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Being better at accepting depression

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  • #220523
    noname
    Participant

    Thank you for reading my post and your wishes for me.

    I hope this thread hasn’t become too repetitive, something i struggle with alot in therapy too, feeling as if i come in with the same problem and i don’t go anywhere with it, or as if i’m being disrespectful somehow by not always acting on your suggestions, not healing fast enough despite having help. my therapist tells me all the time progress and healing is not linear but receiving this much empathy and attention feels very uncomfortable to me. I’m beginning to feel like a burden to you even though you’ve given no such indication. Again, i know that’s my childhood pain relived, but i just dont always know what to do about it, empathizing with myself continues to be a difficult task.

    I too feel worth doing for the benefit of others. Tonight i’m cooking for friends because one just graduated college, my friends girlfriend just bough a house, and my other friend shes just been good to me this past month, so i thought an act of gratitude for them would be a nice thing to do. I think i have to remind myself that i am a useful friend from time to time just so i don’t fall into those feelings of worthlessness, this is why i help so much. But as we’ve discussed before helping others doesn’t always do the trick for me either.

    I hate that i place so much value on physical touch, but it hurts not to be touched and openly held but a few times a year at most. I never know when any relief is coming my way. And since i quit smoking the urge is even worse i cant easily suppress my attraction to women like before and i dont want to “hit on” anyone out of fear of being disrespectful, online dating is a complete fail for me, and being a black male im very cautious about even looking at a woman at all out of fear of being called out for harassment. I feel getting my physical needs met is hopeless. So if you have any suggestions on how to live without affection or physical intimacy i would appreciate it. I tried telling myself, that one day the pain will stop when im dead, but it’s uncomfortable trying to cope between now and death. (im not saying or implying im suicidal)

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by noname.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by noname.
    #220545
    Prash
    Participant

    Dear noname,

    Just as a side note, the benefit of others is a side kick to the primary benefit for ourself. When one trick doesn’t work, then the method is to look into the bag for more tricks. Always keep looking for those small and big things that add to our feeling of self worth. So when one doesn’t work, the other is always there.

    Healing completely takes time and there is no sense of disrespect that is felt at all.

    The need to be touched and held is a universal need. Working on building self worth seems a useful alternative till that need is met. How about a small exercise of actively looking for one thing that you feel worthy about and noting it down? The age old voice will like to think otherwise but you keep telling that voice – “thank you for being there but sorry please do not disturb me now as I am looking for one thing that I am worthy about today. After I find that I will hear, but may or may not listen to you”.

    Take care

    #220565
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    I will respond to your two recent posts part by part:

    Regarding honesty, “I see (mother) as a person who plays the role of victim. Which I think can be manipulative”. Her repeated, ongoing, lifetime message in playing victim is that she deserves empathy, not you. This is dishonest regardless of her awareness of what she did and is still doing. Dishonesty is not reserved only to the fully aware.

    “In regard to women I would like to be … willing to take a risk and get hurt”- minimize the risk by taking the time to get to know a woman well enough before becoming involved with her.

    “I’ve never felt comfortable relying on anyone but myself”- because as a child you had no one to rely on and had to be the one your mother relied on (take care of your mother, was your mother’s message as well as your father’s).

    “When someone stands me up or cheats on me I try to respectfully let them know I am hurt without shaming them, which I struggle with now… I would just like to stop handling so poorly”- it will take minimizing the chances of being cheated by getting to know a woman first, it will take pausing before automatically reacting, and it will take you processing the fact that you were cheated on by your mother who took you away from the center of your life, placing herself there.

    “I don’t understand how to help myself feel worthy”- a PTSD man in safety feels terrified as  if  he is in a war zone. A person angry following a misinterpretation of something they heard is sure that another offended them. You feel unworthy even though you are worthy. For the PTSD man the war experience gets reactivated in safety. For you the unworthy experience of childhood  gets activated and reactivated in adulthood, away from your parents.

    “I hope this thread hasn’t become too repetitive… feeling as if I come in with the same problem and I don’t go anywhere”- it may be helpful for you to re-read this very post I am typing to you before responding, consider things deeper than you did before. I do get frustrated sometimes when what I put time and effort into gets ignored.

    “this is why I help so much. But as we’ve discussed before helping others doesn’t always do the trick for me either”- doesn’t always suggests that sometimes helping other does the trick. But not true: helping others never did the trick of changing your core belief and never will.

