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  • #386159
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea:

    Help me make sense of this“- the three characters in the story you presented are: the man Timeoidea (T), the man- friend (M), and the woman former girlfriend (W).

    There is another story with 3 characters, its titled The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, a story that led to a screenplay and to a 1966 Italian film. Using this title so to make sense of your 3-character story: T is always The Good from the beginning and throughout the four pages of the story. M and W alternate between The Bad and The Ugly.

    In the following quotes from your story, I will change the pronouns you used into T, M and W:

    “M became jealous and angry about W ‘replacing’ M… M played a big part in tearing T&W apart, as M himself confirmed..  M always tried to monopolize T’s time/attention and highly disliked it when T spent them on somebody else… M often complained that T wasn’t giving him enough of myself… T had to erect barriers to fend off M’s possessive behavior…. there were times where M was very unstable or borderline suicidal over T.. driving at night while on substances and no intent of coming back… M himself voiced that he tried to make W break up with T… W’s been manipulated too.. it seems W’s been telling T&M two different stories or outright lying, and W been demonizing T in M’s eyes, unsurprisingly. Although T can also see that M influenced and manipulated W as well, putting W against T”-

    – T has been torn between two lovers, trying to .. erect barriers. He is always The Good, never contributes to a bad situation.. always the Victim of the Bad and the Ugly. At first M was The Bad and W was The Ugly (a co-victim of M, and just a bit guilty). Later, W is The Bad and M is The Ugly.

    More quotes: “W will continue to demonize and push T away due to that hatred against T (that) M’s injecting into W.. T came to the conclusion that W suffers from the Covert version of NPD (Narcissist Personality Disorder).What happened with M was probably just W procuring W’s new supply beforehand by separating M from, and putting against T. Feeling candid now, T’s realized just how much W manipulated, led on and gaslit T…When W did the 180 and got in with M, W began to attack T’s whole personality and character (the same W fell madly in love with)”-

    – At first W is a co-victim who’s guilty (The Ugly) and W is The Bad, a Narcissist, the most guilty. Later, W is The Bad. T is unquestionably The Good throughout.

    More quotes: “The plan was for T to move to W’s country where W’s house is being built.. T’s legal and economic situations are very convoluted.. T&W had the plan B or simply marrying to get T out of this swamp..  without going into specifics…W sees M as some sort of ‘victim’ who needs to be saved…T became some sort of boogeyman in W’s eyes when it comes to M.. M constantly said that the story W told him is quite different, that T’s lying and making things up, that M trusts her and not T”, “W also went back on all her words and promises, including helping T“.

    The story you told is loosely based on a true story and what is in boldface is that loose connection to the truth of the story. My best guess is that T is in some legal and financial Trouble that he created, he wanted W to help him out of his Trouble, tried to use her for that purpose. T also tried to use M for the same purpose. M and W bonded over both being co-victims (of T), and .. T is angry at both, but also very forgiving if they only apologize.. because he still needs them so to resolve his Trouble= his “very convoluted” “legal and economic situations“.

    anita

    #386163
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    That’s quite the twist but I can assure you it’s nothing like that.

    To begin with, M was never involved in my life to such a degree and has never been asked for anything. Likewise, W herself wanted to help me with zeal (and I have never asked for it either) because she wanted me close, in her life.

    #386164
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea:

    Well, I hope my “quite the twist”, as you referred to it, or “my best guess” as I referred to it- was at least entertaining to someone reading it. It was interesting for me to come up with it, following studying your posts. I hope things work out for all the people involved in the real story!

    anita

    #386165
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    All the theories are appreciated nevertheless.

    The ultimate reason though, going by the words of both M an W, was my “horrid treatment” of M. Although no explanation or evidence was ever presented by either of them, and every time I pressed the issue, they changed the topic or gaslit me further.
    My conscience is clear there as I know for a fact that if anything, I’ve been way too soft with him.
    The only one who actually was abused during this conflict, was W, by M, as I’ve had to wipe her tears and comfort her over it many times.

    #386185
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    My conscience is clear there as I know for a fact that if anything, I’ve been way too soft with him.

    I believe you, since from what you’ve described, he was piggybacking on you: you invited him to a project, and then he behaved irresponsibly and endangered the whole project, and with it, your livelihood too:

    There was a project to which I invited him, that would then support my living. There he mostly alienated people with his reckless behavior and tried to defend himself when I told him to stop. He also kept making promises of helping me with this and that but never actually did anything I asked him of, even simple tasks, then complained about me “leaving him out of the decision making” when he himself barely engaged, had no idea about what was going on, encouraged me to drop the project and even went MIA for months.

