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TeeParticipantDear Peter,
I didn’t understand why I was giving you the impression that the realizations and lettings go I experienced wasn’t complete or real. I know that wasn’t your intent but I felt that you were trying to push me back into re-analyses and put in doubt my experiences.
You yourself were talking about re-crossing the river, using the raft when it’s no longer needed, the temptation to go back and climb the mountain again, and the possibility that you might forget the moment of letting go. These metaphors made me think that you’re doubting your own experience of letting go.
When you were asked the question ‘how do you know when you have let go’ you avoided any personal information about the experiences that were related to that.
I talked about my healing process on the other threads. It was mostly related to inner child healing, which allowed me to re-experience the painful memory and give it a different ending, so to speak, so that I am no longer stuck in that particular childhood wound. But I didn’t intend to hide anything when answering your question: the reason I know that I’ve healed is because my life has changed as a result. So that would be the ultimate “proof”, I believe.
When I talked about my parents I opened the door for you to question my experience of letting go. I thought adding some personal information would help the point I was trying to make and that seems to have been a error.
In the posts where you talked about your parents, you also used the above metaphors, that might suggest a certain doubt on your part, that’s why I thought the two may be related.
TeeParticipantDear Sarasa,
no problem, glad to hear from you.
“I am a little confused how I feel about him”
If he were to admit his feelings for you (say in a hypothetical scenario), how would you feel? Would you reciprocate or there would be something standing in the way?
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
Nice. You focused on the outcome and avoided giving to much detail about which specific wounds you had to deal with. I see my error. Thanks
Not sure what you mean above – what error of yours do you see?
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
The question I asked about When does the seeker become a finder? How we can know for sure if we’ve forgiven and let go ? Was a question I was asking you. I have had my experience that answered that for me, which after failing badly to explain in words suspected such a experience was one of those that could disappear when ‘explained’.
I know that I’ve forgiven and let go (and healed the negative emotional experiences from my childhood) because my life is better as a result. I feel better about myself, have healthier relationships, my life has more purpose and meaning, etc. So there is a positive impact on my life.
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
yes, better to leave it because we do speak beside each other. You don’t want to talk about your personal experience, but about general concepts. I on the contrary tried to “interpret” your words and understand them in the context of what you might be experiencing emotionally, psychologically, in your life. But I respect that you don’t want to discuss your life, so I won’t be trying to interpret your words any more.
March 25, 2021 at 5:04 am in reply to: Confused between my past and the present… Wanna figure out the future. #376532
TeeParticipantDear Kitty, you’re welcome. If you want to share some more, please do so.
TeeParticipantDear Nar,
it’s very good to read from you again! You sound like you’ve been realizing so many things about your childhood, including the fact that you did experience abuse, even though you initially thought it was no big deal. It’s great you’re becoming aware of the ways you’ve been abused and controlled – it will make it easier for you to heal.
I too believe that change in your intrusive image could be a good sign – a sign that something has shifted in your subconscious, and from the way you speak about yourself, it’s a shift in the right direction. You’re now more aware of the fact that you were violated, that some of your mother’s behavior wasn’t loving, and probably this causes you to have images of being attacked and your life being threatened. But with therapy and further processing, there’s a high chance that this will shift again, once you realize you aren’t helpless anymore and can defend yourself. Just keep working on yourself, both on your own and in therapy.
It’s great you have support of your boyfriend as well, and that he’s someone who understands you and doesn’t judge you. That’s really important.
As for forgiveness, it’s said that by forgiving, we actually liberate ourselves, because we don’t keep blaming someone else for our misery. However, this doesn’t mean we’ll tolerate their abuse in the future. We put boundaries in place and protect ourselves, if we feel they might hurt us again.
I agree that anger can be a very useful emotion because it tells us when our integrity and well-being is violated. It’s a sign we need to protect ourselves, defend our interests, stand up for ourselves. It’s only destructive if we feel helpless to stand up for ourselves, and we keep blaming the other person, feeling trapped. Then it can happen that we overreact and say unwanted things, and even do things we wouldn’t like, in the heat of an argument. So my view is that anger can be destructive if we feel as a victim, if we feel trapped, and lash out in an unbalanced way. But otherwise, in can be healthy and useful.
March 25, 2021 at 2:51 am in reply to: Confused between my past and the present… Wanna figure out the future. #376521
TeeParticipantDear Kitty,
There are many uncertainties in your current situation, but what’s for sure is that neither Sid or Jake want to date till they enter their respective colleges. The big difference being that Sid doesn’t want to date at all until he finishes college, whereas Jake wants to, once he gets in. What is also sure is that Sid’s parents are strict and it appears he’s afraid of them more than he’s attracted to you, because he visited you only twice, even when you were in the same city.
