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TeeParticipantHey Beni,
Jap, I felt disconnected. I have day’s or times where I retreat into myself and I struggle to reach out. It feels like a stone on my heart, it’s harder to give love and share/show myself and also I got and still am sick :-/
That’s okay if you don’t respond when you don’t feel like it. No pressure. I am sorry you got sick – is it something like the flu?
I am again worse with regard to my back – it started hurting for apparent reason, without any wrong move, so I am perplexed. Not really panicking like last year, but it’s not a good feeling to go through it again, because I thought I’ve reached a certain state, where I was more resilient and more stable. But apparently not :\
Are you saying that you wanna reach this goal cause it expresses values you want to see in the world?
Well, it would be a positive contribution for the world, on a small scale of course, within my sphere of influence.
I think that’s why it’s helpful to differentiate needs from the strategies to meet the need. I wanna pray for the need.
You want to pray to know what you need to do? Like, you don’t know what your contribution (to the world) should be, and you want to pray for clarity on that? Sorry if I misunderstood you…
I wanted to reply here and my mind was like now, now, now you have to do it. It can be painful to not do things. I feel helpless. It’s hard for me to let people wait.
Ah, it sounds like you believe people have expectations on you, they want you to do something, and you feel pressured by it, and you don’t like it. (BTW there are no expectations from my side, so as far as I am concerned, please don’t feel pressured to reply).
Anyhow I figured if I really wanna do it I will do it. I’ll do it without effort but I have to wait for it. Often I can’t do it any other way it’s just too painful.
Okay, so you feel comfortable doing things at your own pace, in your own time, when you feel like it, not when someone tells you to do it, right? Is it related to your family and the expectations they have from you? Or other people’s expectations as well?
BTW thanks for the lyrics. I see the entire booklet is called “Mantras for Miracles” – that’s nice, I’ll check it out.
March 26, 2024 at 3:59 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #430175TeeParticipantAnd Paradoxy,
Thank you for kind words, I appreciate it.
You are very welcome, I truly meant what I said.
March 26, 2024 at 3:01 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #430173TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
I am well aware that all my thoughts are wrong, but it is just how I feel, the thoughts I have, the things I wonder. I hope you understand.
I do understand. I understand what a childhood with emotionally abusive or neglectful parents can do to us. That we end up feeling hollow, because we believe that no one cares, that we don’t matter to anybody, and that our existence is futile. Or even worse, that our existence causes pain to others, like you have learned to believe.
What I notice is that you seek excuses not only for your girlfriend, but also for your parents too. You would rather blame your school friend who informed her parents about your suicide attempt, than your parents who reacted in an absolutely uncaring way, berating you that you caused them humiliation, instead of stopping to ask themselves what is bothering you.
But that’s how our child’s mind works: the child always blames themselves, not the parents, because that’s a survival mechanism. The child needs to believe that if only he/she behaved better, the parent would finally show them love, or be proud of them. This happens even with children who are severely abused – the child never blames their parents.
So when you talk about your parents like that, claiming that “their influence is actually minor“, you are in your child’s mind. And when you speak of yourself as a failure and a nobody, you are in your child’s mind too.
If we had good, loving and caring parents, the bullying we’ve experienced from other kids wouldn’t have such a great impact on us. If your parents “woke up” after your suicide attempt and sought to understand you – to listen to you – you wouldn’t have felt even worse about yourself, and even more solidified in your belief that you are a burden and that you cause pain to others. The deacon’s son’s bullying wouldn’t have had such an effect on you, because you would have felt supported and consoled by your parents, rather than attacked.
Your parents were indeed the key factor in the formation of your personality, and in your ability to take the hits (the bullying, the cruelty) of your peers. Since you didn’t have a soft spot to fall on – a safe haven in your own home – the bullying felt much worse and cut much deeper than if you had caring and supportive parents.
So please consider that there are two parts in you: one is the adult part, who sees things more clearly and realizes the negative effect of your parents (as well as the negative effect of your girlfriend on you). And there is the child part, who wants to protect both your parents and your girlfriend, blaming yourself rather than them for your emotional suffering.
Here are some of the examples of your adult mind, talking about your parents:
They are too narrow minded to accept change in life style. To accept a different method to handling situations. They have never listened to me. Always discouraging me from what I wanted to do. Even this med career was their fault. I never wanted this. I wanted to do music or computers.
They never thought of encouraging the things that I liked, whether it be music or coding or etc. They never let me have a childhood, always forcing me to “act like an adult” and etc. … The constant pressure of needing high scores and everything in order to get into a college to pursue a degree in something I hated drove me to where I am as well.
The main difference between my sister and I is that she received too much freedom and I received too less freedom. … And that freedom, I will never get, as even now I am controlled by my parents’ desires, and when I try to go against them, they install me with the fear of “what if I am wrong”.
The career path to become a doctor gurantees that I will be successful in life especially since I can handle the work load to a degree, but will I be happy doing this? Probably not. Though I like helping people, I don’t think med is the best way for me to help people.
There were moments like guilt-tripping and other similar circumstances where they would manipulate me into doing what they want without complaining (my father is a pro at psychology, and he is so rigid that everyone, whether it be his own boss, his friends, or our own relatives, knows that he should not be messed with because he always speaks the truth and can put anyone in their place by using pure logic).
Everything that my father taught me was logically correct, but I was wise enough to know that there are exceptions to the wisdom he passed to me. I did not let his opinion about things completely blind me,
Here is your adult mind, speaking about how hurt you were by your girlfriend:
Yes, I already considered this and it is obvious that she was suffering from the trauma. But now that trauma is also mine. How can I help to heal her when her own actions created my own trauma? How can I help remove the splinter in her eye when I have a log in my own, which she technically put? But despite that, I put aside my own suffering, and tried to help her as much as I could. For the last 3 months, I shut down my own pain and loved her as much as I could, but the severity of the issue was eating me from the inside.
The things that I hate about her are the things that torment me. I have not slept properly in the last 3 months. I have been going through a depressed phase of just wanting the pain to end, whether it be through death or amnesia or something… The relationship with B has ruined me for the worst.