    I didn’t get the impression that you wanted him to help you with your “living situation” (which was the greatest cause of disagreement with your ex girlfriend), but rather, that it was him who depended on you, not vice versa.

    One thing I noticed, specially now, after your latest reply to anita, is that you seem to be somewhat detached from your emotions. You weren’t the least upset with her interpretation of your problem, but you said:

    That’s quite the twist but I can assure you it’s nothing like that.

    All the theories are appreciated nevertheless.

    Why would an alternative explanation, which has little or no truth in it, be equally appreciated as the truth? Why doesn’t it bother you more that someone claims something about you that isn’t true? I wonder if you had to suppress your anger and hurt, sometimes long ago, and that’s why you end up tolerating people like your “friend”, not saying anything for the sake of loyalty?

    Just to add, I don’t think anita was wrong for suggesting this “alternative truth”. I am just pointing out that your reaction is surprisingly calm and agreeable, and perhaps it’s something worth exploring…

     

    #386211
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    I’ve been dealing with so much emotional and physical pain, gaslighting and nightmares during these past two months that it indeed took a toll. One starts to doubt even their own existence and perception of things.

    #386214
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    I’ve been dealing with so much emotional and physical pain, gaslighting and nightmares during these past two months that it indeed took a toll. One starts to doubt even their own existence and perception of things.

    Right. You were a victim in this, you were abused, but when anita suggested the alternative explanation, you kind of backed off and said:

    The only one who actually was abused during this conflict, was W, by M, as I’ve had to wipe her tears and comfort her over it many times.

    It wasn’t just W who was abused. You too were abused, both by him and then by her. And it seems to me that you have been abused by your “friend” for years. For starters, perhaps you should acknowledge it to yourself  – that you were abused by him?

     

    #386249
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    For starters, perhaps you should acknowledge it to yourself – that you were abused by him?”

    I guess I can, although I wouldn’t call his behavior prior to this accident abusive, troublesome yes. When all of this went down though, he did abuse me through her for sure.

    #386254
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    I guess I can, although I wouldn’t call his behavior prior to this accident abusive, troublesome yes.

    I looked up now the definition of emotional abuse:

    “Emotional abuse is a way to control another person by using emotions to criticize, embarrass, shame, blame, or otherwise manipulate another person. In general, a relationship is emotionally abusive when there is a consistent pattern of abusive words and bullying behaviors that wear down a person’s self-esteem and undermine their mental health.
    Emotional abuse is one of the hardest forms of abuse to recognize. It can be subtle and insidious or overt and manipulative. Either way, it chips away at the victim’s self-esteem and they begin to doubt their perceptions and reality.”

    So blaming is a form of emotional abuse. You said your “friend” used to blame you for not spending even more time with him (although he was already monopolizing your time and criticizing your other friends). When I asked you whether you felt guilt around him, you answered:

    Perhaps I did to a degree as he often complained that I wasn’t giving him enough of myself even though he was trying his hardest to be the best friend. What I felt though is that I had to erect barriers to fend off his possessive behavior. Yet I still cared a lot about his wellbeing and such.

    He also threatened to kill himself if you cut contact for even a few days:

    I must also say that there were times where he was very unstable or borderline suicidal over me telling him to cool off and cutting contact for a few days.

    He didn’t outright voice such a threat but did something which could be considered rather suicidal (driving at night while on substances and no intent of coming back) and communicated it to me.

    I felt a strong worry of course and resumed contact. However I’ve been very stern and distanced with him after that, which he didn’t take well.

    Threatening to kill oneself is also a form of emotional abuse, I believe. It’s a form of manipulation. Because you cared about him, you of course tried to prevent him from harming himself, and so you gave in to his request – you resumed contact. So he manipulated you into doing something you didn’t want to do.

    I’d say he emotionally abused you in at least three ways: 1) by demanding constant contact with you and monopolizing your time, 2) by blaming you for spending time with your other friends and criticizing them, and by 3) threatening to kill himself if you cut contact.

    He sort of held you hostage, and even though you tried to “erect barriers to fend off his possessive behavior”, you didn’t quite manage because you feared that he’d kill himself – you feared for his life and well-being. Do you see now that his behavior wasn’t just troublesome, but also abusive towards you?

     

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 15 hours ago by TeaK.
    #386256
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    Hmm, you do have a point there. Maybe I am slowly opening my eyes.