If I understood well, you broke up with Sid mostly because of long-distance, i.e. mostly because of you because he’d be fine with long distance, since he wants to focus on his studies anyway, and dating isn’t his priority. Once, when you felt bad and needed his support, he even told you “we can’t do anything and we aren’t gonna die if we don’t meet”. This tells me that he isn’t that disturbed that the two of you aren’t together at the moment. He’s assuring you that you’ll be together after college, and in the meanwhile he seems pretty cool about you not being together. He’s even telling you about a girl he likes.
My impression is that you’re actually afraid that you’d lose both Sid and Jake because if you tell Sid about Jake, he’ll get angry and jealous (you said he was possessive in the past), and you might lose him forever. But I believe you might lose him anyway, because he doesn’t seem as attached to you as you are to him. Four years of college is a very long time, and in that time, both you and he might have multiple relationships. You’re young and so many things can change. So the fact that he’s telling you that you’ll be together later might be just something he’s telling you to make you feel better – unless he really has a strong intuition that the two of you are meant to be together. But if so, he wouldn’t be having crushes on other girls, I suppose.
What I am trying to say is that even though you believe Sid couldn’t live without you (“the thing is I really don’t want to break his heart by telling him about Jake”), I don’t think he would be that heart-broken as you believe he would. My impression is that you’re more invested in your relationship/friendship than he is.
So my suggestion is to take a look at what you want, and not worry so much about Sid, because Sid will most likely be fine. But will you be fine without him, that’s a question. Try to answer that question for yourself, honestly.
TeeParticipantDear Felix,
I know it’s hard for you right now, and as you said, your greatest problem is loneliness. I’ve tried to suggest a way how to alleviate the pain of loneliness (via the inner child healing), but it seems you don’t resonate with that approach at the moment. That’s fine. But let me ask you a question: What makes you believe that you won’t be able to find a companion in the near future, specially after the covid restrictions are lifted? You sound like you’ll stay alone forever, and that there’s simply no solution. You sound desperate. In reality, it doesn’t have to be like that, there are many ways to meet women. But in your mind, it seems almost impossible.
“All my friends are enjoying their lives with their wives and children, spending time in the backyards and traveling the world, and I’ve lost everything.”
You’re focusing on what you’ve lost (and granted, you did lose a lot), but what about the hope for the future? The things you can gain in the future? It appears it’s very hard for you to trust that things can get better.
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
you’re asking how we can know for sure if we’ve forgiven and let go (How do you know if you have really forgiven, let go, moved forward…?).
For that purpose, I’m including what you said about letting go:
My parents grew up in the 40’s and 50’s were it was parents calling to do the “carrying”. I knew they would be horrified to have me “carry” them. Letting go of that was something I could do for them. That was the realization. I might not have been able to let go for myself but I could for them. That was what they needed from me, even while they were alive, and that was how I could, would, honor them including the disappointments and hurt we gave each other.
So what changed after this letting go? Everything… nothing… The ‘mountain is back to being a mountain’. There is temptation to go back and climb it again.. the moment of letting go can be intoxicating, and what if I forget…
Earlier I was talking about the temptation of going back, re-crossing the river, over and over again to make sure, make perfect, to recreate the ‘high’ and or peace of that moment of ‘knowing’ that is beyond knowing.
From your words I gather that you’re asking whether you’ve truly let go of guilt that you’ve felt regarding your parents. You had an experience – perhaps a peak experience or a realization – where you felt like you’ve let go. It gave you a “high” and a sense of peace. It was intoxicating and you felt good in that moment. What has changed for you after that experience? “Everything… nothing”. My take on that is that you had a realization – an insight that changed how you look at things, and even how you feel for a brief moment, but on a longer run, your life and your emotional experience haven’t changed much. You tend to “forget” the “intoxicating moment” and are tempted to go back to cross the river again – to go back into your old patterns, your old feeling of guilt, perhaps, forgetting that you’ve already let go of it once.
This is how I am interpreting your words. Feel free to correct me if I misunderstood them.
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
I am glad you don’t mind exploring some of these issues further.
Earlier I was talking about the temptation of going back, re-crossing the river, over and over again to make sure, make perfect, to recreate the ‘high’ and or peace of that moment of ‘knowing’ that is beyond knowing. A Temptation to to carry the raft after it has done its job and not trust the learning that took place in its building. I have gotten trapped in that cycle which has seldom been helpful.
Could you give an example of you going back and re-crossing the river, and carrying the raft after it’s no longer needed? What’s a raft for you – is it a tool, like a particular spiritual technique? You use a lot of metaphors, and I’d need to first understand the meaning, before I can try to give you an answer…
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
it was just my opinion, based on the way you’re expressing yourself here, on this forum. I don’t know anything about you and your life. You and only you know that. You know if you’re happy and fulfilled, or there are areas that bother you. If, as you say, you experienced lack of emotional nurturance and intimacy with your parents – and this wound hasn’t been healed – you would likely have issues in your adult relationships too. If you don’t experience guilt and disappointment any more, and you have satisfactory, fulfilling relationships – I am happy for you!
