January 14, 2022 at 9:24 am #391298
I would just like to add something: it’s good that you wrote a text to your sister, telling her how much her words hurt you:
she kept writing but there was nt single positive word from her…i couldnt stop my tears i couldnt sleep all night bcz these words were so hurtful .i kept weeping all night …and than in the morning i wrote her huge text that how ur words made me feel ,how much i was hurted to know ,how she thinks ,feel and represent me infront of anyone …
Has she responded to that?
Also, your husband is right when he told her that she should be proud of you for making it this far all alone in a foreign country, instead of scolding you and telling you that you never achieved anything in Germany. You achieved a lot: you are studying and working in parallel, you have 1-1.5 years till your diploma, and even if it’s not a medical doctor diploma or a physiotherapy degree, it’s something you like and hopefully will give you a good and satisfactory career (what are you studying, if I may ask?). So you did well, Peace, you can be proud of yourself!January 14, 2022 at 4:26 pm #391313
”Has she responded to that?”
ya she responded.she said she dint say anything wrong .and she keep asking “ what wrong did I say??” several times..
As u asked what I n studying.so I m studying (Medizinische Informatik) Medical IT it’s also known as Health care informatic.
it’s like 80 pro cent Informatics and 20 % medical .and I m more interested in IT side like doing programming stuff..January 14, 2022 at 4:28 pm #391314
I ll reply if ur previews post tomorrow in the morning here
good nightJanuary 15, 2022 at 12:29 am #391320
it’s like 80 pro cent Informatics and 20 % medical .and I m more interested in IT side like doing programming stuff..
Good! If you are more interested in programming and the IT side, and not so much in the medical part, it means it’s a better career choice for you than being a medical doctor (or a physiotherapist). You made a good choice, following your own preferences!
ya she responded.she said she dint say anything wrong .and she keep asking “ what wrong did I say??” several times..
It’s a pity she doesn’t see how hurtful her words are… Also, when your husband told her she should be proud of you, she asked why should she be proud of you since you didn’t become that what she expected of you (medical doctor or physiotherapist). It tells me she has very little empathy and understanding for you, truly believing that you shouldn’t have a say in what you do with your life…January 15, 2022 at 7:17 am #391322
“It’s a pity she doesn’t see how hurtful her words are”
No, she was very confident that whatever she said was not wrong .inspite of feeling bad about what she said to my husband about me or how miserable I was feeling after reading her those messages .she blamed my husband that, he might have done a manipulated commentary in front of me and started calling him “ill-manner “to share the chat with me.
according to her, it was wrong of my husband to show their chats with me, not what she wrote in it…
and she again texted my husband, saying how ill-mannered he is to break privacy. and its “women habits ” and she started to guilt-trip him by saying, she used to complain about such things in front of my other brother in law but they never shared this with their husbands, but you (my husband) did…and how my husband damaged his reputation in front of her in just 24 hours.
my husband didn’t take it very well, he was very stressed. and he regretted showing me her texts.
I feel like she is facing some mental health issues. as she is not sorry for anything but starts to justify her actions…I don’t knowJanuary 15, 2022 at 8:16 am #391324
Dear Anita and Teak,
If after you pay your financial debt to your sister, she still tells people that “she has sacrificed a lot for me to support me and to send me abroad“- then show the people the evidence that you indeed paid her back all that you owe her.
even if I pay her debt but still i will be a villain in her eyes because I dint care for my family and dint feed their racist opinions which they are proud of for years and they have their pride in it that they are not of mixed race and its an insult to them .i have another sis who supported me but it feels like they don’t want me to marry to him bcz my sis told them “ppl laugh at them that I went to study and I got married to a lower class”..and she suggested me to first complete your study and get a job than talk to my elder sis about marriage …i got a bit convinced,I thought it seems fair I will complete my study and than i won’t accept any emotionally blackmailing from them..
but my husband said ,this is not the case ,they will always make this a problem and these are only excuses because they don’t like him …he even ready to pay their debts …but i don’t want him to do this ..i ll do it as i get my professional job..but it meant a lot to me to know he is so supportive 🙂
yesterday i got a voice msg frm my sis that she asked her teacher ( who tells about people future ) , I have no idea who this person is, told her that
“try to avoid this or you guys(my family) situation be like beggars at the end, this guy is not in her (my)destiny, God doesn’t want it .if they(me+my husband) force it then this marriage will not work out, he added starting 2 years will be great but after that everything will be messed up and their marriage will break in 6 years ”
i don’t understand it ….why will the situation of my family be like beggar by marrying my husband? i m already in his destiny and we are married btw …ya ..but my family doesnt know…January 15, 2022 at 9:03 am #391327AnonymousGuest
You shared over time that your family is Muslim and Indian. Your sister whom we are discussing is the eldest sister in your family.
