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PeterParticipant
You certainly have had a hard year. I can’t address the issues you have experienced however would like to say something about the concept of hope.
If I mourn my hope that all will improve due to simple luck, will this allow me to move on and redefine my own goals and aspirations?
I think it depends on how you understand and exercise this thing we call hope.
Though some will disagree with me I believe that Hope is a skill. Most people I have observed assume they “know” what concepts such as hope, forgiveness, love… without ever questioning their expectations, of those ideals, and so hope unskillfully.
We can hope with eyes closed (Passive) or with eyes open (Active). The danger with passive hope is that is often not hope but wishful or magical thinking. Active hope is more intentional even when the hope is for something that is beyond our control.
Hope with eyes open is hope that is not attached to the outcome of what’s hoped but open to a something not yet visible. It is a kind of hope that is a doing by not doing. You might hope for your parent’s well-being to improve and work towards that goal, acknowledging as it says in the serenity prayer, changing what you can and accepting what you can’t, unattached to how that well-being might look. In this way, you create space for what is hoped to emerge in ways you might not have thought of.
There is a difference between fantasy, a dream, a goal, and an intention, and before we hope it might be helpful to become conscious of what our hope is pointed to. Is the hope pointed to a fantasy, a dream, a goal or an intention? Once that is identified we might better know what we are really hoping for and if its worth holding on to.
For example, I might hope to win the lottery, but never buy a ticket. Such hope would be hope with eyes shut and unskillful. When I examine that hope I see its a fantasy hoping that luck will lead to Financial Security. The reality I’m really hoping for financial security. If I let go of the hope to win the lotto and instead hope for financial security, working towards that goal, while remaining unattached to how that Financial security must look like and be experienced I suspect I might discover that perhaps such security might not have anything to do with money at all.
We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more from imagination than from reality. -Seneca
“the most painful state of being is remembering a future, particularly the one you’ll never have.” – Kierkegaard
PeterParticipantPerhaps its in how you define purpose. I think everything has a inherent purpose for example a seed purpose is to become a flower, a tree, a weed… That we are capable of recognizing or acknowledging purpose within ourselves and others is different question.
Of course when most people talk about purpose they are usually thinking of something grand and easily recognizable and maybe even applauded by others (so we “know” it counts).
PeterParticipantI think in dealing with anger we need to accept it as a valid emotion and experience. There is a time for all things.
You were hurt, it sucks, and its appropriate to feel some anger over what happened. The question then becomes what do you do with those feelings.
Acting out of anger would more likely to be a reaction to the experience then a response to it. And in reaction there is always a danger in becoming stuck in in anger where we become a victim to all that befalls us.
All emotions serve a purpose and anger contains the energy within it to address the issue to which the anger points to. That energy however can also be turned against ourselves and deplete us so we need to make our anger as conscious as possible and use the energy wisely.
PeterParticipantIn Buddhism, I think the teaching might be to experience your life consciously, as it is with intention but without being attached to results, as in demanding that the result have certain outcome. One remains engaged in life while detached from results.
PeterParticipantWould the earth be better off with out humans?
Yes, environmentally certainly, but it would not be conscious as being so.
Then again, the sun could explode and destroy the earth… and one wonders if in that moment the earth would have felt it had purpose and that perhaps without it the universe might not be better off? Where would such wondering end?
I feel that the answer to the question lies in the question of consciousness which we know surprisingly little. Most spiritual writings, when the worlds are aloud to speak, suggest that Life/Universe/God/Love longs to become conscious of itself. That there is a kind of gravitational push towards a collective unconsciousness becoming a collective consciousness. Even within the study of quantum theory there is a hint that the mind participates in the creation of the material world if more often then not unconsciously. Such a realization would demand we become more conscious individuals. (which could be our purpose/meaning we give to life)
When one starts heading down that path of reasoning for an answer one sees that all experience are valid regardless of our judgments as they push us into consciousness. It is my conjecture that we become conscious when confronted with the problem of opposites. We do not become aware of cold until we have also experienced warmth.