    “if you have any suggestions on how to live without affection or physical intimacy I would appreciate it”- no reason to live without. No way every woman in the world is unloving, dishonest, and so forth. What you need is there for you, available. When you are able and willing to see that your mother didn’t love you and cheated you out of ..you, then you will be able to not see your mother in every other woman.

    anita

     

    #220571
    noname
    Participant

    I have re read this entire thread twice this week and usually ‘re read your posts at least 2-3 times. Sometimes it takes time to sink in. Sometimes an entire week before I get it. Honestly I haven’t had a lot of time with it being the end of the semester this past week. But after today I’m done with school and work for a couple weeks, so I’m taking the time to take care of myself and ‘re read this thread again. I will respond to your past few posts later today hopefully, but I don’t want you to think I’m not grateful at all. I even thought to myself I wish I knew where Anita was so I could send her some kind of gift to show my appreciation (I know thats not appropriate) but I can’t even express to you how appreciative I really am. Just know I still live by words you wrote me in threads over a year ago. Thank you anita

    #220585
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    You are welcome. You thought of sending me a gift, how very kind, and precious.

    I gave you the example of a PTSD person believing and feeling he is in danger when it is not true that he is in danger. Same with you, believing and feeling you are unworthy even though it is not true. It is as simple as that.

    Problem is our feelings are very convincing, and if it wasn’t for the severe injury in childhood, your feelings would have been trustworthy, indicating the truth.

    It will take for you to take a leap of faith, nothing less, and believe, be it for a moment, that the belief you are unworthy is untrue, and that in reality, you are worthy. A leap of faith here and there, so that you get the feeling that is true to reality, so that you know how it feels and then, you will want more of that feeling.

    anita

    #220651
    noname
    Participant

    ”that core belief I have that I’m a bad person” Less misery is the result. The belief of being worthless is tightly connected to the belief that you are bad, unworthy of the good things in life.
    I see this in myself very much I feel “bad” when I smoke too often, and I smoke most when I feel worthless. I feel “bad” because I’m supposed to be a role model in my career and I’m not all the way together, or rather I haven’t developed the capacity to empathize with myself so that I wouldn’t have to escape from the feelings of worthlessness by smoking. You wrote to me “You feel unworthy even though you are worthy” lately I have been seeing the worth of others to me which led me to thinking that I must be worthy because in the buddhist since we (people) are not separate, we are one. By this logic if I’m able to see anyone else as worthy I should be able to see myself as worthy, of course it hasn’t been as simple as telling myself that but I feel my capacity to see the good in others even in their difficult moments is a trait of healer, a person who uplifts others, a worthy person in my eyes.

    In regards to helping and feeling worthy “doesn’t always suggests that sometimes helping other does the trick” this has been more true to me this week than ever as I have had to terminate with clients and they gave me the gift of witnessing them in their rawest moments, some expressing they have never had someone open them up so quickly or even at all. (I’m in tears as I write this section) They allowed me to learn about myself and prompted me to do better in my work on myself which I am deeply grateful for. They weren’t obligated to let me know they think I’m doing good by them, and as a professional it’s really none of my business either, I let each one of my clients know what I have been getting out of the helping relationship with them as I terminate, as they too needed to know they are worthy as they see me. I have cried a lot the past two days as I had to terminate with such beautiful souls, particularly a young girl who was caring for her mother the same way I did, she was carrying her mothers pain, and thanks to this thread I was able to articulate this to her and have her understand her mothers happiness is not her responsibility. It was really hard doing this as I will likely never see this person again and all I can hope for is that she got the message that she is the child. In that moment seeing this dynamic outside my so called “self” made me realize the following you wrote could not be more true ““I see (mother) as a person who plays the role of victim. Which I think can be manipulative”. Her repeated, ongoing, lifetime message in playing victim is that she deserves empathy, not you.” Also this “as a child you had no one to rely on and had to be the one your mother relied on”
    When I got home I cried many tears for this young woman, and myself as Its starting to make sense to me on a emotional/feelings level. It took the bravery of that little girl to cry with me and leave my office and put on a tough face for her mom for me to realize I’ve been doing the same thing for 26 years. For that I am grateful for her honesty with me.

    I got angry today at work again but before I reacted too strongly I thought back to this thread and these words “it will take pausing before automatically reacting” I am glad I did not cuss at the director(also a professor) of the center over the phone, as we had a crisis situation that I was supposed to escalate to her, but she had left the center even though I am unlicensed and not supposed to be practicing alone, for which she will get in trouble for. I let her know that this was unacceptable, as she endangered my career, Her career, and potentially someones life, by not doing her job. I am glad I am moving from this internship site now. However this gave me an opportunity to work on my anger having thought back to this that you wrote “Problem is our feelings are very convincing, and if it wasn’t for the severe injury in childhood, your feelings would have been trustworthy, indicating the truth.” My feelings in this moment were in congruence with truth and I’m just glad I was able to collect myself and continue working after this, and not feel ashamed for expressing my anger, because I was firm with her about my disappointment but not disrespectful.