A Muslim website, Azislam. com/ rights of older siblings in islam, reads (the italics is my addition):
“In Islam and also other culture in the world, especially in Asian countries, older siblings hold more responsibility toward their younger siblings. They should love and care for their younger siblings, put aside their selfishness and put the younger first. In return, the younger siblings should respect the older”-
Did you notice, Peace, that your eldest sister, according to Islam in Asian countries, such as India, is supposed to love and care for you, put aside her selfishness and put you first!?
And did you notice, that in return for her love and care and putting aside her selfishness, you should respect her? (But if she is selfish, if she puts herself first, and she doesn’t really love and care for you…. what is there to return)?
More from the website: “Older siblings can make us feel safe because they protect us” – your eldest sister sent you, a pretty, young woman of about 21, to live by herself, all alone, in a faraway country, while (1) You did not have the ability to protect yourself from men’s aggressive sexual advances, and (2) There was no relative or an older person, approved by your sister, or otherwise, to protect from men’s sexual advances.
In a previous thread under a different account, your screen name there was Princess123, you shared that in April 2018, at 21 or 22, you were living in Germany all alone, without protection (“I live here without my family or anyone else”). You were a student, working part-time. You lived close to, or in the midst of the large Muslim community in Germany, many of which were refuges.
Living on your own, a young woman in the midst of men, you had many relationships in quick succession (“I was the one who was having a lot of relationship one after one“, quote from this thread, March 15, 2021). Back in 2018, you had a 2.5-month-old relationship with a man who at first treated you “like a princess”, but then acted jealous and controlling. By August 2018, you had a 3-months old new relationship with a Muslim refuge 10 years older than you, a man who was “really kind and loves me so much”. You referred to the relationship as a “very healthy relationship”, but it didn’t not proceed to be healthy as he verbally and sexually abused you: “(he) used to do some sexually cruel things… I used to scream because of … the pain… I used to tell him stop doing it, but he used to say: no, it doesn’t hurt”.
He called you a prostitute because you accepted money and material gifts from him, and he wanted it all back, “demanding 2400 euro, including the cost of the Mac laptop which he bought for me… and the ticket he bought for me… 1600 euro… he started to call me a prostitute and said that I’ll bring customers for sex“. That relationship ended this way: “I ended up financially broke, depressed, failed in exams which led to visa problem all in one time“.
Back in 2018, you shared about a male friend of your boyfriend: “He is always there when I need him, when I need help, money“. At one point, he pressured you to have sex with him, and you were confused: “I’m just confused, this person said he really likes me and loves me, and planning to marry me, but I feel like all he wants from me is sex??… Or am I only judging him??”
Why am I bringing back all these painful experiences? Because they clearly indicate that (1) Your eldest sister did NOT protect you. You could have died from either a sexually transmitted disease or from sexual/ physical violence in the midst of a refuge community with no one to protect you!!!
(2) Your eldest sister spent some money on you, but not enough and not for long; working part time you didn’t make enough money, and you accepted money and material goods from men to whom you were not married, and with whom you had sex, and so, in practice you exchanged sex for money. Your sister did not protect you from this degradation and danger!
(3) You were not mentally able to evaluate men and situations correctly: “I feel like all he wants from me is sex??… Or am I only judging him??“, and therefore, you were not able to respond to men and situations in ways that will protect yourself. Your eldest sister sent an unprepared young woman to life on her own.
Fast forward to the present, January 2022, you say that you are finally in a relationship with and married to a good man who respects you. Please do not give up on a good man because your selfish, unloving eldest sister (who sent you to a new country unprotected), is throwing temper tantrums.
Your husband is there to protect you, isn’t he? Your sister did not. She has no right to interfere with your life!
Now that I refreshed my memory, I don’t know if you owe your eldest sister, or any other family member any money. What I am certain of is that other than money, you owe them nothing.