If, in my opinion, the question of meaning is a question of consciousness we bring to life, then the next step is learning how to say Yes to Life as it is, all the good and the bad, all the joy all the pain, and know it to be Love.
The trick is being able to say Yes to Life as it is and still stand for one truths in the moment one knows them as truths. Fulfilling our destiny as we exercise our free will.
In such a place of being the question of if the earth would be better off without humans is no longer asked.
PeterParticipantWow you wrote my story. I am also a 54-year-old bachelor, living modestly, with aging parents and little social life.
I am concerned as I’m not sure how I will get on if I continue to be unable to envision something changing. My work keeps me preoccupied, killing time, which I am grateful for but my weekends can be hell. I am not depressed though I am sad. Its becoming more and more difficult to connect to others and a part of me wonders if I might be less sad if I just accept life as it is as based on my actions I must want to be alone.
I have no answers Dustin but I’m begging to think there are a lot of us out there in the same position.
PeterParticipantThere are some who might view the story of Cinderella as being about gender roles. However as though symbolic language we see that the story might be about a time a cinders, grief, depression and a guide as to how to work through such times.
Like a dream each of the characters within the story represents a attribute of the dreamer/person hearing the story.
The story starts with a a persons who’s psych – feeling and being state – is in a time of ashes. The inner mother attribute in stead of being nurturing has become the ‘step mother’ – negative self talk, your not good enough, pretty enough, strong enough, lovable… The sisters representing the creative impulses, things ones liked to do have turned against you, no longer enjoyable and unable to pull the psych out of this time sadness. Alas the inner father – ability to set and defend ones boundaries – is missing and there are no brothers. It is a dark night of the soul
Here the story shows its wisdom. When we first find ourselves in a time of ashes the feeling/being aspects of the psych is not equipped to fight or defend itself. The advice here is for the psych to focus is on daily tasks of life. Go to work, clean the house… In symbolic language the house is often a symbol of the self. To work through the time of ashes we must take care of ourselves, our basic needs. We create in small ways a environment where healing can take place.
Cinderella does not role up in a ball, hide in a corner or shake her first of the unfairness of all. The focus is on the tasks of ones daily routine but with eyes open. The story insures that a numinous moment will come when something happens that points to some other possibility, a ball (wholeness). A possibility where her rags are turned to a ball gown. Cloths often symbolize the ideals in which we dress are selves in. Cinderella (feeling/being) gets a glimpse of seeing herself different. This is not something Cinderella (feeling/being) forces to happen but allows to happen. She is going with the flow and doing so gets the help of a deeper nurturing archetype of the God Mother.
Of course the negative self talk will be right there telling you you can’t go, your not good enough, lovable… and here Cinderella does not confront the negativity but sneaks off with the help of the God mother and other smaller perhaps over looked attributes of the psych that ones hasn’t paid much attention to before.
The story has a warning, at midnight (time of transition) she must return home. We are not meant to stay in these time numinous moment. I think the danger is getting stuck always looking for that next numinous moment. The seeker who is always seeking the next numinous moment but never becoming the finder. Never taking what one learns and turning it into action/wisdom.
This moment awakens the Prince, the psych inner warrior. The story changes from one of passively taking care of daily needs to action, a search, and working to reconnect to ones feeling and being nature.
The shoe does not fit the step sisters, no mater how you might try to make them fit. The ways of coping in the past and that might have fed ones creativity in the past may not be the way out. This is a search that will lead to a new way of seeing things and finding the right fit. This is a finding and connection to ones authentic self.
In the end the stories promises that if one goes though these trials there will come a time when ones doing and thinking marries up with ones feeling and being becoming the King and Queen of the psysh. Once that connection is made new adventure await. Children attributes of the psych you have yet to discover will be born and require to be nurtured but that is another story.
