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  • #416092
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear SereneWolf,

    You haven’t updated me about your health in a while. So, tell me the good news?

    Still no good news unfortunately… I am going to see another doctor and look for other treatment options, because so far I had no relief 🙁

    Yes, I guess it was one of the reasons I felt more hurt even after reassurance, time and trust it wasn’t enough for her.

    Yeah, and it might have even led you to believe that she doesn’t appreciate you enough, because nothing you said or did managed to convince her to open up to you and change her attitude.

    We might even feel bad about ourselves for not being successful in “saving” our partner (I don’t know if this was the case with you?) Whereas in reality, their rejection doesn’t mean that we’re not good enough or not important enough, but it is the consequence of their own internal issues. And that’s something we can’t do much about if they aren’t willing to help themselves.

    Because I talked to her after a while and I said I’m seeing a therapist, She was bit more enthusiastic about seeing the therapist again

    Oh so she started seeing a therapist after you broke up, then she stopped, but now she started again, after you told her you’re seeing one too?

    Okay so just a general question. Suppose we go out and take 10 random people and out of those 10 people what do you think how many would be loving themselves as they should?

    Hm… hard to say. There was a study in the US, I think, where they said that around 50% of people are securely attached (which would lead to being an emotionally healthy, non-traumatized individual). In other parts of the world, with a more patriarchal society, I am assuming this would be less. I mean, this is just my assumption and I am no expert, so please take this with a grain of salt. But it could be that at least half of the people have some kind of childhood trauma.

    But I’m also thinking it’s could be like similar to comfort zone thing? Because I’ve mostly been with girls who had low-esteem so now I feel just more comfortable with them

    Well, you spent 3 years being in a relationship that was very frustrating to you most of the times, but still you say it was a comfort zone. So perhaps being with someone with low self-esteem is still more comfortable than being with someone with healthy self-esteem, whom you’re afraid might judge you?

    Or it’s like a attraction thing low self-esteem attracts low-esteem?

    Well, I think you had higher self-esteem (at least in some aspects) than the girls you were with so far. So you were the “savior” in the relationship, right? You were trying to fix them and help them. You had less problems than them, so to speak.

    And it’s a pretty common dynamic. We’re often attracted to people whom we think we can “save”, people who are emotionally unavailable or troubled, but we believe we can finally turn them around. That all stems from our childhood and the dynamics with our parents…

    Hmm no, I don’t think that way. I believe that we’re dating now because she chose me and I chose her, That’s a freedom. I don’t care if some guy is trying to steal her from me. If he’s able to steal her from me and actually do then congrats to him but I don’t like to compete when it comes to relationships. I’ll be just trying be myself. If she wants to be in, be in, or out, just happily out. For me it’s like if someone one else capable of steal her from me, it’s making my commitment decision easier for like now I’m sure you’re not the one.

    That’s actually a healthy attitude. To not force things if she doesn’t want to be with you. But you said you still get possessive, even if you don’t want to be in a committed relationship (it’s kind of my problem even though It was only a first date I did felt possessive so.. It happened to me a lot of times even though I don’t like to be committed I do get possessive quickly).

    I guess it’s your protector part that says “If she doesn’t want me, I don’t want her either.” But your emotional part (your inner child) attaches quickly to her and wants her all for himself. So the possessive reaction seems like an inner child reflex in you. But the ego part says “no, I am cool if she doesn’t want me, I am totally fine alone”.

    Haha yeah that’s right. I think nowadays I’m doing comparison and get jealous even though I don’t like it

    And what should I do about this superior and inferior thing other than try to see all as equal?

    When we feel worthy and valuable as a person, we don’t get jealous about the qualities that other people possess. Because no one possess all the gifts and talents in the world – someone is talented in one thing, another person in something else. We are all special and unique in our own way.

    So if you feel that she is e.g. more energetic than you, you can appreciate that quality of hers, rather than seeing it a threat, or as something you’re missing. Because you’re happy with your own gifts and talents, you don’t feel deprived. Does that make sense?

    And another thing: I think you too are pretty energetic and fierce, considering that you started living alone at the age of 16 and all other things you’ve achieved in your life. So I think you’re not seeing yourself clearly and are selling yourself short. Again, that’s the inner critic that gets activated and convinces you that you’re not good enough. So when you start hearing that voice telling you “look at you, you’re so weak, why aren’t you energetic and fierce as her”, you can tell the inner critic to shut up and back off.

    So I think you can do two things against the inferiority complex. One is: appreciate other people’s talents and good qualities because they’re not a threat to you, because you have your own talents and gifts. And secondly, silence the inner critic who wants to make you believe you’re lacking in so many ways, when you’re not.

    I’m at my hometown at my parents place and I did noticed that even though his behavior is better with me. With others he’s till same old narcissistic person who think whatever he thinks is right and others are wrong. I don’t know if I should just accept that he can’t change or if I should fight for it even more. Because the thing is that he doesn’t believe in therapy even a bit.

    No, you don’t need to try to change him, or encourage him to seek therapy. People like him (similar to my mother) are set in their ways. They don’t believe they have a problem either – it’s more like everybody around them has a problem, but not them. Someone who believes there’s nothing wrong with them and there’s nothing they should change about themselves won’t be open to therapy either. Trying to get them to go would be futile.

    What you can do though is stop him from talking disrespectfully to you (if he still does). Maybe you can sometimes disagree with some of his judgmental comments and remarks that he probably passes around frequently. But don’t get into an argument with him. Just express your opinion respectfully, not expecting that he would agree or change his view.

    But if you see that that’s futile too, that he starts arguing and you get drawn into an argument, you can spend less time in his company. That’s how you can protect yourself from his critical and judgmental attitudes, even if they aren’t directed at you.

     

    #416329
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    I’ve visited my hometown and it was good.

     

    Still no good news unfortunately… I am going to see another doctor and look for other treatment options, because so far I had no relief.

    Ah I see, Have you already visited another doctor?  What did S/he? said? Take care of yourself.

     

    Yeah, and it might have even led you to believe that she doesn’t appreciate you enough, because nothing you said or did managed to convince her to open up to you and change her attitude.

    Yes Exactly!

    We might even feel bad about ourselves for not being successful in “saving” our partner (I don’t know if this was the case with you?) Whereas in reality, their rejection doesn’t mean that we’re not good enough or not important enough, but it is the consequence of their own internal issues. And that’s something we can’t do much about if they aren’t willing to help themselves.

    Yes I think it was the same with me. Because I did felt like I’m the responsible for “saving” her since I was in the relationship with her so I used to think as her best supporter and a lover it’s my responsibility. Otherwise what am I even doing for this relationship?

     

    Oh so she started seeing a therapist after you broke up, then she stopped, but now she started again, after you told her you’re seeing one too?

    Yup

    Hm… hard to say. There was a study in the US, I think, where they said that around 50% of people are securely attached (which would lead to being an emotionally healthy, non-traumatized individual). In other parts of the world, with a more patriarchal society, I am assuming this would be less. I mean, this is just my assumption and I am no expert, so please take this with a grain of salt. But it could be that at least half of the people have some kind of childhood trauma.

    Wow so I think 50% means still there’s good chance. Although I’m surprised since US consumes more anti-depressants than any other nation. As per statistics more teens and women.

     

    Well, you spent 3 years being in a relationship that was very frustrating to you most of the times, but still you say it was a comfort zone. So perhaps being with someone with low self-esteem is still more comfortable than being with someone with healthy self-esteem, whom you’re afraid might judge you?

    Hmm I don’t know if I feel judged, Just not sure since I’m still not spending enough time with her but yeah I do feel lot different (but not in a bad way)

    And yeah she seems pretty upset because I didn’t try to contact her while I was in my hometown, and today she told me that she actually texted me “I miss you” but then deleted because she thought that I’m not missing her so she shouldn’t admit that either. But we’re meeting this weekend so let’s see what happens. and tbh I already feel scared just because she said “I miss you”

    Well, I think you had higher self-esteem (at least in some aspects) than the girls you were with so far. So you were the “savior” in the relationship, right? You were trying to fix them and help them. You had less problems than them, so to speak.

    Yes that’s more accurate from my part.