Having refreshed my memory, I really can’t stand the idea that you will continue to give your eldest sister any importance. What she says to you has no value because she did not do her eldest sisterly duty of protecting you and to caring for you. Ending all contact with her is best.
Just now, I came across your two most recent posts in which you shared about your eldest sister blaming and stressing your husband (who is kind enough to suggest paying their money back): “she blamed my husband… calling him ‘ill-mannered’… she again texted my husband, saying how ill-mannered he is… and she started to guilt-trip him… My husband didn’t take it very well, he was very stressed” – it is clear to me, Peace, that your duty as a wife of a good man, is to protect your husband from your eldest sister (and from any other family member who disrespects and mistreats your husband and yourself) by blocking them from having access to you and to your husband.
No access= No abuse.
Is what I wrote in this post all correct and true, or am I missing something that would invalidate my conclusion stated right above?
January 15, 2022 at 11:29 am #391337
- This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by .
your eldest sister is really on the offensive, isn’t she? She even engaged a fortune teller to confirm her stance and convince you not to marry your husband. Funny, because if this fortune teller were any good, he would have “seen” that you are already married, wouldn’t he? Or he doesn’t even exist, and it’s just another desperate attempt of your sister to prevent your marriage… whatever it is, don’t trust of word of it – it’s a scam!
even if I pay her debt but still i will be a villain in her eyes because I dint care for my family and dint feed their racist opinions which they are proud of for years and they have their pride in it that they are not of mixed race and its an insult to them
You’re seeing it right! Your sister won’t change her mind about your husband… she is convinced in the “righteousness” of her racist beliefs. She also fears public disgrace if it turns out that such an outspoken “pure caste” proponent allowed her younger sister to marry into a lower caste. She is unfortunately driven by these narrow-minded chauvinist beliefs, so much so that she is willing to invent some fake prophecy, just to stop you…
and she suggested me to first complete your study and get a job than talk to my elder sis about marriage …
It seems your other sister (and you too) believe that you need your eldest sister’s permission to get married. Is that right?
i got a bit convinced,I thought it seems fair I will complete my study and than i won’t accept any emotionally blackmailing from them..
Your eldest sister will never agree to this marriage. Seeing that she uses every means to stop you, and that she has no empathy and understanding for you, but only cares about herself and “what will the people say” – I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that she would soften over time. I think she would keep emotionally blackmailing you and trying all sorts of things to stop you, even after you graduate.
but my husband said ,this is not the case ,they will always make this a problem and these are only excuses because they don’t like him …
Unfortunately, this seems to be true…
She can only emotionally blackmail you if you have a weak spot and believe her accusations (that you are a bad person, that you’ve achieved nothing, that you are selfish, immature, a child etc). Also, she can blackmail you if you believe that you need her permission and blessing to get married.
But if you realize that you are an adult, that you know what’s best for you – and that you are a good person too – it will be easier for you to withstand the emotional blackmailing and accusations.
Also, if you stop hoping for your sister’s approval, you will be much freer to live your life as you please, and as you know is right for you.
What do you think?September 3, 2023 at 2:31 pm #421783
Dear Anita ,
welcome back to the forum 🙂
i am glad you are back 🙂 i missed you …How are you doing
I visit this thread often to reread our conversation it makes me validate my feelings and stops me from being gaslighted by anyone or my own self,it solves all my self-doubts for the choices I made in my life.
I would like to add to the story where i left and what i experienced further with my life after all the decisions I took, . I want to continue this thread so that in future i can come again and refresh my memory to the all situation I faced ..because I see myself losing the sight of reality over time but this thread and our conversation remind me of reality. and I am thankful of you to for helping me go through all those tough times and decisions.September 3, 2023 at 2:48 pm #421784
Dear Teak ,
i was following your other posts i came to know you are having problems with your eyes and some other symptoms . i hope you are doing fine now .
get well soon 🙂
PeaceSeptember 3, 2023 at 11:31 pm #421789
oh wow, it’s been a long time! Good to hear from you! And thank you for inquiring and wishing me well.
Yeah, 2023 has been a very challenging year for me health-wise because my health problems (which came out of the blue) limited me quite a bit and didn’t want to go away. They’ve subsided now a little, thank God, but a new issue came up with my eyes. I went to the doctor, got some eye drops and am hoping it would heal sooner than later. So yeah… this year has been emotionally and mentally challenging, and I am quite exhausted, hoping for a respite.
