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TeeParticipant
Dear soma,
the overwhelming urge to sleep is usually a way to disassociate from the problem. It’s a way to escape when we believe we can’t deal with life challenges. From what you’ve written, it seems you’re in a difficult situation, which requires you to make important decisions, however you don’t know what to do, and you don’t feel that help is available either. That would warrant your wanting to hide and escape – into sleep. Would you be willing to tell us a bit more about your situation and what’s the biggest challenge you’re facing?
TeeParticipantDear Nar,
“I don’t know why it is so difficult to accept that we were abused as children, why instead of facing to what happened, we just accept it as love… I guess part of it is because we still want to cling to that love that all children really need to survive. We can’t let go of the illusion that we were not always loved or that we were not loved at all in extreme cases…”
Yes, I believe it’s because the child, even if severely abused, rather blames themselves than the parent for the abuse. Because if the child is guilty, there’s at least hope in their mind that once they “become better”, the parent will stop the abuse and finally show them love. If on the other hand it’s the parent’s fault, the child cannot cope with the idea that they are left at the mercy of an abusive parent, and that they are helpless about it. So by blaming themselves and exculpating the parent – they’re actually able to hope that some day it will be better, they they will get what they need, if only they change. So yes, it’s an unconscious survival mechanism…
“But mistreatments and abuse are way beyond and much more complicated than just physical harm caused to children. Silent treatments, emotional blackmail, power control, withdrawals, judgements, demands.. Why are children brought up this way? Why do we damage the most innocent beings in such cruel ways and they just turn a blind eye to everything and want to be loved by anyone…”
Well, because our parents were wounded children themselves, and if they don’t heal their wounds, they simply transfer it to us. I remember my mother when she was younger didn’t want to be like her mother, but then later became exactly like her, and was even glorifying her, even if her mother was very cold and strict. She refused to see there was any problem with her mother, and she also refuses to see there was any problem with how she brought me up. Many people unfortunately refuse to take responsibility for their actions and they just keep repeating those same old destructive patterns…
It is all very sad but also incredibly awakening for me as I am not a parent yet luckily and I absolutely understand the full moral responsibility of being one now. I know I must work out through my own traumas and issues, so I pass none of that onto my children. So I never live in the past.
It’s great that you’re aware of those things and will become a much more conscious parent. Luckily, there are many conscious parenting trainings and seminars out there, which can be very helpful. I myself am not a parent, and it’s partially because for a long time I haven’t felt emotionally ready to be a mother, because I haven’t received a good example from my own mother. So it’s wonderful that you’re working on healing your emotional wounds… But also know that it’s enough to be a “good enough” mother (you can look it up what it means), you don’t need to be perfect, and the child doesn’t need a perfect mother, but just “good enough”. But that too is only possible if we’ve solved our core emotional wounds…
I genuinely want to break free from my past. The work on myself is constant and part of me wishes there was a way to end all the problems in one go.
Yeah, I know… Perhaps it would help if you’d take a look at the Maslow’s pyramid of needs, because it lists our core emotional needs. In order to break free from our past, I believe we need to meet those core needs – the need for safety, security, love and belonging, and recognition/validation. It’s not like one should work in a linear fashion on those wounds, from the bottom up, but still, for me, it helped me a lot to observe myself in the context of those core needs.
TeeParticipantDear Michelle,
you mentioned that your wound might be rather related to your mother than to your father. In one of your older posts you said this about your mother:
“I just don’t know if I have a pattern of seeking emotionally unavailable people because maybe I too, am emotionally unavailable people. My mother was anxious avoidant in childhood and this was due to her upbringing. She sought out love from her children to fill her voids.”
I’ve checked the characteristics of the anxious-avoidant pattern, and am copy-pasting them here:
“Anxious-avoidant attachment types (also known as the “fearful or disorganized type”) bring together the worst of both worlds. Anxious-avoidants are not only afraid of intimacy and commitment, but they distrust and lash out emotionally at anyone who tries to get close to them. Anxious-avoidants often spend much of their time alone and miserable, or in abusive or dysfunctional relationships.
Anxious-avoidants are low in confidence and less likely to express emotions, preferring to suppress them. However, they can have intense emotional outbursts when under stress. They also don’t tend to seek help when in need due to a distrust of others. This sucks because they are also incapable of sorting through their own issues.
Anxious-avoidants really get the worst of both worlds. They avoid intimacy not because they prefer to be alone like avoidants. Rather, they avoid intimacy because they are so terrified of its potential to hurt them.”