    What’s curious is that both of them started to blame me for “abusing” him, when he actually was the one who abused both her and me.
    I do agree that there were times I’ve been cold, stern or avoidant with him and perhaps I could have handled it better, but I do have to say that he pushed my patience to its limits there, and I’m generally very patient.

    #386261
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    Hmm, you do have a point there. Maybe I am slowly opening my eyes.

    Good, because in that same article (on verywellmind . com), it says that one form of emotional abuse is having unrealistic expectations. Some examples are: “making unreasonable demands of you, expecting you to put everything aside and meet their needs, demanding you spend all of your time together, being dissatisfied no matter how hard you try or how much you give”. You were subject to all of the above… Plus, of course the threats to kill himself, which as I read now, goes under emotional  blackmail – which is another form of emotional abuse.

    What’s curious is that both of them started to blame me for “abusing” him, when he actually was the one who abused both her and me.

    Well, he presented himself as the victim, not just to your ex, but to you as well, when you were still friends. When you tried to cut back on contact, he would complain that he was trying to be the best friend, and this is how you thank him. In other situations too he had no self-criticism, it was always someone else’s fault. It’s no wonder that he told his own version of the “truth” to your ex. He was of course the victim and the innocent one, and you were the bully.

    I do agree that there were times I’ve been cold, stern or avoidant with him and perhaps I could have handled it better, but I do have to say that he pushed my patience to its limits there, and I’m generally very patient.

    You were trying to protect yourself, because he just wouldn’t back off. Asking him nicely didn’t work…  so no wonder you’d occasionally lose your temper. And then he probably used those moments as a “proof” that you’re selfish, impatient, cold, cruel, etc…

     

    #386274
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    “making unreasonable demands of you, expecting you to put everything aside and meet their needs, demanding you spend all of your time together, being dissatisfied no matter how hard you try or how much you give”

    Now that I think back, she also put me through this, especially the first and the last parts. I didn’t mind/notice it back then as I was madly in love but she was pretty unfair when it comes to her expectations while knowing my hardships (and not doing much if anything about those even though she could have easily) and consuming most of my free time.

    #386280
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    she was pretty unfair when it comes to her expectations while knowing my hardships (and not doing much if anything about those even though she could have easily) and consuming most of my free time.

    That’s interesting, perhaps she was like him in some aspects, and that’s why they “clicked”. It still may be true what I suggested earlier that she had some resentments against you (“being dissatisfied no matter how hard you tried or how much you gave”), but didn’t share them openly with you. But when he came along, he confirmed her view of you, and that’s when things started going down..

    One thing I find curious is that on one hand, she didn’t want to help you with your hardships (“not doing much if anything about those even though she could have easily“), but you also said this:

    W herself wanted to help me with zeal (and I have never asked for it either) because she wanted me close, in her life.

    So did she want you help you zealously or not? Have you asked for her help or not?

     

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 2 hours ago by TeaK.
    #386284
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    “So did she want you help you zealously or not? Have you asked for her help or not?”

    She said she did, in fact she strongly insisted on it when she was getting to know me. It isn’t something I wanted at the beginning as I didn’t want her to deal with my issues, I didn’t ask her for anything.
    She kept pushing it though, and ultimately I decided to do a leap of faith and accept her in my life fully as it all seemed so genuine. She got heavily involved in my and my family’s life, making plans and promises of a life together and of helping my family.
    In the end, all that projected support was pulled from under my feet as she did the 180 switch. I don’t want to get into too many details but her plans and promises caused harm to me and my family as ultimately absolutely nothing happened. When she saw me struggle, she very rarely offered any help at all but was happily consuming my time and energy every day.

    • This reply was modified 3 days, 19 hours ago by Tineoidea.
    • This reply was modified 3 days, 19 hours ago by Tineoidea.
    #386287
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    She kept pushing it though, and ultimately I decided to do a leap of faith and accept her in my life fully as it all seemed so genuine. She got heavily involved in my and my family’s life, making plans and promises of a life together and of helping my family.

    I see. So she made promises to you (I assume to help solve your convoluted legal and economic situation?), but then backed off when she got together with your former friend. But it seems she started betraying you, i.e. going back on her word, already earlier, when she saw your hardships and didn’t do anything to help you, even if she could. So signs of betrayal or a certain withdrawal were there already before she met your “friend”,  they just escalated with him. Would you say that’s true?

    And also, you said she was making unreasonable demands on you, but you were too much in love to notice it. Could you give one example of such an unreasonable demand?

     

    • This reply was modified 3 days, 19 hours ago by TeaK.
Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 98 total)

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