How are you? How is your marriage, your studies?September 3, 2023 at 11:33 pm #421790anitaParticipant
I can’t believe that you- that anyone- has been following the activity on the forums and cares whether I was here or not. It is late Sun night here. I will review our past communication and reply further Mon morning, in about 7 hours from now.
anitaSeptember 4, 2023 at 12:51 am #421792
I’m Glad to learn that your health concerns are improving!
Regarding your eye issues, I’m curious if they might be linked to an allergic reaction. Strangely, I also experienced eye problems for the first time in my life this year. After consulting a specialist, I was prescribed eye drops and diagnosed with an allergic reaction as the root cause. The specialist also mentioned that it might recur periodically.
and how is going your life?
thanks for asking “How are you? How is your marriage, your studies?”
By the grace of god, my health is good.
My studies are going well. I’ve been doing a (paid) part-time Internship as a software engineer for a year now, while also attending classes. This will earn me a diploma that’s recognized in Germany and Europe. It’s helping me learn and gain experience as a programmer, which I really enjoy. my studies going good few subjects left this semester and from next semester i would begin with seminar and projects.
My marriage is going great. My husband is caring , loving and respects me for who I am. He listens to me and takes my concerns seriously.he is decent person ,doesnt play games or does things which hurts us both . we enjoy being togather and love teasing each other all the time . This positive environment motivated me to do well in my studies and internship. Having his support is a big help.September 4, 2023 at 8:04 am #421800
Dear Teak and Anita,
Around 1 year and 7 months ago, I believed my family’s main issue with my husband was his caste. However, I’m now uncertain if that was the sole reason for their rejection.
Approximately 2 years ago, I shared here that my family was concerned about the significant investment they had made in my education. They worried that getting married might jeopardize their efforts and the money they spent on my education. They also believed I owed them money for the expenses they incurred when I came here, which @anita suggested calculating and repaying. This amounted to approximately 8500-9000 euros.
A few months later, around the end of February and the beginning of March 2022, another sister informed me that she had convinced my eldest sister, who no longer had any problem with my husband. However, they continued to advise me to reconsider my decision and take more time to evaluate my husband.
My husband and I decided to wait until I secured a job or stable income before approaching my family. We believed this was a logical step. I put in a lot of effort and secured a 5-year of contract in which starting with 2.5 years of internship with the possibility of converting it from part-time to full-time after completing my diploma. This made me financially independent and allowed me to gain valuable skills and experience. Additionally, the flexibility of working from home reduced stress.
For the past 1.5 years, I’ve been financially supporting my mother’s treatment and expenses, as well as partially contributing to my 36-year-old brother’s household bills.
During this time, something important happened in my family. My sister, who is married and has a daughter, found out she had a brain tumor in its early stages. This news made me very worried and unable to sleep. Our family’s money situation was not good, except for my older sister who helped pay for my education. Because of my sister’s serious illness, I had to pay for almost all of her medical treatment, about 85-90% of it. To get the money for this, I had to sell some things I owned, use up my savings, and my husband gave me 1000 euros. In my country, we don’t have good health insurance, so we had to pay for all the medical expenses ourselves.
About three months later, my only brother, who studied law and was working as a lawyer, wanted to get married as soon as possible. But he didn’t have enough money for it. So, my older sister, who had already helped pay for my education, took on the responsibility of paying for his wedding. She asked me to help too. I knew deep down that if my brother got married, he wouldn’t be able to manage the expenses for his new family because he usually didn’t take financial responsibility, as I mentioned before. So, I contributed about 40% of the total cost. I used the money for different things related to the wedding, like doing some repairs to the house and other preparations.
Dec 2022-Jan 2023:
In December 2022 and January 2023, something else happened. Two weeks after my brother’s wedding, my eldest sister, who usually communicates with me indirectly through another sister, asked me to contribute about 700 euros to help the second sister. She had received a government job offer but needed to pay money upfront as a kind of bribe. This second sister was already married. I paid half of the amount, and my eldest sister, who is around 48 years old, covered the other half.
