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  • #362554
    Murtaza
    Participant

    hello, how are you ?

    its been hard for me to do anything really. ive been having this feeling for about a week now and i dont know what to do. which is wanting to cry the whole day and not wanting to do anything really. its so hard to force myself to do things or to focus on something else. and i just feel so helpless. and want someone who holds me when i cry.

     

    its so hard to just waste the time when i have this and i have all day long. just for few hours its gone sometimes (during the day) for no reason. what do i do to lessen the pain? i fantasize and fantasize with no help.

    #362561
    daduwarkop
    Participant

    how to make yourself cannot cry anymore?

    #362581
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    Murtaza believes that the Problem he is facing is that the real world/ reality is a bad place. It feels bad to live in the real world, lots of suffering is the reward of living in the real world.

    Murtaza’s Solution: to not live in the real world/ in reality, to quit living in reality. Live instead in fantasy-  good feelings is the reward of living in fantasy.

    Murtaza’s implementation of the solution: he withdrew from his studies, he doesn’t look for employment, he stays at home doing nothing, or as much of nothing as is possible, not setting any goals for the future, minimizing interactions  with people, and fantasizing.

    In your own words (minimally edited grammatically, for ease of reading, and not always in order): “Life isnt worth living, it’s not worth fighting for. There is no reward at the end of the fight..I’m detached in the real world, I feel more in the fantasy than I could ever in the real world… What’s so good about reality?.. I feel good when fantasizing way more than I do in reality. Isn’t that the point?..

    “I have no job, and I was student and dropped out. I actually dropped out living as a whole. Why? Cause I simply don’t like life. I  lived it and saw nothing worth living or fighting for… The older I became, the more miserable, and life got harder.. I saw life only getting worse and worse every year.. the best thing I did was to just quit life.

    “I got my father’s retirement, so I don’t need money… I’m suffering less, this is the point, to suffer less till the end. I’m not doing anything.. anything else than this lifestyle is suffering more.. suffering is useless.. I just have to minimize it.. I just want nothing to do with this society and its people.. I don’t want no woman, no money, no accomplishments.

    “I can’t create something out of nowhere, I simply don’t have the cards. I don’t have the desire to change.. how can I create a desire to change? How can I create a desire to live? Unless I relearn life, and I can’t do that since I don’t have the desire to begin with”.

    I asked you if your living situation is suitable for you, and you answered: “It is more suitable than the other options”, and you detailed the other options: “learning life from the start with no help, forcing myself everyday to live such life, dealing with a lot of stress for no reason just hoping there is a reward, there is no guaranteed reward from all this, having no freedom because I have to work, being miserable in that work”. Regarding my suggestion that you leave Iraq for better opportunities elsewhere, you wrote:  “by the time I have enough money to leave Iraq , I would lose the desire to leave, even if I leave, there is no place to go. Going to a first world country is like being a slave, having to work to eat.

    Regarding my suggestion that you see psychotherapist, you wrote: “I would actually try.. if there were good one in Iraq.. I would fight my strong desire to give up, if there was a guarantee, not hope but a guarantee of something that’s worth all that fighting”.

    My input today: there is a term called Learned helplessness.

    https: // positivepsychology. com/ learned helplessness Seligman theory depression cure: “Learned helplessness is a phenomenon observed in both humans and other animals when they have been conditioned to expect pain, suffering, or discomfort without a way to escape it. Eventually, after enough conditioning, the animal will stop trying to avoid the pain at all- even if there is an opportunity to truly escape it.

    “When humans or other animals start to understand (or believe) that they have no control over what happens to them, they begin to think, feel, and act as if they are helpless. This phenomenon is called learned helplessness because it is not an innate trait. No one is born believing that they have no control over what happens to them and that it is fruitless even to try gaining control. It is a learned behavior, conditioned through experiences in which the subject either truly has no control over his circumstances or simply perceives that he has no control…

    “This phenomenon can also be seen in elephants. When an elephant trainer starts working with a baby elephant, he or she will use a rope to tie one of the elephant’s legs to a post. The elephant will struggle for hours, even days, trying to escape the rope, but eventually, it will quiet down and accept its range of motion. When the elephant grows up, it will be more than strong enough to break the rope, but it won’t even try- it’s been taught that any kind of struggle is useless.

    “Such extreme experiments have not been performed on humans (nor should they), the experiments that have been conducted on humans have produced similar outcomes. Although the human response to such situations may be more complex and dependent on several different factors, it still resembles the response of dogs, rats, and other animals…

    “Seligman and colleagues proposed that subjecting participants to situations in which they have no control results in three deficits: motivational, cognitive, and emotional. The cognitive deficit refers to the subject’s idea that his circumstances are uncontrollable. The motivational deficit refers to the subject’s lack of response to potential methods of escaping a negative situation. Finally, the emotional deficit refers to the depressed state arises when the subject is in a negative situation that he feels is not under his control. Based  on his research, Seligman found an important connection: the link between learned helplessness and depression”.