    And it’s a pretty common dynamic. We’re often attracted to people whom we think we can “save”, people who are emotionally unavailable or troubled, but we believe we can finally turn them around. That all stems from our childhood and the dynamics with our parents…

    Oh I see I didn’t know that. So it’s also related to PTSD we’ve talked about?

     

    I guess it’s your protector part that says “If she doesn’t want me, I don’t want her either.” But your emotional part (your inner child) attaches quickly to her and wants her all for himself. So the possessive reaction seems like an inner child reflex in you. But the ego part says “no, I am cool if she doesn’t want me, I am totally fine alone”.

    Oh yeah it could be like that! Like I said before about duality, What to do about that?

     

    When we feel worthy and valuable as a person, we don’t get jealous about the qualities that other people possess. Because no one possess all the gifts and talents in the world – someone is talented in one thing, another person in something else. We are all special and unique in our own way.

    So if you feel that she is e.g. more energetic than you, you can appreciate that quality of hers, rather than seeing it a threat, or as something you’re missing. Because you’re happy with your own gifts and talents, you don’t feel deprived. Does that make sense?

    Yes It does makes sense. And since I’m practicing more empathy I do see more good qualities that people have around me..

    And another thing: I think you too are pretty energetic and fierce, considering that you started living alone at the age of 16 and all other things you’ve achieved in your life. So I think you’re not seeing yourself clearly and are selling yourself short. Again, that’s the inner critic that gets activated and convinces you that you’re not good enough. So when you start hearing that voice telling you “look at you, you’re so weak, why aren’t you energetic and fierce as her”, you can tell the inner critic to shut up and back off.

    Thanks for the reminder! I think even though I’m getting enough reminders inner critic is still isn’t fully silent.

    So I think you can do two things against the inferiority complex. One is: appreciate other people’s talents and good qualities because they’re not a threat to you, because you have your own talents and gifts. And secondly, silence the inner critic who wants to make you believe you’re lacking in so many ways, when you’re not.

    Thanks I’ll do that. First one isn’t seems hard but yeah second one does seem hard

    No, you don’t need to try to change him, or encourage him to seek therapy. People like him (similar to my mother) are set in their ways. They don’t believe they have a problem either – it’s more like everybody around them has a problem, but not them. Someone who believes there’s nothing wrong with them and there’s nothing they should change about themselves won’t be open to therapy either. Trying to get them to go would be futile.

    Yes exactly! You’re right if they don’t even admit that they have the problem so there’s not even a question to work on that.

    What you can do though is stop him from talking disrespectfully to you (if he still does). Maybe you can sometimes disagree with some of his judgmental comments and remarks that he probably passes around frequently. But don’t get into an argument with him. Just express your opinion respectfully, not expecting that he would agree or change his view.

    He doesn’t talk disrespectfully to me anymore. He talks more calmly to me, Explain things to me.

    But if you see that that’s futile too, that he starts arguing and you get drawn into an argument, you can spend less time in his company. That’s how you can protect yourself from his critical and judgmental attitudes, even if they aren’t directed at you.

    Since I’m not living with my family I already spend much less time with my father.. and even when I’m home I mostly spend time with my siblings and mother.

     

    #416348
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear SereneWolf,

    I’ve visited my hometown and it was good.

    good to read from you again! I am glad you had a good time back home.

    Have you already visited another doctor? What did S/he? said? Take care of yourself.

    I have, but he wasn’t helpful at all… so I’ll keep looking. And thanks for your support!

    Because I did felt like I’m the responsible for “saving” her since I was in the relationship with her so I used to think as her best supporter and a lover it’s my responsibility. Otherwise what am I even doing for this relationship?

    Yeah, supporting each other is a natural thing in a relationship. But if it’s one-sided and you’re “supporting”, i.e. trying to heal her all the time, that’s not healthy. I mean, you’re not her therapist, you’re her boyfriend. It doesn’t mean you can’t talk about issues, you sure can, but deep emotional wounds can only be healed in therapy, not in a romantic relationship.

    Wow so I think 50% means still there’s good chance. Although I’m surprised since US consumes more anti-depressants than any other nation. As per statistics more teens and women.

    Yeah, the US probably consumes too many antidepressants. But in terms of emotional health, they might still be better than some other parts of the world… of course, all those are generalizations, so not really relevant.

    And yeah she seems pretty upset because I didn’t try to contact her while I was in my hometown, and today she told me that she actually texted me “I miss you” but then deleted because she thought that I’m not missing her so she shouldn’t admit that either. But we’re meeting this weekend so let’s see what happens. and tbh I already feel scared just because she said “I miss you”

    Okay, I like that she was honest about wanting to text you, but then deleting it. So she showed her vulnerability after all, even if at first she wanted to hide it.

    How come you didn’t text her at all while you were away? Didn’t feel the need, or you stopped yourself because it would have seemed “weak and needy”?

    tbh I already feel scared just because she said “I miss you”

    Right… what’s the first thing that comes to your mind when she says “I miss you”?

    Oh I see I didn’t know that. So it’s also related to PTSD we’ve talked about?

    Yes, we (our inner child) is trying to finally get our distant/unloving parent to love us. Only now it’s not the parent but our romantic partner whom we’re trying to change.

     

    Yes It does makes sense. And since I’m practicing more empathy I do see more good qualities that people have around me..

    Excellent!

    First one isn’t seems hard but yeah second one does seem hard. I think even though I’m getting enough reminders inner critic is still isn’t fully silent.

    Okay, so if the inner critic can still make you believe you’re not good enough, it means that your inner child feels not good enough. And you’d need to tell your inner child that he is precious and talented and lovable, and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with him.

    When those thoughts of “not good enough” start popping up in some form, try to be like general Iroh to your inner child and tell him how precious he is. And that whoever tells him differently is a liar and doesn’t know a thing!

    Oh yeah it could be like that! Like I said before about duality, What to do about that?

    Be aware of it. I think the main duality in you is 1) the inner child who is afraid of judgment and believes he is unworthy, and 2) the protector (which is the shield around your heart) who wants to protect your inner child from harm. But he is doing it by wrong means – by shutting down intimacy and vulnerability altogether.

    What would need to happen is that you be a good parent to your inner child and assure him that he is worthy (as I described above). And you also assure him that you’ll protect him from other people’s judgments and mistreatment (by setting boundaries, learning to say No, etc), should there be need for it.

    So you, the adult SereneWolf, become the good and healthy protector for your inner child. Like a good father. That’s how you can replace this unhealthy, toxic protector, who is the Outer Critic/shield around your heart.

    I hope it’s not too messy the way I’ve explained it?

     

    He doesn’t talk disrespectfully to me anymore. He talks more calmly to me, Explain things to me.

    Good! If he isn’t trying to put you down, isn’t yelling at you etc, that’s great.

    Since I’m not living with my family I already spend much less time with my father.. and even when I’m home I mostly spend time with my siblings and mother.

    That’s good too. You’re already minimizing the time spent with him, even during your visits, and instead spend time with those in whose company you feel good and not judged…

     

    #416379
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    I have, but he wasn’t helpful at all… so I’ll keep looking. And thanks for your support!

    Ah I see, Hope you find a really good doctor that helps for your health much better

    Yeah, supporting each other is a natural thing in a relationship. But if it’s one-sided and you’re “supporting”, i.e. trying to heal her all the time, that’s not healthy. I mean, you’re not her therapist, you’re her boyfriend. It doesn’t mean you can’t talk about issues, you sure can, but deep emotional wounds can only be healed in therapy, not in a romantic relationship.

    Yes I knew that well but since she wasn’t comfortable opening up with therapist I felt like I should help her much as much as I can. But in result it just emotionally drained me because yeah it was one-sided help. And it sometimes it made me question myself like does it even matter to help people? because at the end of the day they’re going to do just whatever they want.

     

    Okay, I like that she was honest about wanting to text you, but then deleting it. So she showed her vulnerability after all, even if at first she wanted to hide it.

    Yes I do feel bad though. Because in short time she’s quite vulnerable with me and I’ve disappointed her already.

    How come you didn’t text her at all while you were away? Didn’t feel the need, or you stopped yourself because it would have seemed “weak and needy”?