You also realized that you are actually looking for excuses to take her back. This realization came from your adult mind:
I AM THE ONE WHO IS STILL IN LOVE WITH HER DESPITE EVERYTHING THAT SHE HAS DONE. I AM HERE RANTING ALL THIS BECAUSE I AM SEARCHING FOR AN EXCUSE, A LOGICAL REASON MY MIND CAN ACCEPT, TO FORGIVE HER AND TAKE HER BACK.
In your writings, you are switching constantly between your adult self, who is aware of the severity of the pain she (and your parents) inflicted upon you. But then you quickly switch to your child self, who is seeking excuses and wants to take her back.
When you are in your child self, you are neglecting your own pain (I put aside my own suffering), just like your parents neglected your pain.
So in fact, you are doing to yourself what your parents did to you: disregard your pain, your emotions, your feelings. You tell yourself that you are causing others pain, when in fact they (your parents, your girlfriend) are causing pain to you.
Can you see this mechanism?
March 25, 2024 at 3:37 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #429026TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy/Godwin,
Thank you for sharing more of your story, starting from your childhood onward. Like Anita, my heart breaks to read how negatively you think about yourself, and in reality you are such a bright guy and there is so much light in you. So much self-awareness, insight, and so much empathy and understanding for your parents. And for everybody else you believe you’ve hurt… I wish you had even a fraction of that empathy and understanding for yourself, dear Paradoxy.
My parents have influenced the core belief that I am the source of pain for others, but they are not the main influencer. They have behaved in ways that made me feel like a burden to them but that is just a starting point. The real influence came from my own peers.
What you call the starting point (your parent’s influence) is like the foundations of a house: they are laid down first (in the first 7 or so years of our life) and everything else depends on them. If there is something wrong with the foundations – with our upbringing in our formative years – the whole house will be skewed.
Through the relationship with our parents, we learn how to relate to ourselves (whether we are good, bad, lovable, worthy). If our parents sent us a message that we are a burden, we will indeed start feeling like a burden. And that belief will be poured into the foundations of our personality. And we will believe: “I am a burden.”
Everything that happens to us later in our youth and beyond, we will observe through that lens, the lens of being a burden. And so every negative experience we have will confirm that core belief: I am a burden.
This is what happened to you too, Paradoxy. After your first crush became public, you felt “I felt like I humiliated my crush and that I was a burden to her.” Even though it was you who was made fun of, not her.
This event led you to try to take your own life, and after it (thankfully) didn’t succeed, your parents, instead of getting worried about you, got mad at you for “humiliating” them:
My parents felt humiliated by that experience and was very angry with me, making me feel more of a burden.
This act was your cry for help, but for them, it was humiliation. They thought about themselves, although as responsible parents, they should have thought about you and your well-being. Your school friend actually had more compassion for you than your parents, because she was worried about you and so she told her parents. And her parents told the church, and the church told your parents. That’s how it should be, because whenever a suicidal behavior is noticed in a child, authorities need to react. So everybody reacted responsibly, except your parents, who instead of trying to help you, further traumatized you and punished you.
As a result, you felt even more as a burden. When in fact, they weren’t fulfilling their parental duties as they should have. They lacked empathy and compassion for you.
In the next episode, your school friend’s brother was indeed cruel to you:
Then several months later, her brother pointed out to me what a loser I was and how nobody cared about me. And I realized he was right.
Children can sometimes be very cruel. So this boy said something offensive, and it fell on fertile ground. It only confirmed your existing belief (which you got from your parents) – that you are a burden.
I spend my recess times walking around class looking for a friend to hang out with but there was never any who wanted me. This further drived me down the depressive spiral as I felt abandoned by everyone. Not to mention the constant insults I kept getting from my peers. There was no actual bullying, just some hurtful things that I felt were true and I did not have a smart mouth to talk back to the things they said.
So the same mechanism: your peers were insulting you, and you felt they were right, because you felt bad about yourself. Those insults fell on fertile ground. And they only strengthen the core belief: that you are a burden.
The next experience, with a class assignment, lead you to the same conclusion:
I had to get out of the class before anyone saw my tears cause I knew it would just be more humiliation for me and no one cared anyway but unfortunately, one guy and some family friend students saw me crying and asked what happened but I kept everything to myself, crying in silence for being a burden to others.
Your conclusion was that you cause humiliation to others (like you do to your parents), and that you are a burden to others (like you are to your parents).
And so on, and so on. Each new experience solidified this core belief. The whole “house” was built on it. Whereas it is not true, it is just your (i.e. your parents’) perception of reality.
I would like to address the other points, related to your girlfriend, in a separate post, probably tomorrow. I hope at least some of what I’ve written here resonates with you and you see some truth in it…
TeeParticipantHey Beni,
I’ve just checked the link you sent and I liked the little recital-song… so I’ve written down the words. I haven’t understood 100% of the lyrics, but here it is:
It’s a real skill to be able to look at every problem
as a miracle we’ve been asking for,
guiding us exactly where we need to be,
initiating us,
asking us to evolve and come deeper and deeper
into knowing that we are one with God
We are never alone, we are never at riskMy pathway meets (?) every day
I see so many problems
but my mind’s the only one
that’s got themIf I change how I see my way
All my problems will be gone today
Cause a miracle is hiding in every dark corner
And there’s a divine light that shines the dark away
And if I wish to see that light with my own eyes,
Well the highest in me shows me how (?)All this dark is just in my mind – illusion
Cause every problem already got a solution
Everything is already okay
Life’s a miracle in every way
There’s a divine light that shines the dark away
I just got to shine bright to see the light…TeeParticipantDear Beni,
good to hear from you!
I reply late, sometimes I get in to this mode where I do not reach out to people. I replied already two weeks ago and I didn’t like where ther reply came from and it took till now as it’s changing again.
You mean you wrote a reply 2 weeks ago, but never posted it? Because you felt some resentment or discomfort? You’re welcome to tell me more, if you’d like to…
Maybe you feel comfortable to reply this question: ‘What do you imagine happens when you meet your career goal and how do you know you met it?’