It seems your boyfriend fits this description pretty well. This sentence: “They also don’t tend to seek help when in need due to a distrust of others.” – would explain why he doesn’t want to go to therapy.
If your mother was similar, it could very well be that you’re seeking to get love from her, through your boyfriend…
What do you think?
TeeParticipantDear Michelle,
you’re welcome. I understand that you have an inner feeling that you should stay. And it’s not the voice of fear, but intuition. Well, it’s possible. Perhaps you should stay, but then you’d need to accept that you stay under his conditions – within the confines that he dictates. And you’d need to stop yourself from wanting more from him, from probing about the future, from hoping. Or even if you do hope, you mustn’t share it with him, but be very careful about how you express your feelings. For how long do you think you would be able to do that, without feeling exhausted? Without starting to suffer? And do you believe that you should suffer for love, if that’s in some higher interest?
TeeParticipantDear Michelle,
He seems to want to let me end things more for me than him. He seems to know that he won’t be better off. It’s like he’s trying to do what’s fair. I asked if he felt he would feel relief and he said no.
Yes, because he knows he’ll be missing your very careful and considerate love and attention, which didn’t cause him anxiety. But your full expression of love, including saying “I love you” to each other and planning for the future – he cannot manage. And I believe you do want to be able to fully express your love and fully live it, without walking on eggshells. He knows his limits, and at this point doesn’t seem interested to stretch them. Or rather, he did stretch them up to a point – you said he can now bear to see you crying, he doesn’t run out of the room if you have an argument, or suchlike. But his biggest fear – of living with you – he cannot overcome. It’s another level for him, for which he isn’t ready. I believe you shouldn’t wait till he’s ready, if he isn’t willing to go to therapy.
In my case I may be allowing my intuition to lead me into a relationship that is uncertain as for the moment it eases a larger anxiety, a fear of being without him.
Yes, and because fear is behind it, it might not even be your intuition. It’s the fear of losing him.
In your earlier posts you expressed that you believe you’re soul mates, that being with him is different, that you feel compelled to stay with him and keep trying, in spite of all the difficulties. Actually this can happen when our soul (and our inner child) recognizes the opportunity to heal a childhood wound. You once said you’ve been attracted to men who remind you of your father (“My dad was very loving with me but passed in my early 20s. He was also a highly depressed/OCD sufferer. And I have sought out men like him for some time…”)
So you’re aware of that inclination of yours. We get attracted to people who remind us of our parents, so we can finally get the love we haven’t received in childhood. If your father wasn’t emotionally available to you, there’s a very high chance that you’ll seek out similar men and try to make them love you and be emotionally responsive to you. Perhaps this man reminds you the most of your father. And perhaps that’s why the longing and the willingness to make the relationship work is stronger than in your previous relationships. And also, why you now don’t feel excited about dating other men…
I wonder if I should try again for the sake of my sanity and he says he thinks I will find someone better than him,
I think the most important at this point would be that you work on that childhood wound, before seeking another relationship. And it appears to me that the time is ripe now for you to take a look at that wound.
TeeParticipantDear Michelle,
I am sorry things have turned worse again. I believe he’s afraid of commitment, and one of the reasons might be exactly his OCD, which limits him extremely, as he needs his structure to maintain his balance and a sense of control. That’s why everything else is less important than him maintaining his sense of “peace”. Unfortunately that means that you too, as a potential disturbing factor, are secondary to his peace. Even though he says “he’s never felt that anyone had fulfilled him this way before“, his fear of things becoming unmanageable is larger. That’s why he cannot and doesn’t want to promise you anything. He’s very confined by his fear and would need to work on it. But if he’s not willing to, there isn’t much you can do.
You say “it doesn’t feel over“. Well, it doesn’t need to be over if you agree to his conditions – to stay within the confines of his fear, to never mention a committed relationship, to have no expectations from him in that regard. I think Anita once noticed that he might be quite loving and caring within his comfort zone, but as soon as he is asked to step out of it, he shuts down. Now he did it again, as soon as you started probing about the future.
By the way, I am not surprised he’s not interested in dating other women, because the same fear would arise in him with someone else. You were exceptionally understanding and tolerant with him, and that’s why he said he never felt fulfilled like that before. But unfortunately, he cannot step out of his own prison, so even if we feels good with you, his fear is stronger.
It just seems like if it’s going to end I’m going to have to do it. But it doesn’t feel over, I just think hes messed up.