    Well kind of yeah both reasons I didn’t feel the need and when I did feel it I was like let’s not rush she’s going to text if she wants it, Why should I seem needy first? That’s what I was thinking

    Right… what’s the first thing that comes to your mind when she says “I miss you”?

    Overthinking and fear I suppose. Like now relationship is gradually getting deeper but soon it will end

    Yes, we (our inner child) is trying to finally get our distant/unloving parent to love us. Only now it’s not the parent but our romantic partner whom we’re trying to change.

    Hmm I see…

      but we believe we can finally turn them around”

    But we actually can’t and that’s what disappoints more. Right?

     

    Okay, so if the inner critic can still make you believe you’re not good enough, it means that your inner child feels not good enough. And you’d need to tell your inner child that he is precious and talented and lovable, and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with him.

    I do try to pep talk with him time to time.. but not much frequently

    When those thoughts of “not good enough” start popping up in some form, try to be like general Iroh to your inner child and tell him how precious he is. And that whoever tells him differently is a liar and doesn’t know a thing!

    You’re right! I’ll try to do that more

    Be aware of it. I think the main duality in you is 1) the inner child who is afraid of judgment and believes he is unworthy, and 2) the protector (which is the shield around your heart) who wants to protect your inner child from harm. But he is doing it by wrong means – by shutting down intimacy and vulnerability altogether.

    What would need to happen is that you be a good parent to your inner child and assure him that he is worthy (as I described above). And you also assure him that you’ll protect him from other people’s judgments and mistreatment (by setting boundaries, learning to say No, etc), should there be need for it.

    So you, the adult SereneWolf, become the good and healthy protector for your inner child. Like a good father. That’s how you can replace this unhealthy, toxic protector, who is the Outer Critic/shield around your heart.

    I hope it’s not too messy the way I’ve explained it?

    You explained it well. You already noticed the main pain points. And yeah it’s been days I haven’t been a good parent to my inner child but feels like work when you already feel emotionally drained you know

     

    Good! If he isn’t trying to put you down, isn’t yelling at you etc, that’s great.

    Naah he doesn’t do that to me. It’s been a while, he used to do that a lot in past

    #416385
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear SereneWolf,

    Ah I see, Hope you find a really good doctor that helps for your health much better

    thank you!

    Yes I knew that well but since she wasn’t comfortable opening up with therapist I felt like I should help her much as much as I can. But in result it just emotionally drained me because yeah it was one-sided help.

    Yes, it was just you helping her, being like her therapist, which is not an equal relationship. And yes, it’s emotionally draining, specially when you see the same issues come up again and again… and nothing changes.

    And it sometimes it made me question myself like does it even matter to help people? because at the end of the day they’re going to do just whatever they want.

    Yep.. people who don’t want to seek therapy usually don’t want to really help themselves. They tend to complain and maybe feel a bit better when you encourage them, but this only lasts for a short while and they slip back quickly into their old patterns. So no real change happens.

    Well kind of yeah both reasons I didn’t feel the need and when I did feel it I was like let’s not rush she’s going to text if she wants it, Why should I seem needy first? That’s what I was thinking

    Yeah, that’s you not wanting to show neediness and vulnerability. So there was a moment when you did feel like texting her (that was a spontaneous impulse), but then you shut if down, for fear of appearing needy.

    Yes I do feel bad though. Because in short time she’s quite vulnerable with me and I’ve disappointed her already.

    Well, your fear got in the way. You can still repair the damage, if you’d want to…

    Overthinking and fear I suppose. Like now relationship is gradually getting deeper but soon it will end

    What are you telling yourself, i.e. what’s your internal dialogue, which makes you believe it will soon end?

    But we actually can’t and that’s what disappoints more. Right?

    Correct! We hope to change our parents, and then we hope to change our emotionally unavailable partners, but we don’t succeed. And it leads to disappointment.

    Naah he doesn’t do that to me. It’s been a while, he used to do that a lot in past

    Good! I am happy you can have a more civil relationship now…

     

    #416386
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Ola Tee,

    yes, it’s emotionally draining, specially when you see the same issues come up again and again… and nothing changes.

    Yes Exactly! And that repetition was making me angry a lot but I bottled up my anger.

     

    Yep.. people who don’t want to seek therapy usually don’t want to really help themselves. They tend to complain and maybe feel a bit better when you encourage them, but this only lasts for a short while and they slip back quickly into their old patterns. So no real change happens.

    Yes and I’ve tried but perhaps she had even deeper trust issues than me, so she didn’t wanted to share anything with a therapist (Or a stranger as she’d like to address)
    and even for me I don’t think moving from old patterns is that easy.

     

    Yeah, that’s you not wanting to show neediness and vulnerability. So there was a moment when you did feel like texting her (that was a spontaneous impulse), but then you shut if down, for fear of appearing needy.

    Yes I think so, Also because I’m kind of bored of texting but if I rethink in person I’m not that much better. So I guess I just need more “in-person” practice.

    Well, your fear got in the way. You can still repair the damage, if you’d want to…

    I did tried it. I’ve tried to encourage for voice notes since it’s time-saving for both of us and also more connecting? And seems like she’s okay with it.
    But yeah she’s definitely not a person who forgives you easily. I could notice that from her tone of voice😬😂

     

    What are you telling yourself, i.e. what’s your internal dialogue, which makes you believe it will soon end?

    That I’m not ready for this and she’s gonna turn her back anytime.

     

    Correct! We hope to change our parents, and then we hope to change our emotionally unavailable partners, but we don’t succeed. And it leads to disappointment.

    Hmm so for expectations like this it’s just a perfectionist inside me trying to “fix” others? So as we talked I still need to work on my acceptance part gradually.

     

    Remember that I told you about the interview? Turns out I didn’t got that job. But Now that rejection made me feel like no matter what I want more responsible fully remote position like that. So I started to apply and got more rejections and now I feel even more down

     

    And nowadays I’m also getting crazy afternoon slumps. Like after 1PM I can’t of think anything but eating and sleeping. I’m taking more than 2-3 hours long naps and then be like oh day is already ended.. So now I’m mostly finishing my work at late night. It’s been like a month! So kinda it turned into a habit.

     

    And yeah I also want to go deeper into CTPSD things we’ve talked about if you don’t mind

    #416387
    Tee
    Participant

    Hey SereneWolf 🙂

    Yes and I’ve tried but perhaps she had even deeper trust issues than me, so she didn’t wanted to share anything with a therapist (Or a stranger as she’d like to address)

    That’s interesting… since therapists are vowed to confidentiality and they are non-judgmental per definition. But some people are like that with authority figures, and maybe a therapist in her mind meant a  judgmental authority figure, and it scared her… But it could have also been an excuse, because if someone rejects therapy, and hasn’t even given it a try, it usually means they don’t really want to change in a deeper way…

    Yes I think so, Also because I’m kind of bored of texting but if I rethink in person I’m not that much better. So I guess I just need more “in-person” practice.

    Well texting all day (i.e. making it the only way of communication) is tiring, but this would have been more like a check-in text, just to show you’re thinking of her. And since you were at your parents’ place, you had an excuse why it would have been only a short text 🙂

    I did tried it. I’ve tried to encourage for voice notes since it’s time-saving for both of us and also more connecting? And seems like she’s okay with it.

    I am not sure it’s more connecting, but it’s a good replacement for texts. If you want more connection, a phone call would be much better, in my opinion…

    But yeah she’s definitely not a person who forgives you easily. I could notice that from her tone of voice

    Okay, but she could have texted you too, if she was so keen. So it’s like she expected you to text, and was angry when you didn’t, but she hasn’t texted you either. She only admitted later that she wanted to, but then deleted it. I mean, I understand she is upset and feels like you don’t care, but she could have texted you first…

    That I’m not ready for this and she’s gonna turn her back anytime.

    Well, your fear is still strong. That’s why you rather play it cool and uninterested. You’re doing the avoidant pattern. And it could lead to breakup with time, specially if she expects a normal level of interest and dedication from the guy. And I guess she does, that’s why she is so upset. So yeah… you’d need to decide what you want. Do you want to challenge your fear, or you want to succumb?