Now, in May 2023, I’m still contributing to household expenses. My brother lives with his wife and my mom. Even though both of them have jobs, I’m the one paying the bills. About 3-4 months after my brother’s wedding, he asked me for 100 euros. He needed it to take his wife and my mom to another city for her exam because she wanted to become a commissioner. He wanted me to pay for their trip because he was taking my mom with them. Even though they both work, I cover all their bills, and I take care of my mom’s expenses too. I told him that 100 euros seemed like a lot, and he should ask for less if he needed it. But he explained that it would cover travel, food, and hotel expenses for all three of them, and it amounted to 100 euros. He even said he would get the money from a friend if I didn’t give it to him. Eventually, I didn’t give him the full 100 euros. Later, I found out that he took money from someone else and left my mom alone during the trip.
When I calculate all the money I sent home in just one year, it’s almost more than 7000 euros. And I still haven’t repaid the money I owe them, which is almost 8500 euros.
Just two months ago, I asked my sister how she wanted me to repay the money I owed her. I asked if she preferred I give her gold or pay her with money. I offered to pay the entire debt of around 8500 euros in three installments, and I was ready to send the first installment of about 2000 euros. When I asked her, she told me that she had spoken to our eldest sister, and they both decided they didn’t need the money right now. Instead, she mentioned that she was planning to buy a house and wanted my help with it. I owed this sister around 1700 euros, and the rest of the debt was to our eldest sister.
The next day, she messaged me again. She said that our eldest sister had made some dresses for my wedding, which she claimed were worth around 2000 euros (this seemed unbelievable, almost too good to be true). However, she said our eldest sister didn’t want money for the dresses at the moment. Instead, she explained that our eldest sister owed her husband around 1000 euros because she had spent all his money on my brother’s wedding. She sounded stressed and worried, saying she was scared of her husband because of the money she owed him. She asked me in a soft, pleading tone if I could send 1000 euros to help her with this situation.
During this time, it became increasingly evident to me that the debt I owed to my family would never be settled. It seemed that no matter what efforts I made, the debt would neither be acknowledged nor accurately calculated or repaid.
Why did I share all of this with you now? Even though they said they were okay with the proposal, and my sister mentioned she gave dresses worth 2000 euros for my wedding, things took a bad turn, and they caused a big, ugly problem.
continue….September 4, 2023 at 11:06 am #421805anitaParticipant
You are welcome and I appreciate your welcome and kind words. We first communicated in April 2018 (more than five years ago) in a thread under the screen name Princess123. Back then, at the age of 21 or 22, you were living in Germany, a part of the Muslim community, far away from your large Muslim family in India and away from a sister who lives in Europe (“I live here without my family or anyone else”). The following is what you shared from April 2018 to Jan 15, 2022 (the last time you posted in your current thread, more than a year and seven months ago, which was yesterday):
Your travel to Germany and the first year of your studies and living in Germany were financed by two or more of your seven older sisters, primarily by the oldest: “My sis was spending more money on our (my and other siblings’) education. She wanted us to have a good career, and when I was in college she decided she will send me abroad for studies… She sold her Savings (Gold ) and also my other sister contributed with their Savings , taking loans.. as I landed here I had enough.. money for my first year“.
You were also financed at times by (1) a rich cousin (“he flirts sometimes but was the one who sent me money… he sent me 1000 euros last month.. very rich cousin (who) likes me and financially helps me when I ask him“), (2) a live-in (now ex) boyfriend, ten years your senior, one who abused you sexually and emotionally, (about whom you wrote in January 2019, that he was “demanding 2400 euro, including the cost of the Mac laptop which he bought for me… and the ticket he bought for me… 1600 euro“), (3) your ex-boyfriend’s friend of 15 years: “He is always there when I need him, when I need help, money or emotional support“.
You were working part-time in Germany, while attending university, and sometimes you sent money to your family in India: “I started working here, doing student jobs: waitress, working in bakery, or (in) production companies (As I learned German language and I am advanced in it, I started getting better jobs), so I finance myself and sometimes my family by sending money to my mom or sis“. You also sent money for a while to a long-distance boyfriend, now ex.