    Im still struggling with sleep, last night I barely made it 3.5hrs total, I continue to be plagued by thoughts of needing a woman, and wanting that feeling of safety and belonging, I want this way more than sex, and I will also take your advice of “minimize the risk by taking the time to get to know a woman well enough before becoming involved with her” something I’ve honestly never done the longest I’ve gone is 3weeks before having sex with someone, not enough time in my opinion. Its going to take some persistence and understanding of what I really need to overcome this in the future. I still have a hard time believing/accepting this “What you need is there for you, available.” And I think thats because I don’t feel worthy of a woman’s love still, I don’t feel like it would be possible, I know this isn’t true and I’m happy that I have more female friends who have helped me see women in a more compassionate way, and not much different from myself (because of the oneness of humanity) However I see this clearly “When you are able and willing to see that your mother didn’t love you and cheated you out of ..you, then you will be able to not see your mother in every other woman.” Because I have absolutely been attracted to unhappy women to the point where I really want to get this need met, but don’t trust myself enough to meet it without dating my mom again. It has been difficult to spend so much time in solitude without falling into those feelings of worthlessness. Although I would like to think this period in my life of the past 3 years spending only a total 10 months in relationships with a woman will help me learn something somehow.

    I just want to thank you again Anita I know can be excessive with the thanks at times, but as a fellow helper and healer in training I know how rare that thanks can be. You are making a positive impact on my life, with just your words and I don’t want you to go unappreciated for that, because when you help me, you are helping me develop the capacity to help others, therefore you are helping so many more people than just I

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by noname.
    #220683
    noname
    Participant

    Anita

    I think after today I may take a break from this for a while. I’m getting a sense that I may be burning you out. I feel you have given so much to me here over the past month and we have covered nearly every issue I have. You have been so helpful and kind to me. From this thread I can ‘re read as much as I want to help myself in the future. I still wish I could repay you in some kind of way! But Just know I am deeply grateful for your guidance and I wish you the same peace I’m sure you want for me.

    #220687
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    I read your previous post and was about to reply when I lost the internet. When I was back I noticed the most recent post. Thank you for your expressed appreciation, it means a lot to me. You referred to me as a “fellow helper”, I like that, it has a new ring to it, when a psychotherapist to-be, soon enough, refers to me as a fellow helper. I am glad to read that you referred to our communication at times away from the computer. It led me to think/ feel that I made a difference in your life, at least when you used our communication to make good sense of your day and choose well.

    Your most recent post, I want to understand: do you want to stop our communication because you feel uncomfortable, undeserving of it, of my time, is that the motivation or is there another in addition? I would like to read more about your motivation. I mean, if this has helped you, why not continue?

    anita

    #220719
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    I realized a moment ago that I can make it easier for you, and so, I will try to do that: it is okay with me that our communication ends. I benefited from it. I keep communicating with people only if there is a benefit for me, keeping interactions win-win, win for you, win for me.

    I am here to  learn and communicating with you led me to learn more about me, about my life, about other people. You thanked me adequately (I am very satisfied with your expressed appreciation of me), and I say to you: you are welcome. And I add: thank you noname, you helped me too.

    And so, you carry no debts in relation to me. You owe me nothing. It is okay for you to not respond to this very post, to end this thread, to not start another, all these are okay for you to do, and not do. It is all  okay with me. It is okay with me if you choose at any time to initiate more communication with me.

    I agree, there is a lot to re-read in our communications, and it is possible that all I have for you is already in record, and you can review, consider, reconsider and so on.

    I do wish you all the best.

    anita

    #220729
    noname
    Participant

    Thank you Anita

    I wanted to take a break because again i dont want to burn you out with my issues, I’m sure I will repost again. I don’t know if it will be in a day or a month. My concern was for you in taking a break, as I feel you have given me plenty to work with, and I don’t know if it is the case or not, but I can imagine it can be exhausting being so attentive to other people’s needs. There are so many people you reply to and you give no special treatment from the other threads I’ve seen meaning it seems you put just as much thought into replying to every persons post regardless of how many times they’ve posted. I thought I’d give you a break from me for a while. I’m sure I will be back soon

    #220731
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    Maybe you know better than I know and maybe I will appreciate a break from our communication. I imagine I will find out when and if you post again, maybe it will give me space to better process future information from you. I suppose it is a possibility.