Hmm, I’ll have a sense of accomplishment of something that is important to me. You know the Maslow hierarchy of needs? I feel accomplishing this goal would meet my need for self-realization. Maybe I am wrong, but this is how I feel 🙂
And I’ll know that I’ve met it, because there are some concrete milestones I’d like to achieve…
I feel your’re right it feels different. Two weeks a go I thought it’s the same. It feels rather like speaking to a person and praying doesn’t feel like talking to anyone or thing
Oh interesting… so praying for you feels like not talking to anyone, whereas speaking to your inner child feels like talking to someone?
I forgot to pray lately, I think when I come out of the energy that there needs to be change, that there is something wrong or missing rather than I whish this and this happens and not beeing attached to the outcome it feels natural. There’s much patience endurance involved and sometimes I doubt it.
You mean that when you pray for something, you feel you’re attached to the outcome? And it gives you a feeling that something is wrong or missing in how things are right now? And when you let go of that attachment, when you just patiently wait and trust that it will happen, then it does happen eventually?
Makes sense how can we reach a goal when wo do not move in it’s direction taking the steps, we need to be very clear what our goals are and why we need it.
Yeah, for me it’s important to know why I am doing something, i.e. it’s important to me that it is aligned with my true self and my true desires (and not someone else’s wishes, or something that I feel forced to do.)
This kinda triggers me cause I struggle to take action mucho. I do not know how so I patiently wait and things work out too and I take action too it is just is so slow.
Let me see if I understood you correctly: so your experience is that when you patiently wait, things work out by themselves? And so you’re not motivated to take action?
Can you give me an example (if you feel comfortable) of a situation where things just worked out by themselves, without you needing to take any action?
TeeParticipantHey SereneWolf,
happy to hear from you, and that you’re actually doing good!
How you been doing? Feeling better?
Ahh, right now my back pain has flared up again for no apparent reason, so I am not happy about it and kind of confused. My worry and anxiety want to creep in, but I am managing to keep them at bay. It’s like I see the emotion coming, like wanting to breaking down and cry, but I don’t let it take over. I stop myself from going down that path again… So we’ll see. It’s challenging, but I don’t feel totally hopeless and depressed, like last year, for example.
I’ve been busy with onboarding process and meetings and I’m actually quite more confident now than before. Team seems really supportive, Even my manager.
Sounds great! I am happy that you feel more confident, and that you feel the team and the manager are supportive. Fantastic!
I’ve watched the video of “How to stop comparing yourself with others” as you suggested and it’s definitely insightful. I was mainly worried about the competition and that’s why I had scarcity mindset, Maybe still a little.
I’ve also understood that my goal is not to being better than everyone and somewhere my subconscious does believed that.Yeah, because you’ve been hearing all your childhood (and beyond) “look at him, why can’t you do better”. And you were only awarded for being the best in class – anything else was “not good enough”. So yeah, that’s the programming you grew up with. No wonder it led you to comparing yourself to others, wanting to compete, always feeling worse than others.
But because of this video and like you also told me in a recent post I am in touch with myself so I’m not comparing myself to others like I did before…
I am happy this is gradually changing and you don’t feel the urge to compare yourself to others that much. Sure, it will take time to eradicate it completely, but the need, the compulsion, is not so strong any more, which is a great development…
I also wanted to share a thing that I read on my feed few days ago and it was according to this thread title, Like why I feel like time is passing too fast and one of the reason is even though I was longing for novelty there was no novelty. But now there is. and another thing is being in the present moment I was constantly anxious/worried about the future if I’d be able to achieve my goals and that constant anxiety of what if I fail.
It’s good to hear that you can stay in the present moment more, without the need to project into the future what you should achieve, and then immediately worrying that you’ll fail. That was really exhausting!
I am happy you can stay in the present moment more, and appreciate what you’ve achieved so far. You may want to give yourself an imaginary (or real 🙂 ) pat on the back, because you have achieved a lot. Good that you are slowly recognizing it:
I was thinking like how much I’m underestimating myself most of the time because of (maybe low self esteem). In my life I can count lot of successes from all these years
I’m strong enough I faced lot of things
Yes, absolutely! Starting from facing the lion at the country road 🙂 to being locked down in a container at an industrial complex, to living on your own since 16 years old, to finishing your degree and working in parallel, to being the youngest manager at your previous workplace, to many other successes… So yes, SereneWolf, you are incredibly resilient, and resourceful, I’d say!
In my life I can count lot of successes from all these years but yet what I’m remembering? not those. I’m remembering what things I did wrong.
Because that’s what your father put the emphasis on: on your failures, not your successes. He took your successes for granted, but he was ranting and fuming about your mistakes, about what you did wrong.
and why it is like that we don’t feel joy longer for our successes but we feel pain for even smaller failure for extended periods?
Because of the same reason as above: because we were not praised for our achievements, but were punished for even the smallest mistake. And that hurt a lot…
TeeParticipantDear Andromeda,
I am sorry for losing your beloved nephew, and now feeling hopeless, exhausted and like a burden. I’d like to offer a different perspective, hoping that it might help a little.
In your previous thread, you said about your nephew that he was a beacon of light:
He was special, very popular, funny, intelligent, spiritual, quirky, his friends and family described him as a beacon of light.
He was very popular in his home town and also when he moved away.
On Sunday evening, all his friends held a vigil at a special place he used to visit, which was high up on a mound overlooking the city. … There was an area carpeted with candles and flowers, surrounded by so many people, so much love.
He was loved and appreciated by his family and friends, surrounded by so much love, and radiating much love too… but he didn’t believe that, he felt alone and abandoned. At some point something shifted in him and he stopped replying to your messages. He alienated himself. When he lost a place to stay, he didn’t take up your offer to help him with accommodation. He told your other sister (his aunt) that “he didn’t want to come back home, said he would rather kill himself.”
He was sinking deeper and deeper, and he probably felt alone, although he wasn’t alone. You were reaching out to him, he had friends around him who loved him. But he didn’t see it, or it wasn’t enough to soothe his pain.
