understand it, you only talk from your own perspective and pov, something which you didn’t chose, you just had enough details in your life to get to this point

     

    Perhaps if you knew of my time in the military, time of cancer, time of losing love ones you might reconsider the definition of ‘normal’.

    no i won’t, this is exactly what i mean by a norime, imagine how much people have the same life and type of thinking of you ? a lot huh?  the same external problems

     

    Presuming my use of the words meant you knew me, and knowing me, free to label me and set me aside

    i don’t know you, i only know the type of replay i get, a norime replay, you showed no evidence of none norime behavior, so why bother? with a person that will never understand me,  maybe will after a hard and solid argument, but if you were really a norime you won’t, and there is a high chance you are one, you have to understand that i did this labeling thing after a lot of energy and time wasting, that i avoid this type of people for a reason, and im welling to risk it and label one without much evidence to the other option, one evidence would be you agreeing that some people just don’t get to enjoy life, and its not their fault, that some people are doomed, that some people say NO to life, if you can agree with this, we can have a basic understanding

     

    The very thing you dislike others doing to you

    i really don’t care what people label me, i said i dislike labels from myself, not from others, i know what others labels me “loser” “pathetic” etc, i only care if it was true or not, so go ahead, label me as you want, i only ask for the truth, no matter how ugly it really is, im a loser ? fine, i will be miserable for the rest of my life? fine, its my fault ? NO that’s not true

     

    i will answer the rest of your post separately.

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