Well, until you’re full of love and understanding for him, he’ll want to stay with you. But if you keep demanding things from him, he might be the one to break up with you. He isn’t going to beg you to stay, because he cannot promise you the things you want from him.
I am sorry, Michelle. I know you don’t want it to end. But your love isn’t enough for him to change. He would need a strong resolve to work on himself and go to therapy, but he isn’t willing to do that. Perhaps you could ask him – as one final attempt – whether he’s willing to go to therapy, if not for his own but for your sake? And that you see his fears, but is he willing to work to overcome them? Or he’s willing to let the relationship go, because his fear is stronger?
TeeParticipantDear Michelle,
I don’t know, it would be very hard to end things right now. Things are good and I am happy with him, I just see a future with him and want to at least sketch a plan for that. He seems receptive to possibilities so we will see.
Yes, there’s no reason why you would end the relationship now, since things are good and you’re happy, and he’s not rejecting the possibility of living together in the future. Also, you say you’re not too eager to have children, I mean it’s not your priority to settle down and become a mother, although you see it as a possibility in the future. So from this perspective too you don’t feel pressure to go down that road right now. You have time to wait and explore this relationship further.
You say he had a bad experience with his former room mate – what exactly was the problem? If I remember well, you earlier said he was critical of your eating habits, and that you’re not orderly enough. A part of the reason why he doesn’t want to move in together might be his OCD, because you would disturb his sense of order, and order calms him down. I guess that’s one of the things he’d need to work on before moving in with you.
Sharing a life with someone is not easy, so he’d need to become much more relaxed and less guarded of his sense of peace. If he’s suffering from OCD, it’s a very fragile sense of peace, and he doesn’t want it to be disturbed by any means, no matter how much he might care for you. As I am writing this, this is what’s coming to me as perhaps the greatest practical problem and limitation for your relationship: that he needs a particular structure and order to self-regulate, and he’s afraid that you living with him might disturb that balance.
I think he’s quite afraid to have any sort of unhappiness within a relationship. He seems to rely on it to maintain a bit of equilibrium, so it’s as if he’s trying to create a situation that will instil maximum contentment and peace.
I am afraid that his “unhappiness” might be caused by very small things, like your eating habits, or you e.g. not cleaning the flat the way he’d want to. On top of that come the inevitable disagreements and tension in a relationship, which are completely normal, but for a person with a very fragile emotional balance, it may throw him over the top.
I am sorry I am mentioning this, actually when I started replying, this aspect didn’t even occur to me, but as I was writing, I started feeling it might be a pretty big obstacle. Have you thought about it and how you’d deal with it?
TeeParticipantDear Jenny,
I am late to your thread and have been trying to catch up. I am glad you’re in a better place now than you’ve been before. You’ve had a very productive discussion with Anita, and now many things are clearer to you, and you feel much better about yourself. But there’s still something troubling you, as you say: you’re almost missing his calls now that you’ve changed your number. You feel rejected all over again (it’s as if he left me all over again). You’re surprised that he isn’t trying something to reach you (now I am wondering why is he not doing something to reach out), and you’re a little disappointed, or sad, that he might be moving on.
In February 2021, you said to Anita:
What I definitely did want was for him to see that I am not the needy clingy woman that he thought me to be when he left. I wanted him to see that I am one High Value woman that HE LOST. I wanted him to feel a sense of LOSING a girl who really loved him and was special.
When Anita asked you if you don’t feel worthy enough, you said you do – you do feel worthy to your parents, to your friends and co-workers, but it’s just this one man that humiliated you and took all of your pride.
In many of your posts, you were actually stressing how valuable and special you are, but that he refused to acknowledge it. That’s why you felt angry and offended at him. You were specially offended that he called you a child:
“I feel so insulted when I remember he said that I am a child. I can imagine him thinking he was right about me and that I am just an immature girl which I am not Anita. He has the audacity to behave whichever way and then why I have one slip-up he has the audacity to pass such statements on me. I am just insulted Anita, feel just very insulted by someone who should’ve by now been regretting losing me instead of calling me a child.”
“I mean he has made me feel like such an argumentative, crying, weak woman. And now he’s calling me a child as if I am some immature person that needs growing up.”
You also said, in one of your earlier posts: But my biggest fear is that tomorrow I’ll see him have a perfect life with another girl and it will reiterate that I was the one who was at fault.