    Hmm so for expectations like this it’s just a perfectionist inside me trying to “fix” others? So as we talked I still need to work on my acceptance part gradually.

    The perfectionist likes to fix people whom he sees inferior than him in some way. It’s more like a defense mechanism, because if you see the person as inferior and in need of fixing, then you feel safe because you feel you’re above them (“better” than them) and therefore, they won’t judge you.

    Thinking about your 3-yr long LDR, perhaps the perfectionist in you needed to receive praise and validation from her, because this is something you were missing as a child. But it could be that she didn’t give you too much praise and validation, because you said she often sabotaged your meetings, didn’t listen to your advice etc?

    So I am thinking now that your perfectionist fixer is possibly a reaction to not receiving praise and validation from your parents? And trying to get it now in romantic relationships?

    Remember that I told you about the interview? Turns out I didn’t got that job. But Now that rejection made me feel like no matter what I want more responsible fully remote position like that. So I started to apply and got more rejections and now I feel even more down

    Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that interview… sorry you didn’t get the job. But then again, at least you’re clear now with what you want: a position with more responsibility, fully remote. How come you’re sticking to fully remote btw? So you’re more flexible with where you live?

    And nowadays I’m also getting crazy afternoon slumps. Like after 1PM I can’t of think anything but eating and sleeping. I’m taking more than 2-3 hours long naps and then be like oh day is already ended.. So now I’m mostly finishing my work at late night. It’s been like a month! So kinda it turned into a habit.

    Alright, so you’re doing that Mon-Friday, during working hours? You’re having long naps in the afternoons, and then you need to work late to finish your tasks, right? Perhaps you can introduce a short walk (or even a bike ride) in the afternoon, to freshen you up?

    And yeah I also want to go deeper into CTPSD things we’ve talked about if you don’t mind

    Sure, no problem…

     

    #416510
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Hola Tee,

    How are you doing? How was your weekend?

     

    That’s interesting… since therapists are vowed to confidentiality and they are non-judgmental per definition. But some people are like that with authority figures, and maybe a therapist in her mind meant a  judgmental authority figure, and it scared her… But it could have also been an excuse, because if someone rejects therapy, and hasn’t even given it a try, it usually means they don’t really want to change in a deeper way…

    I guess so yeah and I was just worried so much about her healing that I didn’t even try to look from different perspective, and I believe after a while my “drill sergeant” just started being harsh on her

     

    Well texting all day (i.e. making it the only way of communication) is tiring, but this would have been more like a check-in text, just to show you’re thinking of her. And since you were at your parents’ place, you had an excuse why it would have been only a short text..

    Haha yeah you do have a good point. But when I was at my hometown tbh only thing I really missed was my cat 🤣

    I am not sure it’s more connecting, but it’s a good replacement for texts. If you want more connection, a phone call would be much better, in my opinion…

    We talk on phone call but not that much frequently…

    Okay, but she could have texted you too, if she was so keen. So it’s like she expected you to text, and was angry when you didn’t, but she hasn’t texted you either. She only admitted later that she wanted to, but then deleted it. I mean, I understand she is upset and feels like you don’t care, but she could have texted you first…

    I know right!?

    But I think I know the advantages of physical relationship now. We met this Saturday evening, and her anger was gone. She hugged me with good warmth like she actually missed me. And we did have a good time together. She even cooked for me. but surprising enough I don’t feel much scared now because I’m not overthinking much and like we talked about mindfulness I’m just trying to enjoy present moments more… Because this different kind of feeling makes me feel like I’m not hard to love then why I’ve been so hard on myself for so long and not being compassionate with myself?

    There’s good quote from Lord Krishna which I remembered so, Love when you can, Tomorrow isn’t promised. so I’m just reminding myself kind of things like this which could help me for loosen up my heart shield.

    Well, your fear is still strong. That’s why you rather play it cool and uninterested. You’re doing the avoidant pattern.

    Yes exactly!

     

    And it could lead to breakup with time, specially if she expects a normal level of interest and dedication from the guy. And I guess she does, that’s why she is so upset. So yeah… you’d need to decide what you want. Do you want to challenge your fear, or you want to succumb?

    Well I can try to challenge my fear

    The perfectionist likes to fix people whom he sees inferior than him in some way. It’s more like a defense mechanism, because if you see the person as inferior and in need of fixing, then you feel safe because you feel you’re above them (“better” than them) and therefore, they won’t judge you.

    Ah right also the reason why I don’t feel intimidated around them and not alarmed…But with people “better than me” I do feel intimidated.

    Thinking about your 3-yr long LDR, perhaps the perfectionist in you needed to receive praise and validation from her, because this is something you were missing as a child. But it could be that she didn’t give you too much praise and validation, because you said she often sabotaged your meetings, didn’t listen to your advice etc?

    So I am thinking now that your perfectionist fixer is possibly a reaction to not receiving praise and validation from your parents? And trying to get it now in romantic relationships?

    I do think so it could be like that even though lot of time she did praised me how I’m helping her but all I wanted was seeing a real change and actions which she didn’t.

     

    Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that interview… sorry you didn’t get the job. But then again, at least you’re clear now with what you want: a position with more responsibility, fully remote. How come you’re sticking to fully remote btw? So you’re more flexible with where you live?

    Yes because of the fully remote job flexibility. I also want to start travelling more because I think connecting with nature is really healing for me and I feel so calm. One of the reasons why I’m trying so hard.

    Alright, so you’re doing that Mon-Friday, during working hours? You’re having long naps in the afternoons, and then you need to work late to finish your tasks, right? Perhaps you can introduce a short walk (or even a bike ride) in the afternoon, to freshen you up?

    Yes during work hours! But I’ve tried what you suggested but now I’m feeling sleepy at early evening time 😂

     

    Sure, no problem…

    Thanks. So I’m not sure it’s related to CPTSD. But like just last three times in raw I had nightmares about my family members. First night my father getting angry and then my grandfather and I yelling at each other and then next day while taking a nap, my brother which is surprising because we’re very close to each other and it did felt really unpleasant and depressing. I wasn’t even able to do meditation properly in the morning.

     

    #416518
    Tee
    Participant

    Hey SereneWolf,

    my weekend was fine, thanks. Still doing the same health-wise, so my leisure time isn’t as active as I’d want it to be, and it’s not a good feeling. I hope things will change for the better, sooner than later…

    I guess so yeah and I was just worried so much about her healing that I didn’t even try to look from different perspective, and I believe after a while my “drill sergeant” just started being harsh on her

    Yeah, you got impatient and started pushing her. She didn’t like it, and it was this superior-inferior dynamic, rather than an equal, loving and mutually supportive relationship. But I guess you’ve realized by now that this isn’t how a relationship should be, and that you shouldn’t be the girl’s therapist.

    Haha yeah you do have a good point. But when I was at my hometown tbh only thing I really missed was my cat

    Uh-oh… it’s not good news for the girl then 🙂 Yeah, you said earlier that you find it easier to bond with animals than with humans… If we miss someone, it means we created an attachment (a bond) with them. And I guess since you are afraid of attachment, you don’t easily create a bond… and so you don’t really miss the person either. At least this is how I am understanding it…

    But I think I know the advantages of physical relationship now. We met this Saturday evening, and her anger was gone. She hugged me with good warmth like she actually missed me.

    She did miss you, because she told you so (she wanted to text you to tell you that, but she deleted it). And she was upset that you didn’t text her. So she did miss you indeed… I am glad she isn’t angry with you anymore!

    And we did have a good time together. She even cooked for me. but surprising enough I don’t feel much scared now because I’m not overthinking much and like we talked about mindfulness I’m just trying to enjoy present moments more… Because this different kind of feeling makes me feel like I’m not hard to love then why I’ve been so hard on myself for so long and not being compassionate with myself?

    Great, fantastic that you can enjoy the present moment more, without overthinking too much and being scared. And it’s amazing that you’re realizing you are not hard to love!! That’s wonderful, SereneWolf, really a great development!

    And I think you know the answer to “why have I been so hard on yourself for so long…?” Because of you having being judged and criticized as a child, and developing that harsh inner critic. You were made to believe that you were hard to love, when it’s not true at all. And now, as you’re starting to have more compassion for yourself, you’re starting to feel love for yourself too, and that you’re not hard to love… the inner critic is getting weaker, as well as that old programming…. I am really happy for you!