His pain was overwhelming, and it seems to be related to his early childhood, growing up with an ill mother, who couldn’t properly take care of him. In the last conversation he had with his mother, he spoke about that:
My sister told me the last conversation that she had with her son, it was painful to hear. He was clearly distressed. He talked about growing up, how bad he had felt, not living with his own family.
His mother couldn’t take care of him, she had her own cross to bear with MS. But I can imagine that in his childhood brain, this lack of care, this inability of his mother to meet his needs, meant as if he was not lovable enough. And I can imagine that this feeling persisted into his youth. And no matter how loved and popular he was, this feeling was probably eating him up. The pain was too big.
Add to that his health issues (he was fearing he might end up with a debilitating disease), and the situation with his housemates moving to a different place… he probably felt completely abandoned and unloved. It only solidified the feeling he had from his early childhood, his false belief that nobody loves him or cares for him.
Whereas the truth is that so many people loved him and cared for him, including you. And that he was so lovable, so worthy, so appreciated.
But he didn’t know it, he didn’t believe it…
I would like to draw a parallel here with you, Andromeda. With you feeling like a burden, feeling that your presence has no positive impact on people:
I struggle with my mental health and my negativity pushes people away. My presence has no positive affect on people.
I’m dragging my husband down and I am a burden. I know he would be better off if I set him free.
This sounds like the same kind of thinking that your nephew got caught up in. Believing that he is unlovable, while being loved by so many. Believing that he is a burden, while he was actually a beacon of light.
Dear Andromeda, I want to tell you that you are lovable and that you are loved. And needed. And that you matter. And that you have the light in you, which you believe you don’t.
I sit outside and listen to the songbirds, I feel the sun on my face and breathe in the scents of spring. It’s my favourite time of year.
I hope you can open yourself to this idea: that the sun is not only outside of you, where you feel it caress your face, but it is also inside of you. Beautiful light is inside of you <3
March 24, 2024 at 4:47 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #428949TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
I am sorry that you are suffering so much – being objectively hurt and abused by B’s behavior, but still trying to find excuses to continue the relationship:
I AM THE ONE WHO IS STILL IN LOVE WITH HER DESPITE EVERYTHING THAT SHE HAS DONE. I AM HERE RANTING ALL THIS BECAUSE I AM SEARCHING FOR AN EXCUSE, A LOGICAL REASON MY MIND CAN ACCEPT, TO FORGIVE HER AND TAKE HER BACK.
The reasons for B’s promiscuous behavior could be many, and we can talk about it more, but what is for sure that it is absolutely NOT your fault that she went and prostituted herself after the breakup. She tried to put the blame on you:
B also told me that she was heart broken and in pain cause of the break up, saying she felt abandoned by me, which was why she was willing to go along with her aunt.
Okay, so you asked her – not too tactfully – if she was a gold digger, because you heard stories from your parents, who were in general skeptical about women. It’s normal to be offended, but it’s not normal to seek “soothing” in sleeping with a stranger for money.
Her reaction to you offending her (and then breaking up with her) is WAY TOO BIG, it is disproportionate. It’s like someone saying they had to cut their wrists because their boyfriend offended them. It shows that the person has severe mental health issues. So it is very unfair to blame you for this shocking act that she did.
Besides, by the time you asked her the gold-digger question, you had already noticed her suspicious behavior with men. So let’s look at that again for a second.
After your first sexual encounter (around Halloween 2022) and you feeling super in love with her, she admitted she has feelings for her ex:
We continued talking and going to classes together for the next few days until Friday, when she told me that she had feelings for another man (her ex).
You agreed to break up, but then you quickly reconciled.
Shortly after that, you found a half-naked picture in her phone with her ex:
I looked through her pictures and found one with her naked with only a towel with another man behind her removing her braids
When you confronted her about it, she said that “it was the ex that she still had feelings for, and it happened on the day after that we broke up from the decision that its better to not date at all.”
Which means that as soon as you two broke up, she went back to her ex. And not only that, but she invited him to live with her, as her housemate, because her previous housemate (who was a girl) was just leaving.
When you found out about it, you were rightfully angry, because she was hiding it from you. But she didn’t see any fault in herself. She said it wasn’t necessary for you to know.
You forgave her and rationalized it:
The ex is actually a housemate, as they are not sharing rooms but sharing the house. Besides, I have no choice but to forgive that they are living together because it is not their fault that they are college students who cannot afford to get their own place,
Sorry to say, but that’s bs, Paradoxy. I am sure there were plenty of female housemates that she could have chosen from. But no, she was “forced” to live with her ex, whom she accidentally has feelings for (and he for her). Sorry, but I am not buying this. It was wrong and unfair to you.
But I understand you got very attached to her and didn’t want to lose her. And that’s why you always found some excuse and rationalization.
Anyway, this entire scandal is what preceded your gold-digger conversation, which happened around Christmas.
When you asked her the offensive question, you were probably not only influenced by your parents suspicion towards women in general (“and they don’t trust women in general because they have seen many ruined relationships with cheating and gold diggers and etc”), but I can imagine you were also affected by the housing scandal with her ex, and the fact that she was lying to you.
In addition, she once told you that “she and her bestie back then were planning to look around the Med Faculty for the future husband”.
Having all that in mind, it wasn’t that outlandish to ask if she has ulterior motives. I mean, it wasn’t tactful, but unfortunately it wasn’t that baseless.
Anyway, as I said above, there is no way that a normal person would go prostitute herself, as a result of being offended or broken up with. No emotional hurt justifies such an act (unless the person is severely traumatized and/or has accepted prostitution as something normal). So please don’t blame yourself for it, and don’t let her guilt-trip you.
Coming back to your question:
The only proper reason for her impaired judgement at that time is that the break up hurt her enough to just be her aunt’s puppet without resistance. So with that said, should I put this into consideration and give her another chance?