Following a series of relationships with abusive men, you met a man whom you dated since May 2021 about whom you shared back in July 21, 2021: “He is a great guy …he is the person with whom I’m having a healthy relationship, who listens to me, cares for me, doesn’t react when something doesn’t go according to plan ,respects me and respects my space and boundary”. But your older sister advised you against marrying him (“she.. advised me to not marrying him just because of caste“, “because his mom also looked like mixed African“), and proceeded to harass you, creating disturbing drama in your life, emotionally manipulating you, guilt-tripping you in regard to the financial help she provided for you in the past
On Oct 26, 2021, you shared: “this inner child of me doesn’t want any emotional validation from (elder sister)… I shouldn’t be allowing her or anyone to emotionally destroy me anymore… I don’t need validation from anyone and not from people who hurt me“.
On Oct 31, 2021, you shared: “At this stage of my life.. I want no drama in my life and no emotional manipulation from anyone.. I want to have a peace of mind and don’t want to be mentally disturbed“.
You married him in Germany without your family’s knowledge (“We did Islamic marriage here and waiting for our documents“, Dec 10, 2021) while your sister continued to harass you.
I submitted a detail, long post to you on Jan 15, 2021, which ended with this advice: “It is clear to me, Peace, that your duty as a wife of a good man, is to protect your husband from your eldest sister (and from any other family member who disrespects and mistreats your husband and yourself) by blocking them from having access to you and to your husband. No access= No abuse. Is what I wrote in this post all correct and true, or am I missing something that would invalidate my conclusion stated right above?”.
You never replied to the above, and yesterday, Sept 3, 2023, at the age of 27, you posted your gracious post, wanting to continue your thread. You shared today that you owe your two older sisters “approximately 8500-9000 euros“- I see that you did not accept my suggestion of Jan 15, 2022 that you don’t owe them any money and that you have no more contact with them.
“For the past 1.5 years, I’ve been financially supporting my mother’s treatment and expenses, as well as partially contributing to my 36-year-old brother’s household bills… I had to pay for almost all of her medical treatment, about 85-90% of it. To get the money for this, I had to sell some things I owned, use up my savings, and my husband gave me 1000 euros… About three months later… I contributed about 40% of the total cost (for your 36-year old older brother’s wedding)… Two weeks after my brother’s wedding, my eldest sister, who usually communicates with me indirectly through another sister, asked me to contribute about 700 euros to help the second sister… About 3-4 months after my brother’s wedding, he asked me for 100 euros… When I calculate all the money I sent home in just one year, it’s almost more than 7000 euros. And I still haven’t repaid the money I owe them, which is almost 8500 euros“-
– I disagree, if I may: you paid 7,000 euros out of the 8,500 euros that you believe that you owe your family.
“Just two months ago, I asked my sister how she wanted me to repay the money I owed her. I asked if she preferred I give her gold or pay her with money. I offered to pay the entire debt of around 8500 euros in three installments, and I was ready to send the first installment of about 2000 euros. When I asked her, she told me that she had spoken to our eldest sister, and they both decided they didn’t need the money right now. Instead, she mentioned that she was planning to buy a house and wanted my help with it. I owed this sister around 1700 euros, and the rest of the debt was to our eldest sister“-
– seems to me that your sisters view you as a bank account, something to draw money out whenever they need or want the money. I don’t think that you owe them any money, but if you owed your family any money, it is not a debt to individual members of your family, but to your family as a whole, because finances are shared in your family. Therefore, if you had a debt, it is now a debt of 1,500 euros (8,500-7.000= 1,500 euros).
“During this time, it became increasingly evident to me that the debt I owed to my family would never be settled. It seemed that no matter what efforts I made, the debt would neither be acknowledged nor accurately calculated or repaid“-
– I agree with an edit: the debt that you believe you owe your family will never be paid. The reason that they will keep asking you for money is that they consider you a source of income.: not a person, but a bank account from which they want to withdraw whenever they need or want to.
“Why did I share all of this with you now? Even though they said they were okay with the proposal, and my sister mentioned she gave dresses worth 2000 euros for my wedding, things took a bad turn, and they caused a big, ugly problem. But Why??“-
– what I understood from this quote, which is at the end of your most recent post, is that your sisters said that they were okay with having a Muslim wedding between you and your (legal husband, in Germany) partner for no other reason but to motivate you to keep sending money to the family in India. What I didn’t understand is what you are referring to, specifically, by “a bad turn.. ugly problem“: what is the bad turn, specifically? What are the ugly problems?,
and what it is that you are asking: why.. what?