    There’s good quote from Lord Krishna which I remembered so, Love when you can, Tomorrow isn’t promised. so I’m just reminding myself kind of things like this which could help me for loosen up my heart shield.

    Great! You’re being mindful and repeating those affirmations, and it helps you stay in the present moment, feeling love, rather than fear…. Wow, amazing! I am proud of you, SereneWolf! 🙂

    Well I can try to challenge my fear

    You are already doing it, with all of the above that you’ve described. You’re on the right track!

    Ah right also the reason why I don’t feel intimidated around them and not alarmed…But with people “better than me” I do feel intimidated.

    Yes, you feel intimidated by those you feel “less than”. The goal is to feel “good enough” and worthy always, even if someone is more talented in some areas than you…

    I do think so it could be like that even though lot of time she did praised me how I’m helping her but all I wanted was seeing a real change and actions which she didn’t.

    Right… okay, so perhaps you didn’t seek praise and validation so much. You rather wanted “results”, like the drill sergeant wanting results from the novices. It could be that you adopted the persona of your father a little, who was also quite critical and impatient with you. Only you tried to hide your impatience with your ex, while you father didn’t temper himself at all, he gave you the full power of his anger…

    Yes because of the fully remote job flexibility. I also want to start travelling more because I think connecting with nature is really healing for me and I feel so calm. One of the reasons why I’m trying so hard.

    Okay, wish you luck with finding a good remote job! But while you’re still tied to one place, could you go travel on the weekends and spend time in nature? So reserve the weekends for adventure and “battery charging”?

    Yes during work hours! But I’ve tried what you suggested but now I’m feeling sleepy at early evening time

    Well, maybe your job is a little boring? 🙂 But does it also mean you’re working mostly from home and no need to go to the office?

    But like just last three times in raw I had nightmares about my family members. First night my father getting angry and then my grandfather and I yelling at each other and then next day while taking a nap, my brother which is surprising because we’re very close to each other and it did felt really unpleasant and depressing

    So you dreamed about your father, grandfather, brother and you all getting angry and yelling at each other? Not at the same time, but first your father got angry with you, and then you and your grandfather had a fight, and than in the next dream you and your brother had a fight, right? It could represent anger as the “modus operandi” among the men in your family? And that it affected you as well? I mean, that’s only my suggestion. What do you think it represents?

     

    #416618
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Hey Tee,

    my weekend was fine, thanks. Still doing the same health-wise, so my leisure time isn’t as active as I’d want it to be, and it’s not a good feeling. I hope things will change for the better, sooner than later…

    Oh I hope you’ll be better. You still haven’t found a good doctor?

     

    Yeah, you got impatient and started pushing her. She didn’t like it, and it was this superior-inferior dynamic, rather than an equal, loving and mutually supportive relationship. But I guess you’ve realized by now that this isn’t how a relationship should be, and that you shouldn’t be the girl’s therapist.

    Yup I think I’ve learned my lesson there haha

    Uh-oh… it’s not good news for the girl then Yeah, you said earlier that you find it easier to bond with animals than with humans… If we miss someone, it means we created an attachment (a bond) with them. And I guess since you are afraid of attachment, you don’t easily create a bond… and so you don’t really miss the person either. At least this is how I am understanding it…

    Yes, I think you’ve explained it well. Also most of the time I have to try to blend in around strangers, Other times I’m like what these humans are? How I could even be the same as them? Like I’m some alien 😂

    She did miss you, because she told you so (she wanted to text you to tell you that, but she deleted it). And she was upset that you didn’t text her. So she did miss you indeed… I am glad she isn’t angry with you anymore!

    I’m starting to think there are lot of people who have heart full of love and they would love to share their love but it isn’t easy. It needs guts to trust on that level and vulnerability. And now I’m thinking as like people’s strength. And she certainly have this strength. For me admitting to someone that I miss them is really hard. Heck I don’t even remember when I did that last time.

     

    Great, fantastic that you can enjoy the present moment more, without overthinking too much and being scared. And it’s amazing that you’re realizing you are not hard to love!! That’s wonderful, SereneWolf, really a great development!

    Thanks! you know realizing this makes the process of loving myself little easier. But it made me think like if I rely on that feeling doesn’t it make me dependable? Which is against one of the values that I have. Being self-independent.

     

    And I think you know the answer to “why have I been so hard on yourself for so long…?” Because of you having being judged and criticized as a child, and developing that harsh inner critic. You were made to believe that you were hard to love, when it’s not true at all. And now, as you’re starting to have more compassion for yourself, you’re starting to feel love for yourself too, and that you’re not hard to love… the inner critic is getting weaker, as well as that old programming…. I am really happy for you!

    I agree and after getting stepped up from these old programming I don’t want to step back and just keep rounding for the same things and waste my physical and emotional energy. So I’ll try to spend more time in journaling and convincing my inner child even more. So he doesn’t see this as like bowl of water but more like a river…

    Great! You’re being mindful and repeating those affirmations, and it helps you stay in the present moment, feeling love, rather than fear…. Wow, amazing! I am proud of you, SereneWolf!

    You’ve put quite a time and effort on me as well. So thanks to you too. I’m grateful to have a supportive friend/mentor like you 🙏🏽

     

    Yes, you feel intimidated by those you feel “less than”. The goal is to feel “good enough” and worthy always, even if someone is more talented in some areas than you…

    Yes that’s something I’m struggling with… I feel like I’m threatened or challenged

    Right… okay, so perhaps you didn’t seek praise and validation so much. You rather wanted “results”, like the drill sergeant wanting results from the novices. It could be that you adopted the persona of your father a little, who was also quite critical and impatient with you. Only you tried to hide your impatience with your ex, while you father didn’t temper himself at all, he gave you the full power of his anger…

    Yeah even in work I’m really result-driven. So you’re right I may have adopted his persona. As I’ve told now I’m much better at managing my anger and be calm as possible. Because to be honest after I started practicing spirituality nothing seems like a big deal to me.

     

    Okay, wish you luck with finding a good remote job! But while you’re still tied to one place, could you go travel on the weekends and spend time in nature? So reserve the weekends for adventure and “battery charging”?

    Thanks for your wishes! And I already do that on weekends. But I want to visit different places every weekends not the same places. But yeah it’s true that even though most of the time I’m visiting same places now it doesn’t bore me because spending time in nature does recharge me so well.

    Well, maybe your job is a little boring?   But does it also mean you’re working mostly from home and no need to go to the office?

    My job isn’t boring. Or I guess now it seems boring because I saw more exciting opportunities? haha.. and currently I’m working on hybrid mode. 2 days office and 3 days from home. They wanted the other way like 3 days from office but I convinced them for 2 days lol

    So you dreamed about your father, grandfather, brother and you all getting angry and yelling at each other? Not at the same time, but first your father got angry with you, and then you and your grandfather had a fight, and than in the next dream you and your brother had a fight, right?

    Yes!

    It could represent anger as the “modus operandi” among the men in your family?

    Well all 3 are impatient and gets angry real fast so…
    And that it affected you as well?
    I think for impatient part yeah I guess so
    I mean, that’s only my suggestion. What do you think it represents?

    Umm I’m not sure but I still may have fear? Like still if I want to do something crazy I know they won’t stop me but my mind first think like what they would think about me and judge me or something like that

     

     

    #416657
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi SereneWolf,

    Oh I hope you’ll be better. You still haven’t found a good doctor?

    Next week I have an appointment with a new doctor, so I am hopeful but also slightly apprehensive, because I’ve been to several doctors already and no improvement so far…

    Yup I think I’ve learned my lesson there haha

    Good, that’s an important lesson! 🙂

    Also most of the time I have to try to blend in around strangers, Other times I’m like what these humans are? How I could even be the same as them? Like I’m some alien

    Okay, so you feel very different than others, like you’re some alien. That’s probably because your true self wasn’t appreciated by your parents or grandparents (or other adults you grew up around). You were constantly judged and criticized for being yourself. So you believe that you’re fundamentally different from other people, which isn’t true.