As I’ve just said above, no emotional hurt can be the reason for someone to prostitute themselves, unless they are severely traumatized and/or have accepted prostitution as something normal. She can be both – she was severely traumatized in her childhood, being physically abused by her mother. And then in her teenage years, she was living with her aunt, who taught her to use men for money and privilege. The aunt might have been not physically abusive, she might have even shown her some love. And so B started to accept the worldview that using men for money is okay.
It probably didn’t help that she is a very beautiful and sexy woman, desired by many men:
This woman is actually very beautiful and very sexually attractive to many men. … She has people from modeling agencies, to popular music artists, to company ceos interested in her. … her manager wanted to sleep with her too.
I am sure her aunt told her that too, and probably encouraged her to use her attributes to find a rich husband. I can also imagine that her physical looks and sex appeal were praised by her aunt and she was told to capitalize on them. I can imagine that slowly but surely her main identity became “sexy woman”, a sex object, who is mainly loved for her sexual attributes. These are all speculations, but based on what you said, unfortunately very likely speculations.
This is how she might have been conditioned to go as far as to accept money for sex. I mean, having been brought up in such an environment, receiving such messages, it probably wasn’t unimaginable for her. But the biggest problem I think – if my assumptions are correct – is seeing herself as sex object, basing her identity on her sexual attributes.
That’s probably why she is posting those bikini pictures on social media, even though you explicitly asked her not to. She cannot not do it, because this drive is stronger.
Anyway, in my opinion, she would need therapy. Individual therapy, not couple’s therapy. Because she has her own wounds to heal, and it’s not something you can do for her.
So far you have been trying to help her, to “lead her to the right path”. But that’s not how healing works, Paradoxy. She is the only one who can help herself. She can only heal through therapy, by connecting to her true self. Her non sex-based self.
You did everything in your power, and it hasn’t worked. Because it cannot work. She needs to go within and heal those wounded parts. No one can do that for her.
And you need to help yourself, separately from her. You need to stay away from her (specially from a romantic/sexual relationship with her) and start your own healing. You are a good man, a very loving and caring man, but as you yourself said, you have your own emotional wounds. You tried to heal by helping her. But that’s not possible. You can only heal by helping yourself, by healing your own emotional wounds.
I hope you can see that…
March 23, 2024 at 9:18 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #428929TeeParticipantHey Paradoxy,
thank you for your reply.
It does paint a different picture – so you’re saying that she wasn’t exposed to sexual exploitation as a child/youth. That she wasn’t groomed to become a sex worker. Although her Aunt1, at whose place she stayed for a few years, wasn’t against marrying a man to get citizenship and wealth:
In the time that she spent with her aunt, she was not groomed to be used as a sex worker. The only behavior that her aunt revealed is her own decision to marry men to gain citizenship, wealth etc.
So did her aunt get married to a rich guy?
Aunt1 wasn’t happy about B’s relationship with Al. She didn’t like Al and tried to convince B to leave him. But B refused and stopped speaking to her aunt for about a year:
Then Aunt 1 (the problematic one) found out about her relationship and took it upon herself to be a good mother and talked to the man and realized that Al is a irresponsible man who did not want to take on B’s responsibilities. She told B to leave Al because she knew Al was not a good man but B, on her own accord, rejected her aunt and decided to stay with him. After which, she stopped talking to aunt 1 for a year.
I wonder what were B’s responsibilities that Al didn’t want to take on himself?
The other aunt (Aunt2) at some point wanted B to become a nun:
She had good influence from her family members during this time. Even to the point where one of her aunts (Aunt 2) wanted her to become a nun.
But when B started sleeping with Al, Aunt2 seems to have accepted it. She let her stay at her place during the weekends, while on weekdays she stayed at Al:
Al told her that he was leaving her cause of her restrictions, to which she decided to let go of the restrictions and started having sex with him, staying at his home during week days and living at her Aunt 2’s place on the weekends.
It also seems B was conflicted about starting a sexual relationship with Al, but he threatened to leave her, so she agreed.
About a year later, around the time B was starting college, B and Aunt1 resumed their relationship:
Her aunt and she started talking when she started college again. That was almost the same time that we met. She was desperate to talk to her and she missed her.
she did not even maintain contact with her for an entire year until she needed her again.
Was she desperate to talk to her aunt because around that time, she found out that Al was cheating on her? (She had saved up money to start studying at the college where we met, and saved up enough money to rent her own place too, and he was planning to move closer too. But then Al confessed to cheating on her. Then they broke up, after which, she met T.)
And then, in that moment of fragility, her aunt told her about the married man looking for a young girl for sex? She first gave him her sister’s number, but the guy didn’t want a bit older woman, who already gave birth, so she (Aunt2) suggested B. And B accepted it:
She told her that there was a man who was looking for a young girl for sex. But the aunt told her that she gave her sister’s number to the man instead. But she already had a child so the man wanted B instead. B did not question anything. Aunt 2 started sending the money.
I mean… that’s pretty incredible! First, the fact that the man was inquiring at her aunt about the sex job – is quite telling. And then Aunt1 proceeding to suggest her sister (Aunt2) for the job… is also incredible. And then the sister, not meeting the man’s requirements, proceeded to enlist B.
OMG. The story is quite appalling… but it also shows that her aunts are not some good, caring women who instilled positive values in B, as you said (She had good influence from her family members during this time.) They are in fact immoral women who sought to prostitute their own niece for money.
Since B agreed (and wasn’t at all shocked by the proposition), it tells me that this wasn’t strange for her at all (provided that it all happened, of course. Provided that she didn’t invent the whole story about prostitution). But if it did happen, then she must have been conditioned and groomed into accepting this as something quite normal.
Women don’t go prostitute themselves because they are “stupid”. I am sure she didn’t either. She did it because of either external pressure and expectation (coming from her aunts), or an inner compulsion, perhaps feeling that she is dirty, and then acting it out.
Sometimes people behave in horrible ways because they believe they are bad, they are filthy and rotten inside. If she believes something like that about herself, this can be why she did it.
March 23, 2024 at 12:10 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #428920TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
I think you’ve got every right to be upset with your girlfriend’s behavior, because this is the gist of it (in your own words):
EVERY TIME WE BROKE UP, SHE WENT TO GO ENTERTAIN ANOTHER MAN.
