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  • #386289
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    “So signs of betrayal or a certain withdrawal were there already before she met your “friend”, they just escalated with him. Would you say that’s true?”

    I would say so, yes. She did let me down multiple times and even didn’t do things she said she wants to and will.
    I assume she was already more than full of my love and affection at a point was just waiting for an opportunity to jump into a new train so she didn’t feel like keeping the full pretense of wanting to help me anymore.
    Why would she monkey branch towards somebody who abused and disrespected her and me both, whom she constantly criticized and knew nothing about though? That’s a mystery but I don’t think it’s the sign of a healthy mind.

    “And also, you said she was making unreasonable demands on you, but you were too much in love to notice it. Could you give one example of such an unreasonable demand?”

    Things such as expecting me to both work on multiple things at once while giving her my full attention and most of my day as she was well aware that I was barely getting a few hours of sleep a day for months and months.
    Or blaming me for not solving the conflict between her and my “friend” in a proper way and for putting her through it even though she herself constantly tried to interact with him while he wanted nothing to do with her, I told her to stop and she herself said it’s hurting her and she should stop.

     

     

    #386290
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    Perhaps this is worth mentioning but when our relationship started, she flaunted her wealth in front of me, told me how easy is it for her to help me financially, to not worry about anything, that money is just a commodity she can easily put on the table and that what’s hers, is also mine so I don’t have to feel bad about it, that we’ll be living in her house that’s being built and she also invited me to take part in picking the furniture, decoration, etc.
    Like I said already, I have never asked about her finances or for any of this, she herself pushed it strongly. I kept refusing this “help” for quite some time until she finally made me cave in with that projected honesty, then me and my family got involved and blindsided by her “plans”.

    I have a strong feeling that she’s already doing the same with my “friend” and he sort of subtly confirmed it.

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 3 hours ago by Tineoidea.
    • This reply was modified 4 days, 3 hours ago by Tineoidea.
    #386293
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    the following is what I wrote before seeing your latest post, about her flaunting her wealth:

     

    She did let me down multiple times and even didn’t do things she said she wants to and will.

    It could be that she even sabotaged herself in some things. There are people who promise a lot and never deliver. And they promise too much because they want to be liked by others. When they don’t keep their word, people get disappointed in them. That’s self-sabotage because they get the opposite effect of what they originally wanted: to be liked.

    I don’t know if that’s the case with her, and what her motives were, but she might be someone who wants to be liked by everyone? In the beginning she might have been making all those promises, perhaps even to be liked by your family, and then she didn’t deliver on them – either because she self-sabotaged, or because she already started having doubts about you and started to withdraw.

    Things such as expecting me to both work on multiple things at once while giving her my full attention and most of my day as she was well aware that I was barely getting a few hours of sleep a day for months and months.

    That’s quite insensitive and selfish of her. How did you react to those requests?

    Or blaming me for not solving the conflict between her and my “friend” in a proper way and for putting her through it even though she herself constantly tried to interact with him while he wanted nothing to do with her, I told her to stop and she herself said it’s hurting her and she should stop.

    Perhaps her need to be liked by everyone is what actually motivated her to reach out to him – because she wanted him to like her?

    And now addition after having read your latest post: she might have a subtle belief that people only like her for her wealth, but still she uses it to attract them and make herself more appealing. But also there is a deep conflict in her that they don’t like her for her “true self”, and so after a while she gets disappointed in the relationship and starts withdrawing her love, i.e. her money. It can all be her projection – not reality – that you don’t love her truly but are only after her money. If someone is super uncertain of themselves, they can invent an alternate reality.

     

     

    #386294
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    “I don’t know if that’s the case with her, and what her motives were, but she might be someone who wants to be liked by everyone?”

    Her apparent motive was that she wanted me close, to live together and to help me out so I can fend for myself and not struggle anymore.

    That’s quite insensitive and selfish of her. How did you react to those requests?

    I mostly tried to do what I can but I must say that I was becoming depressed already as I wasn’t feeling her support, only nagging.

    Perhaps her need to be liked by everyone is what actually motivated her to reach out to him – because she wanted him to like her?

    Perhaps she just saw a new victim to use in the nearby future. But also, she does indeed want to be liked by people and gets upset when they don’t accept and validate her. I’ve seen that a lot. She would also often get into the conflicts of others and try to “help”, then get depressed because those people refused her. When it comes to “friend”, she was constantly saying things like “I’m the person who has shown him more good will and care that anybody ever but he keeps hurting me”.
    I was her only close friend by the way.

    If someone is super uncertain of themselves, they can invent an alternate reality.

    I can also see that being the case. When all of this went down and I finally voiced that I felt a lack of support and care from her in multiple places, she retalliated with “I can’t do everything for you” and blamed it all on me. Even though she didn’t really do anything to improve my situation.