    I do hope you use the break well, and that you will feel comfortable to return, or not, knowing I do  think well of you whether you come back or not.

    I hope you will return. And I have no doubt that I will be glad to read from you again.

    anita

    #223335
    noname
    Participant

    I just wanted to check in to say I’m doing well right now. I can say I am doing significantly better than when I started this thread, feeling more confident than ever. I even performed my music in front of an audience for the first time this past weekend, and didn’t feel afraid to share some of myself with strangers.
    I feel for the first time in my life that I love myself. And It feels really good to know no matter what is going on in my life I won’t be getting in my own way as much and I’m keeping my own best interest in mind in every decision I make. I no longer feel as if I’m out to sabatoge myself. I feel attractive and easy to talk to because I radiate authenticity and truth. Although I still have work to do in being true to myself I believe.

    If there’s anything I’m struggling with right mow it’s still being without sex or a partner. However, I’m not panicking in the absence of intimacy as I have in the past, and I think it has a lot to do with actually liking myself. Before when I disliked myself, the panic to find some kind of love and approval felt unbearable, as If I was separated from the pack and left to die. Now I think because I have made it a point to be even more open with friends and ask for care when I need it, I’m not panicking as much because I know having a partner is not the only way to get my need for emotional intimacy met. Of course sex+emotional intimacy would be amazing, and I believe it may even be there for me one day, but I’ve accepted that it may come and go and that’s actually more comforting to me than thinking it’s something I have to go find and hold on tightly or take some active role in acquiring, when i try too much I get exhausted easily.

    I thought I’d just check in and let you know things are okay right now, and I’m in my last year of school now so that’s exciting for me too.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by noname.
    #223371
    noname
    Participant

    *

    #223375
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear noname:

    I thought about you only yesterday afternoon, on my walk, and here you are, what a pleasant surprise! I am glad you checked in, very glad.

    Here is an interesting expression of the fact we humans are social animals: “the panic to find some kind of love and approval felt unbearable, as if I was separated from the pack and left to die”. It is only recently, in the last few days, that I remembered the feeling I had a whole lot of the time, as a child and onward, that separation, separation from the pack, from other people. It is no difference from other social animals, when an individual is threatened with separation from the pack, or is separated, the fear must be intense. Separation from the pack, in nature, means death.

    I would be excited too, last year of school, a career as a psychotherapist in front of view, as excited as can be. And I imagine it would be very exciting for you to finally have that loving, sexual relationship you yearn for. I can see it happening for you.

    I am looking forward to the next pleasant surprise from you, whenever it happens that you post again. You made my day!

    anita

    #224801
    noname
    Participant

    Without any particular reason or event, I find myself slipping back into depression. I don’t really have an exact reason why, but I have been feeling disconnected from people again, and as if I’m not getting what I need from the relationships I do have with friends. Specifically the friend I see the most I’ve come to realize doesent ever ask about my life. I’ve been at a new internship for 3 weeks now and he hasn’t once asked me about it, he doesent even ask me how I’m doing when he sees me. I think it’s exhausting for me pretending to be in a good mood for people, I do the same thing at my internship too because I know any slip up in my personality could mean I get kicked out of my program, so I have to be on guard at school and at my internship to ensure i can graduate and not raise any red flags about my “questionable character” since I’m on thin ice with the u diversity for cussing out my supervisor twice at my last internship. To add to the stress I’m working at a residential inpatient treatment facility for kids with behavior issues who have all been traumatized and the poorly trained staff re-traumatize the kids everyday, and I’m only a student so I have little influence on what goes on. Lastly I’m just lonely, which completely contradicts the way I was feeling for the past few weeks. I think I need regular Meaningful interaction with people, and by meaningful I mean interactions which reciprocate care and intimacy.

    PThis is my own fault too for not allowing people into my world when I feel depressed which only makes it worse because I feel ashamed of being sad and then disconnected. Some of my female friends went out Friday night and I didn’t want to go, but they insisted I come so they sent a taxi to my house at 1am to pick me up, I still pretended nothing was wrong but I do a bad job of hiding my feelings, especially when someone has seen me in better moods in the past. I still wouldn’t allow then to help me. Another friend invited me to a jam session/bbq yesterday and I lied and said I was sick, and yet another friend invited me for dinner today and I’m also going to lie and say I’m sick. It’s hard for me to want to go out into the world when I feel this way. I still have an intense longing for physical intimacy which I feel most ashamed of because it seems so easy for everyone else. When i hear stories of people’s numbers of partners it always makes me feel really insecure and hate myself for only having slept with 4 women. I feel there has to be something wrong with me. I hate myself so much right now and just want to stop.

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