Indeed, she wasn’t able to be without a man for even a short while, but immediately sought the company of her ex-boyfriend, for example.
Not only that, but she also took him in as her roommate and never told you about it. This was happening while the two of you were dating. It is definitely not okay and not fair to you to have her ex-boyfriend as roommate, even if they didn’t have any sexual encounters (which they did, as soon as you two broke up). Moreover, the guy was still interested in her and jealous of you (The guy was jealous that she was able to move on).
So this whole arrangement was unfair to you, it was inappropriate, and she lied about it. When later confronted about it, she gaslighted you that it wasn’t necessary for you to know (Her excuse was that it was unnecessary for me to know).
Another example is when a classmate of yours was making advances towards her, and she refused to tell him that the two of you were dating:
I told her to let him know that we were dating but she said it was unnecessary.
And then as soon as you two broke up (during one of your many breakups), she started sexting with him.
It appears to me that she cannot stay away from men’s advances and men’s attention. This could be a result of her being sexually abused and used for prostitution since her youth. In other words, it could be the result of trauma.
For example, if it was expected from her to have sex with men and if she received love from her aunt (her primary caregiver) only if she obeyed, it is possible that she only feels worthy if she is sexually available to men. Being with men maybe also gives her a sense of security. I don’t want to speculate, but the type of behavior she exhibits could easily be the result of trauma.
However, it doesn’t mean you need to tolerate it, because it certainly isn’t appropriate, it’s very hurtful towards you, and it cannot be a basis for a healthy relationship.
So when you say:
I should not have to be forced to put up with this kind of behavior from a woman who knows better
You indeed shouldn’t force yourself (nor be forced by her) to put up with her behavior. As for her knowing better, that’s questionable, because even if she rationally knows better, she can’t do better – because she is still playing out her trauma. Nevertheless, that’s not an excuse to stay with her, because her behavior is clearly abusive.
I would like to address what you said about her positive qualities, which as you said, make you hesitant and doubting whether you should give her another chance.
I cannot be blind to all the good things about her. The way she took care of me was on par with my own mother. Cooking for me, getting me facial hygiene products, taking care of my hair, giving me massages and etc.
always taking care of me, cooking meals for me, ensuring I was always healthy, and etc. I felt as if she was loving me like how a proper wife should and I very much appreciated it because women do not always do that level of caring for their partner.
This sounds like she was taking good care of your physical needs (cooking for you, making sure you eat healthy, giving you massages etc). She seems to have given you a lot of physical nurturance.
However, she wasn’t treating you well emotionally. She was hurting you, hiding her encounters with other men and telling you it’s okay that you don’t know about it. Basically gaslighting you.
She is the first person to have ever loved me. Not even my own parents cared for me the way she did. I’ve never been able to make any proper friends. She was the only person who treated me like I meant something,
She did care for your physical needs, and she always wants to get back together after you break up. In that sense, she is interested in you, she doesn’t want to lose you. You clearly are an important person in her life.
But the problem is that she is interested in other men too. You said she even developed feelings for the married guy who was paying her for sex. This could be a sign of trauma and as you said, of Stockholm syndrome even. But in practice, what it means is that right now, she isn’t able to be faithful. She isn’t able to reject other men’s advances. And that’s why she is inevitably going to cause you pain.
You said many times that her behavior is “stupid”. Well, every addiction is stupid. Every self-destructive behavior that stems from trauma – is stupid. I think that her behavior with men is akin to addiction – it is self-destructive, but it seems that at the moment she cannot control it.
If she wants healing, she would need to accept that she has a problem and then spend some time in therapy. But if she is blaming you for her behavior and telling you it’s not a big deal that she has secret liaisons with other men, and shutting you down when you want to talk about it (blaming me for her behavior and shutting me down every time I asked her listen to me) – then she is far from accepting that she needs therapy. She is fooling both you and herself.
She promised to help me heal but I do not think so.
She should focus on her own healing. She should admit she has a problem and seek therapy (I don’t know how open she is to therapy?). And you should step away from the relationship and stop exposing yourself to further abuse.
I wish you healing and hope to talk to you some more…
March 22, 2024 at 1:25 am in reply to: Understanding someone who's recently divorced and not ready #428899TeeParticipantDear Dafne,
good to hear from you again, and thank you again for your kindness and care. I haven’t figured out how to use emoticons on this website, but I enjoy seeing yours 🙂
The spring has come, but unfortunately my health took a turn for the worse again, with my back pain intensifying for no apparent reason. I hope it’s just a phase and will get better soon…
I am glad you liked the video about narcissistic people and pets.
Not many people are aware of that dynamic and generalise (just like me before) that all dog lovers are good people to everybody.
I can imagine it was confusing for you to see your father love and care for his dogs so much, and at the same time be so cold towards you. And I can imagine it made you conclude that he must be a good person, and that something is wrong with you.
Narcissistic people can also pretend very well to the outside world how loving and caring they are, whereas be extremely cold and abusive with their immediate family. They are very good at maintaining the fake image of themselves, and so if you would to complain to a say a friend of yours about your father, they might not understand what you are talking about, because they see your father as a good person. Did you have experiences like that – that other people don’t agree with how you see your father (if you ever spoke to anyone about it?)
At least now thanks to you, I know that it’s not true & I should never find excuses for his behaviour. And also not to blame myself all the time.
I am glad you’ve realized this and have a more clear view of him, and will not tolerating his abuse any more. This is a huge progress, Dafne, and I think a major milestone in your healing!
I was quite sensitive and shy as a small girl so there was no way for me to express myself freely. I had to be quite and hide in my room to avoid the conflict & the constant fights.
Maybe my personality as a child contributed to the fact that I can’t cope with life or romantic relationships in my adult life?
I know that some children were more stronger than me (especially those with siblings) and kept going, married early and broke contact with their abusive family members. I wasn’t that strong & I was always afraid to hurt them & say or do something wrong.