    Also, during the last interaction where she refused to give me back at least some of my things, she deflected by asking me when am I going to give her back some of her gifts.

     

     

    #386298
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    she was pretty unfair when it comes to her expectations while knowing my hardships (and not doing much if anything about those even though she could have easily) and consuming most of my free time.

    Things such as expecting me to both work on multiple things at once while giving her my full attention and most of my day as she was well aware that I was barely getting a few hours of sleep a day for months and months.

    So she was quite similar to your “friend” – monopolizing your time, demanding your constant attention and “being dissatisfied no matter how hard you tried or how much you gave”. Exactly like him. I think that’s something worth noting, because I don’t think it’s by chance that you get involved with such people.

    With neither of them you noticed you were abused: you said his behavior was “troublesome” but you yourself didn’t feel abused. With her too, in the beginning you said that she suddenly flipped from being very much in love to hating you, when in reality, the signs of trouble were noticeable already before – only you didn’t want to see them because you were “madly in love”. If you really want to heal from this experience, you’d need to look what is it in you that makes you susceptible (and loyal) to such people.

    Perhaps she just saw a new victim to use in the nearby future. But also, she does indeed want to be liked by people and gets upset when they don’t accept and validate her. I’ve seen that a lot. She would also often get into the conflicts of others and try to “help”, then get depressed because those people refused her. When it comes to “friend”, she was constantly saying things like “I’m the person who has shown him more good will and care that anybody ever but he keeps hurting me”.
    I was her only close friend by the way.

    I don’t think she is a predator who was looking for a new victim in him. Rather, she is very insecure, having very little self-love and self-esteem, and also very conflicted. You confirmed that she wants to be validated by people. She wants be seen as “the person who shows more good will and care than anybody else”. In a desperate attempt to be liked by others, she even meddles into their affairs, trying to “help”, and then gets disappointed when they don’t appreciate her meddling.

    When all of this went down and I finally voiced that I felt a lack of support and care from her in multiple places, she retalliated with “I can’t do everything for you” and blamed it all on me. Even though she didn’t really do anything to improve my situation.

    Another similar trait to your “friend” is that she lacks self-awareness and self-criticism. It’s always other people’s fault, never hers. She saw herself as your victim, as the abused one – exactly like your “friend” saw himself. In their mind, you were the boogeyman, him and her were the victims.

    She could be actually suffering from BDP because I know a person with similar traits, which I believe are BDP, although undiagnosed because she’d never agree to go to therapy. But the extremes of behavior, meddling in other people’s affairs, having a distorted sense of reality, alienating friends, always playing the victim… it’s all there. A very difficult person to live with, and she has been actually living alone for more than 30 years now.

    Anyway, if I were you, I wouldn’t hope for a reconciliation with your ex. Instead I’d work on myself to prevent to be sucked into a similar relationship in the future…

    #386299
    TeaK
    Participant

    * correction: not BDP but BPD – borderline personality disorder

    #386300
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    “you’d need to look what is it in you that makes you susceptible (and loyal) to such people.”

    I’ll need to ponder on this for sure. I do have my flaws but I don’t see how anything could possibly validate such cruel and harmful behavior towards me.
    At the very least my conscience is pretty clear, even if the heart and mind are battered.

    Thanks.

    #386303
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    I do have my flaws but I don’t see how anything could possibly validate such cruel and harmful behavior towards me.

    Her own emotional wounds led her to behave like that. Maybe it’s true for him as well. This doesn’t justify their behavior but you can see them as “troubled” and sort of forgive them, but at the same time protect yourself. Cut contact. Set boundaries. Don’t let yourself be abused. Not even for lofty things like loyalty. You don’t need to hate them, and yet, you can choose not to be in a relationship with either of them, because they don’t seem to be capable of a healthy relationship.

    I’ll need to ponder on this for sure.

    It’s most probably related to your childhood. Was there anyone in your childhood who reminds you of either of them? You don’t need to answer this, but this is where I’d be looking for answers…

     

    #386305
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    “You don’t need to hate them.”

    Hate is somehow an alien feeling to me. I don’t know how exactly it feels to hate and I don’t hold grudges. The strong negative feelings I do feel are deep disappointment and a feeling of “unfairness” (and not necessarily towards me).

    “It’s most probably related to your childhood. Was there anyone in your childhood who reminds you of either of them?”

    My childhood happened over many places and so I never really managed to make close friends as we would move somewhere else every single year or even more often. I spent most of the time by myself, usually reading, exploring or creating something.