So yes you are on the right track. 🙂
PeterParticipantWell said PeaceHawk, thanks for the reminder
PeterParticipantThanks for sharing your hurt
PeterParticipantFor someone prone to depression the questions of purposes and meaning can become self defeating.
Such questions have been asked since the birth of consciousness… why am ‘I’ here, naked, shame… how can I endure, there must be meaning.
The answer to such questions I think require skill. I mean by this knowing when to ask the question and seek its answers.
For myself I think Joseph Campbell answered the question that I relate to the most. “Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.”
It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer… Life does not give you meaning, you give meaning to Life.
In such light, even my depression is purposeful and meaningful and brings meaning to Life. I do not fully understand it, yet I… ‘taste’ that it is true, and enough, and so I no longer ask the questions.
As for being Happy. The idea of happiness and the experience of being happy can become so confusing and wrapped up in each other. Especially when you read something like the following:
“If you decide that you’re going to be happy from now on for the rest of your life, you will not only be happy, you will become enlightened. Unconditional happiness is the highest technique there is. This is truly a spiritual path, and it as direct and sure a path to Awakening as could possibly exist.”
― Michael A. Singer
Right, sounds so easy, if I just decide to be happy I will be happy? How does one decide such a think… and what is this Happy that this Michael speaks of? The feeling, an experience, and idea…. I think for Michael Happiness was getting to a place where he could give an unconditional Yes to all of life’s experience, those we experience as good and those we experience as bad. Happiness is getting to experience Life as it is and so give life meaning.
I would change the quote to read:
“If you can give an unconditional Yes to life’s experiences from now on for the rest of your life, you will not only be happy, you will become enlightened. Unconditional Yes is the highest technique there is. This is truly a spiritual path, and it as direct and sure a path to Awakening as could possibly exist.”
Unconditional Yes/Unconditional Happiness… I don’t know I’m still working it out, yet I know there is a truth to that statement. I can taste it 🙂
You might find the following Ted talk interesting: He does not say it but I think he found a way to give a unconditional Yes to his experience of depression and doing so found if not happiness, meaning, and in finding meaning… Happiness… Not a feeling, not a moment in time, but a happiness in being?
“The opposite of depression is not happiness, but vitality, and it was vitality that seemed to seep away from me in that moment.”
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Peter.
PeterParticipant“To attain true inner freedom, you must be able to objectively watch your problems instead of being lost in them… Once you’ve made the commitment to free yourself of the scared person inside, you will notice that there is a clear decision point at which your growth takes place.” ― Michael A. Singer, The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself
Best wishes Colby, very happy for you
PeterParticipantI wonder if Balance is not the freedom from fear or desire but the ability to hold the tension of freedom and desire without attachment, And so we dance.
Dance the art of falling and catching ourselves gracefully. Dancing from the still point
“At the still point of the turning world. Neither flesh nor fleshless;
Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,
But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity,
Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards,
Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point,
There would be no dance, and there is only the dance.” TS EliotPeterParticipantBasically what I was saying was that when it comes to measuring experiences most people suck. A solution is to stop measuring. That won’t change what happened but it can change the attachment we have to the memory of what happened (it is the memory that we are left to deal with and what we are usually measuring which perpetuates the feelings or you might say the chemical stimulus that creates those feeling.)
What I think your saying is that the feelings we have about our experiences are the result of chemical interactions. Without the ability to produce the chemicals needed to experience joy or happiness one can only experience sadness… And in your view the only thing that can give value to ones life are the “feel-good neurotransmitters/chemicals in the brain”
Are you saying that people who suffer have no value or just can not experience value? And that only positive experience of value creates consciousness?
That is quite a leap and perhaps a misunderstanding of the words value, meaning, and quality and maybe unskillful measuring? Have you read Zen And the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. the book as a lot to say about value, quality and how we measure it.