    However, you might have developed a defense mechanism that keeps you away from others and makes you fear others, as if they’re going to harm you. You might be looking at people through that lens, magnifying the differences, seeking imperfections in them etc. This lens, i.e. filter is what actually creates a greater sense of distance between you and others. I think this filter is creating an artificial sense of distance and difference, which in reality doesn’t exist.

    I’m starting to think there are lot of people who have heart full of love and they would love to share their love but it isn’t easy.

    You said is about yourself too (or a friend of yours said it about you, I don’t remember anymore?). They said that you have a heart full of love, but are afraid to share it with others. And it’s true. Because you fear others.

    It needs guts to trust on that level and vulnerability. And now I’m thinking as like people’s strength.

    Yes, vulnerability is actually a strength. There is a famous TED talk on vulnerability by Brene Brown. It describes how she, who was someone who feared vulnerability, discovered the importance of vulnerability, by studying hundreds and thousands of happy people. She discovered that vulnerability is actually a prerequisite for happiness. You can enter “Brene Brown vulnerability TED talk” in youtube search and you’ll find it. Really powerful stuff.

    And she certainly have this strength. For me admitting to someone that I miss them is really hard. Heck I don’t even remember when I did that last time.

    It’s good that she has this strength! Because she won’t be playing games with you. She will tell you what bothers her and what she would like from you.

    But I want to add something here: try not to compare yourself now and think “oh she has this strength and I don’t. I am so much worse than her” (which would be your inner critic). Rather, try to appreciate her for her ability to be vulnerable. You too will develop this strength, and you’re on a path to do that. Because frankly, till recently you thought it was a weakness, and a part of you still thinks it’s a weakness. So it will take some time to change the old habits and beliefs.

    Thanks! you know realizing this makes the process of loving myself little easier. But it made me think like if I rely on that feeling doesn’t it make me dependable? Which is against one of the values that I have. Being self-independent.

    You’re welcome, you are making a great progress! Actually, we humans are social creatures, and we’re meant to be interdependent, not independent. I mean, we’re not meant to be emotionally self-sufficient (if there is such a word). We’re not meant to be in a relationship with only ourselves, and not to be bonded to anyone. Being independent is good up to a point. But if you want to be emotionally independent and self-sufficient, that’s already a defense mechanism.

    I agree and after getting stepped up from these old programming I don’t want to step back and just keep rounding for the same things and waste my physical and emotional energy. So I’ll try to spend more time in journaling and convincing my inner child even more. So he doesn’t see this as like bowl of water but more like a river…

    So last time you said you’re starting to feel that you’re not hard to love. Which is fantastic! Just keep doing that, keep affirming that to yourself.

    The other part of the problem might be that in a relationship, you feel trapped, like a fish in a bowl of water. And I think it could be because you see the other person as a threat. As very different than you. As judging you. As wanting to control you and suppress your true self.

    You probably see the other person as your father, and it’s threatening your freedom, and you want to run away. You want to be free, like a fish in the river. You ran away from home, because of this feeling of being trapped. And now you want to apply the same coping strategy to your romantic relationships: run away, be free from “threat”. Would you say it’s true?

    You’ve put quite a time and effort on me as well. So thanks to you too. I’m grateful to have a supportive friend/mentor like you

    You’re welcome, it’s a pleasure to talk to you and help you on your path…

    Yeah even in work I’m really result-driven. So you’re right I may have adopted his persona. As I’ve told now I’m much better at managing my anger and be calm as possible. Because to be honest after I started practicing spirituality nothing seems like a big deal to me.

    Good that you’re aware of this drill-sergeant persona and are learning how to keep it at bay!

    But I want to visit different places every weekends not the same places. But yeah it’s true that even though most of the time I’m visiting same places now it doesn’t bore me because spending time in nature does recharge me so well.

    Yeah, I find that visiting the same places in nature – the places that I like and enjoy – is totally okay, because they recharge me. And they are never the same, really, there is always something different to appreciate…

    My job isn’t boring. Or I guess now it seems boring because I saw more exciting opportunities? haha.. and currently I’m working on hybrid mode. 2 days office and 3 days from home. They wanted the other way like 3 days from office but I convinced them for 2 days lol

    Glad your job isn’t boring. Then I guess simply spending time at home, comfortably seated in front of your computer, and being alone, naturally makes the person want to take a nap 🙂 If you were in the office, you would need to control yourself better, but like this, it’s easier to just doze off… So if you want to avoid afternoon slumps, I guess one solution would be to work from the office more frequently 🙂

    Umm I’m not sure but I still may have fear? Like still if I want to do something crazy I know they won’t stop me but my mind first think like what they would think about me and judge me or something like that

    Okay, so you’re still afraid of their judgment? Both your father’s, grandfather’s and your brother’s judgment as well? Btw what’s that “something crazy” that you’d want to do, but are reluctant to (if it’s not too much to ask)?

     

    #416778
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Hi Tee,

    Next week I have an appointment with a new doctor, so I am hopeful but also slightly apprehensive, because I’ve been to several doctors already and no improvement so far…

    Oh I see, I can understand but who knows maybe this one can give you much better results? So be hopeful. Update me when you do give a visit though.

     

    Okay, so you feel very different than others, like you’re some alien. That’s probably because your true self wasn’t appreciated by your parents or grandparents (or other adults you grew up around). You were constantly judged and criticized for being yourself. So you believe that you’re fundamentally different from other people, which isn’t true.

    However, you might have developed a defense mechanism that keeps you away from others and makes you fear others, as if they’re going to harm you. You might be looking at people through that lens, magnifying the differences, seeking imperfections in them etc. This lens, i.e. filter is what actually creates a greater sense of distance between you and others. I think this filter is creating an artificial sense of distance and difference, which in reality doesn’t exist.

    Hmm that’s right. Is that could the same reason I can’t spend longer time around the crowds? Because it just drains my energy…

    You said is about yourself too (or a friend of yours said it about you, I don’t remember anymore?). They said that you have a heart full of love, but are afraid to share it with others. And it’s true. Because you fear others.

    Ah yeah my friend told me about this for myself. But yeah I agree there is fear

    Yes, vulnerability is actually a strength. There is a famous TED talk on vulnerability by Brene Brown. It describes how she, who was someone who feared vulnerability, discovered the importance of vulnerability, by studying hundreds and thousands of happy people. She discovered that vulnerability is actually a prerequisite for happiness. You can enter “Brene Brown vulnerability TED talk” in youtube search and you’ll find it. Really powerful stuff.

    Thanks for sharing I’ll watch the video. Turns out it was already on my watchlist but I still haven’t watched it. Still lot of articles left to read as well. Don’t know where the time is going lol 😂

    It’s good that she has this strength! Because she won’t be playing games with you. She will tell you what bothers her and what she would like from you.

    Hmm I hope so… She seems quite sensitive

    But I want to add something here: try not to compare yourself now and think “oh she has this strength and I don’t. I am so much worse than her” (which would be your inner critic). Rather, try to appreciate her for her ability to be vulnerable. You too will develop this strength, and you’re on a path to do that. Because frankly, till recently you thought it was a weakness, and a part of you still thinks it’s a weakness. So it will take some time to change the old habits and beliefs.

    Oh yeah you’re right I’m not comparing and I am aware that I’m capable for cultivating good emotional patterns for myself (Or at least I’m trying)

    You’re welcome, you are making a great progress! Actually, we humans are social creatures, and we’re meant to be interdependent, not independent. I mean, we’re not meant to be emotionally self-sufficient (if there is such a word). We’re not meant to be in a relationship with only ourselves, and not to be bonded to anyone. Being independent is good up to a point. But if you want to be emotionally independent and self-sufficient, that’s already a defense mechanism.

    Wow! So this challenged me for lot of things that I’ve consumed in reading and watching over the years. And kind of really challenging for my old belief. But If you have any recommendations for articles or videos or just you want to explain by yourself you can elaborate more this with me. Because I do understand what you mean but I don’t have clear picture just for meta thinking with myself you know

     

    The other part of the problem might be that in a relationship, you feel trapped, like a fish in a bowl of water. And I think it could be because you see the other person as a threat. As very different than you. As judging you. As wanting to control you and suppress your true self.