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
My 12 year old self would not have been able to understand that or articulate that tension of being disappointed and hurt by those that cared for him and suspecting he was also disappointing and hurting them.
So yes there was guilt and the dread of not being enough.
The child always blames themselves if they don’t receive love and appreciation from their parents. The child feels unlovable, and not being good enough. That’s the first wound and the first, unconscious conclusion that the child makes about themselves: “I am not good enough, something’s wrong with me.” Then later, as we’re getting a little older, we start blaming our parents for not giving us what we need. That’s why since you teens, it appears you were blaming both yourself and them: “Its hard to separate, this failing others and others failing us.”
That this is a realty of all relationships would not have been understood. My parents were wonderful providers for my physicals needs however we struggled with communicating and expressing our emotional needs. Not uncommon for many families.
Yes indeed. Quite a few of us on this forum have a similar experience of having been given everything materially, but the emotional part was lacking. Your parents weren’t worse than others, they were doing the best they could. And yet, what I am saying, is that each child has certain emotional needs, which if not met, cause problems in our adult life. It doesn’t mean we should keep blaming our parents for having been deprived, but it does mean we need to heal those emotional wounds, if we want to have a happy and fulfilling life.
I’m not sure why you assume the experiences hasn’t been processed?
Well, if you want my honest answer, it’s because of the way you express yourself. You’re expressing yourself in philosophical, lofty terms, which are sometimes hard to follow. I’ve checked your two threads from 4 years ago, and they sounded much more down to earth and easier to follow. At that time you felt disillusioned about people’s ability to change. But you sounded more present, expressing your honest resignation, or disappointment. Since then, it appears you’ve become more philosophical and “esoteric”, and it’s usually a sign of going into the intellect to try to explain away one’s problems and soothe the pain. I believe that the pain is still there, but now you’re trying to rationalize it. But this is just my observation, it doesn’t mean I am right.
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
I am sorry that both your parents passed away. What I am reading from your words is that you felt guilty for disappointing them (“The inevitable experience of being disappointed but more so the fear of disappointing”, and “honor them including the disappointments and hurt we gave each other”).
It appears you couldn’t let go of the feeling of guilt for them “carrying you”, but then with the help of therapy, you managed to let go. Am I understanding this right? Could you talk a bit more about your guilt for not “carrying them” – is it that you didn’t help them enough, you weren’t there for them when they needed you?
This feeling of guilt sounds like the central theme for you. You say the disappointments were mutual, and that you were all “idiots”, even though you – both you and your parents – tried your best to be “reasonable good person to those we cared about”.
So they tried their best, and you tried too, but it didn’t work. Although you understand it and have forgiven yourself and them somewhat, the injury has nevertheless happened and needs to be processed. That’s the wound on the foot we were talking about…
For that wounded inner child that still exists. I still see him standing alone on the school ground vowing never to let others get to close to hurt him, hurt me.
This is the protector part in you vowing to never allow your wounded inner child to be hurt again. You closing your heart is a consequence of that original wound – of not having received the love and care you needed. And perhaps that’s why you later closed your heart for your parents too. Now this wound needs to be healed…
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This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by
Tee.
TeeParticipantDear Felix,
I am sorry about your childhood, you’ve been through a lot. It’s not easy to be ignored by your own father, and then to experience something similar by your step-father too. It seems you needed to “toughen up” pretty early, since you were on your own already at 16. Life has been throwing you curve balls already since that time… And although you say about your family that “Over the years, through ups and down, we stuck together“, I imagine that emotionally, you felt alone. Perhaps your parents helped you when things got really tough, but other than that, you were alone and scared, as you said.
Yes, title kid in me is scared, but just like Jordan Peterson asks in his book, we have to be our own parents sometimes and treat ourselves as if we’re our own parents.
The little boy just wants to be loved.
It’s good you realize it. And that you’re in touch with him. When you talk about being lonely to the point that it hurts (“I crave physical and emotional connection to the point where it makes me psychologically and physically ill, and “I crave intimacy and closeness like drug addicts and alcoholics crave their vices.”), the pain is so big exactly because of your wounded inner child. Those are his words, his pain and his craving. He’s telling you that the pain of loneliness is enormous, because it felt enormous to him as a child.
Now you’d need to be a loving parent to that boy, be there for him and soothe him. Make him feel that he belongs. Alleviate his pain. Once you do that, I am almost sure that you’ll start seeing your current loneliness differently too. It won’t feel like an impossible burden and almost a death sentence, but something that can be changed. It will become much more manageable and much less threatening.
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This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by
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