Perhaps we are at the mercy of the chemicals of the brain – as above so below/fate. Perhaps the stories we tell ourselves about our experiences can influence the chemicals of the brain – as below so above/choice. What came first the negative thoughts about a experience or the chemical reactions? Did the experience influenza the chemicals which influence the thoughts or do thoughts influence the chemicals…(and the experience) both? is their a tipping point?
As to the question of what gives a life experience value… the stories we like the most are the ones where a negative experience leads to a transformation of becoming.
I would even argue that consciousness is a result of the tension we experience when confronted with the problem of opposites.
(as most cultures beginning stories indicate – for example the tension of having knowledge of good and evil but not the discernment of knowing what is good or evil. the tension creating consciousness and with that a exit from the “bliss” of remaining unconscious. Or if you don’t like religious references, a baby takes a crap and it feels good, then its care taker makes a face of disgust when cleaning it up. What was experienced as good (objective as in the experience happened and felt like in the moment ) is, as influenced from above, also experienced as something else (subjective what we think and feel about the experience now memory as something else)… maybe even bad. Was it good or was it bad?)
I’m sorry your life so far has been crap. Nothing I could say can change that. Still you have come to a Buddhist forum and perhaps a part of you is looking for some other answers… or questions?
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantYou might enjoy the User Illusion by Tor Nørretranders
The ego starts off thinking that it is conscious of everything and conscious of everything in charge. Yet consciousness is incredibly limited, 8 to 16 bits per second, and our experience of it tends to be linear – cause and effect.
In comparison, the unconscious is capable of taking in millions of bits of information a second. Just think about how my information is required for your body to function. If you had to be conscious of it all (and control it) you would die.
All this implies that we know more then we know, see more then we see, hear more then we hear, taste more then we taste, smell more then we smell. We just aren’t conscious of it, so more often then not the ego, attachment to fear and desire, fills in the gaps and creates illusion. (the mind literally fills in the gap of what it expects to see and hear.)
Judgments do play a role in our lives and are not bad or good. This experience hurt me, this experience I liked, this one I didn’t. Judgments as information and when skilled without attachment. But then we tend to make judgments about people in involved in such experience. This person is bad, this one ugly, I’m bad, I’m ugly. Judgments influenced by physiological factors most of which are unconscious. The experience of the judgment, as information, opening the door to becoming more conscious. Where as the experience of judgment with attachment to desire, fear and threat to self, becomes reactionary and to often remains unconscious.
Here is a riddle for you: As above so below… as below so above
PeterParticipantI can relate to your story
In dream analyses and symbolic language; the people, animals and objects we meet in our dreams represent attributes, feelings, thinking, dreams… of the dreamer. The dreams a likely not about reconnecting to you X but to yourself in some way.
It seems the unconscious preferred way to communicate to the conscious is through the symbolic language of images.
In your dream your X would likely represent qualities that you might have associated with him as having as well as the hopes and dreams you may have had about yourself when you were together but that now you may be disconnected from.
When we are with someone we care about and who cares about us we feel empowered, we are empowered. We tend to imagine that we can become the best version of ourselves.
After a breakup we often lose that imagined future or ourselves or become disconnected from it. At the same time our understanding of Love and relationship is challenged. Your dreams could be an indication of unfinished work in dealing with that loss.
In dream interpretation asking the right questions can help.
What qualities would you associate with you X?
Which qualities do you also have and which ones do you think you don’t have?
Of the qualities that you don’t think you have which ones would you like to develop?
Do the same type of questioning with your thinking and feelings with regards to the idea of Love and Relationship that you may have had during your relationship with your X.
How did you see your future self while in that relationship?
Has an attribute, dream, hope that you may have had been lost? Were you too innocent? Did you become disillusion in anyway? Did you lose a creative spark?
In such an interpretation the dream would not be about reconnecting to your X, or be about your X at all.
Instead it is likely that its about reconnecting or making conscious something you have forgotten about your self, perhaps a better way to love yourself, forgive yourself….
My hunch is that once you do the dream work, the dreams will stop and you will have learned something about yourself that will make your current relationships even stronger.
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