Based on what you’ve expressed, it seems to me that you do have self-respect and value yourself, however you didn’t get that respect from your mother. She was criticizing you for slouching, and you would protest: “you can’t talk to me like that.” You demanded respect from your mother, and would argue about it with her (you said you were rude, to match her rudeness), but you never got her respect. You didn’t get respect from your father either because he never stood in your defense, but your main wound is with your mother. She treated you like an immature child, while you wanted to be treated respectfully, like an adult. (I wonder if there were other ways in which she criticized you or where you felt humiliated, beside slouching?)
I believe that you do value yourself, but you wish she’d value you too. And that desire – to be valued and respected – you transferred to your boyfriend. There’s still a part of you – the wounded inner child – where you aren’t sure that you’re worthy, because you didn’t get your parents’ (specially your mother’s) confirmation. You think you are, but you’re not sure. That’s why you said your biggest fear is that it would turn out that you were the one who was at fault, and that there’s nothing wrong with him. That’s your inner child insecure of its worth. It has to have it confirmed by other people.
You found a man who reminds you in some aspects of your mother, and you were trying to get his confirmation. But instead, he humiliated you most of the time. You would beg him to show you some respect, but to no avail. He would be even more cruel. He didn’t want to give you that one thing that you craved so much: the confirmation that you’re valuable and special.
What’s the way out? To understand with your entire being that indeed, you are valuable and special. To give that confirmation to your inner child, and not expect it from other people. I believe this is what’s missing for you to heal and really let go of him.
Tell me what you think and if it resonates with you.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Tee.
TeeParticipantDear Michelle,
Good to hear from you again! I was often thinking about you and how you’re doing. Glad you’re doing fine and are experiencing “a consistent expression of love and support” in your relationship. It appears that one of your mail goals in this relationship is growth, i.e. that you are consciously trying to lessen your compulsion for security, while at the same time taking care that your basic emotional needs are met. (“I have moved on from men who don’t meet my needs, and have since learned a lot about what my needs are. Now it’s more about balancing my needs with my compulsions for security.”)
You also appear to be aware of the possible limitations of your relationship, and also of his “eternal sadness and numbness”.
“I recently suggested that he might want to consider therapy in the future as his lifelong sadness and numbness (as he puts it) has plagued him from early childhood, and I feel that it might keep him from feeling the depth of his emotions fully. That may or may not apply to our relationship. That is for him to discern and attempt at his leisure.”
In this I believe you’re mistaken – his emotional wounds do apply to your relationship, and will apply in the future as well. Until he starts processing them, he can’t be a partner you’re looking for on the long run. He can be an experiment and someone you’re practicing your tolerance with, your letting go of your need for security. So he can be someone you’re stretching your limits with, but on the long run, he needs to be willing to stretch his limits too. If he’s unwilling to go to therapy, it’s almost like saying “sorry, this is my maximum, I am not willing to work on my issues. So take it or leave it.” His willingness to work on his own emotional issues would be a true sign to me that he’s willing to change and allow himself to go deeper with you.
It doesn’t mean you need to push him to go to therapy, specially if you see he’s stretching his limits already and willing to work on the relationship, but just be aware that it’s a sign of how far he’s willing to go.
“I just don’t see love as something to attain and hold onto desperately. I just feel that it is something fluid that slips in and out of our grasp, dancing around us, reflecting back what is already there.”
In this part I agree with Chickadee33, when she said “Some love is solid, dependable, not desperate and doesn’t slip out of our grasp.” She’s right, true love isn’t fluid and doesn’t slip away and disappear. Such love is possible with someone who has solved his core emotional wounds. Until he’s willing to do that, your love will be fragile and prone to slipping away. But it’s on you to decide if this is something you can live with and what your priorities are. If the current situation suits you and you’re not hurting, but are feeling fulfilled, then by all means, go for it.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Tee.
TeeParticipantDear Felix,
first thing I’ve noticed, not just now but in at least one previous occasion too, is that you send your replies extremely quickly. Ten minutes after I posted you already sent a pretty long response. It’s a similar pattern to what I described earlier: someone gives you a suggestion, and you immediately swing it back, like a ball, explaining why this suggestion doesn’t work for you, or repeating more of the same problem. Now you haven’t done exactly that, you did reflect and comment on what I’ve said, but it feels like you’re rushing to give a response. You don’t allow yourself to really hear it, to reflect on it, but you immediately shoot it back.