    Yes exactly I do feel trapped one of the reasons I’m scared for commitment. But mainly for controlling because their actions would affect me a lot emotionally. Like if my partner is anxious or sad it affects me directly.

    You probably see the other person as your father, and it’s threatening your freedom, and you want to run away. You want to be free, like a fish in the river. You ran away from home, because of this feeling of being trapped. And now you want to apply the same coping strategy to your romantic relationships: run away, be free from “threat”. Would you say it’s true?

    I don’t know if I see other person as my father because then I believe I wouldn’t even want spend lot of time with.. I don’t know how to explain properly but yeah I guess I’m running away because that feeling. But there are other reasons as well. Like It’s my curiosity so I’m just striving for exploring more and novelty so I don’t feel like I’m missing out..

     

    You’re welcome, it’s a pleasure to talk to you and help you on your path…

    Haha I’m glad. Currently what kind of emotional patterns that you’re working on?

     

    Yeah, I find that visiting the same places in nature – the places that I like and enjoy – is totally okay, because they recharge me. And they are never the same, really, there is always something different to appreciate…

    Totally agree and sometimes it kind of gives me solutions out of nowhere have you experienced it before?

    Glad your job isn’t boring. Then I guess simply spending time at home, comfortably seated in front of your computer, and being alone, naturally makes the person want to take a nap   If you were in the office, you would need to control yourself better, but like this, it’s easier to just doze off… So if you want to avoid afternoon slumps, I guess one solution would be to work from the office more frequently

    Haha I don’t think that’s a good idea since being around with lot of people for a while takes up my energy a lot. Heck even if it’s just a single person and if I don’t like spending time with him/her it just drains me. Same goes for outside work as well. But I’m aware as for my position I do have to learn to overcome this challenge.

    Okay, so you’re still afraid of their judgment? Both your father’s, grandfather’s and your brother’s judgment as well? Btw what’s that “something crazy” that you’d want to do, but are reluctant to (if it’s not too much to ask)?

    Hmm so I’m thinking about getting a tattoo. And my grandfather is always saying “not nice” things about getting tattoos so whenever I think about getting a tattoo for few minutes I do feel good and think about ideas and etc and after that I overthink what would my grandfather say? Sure he wouldn’t like it.. same for my father.

    And actually a while ago I stopped this kind of thinking what others or even my own family is thinking about me but I think I’m kind of back to this

     

    #416845
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi SereneWolf,

    Hmm that’s right. Is that could the same reason I can’t spend longer time around the crowds? Because it just drains my energy…

    Yes, definitely. I mean, a part of the problem could be that you’re an introvert and you don’t feel good in large crowds (I am like that too!). But a part of the problem could be that you see people as different, and yourself as alien, and this might contribute to feeling trapped or endangered in some way.

    Hmm I hope so… She seems quite sensitive

    In what sense? Can you give me an example?

    Oh yeah you’re right I’m not comparing and I am aware that I’m capable for cultivating good emotional patterns for myself (Or at least I’m trying)

    Great! At least you’re aware what to watch out for, and even if you start comparing yourself with others, you can recognize it as an inner critic mechanism, and know that it’s a lie, it’s an illusion, not reality.

    Wow! So this challenged me for lot of things that I’ve consumed in reading and watching over the years. And kind of really challenging for my old belief. But If you have any recommendations for articles or videos or just you want to explain by yourself you can elaborate more this with me. Because I do understand what you mean but I don’t have clear picture just for meta thinking with myself you know

    Well, this term “emotional self-sufficiency” just kind of came to me, I haven’t read it anywhere. I did look it up now and it has both positive and negative connotations. But what I meant is that we are wired for connection (Henry Cloud’s video “Why it’s important to stay connected” talks about it. I mentioned it a while ago and I think you watched it).

    Healthy relationships are good for our health and well-being. For example, married men live longer. And for women, those women live longer who have a network of supportive friendships. So emotional giving and receiving is very important. In that sense I said that emotional self-sufficiency isn’t a good thing: it’s not good if we don’t have emotional exchange and connection with anyone. And if we guard ourselves from it.

    It doesn’t mean we should be needy and clingy. Someone who is alone can be happy and fulfilled too. But someone who is emotionally healthy will not guard themselves from emotional closeness with safe and supportive people. Because that’s what makes our life richer and more enjoyable…

    Yes exactly I do feel trapped one of the reasons I’m scared for commitment. But mainly for controlling because their actions would affect me a lot emotionally. Like if my partner is anxious or sad it affects me directly.

    So you’re afraid you wouldn’t know how to react if your partner is sad or anxious?

    I don’t know if I see other person as my father because then I believe I wouldn’t even want spend lot of time with.. I don’t know how to explain properly but yeah I guess I’m running away because that feeling.

    I guess you’re filtering out the very strict and judgmental types automatically – you’re not attracted to that type of girls. I mean, your current girlfriend is self-confident, but she’s probably not judgmental like your father, so it doesn’t trigger the escape reflex immediately?

    But there are other reasons as well. Like It’s my curiosity so I’m just striving for exploring more and novelty so I don’t feel like I’m missing out..

    I think that’s just an excuse. Because there are girls who like traveling and exploring similarly like you. Maybe girls wouldn’t appreciate some reckless feats, if that’s what you’re into. But definitely there are adventurous types out there, with whom you wouldn’t need to miss out on anything.

    Haha I’m glad. Currently what kind of emotional patterns that you’re working on?

    Staying positive and optimistic in spite of persistent health problems and chronic pain….

    Totally agree and sometimes it kind of gives me solutions out of nowhere have you experienced it before?

    Absolutely yes. It’s when our rational mind is not in the forefront, and we’re in touch with our senses and our intuition… that’s when the best ideas come…

    Haha I don’t think that’s a good idea since being around with lot of people for a while takes up my energy a lot. Heck even if it’s just a single person and if I don’t like spending time with him/her it just drains me. Same goes for outside work as well.

    Maybe this is same problem that you were talking about above – you don’t like crowds because they drain your energy? But maybe it can be applied to certain people too – they drain your energy and you don’t know how to protect yourself from that?

    As for not falling asleep in the afternoon, how about watching some of those videos on your watch list? 🙂 (Turns out it was already on my watchlist but I still haven’t watched it.) Because for me, such videos (not all, but with good presenters) can be quite captivating and not something I’d doze off with 🙂

    Hmm so I’m thinking about getting a tattoo. And my grandfather is always saying “not nice” things about getting tattoos so whenever I think about getting a tattoo for few minutes I do feel good and think about ideas and etc and after that I overthink what would my grandfather say? Sure he wouldn’t like it.. same for my father.

    I see… well, how big of a tattoo are you planning? If it’s huge and sort of “in your face”, it might not be good from a business perspective either – if you want to present yourself as a solid business person. But if it’s something more discrete, it’s very common nowadays and not a big deal. And if it would make you happy, why not…

     

    #416868
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Hi Tee,

    Yes, definitely. I mean, a part of the problem could be that you’re an introvert and you don’t feel good in large crowds (I am like that too!). But a part of the problem could be that you see people as different, and yourself as alien, and this might contribute to feeling trapped or endangered in some way.

    Well yeah you’re right and that’s why these days I do try to socialize more. (As an experiment) That’s why I noticed that and I told you… I’m just too much comfortable with my own company but I do need to get out of my comfort zone without draining my energy. And I’m an ambivert.

    In what sense? Can you give me an example?

    Like for me I’m not much emotionally expressive. Or like I just don’t get surprised with lot of human behaviour or things. I find it really normal. But her she like really emotionally expressive like a high school girl who feels too much you know 😂

    Great! At least you’re aware what to watch out for, and even if you start comparing yourself with others, you can recognize it as an inner critic mechanism, and know that it’s a lie, it’s an illusion, not reality.

    Yes! And before there was time where I used to just blindly believe everything my inner critical voice told me because I didn’t know the difference between my own self and inner critical voice.

     

    Well, this term “emotional self-sufficiency” just kind of came to me, I haven’t read it anywhere. I did look it up now and it has both positive and negative connotations. But what I meant is that we are wired for connection (Henry Cloud’s video “Why it’s important to stay connected” talks about it. I mentioned it a while ago and I think you watched it).