    What you described in your most recent post, July 23 is the depression that is associated with learned helplessness: “wanting to cry the whole day and not wanting to do anything really. It’s so hard to force myself to do things or to focus on something else, and I just feel so helpless, and want someone to hold me when I cry”.

    In the website I listed above, there are YouTube videos and suggestions.

    anita

     

    #362752
    Murtaza
    Participant

    i am aware of Learned helplessness. and i knew i have it. i dont know what to do about it. self help honestly makes me angry and never work. actually its my fault i know i dont care so why ask for advice. im sorry to waste your time and thank you

    #362758
    anita
    Participant

    You are welcome, Murtaza. I wish you well.

    anita

    #365916
    Murtaza
    Participant

    hello antina, how are you ?
    i am sorry for before because i felt like you are blaming me, i felt so angry for some reason, pherhps because people always in the past told me to do stuff that can help me and nothing did, so i always hated it, because its like (here is your solution and its your fault if you don’t follow it). i just for some reason don’t wanna do anything.
    i feel traped in this person who doesn’t care much, there is a tiny feeling in me that feels that, i don’t think this is right at all, but i feel like there is someone (the other me). i used to think and talk like i had two personality, the hurt weak one and the one that knows whats right and wanna protect the other to stay alive, when i used to do a mistake this strong side of me tells me how he is gonna take over and not make me slip again. this was before i get sckptical about everything. and after then i didn’t pay attation to these kind of things.
    i remember i used to be really critical to myself and punish it a lot, the majority of it was mentally. i used to do things that give me anxiety, because when i failed in school no one cared, so i used to carry my school bag with all the books and go walk even when i could take a car, i refused to take any money from my father, i might told you about it
    sometimes i feel like i really hate myelf, thats why i don’t care much,
    now sometimes i dislike being with myself, i feel like i cant do anything (yeah it is learned helplessness) but what do i do about it? i sometimes wish someone keeps me from myself, just take care of me instead of me, i feel like the only help i can get if they force me to do things or brainwash me. cause i won’t do anything.
    i always used to take excuses to give up and to not blame myself for it, i used to take depression or soical anxiety, ofcource people always used to blame me, its always my fault for not trying right? but i always feel strong desire to quit, ofcource i never mention any excuses anymore, i just say yeah im a loser or i like this life, they won’t understand anyway, i wish i could tell someone my life and he tell me you are doing well enough its ok, you did in some way.

    i talked to someone new, a female from another country, 23, she is sweet and we had a some kind of understanding, the only problem is yesterday she talked about her friend in real life, a 31 old guy who she knows and might like. we are just friends so she told me about him, the way she talks about him and value him, how is she exited and how she cares, made me so jealous and hurt, because she never talked to me in this way. i felt like nothing, like inadequate, like he is better (which he is i guess). i know its my fault for not trying, but i wish i was him, to have someone respects me and cares about me like that, i just say deep down, what did i do wrong to not have this? then i remember girls don’t like a guy like me, i felt like he is a man and because the way i talk and treat women they don’t like me, always act weak and so soft, its just who i am i cant change that
    this happened also to the iraqi female i talked to, (and the other few females i talked to) once she started to mentions other males and i get this deep hurt inside, like my manhood is attacked, like im losing the competition, like i am this worthless person that no female like and any man would be better then me because he can satisfy her, even if he treat her bad, i feel pain in my stomch, stress.
    its very painful because i really liked the 23 female, i knew i didn’t had a chance and i told her we are just friends, but its so painful to imagine her with someone else that she respects more and appreciate more, because he is a “Man”, i was so nice to her i even knew that if i talk about him i might have jealousy and got hurt but she wanted to talk about him she was very excited.
    i don’t think those things are true, i just can’t help but to feel this way, like when i got angery when you told me about learned helplessness, i knew you was right, i just couldn’t help it, the way i deal with these things is not to care about feelings, because they are wrong
    and i don’t see myself as a prodect to change and adjest for what “females like”, i am what i am and if they don’t like me its fine. i can’t be a different person, i tried i just don’t feel good. tell me am i wrong about this ? isn’t this the whole point of relationship? to make life easier? to be accepted ?
    i just want to cry and give up antina, even when i already gave up, its so exhausting to just live, you once told me that “if its up to me you won’t feel this way”, can you tell me what would you do? i can’t think of anything that could help me

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by Murtaza.
    #365918
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    I am glad you are back. I will read and reply to your recent post when I am back to the computer, in about 9 hours from now.

    anita

    #365944
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    “I sometimes wish someone .. just take care of me.. cause I won’t do anything”- you are waiting for someone to take care of you, and angry that no one ever did. You are thinking something like this:  It is not fair that no one ever took care of me, so I am not going to ever take care of myself because I am waiting to be taken care of!!!