This can be one manifestation of your inability to receive – receive advice, help, or perhaps receive love as well. In order to receive it, you’d need to slow down, and perhaps there’s fear of what you might find within if you do slow down. You said you feel empty, and also that you’re ashamed and embarrassed, and that you have low self-esteem, although you aren’t shy to e.g. talk to girls. That’s possible because we might have self-confidence (because we’re good at presenting, selling, doing sports etc), but we still might lack self-esteem and self-worth – because that goes deeper, to the core of our being.
I believe your feeling empty has to do with the lack of self-esteem and self-worth. You don’t believe there’s anything worthy in there. That’s why it’s also hard for you to slow down and listen to your inner voice. It’s cool that you meditate, but I am figuring there’s still some disconnect there.
One way you can connect with yourself is to close your eyes, put one hand on your heart and the other on you belly, and breathe, and feel your belly rise and fall as you breathe. It’s a hug of sort, where you feel yourself, accept yourself and comfort yourself at the same time. Try it if you’d like.
I could go on, but would first like to ask your opinion about what I’ve wrote, and whether you have received it.
TeeParticipantDear Felix,
I also don’t know how to ask for help.
It seems to me you do know how to ask for help – at least you did it here on the forum – but it’s much harder for you to accept help, or even just to open yourself to the possibility that there is help, that your situation isn’t helpless as you believe it is. Many of us here wrote giving ideas and suggestions, but you mostly brushed them away, or didn’t respond, always returning to the same narrative: that it’s extremely hard for you, that you’ve had horrible losses, you’re alone, you’re getting older, you’re trying like hell, doing your best, but nothing seems to be working, and you’re exhausted and desperate.
I am sorry to say this, but you sound like a broken record. I know it’s hard for you right now, but it appears as if you switch on the “automatic response”, which swiftly repels a possible solution, a possible relief of your problem.
I am fighting against something, but don’t even know against what.
You’re right, you’re fighting against something, and it seems you’re fighting against yourself and your own happiness. You’re focusing only on the negatives, repeating them again and again in your mind, like a broken record, and actively rejecting possible positives. I am sorry to say this, but it will be very difficult to find a way out, with this current attitude.
TeeParticipantDear NYC Artist,
another thing occurred to me – that even if you know how to protect yourself, you don’t want to live in a world where you constantly have to be on guard, where people are hostile to each other, where you can’t just freely give and receive love. A world of war and conflict. For your 2-yr old self, it was a pretty big trauma to have a cigarette lighter being lit in front of her face. Not to mention all other incidents where you felt scared and terrified. So it wouldn’t be surprising that you’re now longing for a world without danger and conflict.
TeeParticipantDear NYC Artist,
you’re welcome. I’d like to acknowledge you for the fact that in spite of the abuse you’ve experienced in your childhood, you’re not tolerating it in your adult life:
It’s not a matter of pride at all, but again, self preservation. I’ve grown up with abuse and it feels strange to me to not accept that behaviour.
This is huge, it’s a proof of your strength and the ability to self-preserve and love yourself. I understand you also have a very good husband, which too stands as a proof that the childhood abuse hasn’t ruined your capacity for self-love, self-respect and self-preservation. That’s admirable!
What might be happening is that the little girl is still seeking to change her mother and her early care-takers, so that she does get the love and care she needed. So that she could experience peace that she never had in her childhood home. What if your craving for peace in the world is fueled by the same desire – to have peace and love in your own family home? A part of you still seems to look for that peace outside and depends on other people to provide it for you. Even on political leaders. But of course, the attempt is futile, they can never ensure the peace you’re longing for. The answer is to create that peace and love – that safe, loving space – within yourself.
What do you think? Is there a chance that this is what might be happening within you?
March 30, 2021 at 2:55 am in reply to: I’m addicted to nostalgic feelings and it only makes me feel worse, I guess. #376816TeeParticipantDear miyoid,
you’re welcome! It’s a great idea to spend more time on things you enjoy and that fill you with energy, such as creating art, drawing, tattooing. It will make you feel better and support you in your healing, in getting stronger, in creating that safe, comforting space within yourself. Please do let us know how you’re doing and if you feel stuck or anything like that. Wishing you well, miyoid!
TeeParticipantDear NYC Artist,
in both cases, both of your uncle and your friend, you speak of failure:
Not speaking to him makes it awkward at times. I know I need to stay away but it just ultimately feels like a huge failure.
As for my friend, again, I feel feelings of failure.
Since your love and peace-making attempts failed, even though you’ve given your best, do you perhaps feel like a failure? If those people don’t change, do you see it as your own failure, your fault, your being “not good enough”, rather than ascribing it to their own limitations and their stubbornness?
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