    I see but this term is pretty self-explanatory so I get it, And Yes I’ve watched the video and I told you that I’m mostly between good connection to no connection back and forth

    Healthy relationships are good for our health and well-being. For example, married men live longer. And for women, those women live longer who have a network of supportive friendships. So emotional giving and receiving is very important. In that sense I said that emotional self-sufficiency isn’t a good thing: it’s not good if we don’t have emotional exchange and connection with anyone. And if we guard ourselves from it.

    It doesn’t mean we should be needy and clingy. Someone who is alone can be happy and fulfilled too. But someone who is emotionally healthy will not guard themselves from emotional closeness with safe and supportive people. Because that’s what makes our life richer and more enjoyable…

    Hmm I see so you mean there should be a good balance right?

     

    So you’re afraid you wouldn’t know how to react if your partner is sad or anxious?

    I mean I know what to do but I just overreact in those particular situations and try to make them in better state ASAP otherwise I feel anxious as well.

     

    I guess you’re filtering out the very strict and judgmental types automatically – you’re not attracted to that type of girls. I mean, your current girlfriend is self-confident, but she’s probably not judgmental like your father, so it doesn’t trigger the escape reflex immediately?

     

    Haha I don’t remember I’ve been with any strict and judgmental type girl even as female or male friend. Creating the good supportive circle you know? 😌
    But I think that possibility of turn this into something else is just scaring me like what If I like her more with time? Or what if I feel bored with her after some time? And like what if she is not on the same page as me? So questions like this as well her different but confident persona is something I feel…

    I think that’s just an excuse. Because there are girls who like traveling and exploring similarly like you. Maybe girls wouldn’t appreciate some reckless feats, if that’s what you’re into. But definitely there are adventurous types out there, with whom you wouldn’t need to miss out on anything.

    Well yeah I know but because I still haven’t met those types girls much it’s just my old belief I guess

    Staying positive and optimistic in spite of persistent health problems and chronic pain….

    Inner and outer you’re dealing with both of these things which isn’t easy at all. I’m proud of you and I hope you progress better and healthier way with that. 🤗

    Absolutely yes. It’s when our rational mind is not in the forefront, and we’re in touch with our senses and our intuition… that’s when the best ideas come…

    Yup. I love it!

    Maybe this is same problem that you were talking about above – you don’t like crowds because they drain your energy? But maybe it can be applied to certain people too – they drain your energy and you don’t know how to protect yourself from that?

    Yes exactly and I don’t know how to protect myself from that for sure!

    As for not falling asleep in the afternoon, how about watching some of those videos on your watch list?   (Turns out it was already on my watchlist but I still haven’t watched it.) Because for me, such videos (not all, but with good presenters) can be quite captivating and not something I’d doze off with.

    I agree! And turns out I already watched that video and when we were talking about implementing new things for fresher employees. Video was one of the reason for that idea! Also it made me think deeper about vulnerability as well as empathy. And how important connection is… But another thing I liked about the video is the storytelling. As a Leader I think it’s really important skill to cultivate.

     

    I see… well, how big of a tattoo are you planning? If it’s huge and sort of “in your face”, it might not be good from a business perspective either – if you want to present yourself as a solid business person. But if it’s something more discrete, it’s very common nowadays and not a big deal. And if it would make you happy, why not…

     

    Haha Nothing that shows too much. Like not on the face or neck. But l prefer around the shoulder, back, hands, biceps and maybe chest.  But yeah mostly desecrate. Yeah I know it’s normal nowadays but there are two things. One judgment from my family and another thing is that gaining enough weight so tattoos look much better. Have you got any tattoos though?

     

    #416897
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi SereneWolf,

    Well yeah you’re right and that’s why these days I do try to socialize more. (As an experiment) That’s why I noticed that and I told you… I’m just too much comfortable with my own company but I do need to get out of my comfort zone without draining my energy. And I’m an ambivert.

    Definitely it’s a good experiment to try to socialize more and see how you feel about people… if you still feel they’re very different and you feel like an alien? I had to look up what an ambivert means…it seems like a balanced type, best of both worlds.

    Like for me I’m not much emotionally expressive. Or like I just don’t get surprised with lot of human behaviour or things. I find it really normal. But her she like really emotionally expressive like a high school girl who feels too much you know

    Are you saying that she gets upset by something (some human behavior), and this same behavior doesn’t affect you that much? Or she gets super excited about something, and you’re like “meh, nothing special”?

    Yes! And before there was time where I used to just blindly believe everything my inner critical voice told me because I didn’t know the difference between my own self and inner critical voice.

    Great that you now know the difference and don’t believe everything your inner critic is telling you!

    And Yes I’ve watched the video and I told you that I’m mostly between good connection to no connection back and forth

    And there was also a bad connection, I’d say, during your LDR. Because that relationship was mostly frustrating for you, right?

    Hmm I see so you mean there should be a good balance right?

    Yes, for example we should love ourselves and feel lovable, without needing to get love from someone else. Or we shouldn’t feel helpless like a child and wait for someone else to fix our problems. I think those are examples of emotional self-sufficiency.

    I mean I know what to do but I just overreact in those particular situations and try to make them in better state ASAP otherwise I feel anxious as well.

    Yeah, you’d probably like to fix the problem ASAP and make them stop (crying, or being upset or whatever). Whereas the best thing you can do is to simply listen and show empathy. You don’t need to fix anything, and your partner doesn’t even want it, in most cases. They only want empathy and understanding (remember that short video about the nail in the head? 🙂 )

    Haha I don’t remember I’ve been with any strict and judgmental type girl even as female or male friend. Creating the good supportive circle you know?

    Oh I see… you’re filtering all critical and unsupportive people from your life… cool! good strategy!

    But I think that possibility of turn this into something else is just scaring me like what If I like her more with time?

    Okay, so you can ask yourself: what if I like her more with time? What’s the worst thing that can happen?

    Or what if I feel bored with her after some time? And like what if she is not on the same page as me?

    Okay, you can ask yourself: what if I feel bored over time? What would I do? What are the options I have?

    So questions like this as well her different but confident persona is something I feel…

    She is different than the usual type you’re attracted to (insecure, low self-esteem). I think that’s what’s scary because you can’t apply the usual tactics of your outer critic, which would be to see her as inferior and imperfect (which would then serve as an excuse to distance yourself from her). The inner critic is trying to sabotage you, by telling you you are worse than her in some respects. But nowadays you’re watching for the inner critic and you’re not believing everything it says. So the inner critic isn’t managing to sabotage the relationship so easily either…

    But something in you (hint: the inner child) is still afraid, and so you’re coming up with these what-if questions, which serve the same purpose: to sabotage the relationship. My suggestion is to notice that too: that these what-if hypothetical questions serve the same purpose, and so not to give too much weight to them. If you want to try to push through the fear some more…

    Inner and outer you’re dealing with both of these things which isn’t easy at all. I’m proud of you and I hope you progress better and healthier way with that

    Thank you! Yes, it’s hard when it gets physical, when it’s your body that aches and there is no escape from pain. I feel that I could much more easily deal with emotional pain than with physical pain. Because I can’t just think about it differently, so that it doesn’t cause pain any more. Although I think I can still be telling myself a positive, optimistic story, or I can be telling myself a negative, hopeless story (like that I’ll never get better). And that too makes a difference… But it’s hard, there’s no doubt about it…

    Yes exactly and I don’t know how to protect myself from that for sure!

    What’s the worst kind of behavior that you feel you can’t protect yourself from?

    Haha Nothing that shows too much. Like not on the face or neck. But l prefer around the shoulder, back, hands, biceps and maybe chest. But yeah mostly desecrate. Yeah I know it’s normal nowadays but there are two things. One judgment from my family and another thing is that gaining enough weight so tattoos look much better. Have you got any tattoos though?

    No, I don’t have any tattoos. Not my style, and besides, I’ve got many birthmarks, so I’d worry about damaging those. So no, no tattoos for me 🙂

    If you worry about how the tattoo will look, I’d choose a spot which doesn’t depend on your muscular mass. So somewhere where it always looks the same, regardless of how fit you are 🙂

     

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