    It is this anger at not having been taken care of as a boy, that keeps you stuck in your stubborn refusal to take care of yourself.

    “I wish I could tell someone my life and he tell me you are doing well enough, it’s ok”-

    – I am telling you that you are okay as far as how you look (even though I never saw you)and your intelligence, and I can tell you that it is okay with me if you never go back to school, if you never get a job, if you don’t make money and buy a home, if you never have a girlfriend,  etc.,  as long as you don’t suffer as a result of not doing these things.

    The problem for me is not that you are doing nothing in life, but that you are suffering because you are doing nothing in life. In other words, if you did nothing in life and felt okay about yourself doing nothing, then I would be okay with you doing nothing.

    You expressed lots of suffering in your thread. The title itself, “I can’t cry anymore” indicates your suffering. Let’s look at some of the suffering you shared about in your most recent post: “I feel trapped… I dislike being with myself.. I’m a loser… jealous and hurt.. inadequate.. I wish I was him, to have someone respect me and care about me.. I get this deep hurt inside.. like I am this worthless person.. I feel pain in my stomach, stress”-

    – see, how can I possibly tell you that it is okay to suffer like this???

    “I don’t see myself as a product to change and adjust for what ‘females like’, I am what I am and if they don’t like me, it’s fine”- but it is not fine with you. You do care very much about what “females like”.

    “you once told me that ‘if it’s up to me you won’t feel this way’, can you tell me what would you do? I can’t think of anything that could help me”-

    – my answer: you tried to do nothing in life and feel okay with yourself doing nothing, but you don’t feel okay. If I had the magic wand, I would make you feel okay doing nothing, but I don’t have that magic, no one has it, you don’t have it, so.. do something in your life for the purpose of no longer suffering as much as you do!

    anita

    #365957
    Murtaza
    Participant

    You expressed lots of suffering in your thread. The title itself, “I can’t cry anymore” indicates your suffering. Let’s look at some of the suffering you shared about in your most recent post: “I feel trapped… I dislike being with myself.. I’m a loser… jealous and hurt.. inadequate.. I wish I was him, to have someone respect me and care about me.. I get this deep hurt inside.. like I am this worthless person.. I feel pain in my stomach, stress”-

    – see, how can I possibly tell you that it is okay to suffer like this???

    because suffering is inevitable, no matter what i do i always suffer, i dont think this is suffering though, i just think its the price of living, a price i have to pay for living, no other choice.

     

    but it is not fine with you. You do care very much about what “females like”.

    you are right, but its not me, just my feelings, i am not my feelings, my feelings do care how they see me, and sadly its not very good point of view to have, luckly i dont care much about feelings. what i wrote was all what i feel, which didnt come from me at all, just from my past experience\childhood.

     

    “I feel trapped… I dislike being with myself.. I’m a loser… jealous and hurt.. inadequate.. I wish I was him, to have someone respect me and care about me.. I get this deep hurt inside.. like I am this worthless person.. I feel pain in my stomach, stress”

    do you think this is someone who is ready for this world? i am at least good to myself in this side, im trying to make it easier for myself, and its out there where i get hurt, i can take boredom and loneliness, its things i know how to handle, its the world\people, that hurt me, and its not a pain that i like.

     

    i should say that i just like talking to you, i might sound that im suffering alot, but im not really, i just like coming here and talking to you, i wish there was something else to talk about, but i dont have anything in mind, i told you about my teacher, how i would make excuses to talk to him, i just love kind people they make me feel warm and ok, i dont have to think much or do much just be myself, so easy and comforting

    #365958
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    “I might sound that I’m suffering a lot, but I’m not really”- you expressed that you are suffering on page 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and 7, so I believe that yes, you are suffering a lot.

    “I told you about my teacher, how I would make excuses to talk to him, I  just love kind people they make me feel warm and ok”- I remember your teacher, I remember. You compared me to that teacher- but what did I teach you, Murtaza?

    Answer: nothing. This mean.. I am not a teacher to you.

    “I just like coming here and talking to you”-

    – imagine this: a person likes to beat himself with a belt (there are people like that, you know), and he wants someone to watch him beat himself with a belt, it makes him feel warm and ok. Should I provide that service for this person… should I watch him beat himself with a belt?