Every child is negatively affected by parental abuse and neglect, but we react differently. Some children feel stronger and they decide in themselves not to need love, and go through life emotionally closed and fearing emotional intimacy. They may appear strong and independent, but deep within, they are hurting, only it’s hard for them to admit. This attachment style is called avoidant attachment – these people avoid emotional intimacy and sometimes avoid relationships altogether, because they are afraid of being hurt (like they were hurt with their parents).
Other children, like you and myself, feel weaker, and they crave someone to take care of them, to give them the love and care they didn’t get as children. These people tend to be more clingy and expect their partner to be a surrogate parent in a way. That attachment style is called anxious attachment.
So if someone appears strong, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are healed, or that they haven’t been negatively affected by their childhood. Rather, it might be a defense mechanism. But it can also be that those people did heal, and realized they don’t want to endure abuse, and so they distanced themselves or even cut contact entirely with their abusive family members.
It was hard to be a child. I never spoke about my childhood with my potential dates as I could scare them away & also did not want to talk negatively about my family.
I imagine one reason why it was hard for you to talk negatively about your family (specially about your father), is that he was actually gaslighting you and telling you that your soul chose him to be your father and thus, he has no responsibility whatsoever for his behavior. That was a very serious spiritual gaslighting, intended to wash responsibility from himself and put all the blame on you. So he was confusing you and manipulating you, and you took the blame on yourself.
But maybe you’re right that one day, with the right person it could still be possible to share. For the moment I’m not ready to do that…
Yes, you don’t need to share it immediately, specially not with a potential romantic interest. But do you have a friend or relative, with whom you could share about your father? Or they wouldn’t be able to understand?
This life is not an easy journey and being emotional doesn’t always help us.
No, it’s not, and it’s a hard lesson to learn… But we need to keep on keeping on…. towards more and more healing!
Love and a big hug to you <3
TeeParticipantDear Worldofthewaterwheels,
you are welcome!
I feel when i write this stuff down i need a couple of days to come back and deal with it. Its like this endless flow of emotional stuff that doesnt seem to end.
Sure, take your time. I understand it’s not easy to write it all down and feel the weight of it… so please, take it easy.
I think the bit about C-PTSD is very interesting, the concept that you don´t feel safe or feeling like you need to be a “warrior” to the outside world is pretty familiar.
I am glad it resonates with you. Learning about C-PTSD helped me too to understand myself better and how the sense of safety is key. And with childhood trauma, we don’t have that sense of safety (either physical or emotional or both). We feel constantly in danger, and then as a reaction, we either fight or flee.
Even trying to identify my mom as a source of this issue is still hard for me. She said only yesterday that i should try EMDR therapy and had my therapist suggested it? my therapist has really only suggested i join groups, classes and get out more.
I understand it’s hard for you. But actually, her trying to be “helpful” when you are down isn’t anything new, right? You said that when you complain, she always gives you advice, but also tends to dismiss the severity of your problem, or starts talking about some minor stuff of her own. As far as I understood, she is good at giving advice without empathy.
And then when you are doing fine, she “goes a bit quiet, pulls away and doesnt look happy.”
So the dynamic seems to be like this: as long as you are down, miserable and unhappy, she seems helpful. But as soon as you are up, “on top of things” and proud of your achievements, she is unhappy.
This is how I would explain it: when you are unhappy and miserable, she is not endangered by you because she gets to stay on top. But when you are successful, she does feel endangered, and she doesn’t like it. That’s when she punishes you by withdrawing her love and support.
I think the problem is that i cant complain, cant argue with friends for fear of losing them..but will anyway. If you cant be honest with each other then where is the reality.
But others..they dont stick around. Maybe they are too busy themselves or maybe its because nothing ever seems to get better for me and its painful to watch? i notice that sometimes i have to fill silence with talk because they are not saying anything, or worse, looking over my shoulder…so i have to conclude that im not much fun to be around.
I think you might be right that when you complain a lot, it may become too much of a burden for your friends. I assume they (at least some of them) want the best for you, they would like you to be happy. But they don’t know how to help, and so they distance themselves a bit. Would you say that’s true?
i feel a lot of shame for not having a career. Shame! another factor that i dont really need right now.
Yes, shame is another component of C-PTSD. No wonder you feel shame, if you have been compared to others a lot. You were in a difficult situation, because on one hand, your mother was jealous of you and didn’t like you to achieve. But it was never openly expressed – it was covert. What she did express openly was comparing you to others and making you feel worse than them. But if you were better than them (or equally good as them), she wouldn’t be happy… so it seems to me like “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation.
Problem is, i know im stronger… maybe IM the covert narc or able to emulate one.
No, dear World (I’d much prefer to call you World, if that’s okay with you? Because you are much bigger and expansive than what you believe!), you are not a covert narcissist. If you were, you wouldn’t have shame about yourself and you wouldn’t think of yourself as a dork who messes up everything.
So please, don’t think of yourself as a narcissist. You only want your power back – power that you had to relinquish to please your mother…
March 21, 2024 at 12:13 am in reply to: Is he playing?? Have I been ghosted?? Feeling stupid and heartbroken #428846TeeParticipantDear Laven,
what I am noticing is that your relationship was rather rocky from the start, with quite a few disagreements:
When we would have disagreements sometimes, and would stop communicating for a few days..due to differences of opinions..
I told him that we had to learn how to better communicate with one another, and not put much space between us when there are disagreements.
You would stop communicating after those disagreements (I don’t know if it was him or you who stopped contact?), but then he would be the one to apologize and seek contact again:
he always ventured back to me often apologizing, telling me that he missed me, and just wanted to sit down and talk in person
Could you say a little bit about the nature of those disagreements? Because if two people have fundamentally different views on topics that are important to them, it’s not a good prospect for a relationship anyway.
It’s not a good sign either that he recently told you he wanted to break up with you:
Two days before we saw each other last, he told me that he didn’t think it would work out between us and was pursuing other women on social media..and was going to focus on that… I got really upset and heartbroken and wanted clarity..