    Things very also very hard economically (poverty, starvation, humiliation, etc) as I was raised by my mother who went through hell for it. The father cheated on her and dumped us when I was a toddler, and his side of the family plus his new woman always tried to hurt and slander us in one way or another, going as far as trying to kill my mother and me. Obviously there was never any support from them except from my grandpa who was a good person and always managed to sneak out some help for us, but he was under the boot of my cruel grandma. It actually hurts to call those people “father” or “grandma”, we’ve removed them from our lives and changed countries a very long time ago.

    After that, my teenage years weren’t much easier and we still moved often. I basically spent them growing up online, which to me was a good way to escape the pain of daily life, make actual long-term friendships and so on.

    #386307
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    thank you for sharing about your childhood. It hasn’t been easy for you, you were exposed to multiple stressors: frequent moving, poverty and starvation, your father betraying your mother and leaving when you were just a toddler, humiliation and abuse by your father’s family, including their attempt to kill you and your mother (?!) It was a very harsh childhood, and I am sorry you had to go through all that.

    I basically spent them growing up online, which to me was a good way to escape the pain of daily life, make actual long-term friendships and so on.

    Have you met your former friend also online, or you knew him in person?

    What comes to mind is that loyalty might be important to you because your father wasn’t loyal to either you or your mother, and you didn’t want to be like him. And constantly moving didn’t allow you to form deep bonds with people, so you craved for loyal, long-term friendships, for people who would be there for you through thick and thin and wouldn’t abandon you. And so you ended up with your former friend, who truly was “loyal”, but to the point of possessing you and not letting you breathe. So his loyalty was distorted – but at least he never abandoned you… and you appreciated it.

    What do you think? Would you say this is true?

     

    #386312
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    “Have you met your former friend also online, or you knew him in person?”

    It was exclusively online.

    “What do you think? Would you say this is true?”

    That’s possible, though I like said before, it’s not like everything was bad. We’ve had great times together too.
    I still remember vividly every person I was involved with somewhat deeply from those times and all of them hold a special place in my heart, even though we haven’t had any contact in well over a decade and I wouldn’t even know how to contact them anymore.

    #386325
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    It was exclusively online. … We’ve had great times together too.

    I was a little surprised to learn that your best friend is someone you only know online. But I guess it’s no surprise, considering your history of moving a lot, not being able to grow roots anywhere, and also that your real life was painful (it was a good way to escape the pain of daily life), and you probably had no close connections.

    I still remember vividly every person I was involved with somewhat deeply from those times and all of them hold a special place in my heart, even though we haven’t had any contact in well over a decade and I wouldn’t even know how to contact them anymore.

    So you stayed in touch with this particular “friend” for well over a decade, while you lost touch with your other internet friends. Am I understanding this right?

     

    #386327
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    “So you stayed in touch with this particular “friend” for well over a decade, while you lost touch with your other internet friends. Am I understanding this right?”

    He wasn’t the only one. There were two more I’ve known for a longer time and was closer to, but one died and the other ended up drifting away, marrying and going on with her life. There’s another also whom I’m pretty close to and we talk often.
    Of course there are not-so-close friends I chat to on and off.

    • This reply was modified 3 days, 6 hours ago by Tineoidea.
    #386329
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    Update: my “friend” is now slandering me to people involved in my project (which is important for my livehood) in an attempt to sabotage it by using bits of confidential information he knew, twisting it completely to frame me for horrible deeds.
    For all he complained about me not “trusting him fully”, it seems that if anything, I trusted him too much.

    #386330
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    He wasn’t the only one. There were two more I’ve known for a longer time and was closer to, but one died and the other ended up drifting away, marrying and going on with her life. There’s another also whom I’m pretty close to and we talk often.

    OK, so I guess those were the friends that your “best friend” (M) was jealous at… You now have one online friend whom you talk often, the others are gone from your life. How is it with your offline relationships, if you don’t mind sharing?

    Hate is somehow an alien feeling to me. I don’t know how exactly it feels to hate and I don’t hold grudges. The strong negative feelings I do feel are deep disappointment and a feeling of “unfairness” (and not necessarily towards me).

    Disappointment is kind of a rationalization, but behind it can be both sadness and anger. A sense of unfairness is similar –  both anger and sadness can be underneath. I told you already that you seem a bit detached from your emotions. It’s quite possible that those feelings (stemming from your childhood) would be too much to bear, and you protect yourself by suppressing them, not allowing yourself to feel them. I also believe that unless you can attend therapy, it’s better not to start digging too much into those feelings, because they might indeed overwhelm you.

    You said in your first post:

    At the start we helped each other a great deal emotionally, unraveled each other’s issues, helped each other heal and bloom, become confident and full of life.

    How much did you talk to her about your past and the trauma you’ve experienced? Do you feel confident at present in yourself and your abilities to create a better life for yourself?

    Because it seems to me you’d need to do some more healing and processing before you can get out of your present hardships and start anew, confident and full of life.

     

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