And then after you got very upset, he apologized and backtracked and told you he wants to spend the rest of his life with you:
then later on that day he begged me to forgive him and told me he was just saying that to make me jealous, and to see if I was really interested and cared about him. That he felt uncared for by me. He said now that he knew how I felt, he wanted to make plans to spend the rest of our lives together. That I was the only one for him, etc….
This is a sign that he is internally very conflicted about this relationship: on one hand he wants it (he initiates contact after your disagreements, he apologizes and begs, he comes home from work just to get a hug). But at the same time, he ghosts you after sex, which is a very hurtful behavior, and he also told you directly that he doesn’t think the relationship would work out and is seeking other women.
I am almost certain that I saw him there with another woman as well and they were making out…
He swears that there are no other women…
Even if there are no other women at the moment, he is thinking about it. He seems conflicted, he might have self-esteem issues (being worried about his sexual performance), but in any case, it doesn’t look promising, as it is now.
He is definitely hurting you with his hot-and-cold behavior, his disappearing after intimacy, his promises which he later breaks. This is not sustainable, it’s not a basis for a healthy relationship.
He would need to not only admit that he has a problem (as he is doing now, when he apologizes), but also act on it, e.g. seek therapy. Because right now, his behavior is abusive: he apologizes for hurting you and tells you something that sounds good (e.g. that “he often has trouble expressing his emotions”). He promises not to hurt you again, but then he still does. So it’s a false promise, and the abuse keeps happening.
I think that unless he agrees to seek counseling, you shouldn’t be hoping for him to change. Even if he is not manipulating you on purpose and playing games with you, he is hurting you. His behavior is abusive.
I sometimes feel like confronting him, but I think that may be a bad idea. I don’t want him to think that I am desperate and thinking about him.
I’m soo confused and heartbroken. It is extremely difficult moving on…especially living in close proximity to one another.
I am sorry you are hurting, Laven. He does seem like trouble. I am not sure if you should confront him and ask him to seek therapy, or you should just let go. I don’t know if based on everything you said, he is a good match for you and actually worth pursuing… (considering your frequent arguments, for example, which might indicate deeper disagreements).
TeeParticipantDear Worldofthewaterwheels,
I am glad to hear more about your story. I am really sorry you are suffering so much and I totally understand it is very hard, with you being very sensitive to any setback and feeling like you are only getting bad luck all the time. You’ve mentioned that you might be suffering from PTSD, as a result of bullying (online and at your workplace):
I feel im going crazy sometimes by the way im so sensitive and reactive to things. I know it could be any combination of things, including depression, anxiety, PTSD from being hacked and persecuted online, bullied by my workplace and overhauling my problems with family or lack thereof.
I believe that you do indeed suffer from PTSD, but in fact Complex PTSD (C-PTSD), which is another name for childhood trauma. Almost every adult who has been emotionally abused or neglected as a child, and hasn’t healed, suffers from C-PTSD, and I am one of them too.
You once mentioned you feel chemically different than other people, and in a way, that’s true. People with C-PTSD have a dysregulated nervous system. They feel constantly on edge, in the fight-or-flight mode. They feel in danger, needing to defend themselves (fight) or run away (flight) all the time. They also feel hypervigilant and sensitive to any negative outer signal. You said that about yourself too:
My sensitivity is therefore, really high right now. i just dont want to lose any more, experience any more negativity.
I cant cope with any bad news. To escape it i go out and buy little things that add up to a lot, drink too much.
I can’t handle any small problem. My mind races with negative thoughts, i get exhausted..i get nothing done. I feel more angry with myself.
i walk around with fear, worrying about anything done wrong and its a catastrophe in my head.
i feel like ive been beaten up mentally.
All these are signs of C-PTSD. The good news is that there is cure for it. A big part of it is learning to find a sense of safety in your own body, and thus calming down your nervous system, so that it’s not on high alert all the time. We can talk about it more and I can give you some resources, if you’re interested.
But I’d like to explain why I think you got C-PTSD in the first place. I think it’s related to your mother and her being a covert narcissist, and the effects it had on you. Here is what you said about your childhood:
When i was a kid i remember i was the one helping everyone else process their emotions, trying to empathize with others was my thing. My friends were all oddbeat and sensitive in one way or another and i loved that. I never felt popular and i never felt on top of things. And i felt guilty if i ever had more, if someone was left out.
There were times when i dumbed myself down, wore baggier clothes, i didnt speak up.
In my experiences…when i really did well, there was always someone in the crowd visibly unhappy and it would bother me.
I was a good child, did as i was told, my sister more rebellious so i guess i felt the need to be responsible. … But i had nothing to push against something i guess that leaves you wondering if you re doing the right thing..if no one says anything. I didnt get disapproval but the comparison to others was definitely present.
You didn’t get disapproval, but you didn’t get approval and encouragement either. Your mother would go silent if you achieved something good, right? You said “when i have achieved something great..she goes a bit quiet, pulls away and doesnt look happy.”
You also said: when i really did well, there was always someone in the crowd visibly unhappy and it would bother me”
I can imagine that it was actually your mother who was unhappy when you did well. Because she would get distant and silent and looked unhappy, wouldn’t she?
You said she was very good at victimizing herself too, making other people feel sorry for her. So I can imagine how you didn’t want to “brag” about any of your achievements, because that would make her sad and distant, and possibly go into a self-pitying mode. And it would make you feel guilty.
That’s why it was better for you to dumb yourself down, wear baggy clothes, not really talk about your successes. Because there was always someone (your mother) waiting to take away your joy and make you feel guilty about being successful.
When you say you could never “get on top of things”, it seems to me that you could never claim your victory and be proud of your successes – because she would always take it away from you. She did it with her hidden (covert) jealousy and her self-pitying. This is what covert narcissists do to their children. I wonder if this is what your mother did too?
If so, I can see how you were not allowed to be successful, you felt guilty for it. And of course, you felt angry about it too, rightfully so. Because you had to suppress yourself and your achievements. And you still feel that same anger, and want to prove yourself, because you were never allowed to prove yourself as a child.
How does this sound to you?
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