    Answer: no. If I provided that service, to be an audience for a person who makes himself suffer., it would make me a bad person. I don’t want to be a bad person, Murtaza.

    anita

    #365980
    Murtaza
    Participant

     you expressed that you are suffering on page 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and 7, so I believe that yes, you are suffering a lot

    but everyone does, its just life, everyone has problems, if i do something now i know i will have more, i know i will be suffering more if i live life, if i had a son and he had the same problem i would just let him be, life is already hard and ugly, why make it twice as hard ?

     

    I remember your teacher, I remember. You compared me to that teacher- but what did I teach you, Murtaza?

    Answer: nothing. This mean.. I am not a teacher to you

    its not just my teacher, a few people that i used to talk to and like them because they are kind, and you did teach me some stuff, when you told me about my relationship with my mother, how i wanted to protect her but couldn’t and because of that i have low self esteem and other problems, i could name a few more if you want.

     

    imagine this: a person likes to beat himself with a belt (there are people like that, you know), and he wants someone to watch him beat himself with a belt, it makes him feel warm and ok. Should I provide that service for this person… should I watch him beat himself with a belt?

    would you rather him living with anxiety, stress, suicidal thoughts making him over the edge, miserable ? this is what the other option is, and i dont know how to deal with it, with the constant stress and anxiety and wanting to give up, i might do something worst then beating myself with a belt.

     

    Answer: no. If I provided that service, to be an audience for a person who makes himself suffer., it would make me a bad person. I don’t want to be a bad person, Murtaza.

    i understand, it makes me sad, its ok though, i like that you exist and you are a real person, at least after a long day of “belt beating” i could imagine someone kind to me.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by Murtaza.
    #366005
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    June 17 this year, you started your thread titled “I can’t cry anymore”, with: “Lately I haven’t been able to cry or express sadness… I always liked to cry and wanted to, cause it makes me feel warm”-

    From the very beginning of your thread, you clearly asked for help to achieve this one goal and only this one goal: to cry again and feel warm inside.

    You didn’t ask for help in trying to understand your emotions and motivations; in trying to understand how you came to believe what you believe about life, about yourself and other people; you didn’t ask for help to learn anything new from me, and you didn’t ask for help in changing anything at all about your attitude and way of life.

    I didn’t understand that, and offered you the help that you didn’t ask for, seven pages of it, post after post, page after page of   unasked for and rejected help.  I chased you to  help you, I almost begged you to take my offered help.

    But all along, the only help you asked for was for someone to read your words and kindly reply with: I read you, Murtaza, I see how sad you are, I understand. You don’t have to do anything different from what you are doing. You don’t have to do anything at all. I expect nothing from you, nothing more or different than who you are now. I am here for you, cry as much as you need to cry and I will figuratively wipe your tears with my heart.

    In your recent post you wrote about suffering: “everyone (suffers), it’s just life, everyone has problems, if I do something now, I  know I will have more, I know I will be suffering more if I live life”-

    – You don’t want to live any differently than you are living now, which you suggest is not really living life (“I will be suffering more if I live life”). You want to continue to .. not live life, and you want to have a person at the end of the day be kind to you: “I like that you exist and you are a real person, at least after a long day of ‘belt beating’ I could imagine someone kind to me”-

    I finally understand what it is that you wanted all along (and all that you did not want from me). And I have just given you that which you wanted all along. You are welcome to re-read this post anytime, day or night, you are welcome to print it and hang it in your room, so it’s always there for you.

    The reason that this post is my last post to you is that I can be kind to you in the way you requested only one time, and this is this one time. If I understood you correctly on June 17, my first reply to you would have been also the last. I can’t provide you with the service you want me to provide to you because providing it will be unkind to me  because it will require that I abandon my basic beliefs about what life is about.

    Goodbye Murtaza.

    anita

    #366058
    Murtaza
    Participant

    I am so sorry anita, this wasn’t my Intentions at all, please if you give me another chance just to explain myself, please antina, i really do need your help, and i do want to apply it in the real world.

     

    You don’t want to live any differently than you are living now, which you suggest is not really living life (“I will be suffering more if I live life”). You want to continue to .. not live life,

    Yes you are correct, i stated this many times, so you understand who i am and what i want,

     

    and you want to have a person at the end of the day be kind to you

    No antina, i value your time, and i also don’t count on people, i will never use you like this.

     

    “I like that you exist and you are a real person, at least after a long day of ‘belt beating’ I could imagine someone kind to me”-

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Yes, imagine anita, i would never waste your time and energy just for you to be kind to me, i understand that you like helping people and i am here for that, and im sorry if i did waste your time and energy, this won’t happen again, if you don’t wanna replay to me i understand, i always felt that i sound hateful when i talk to poeple.</p>
     

    You didn’t ask for help in trying to understand your emotions and motivations; in trying to understand how you came to believe what you believe about life, about yourself and other people; you didn’t ask for help to learn anything new from me, and you didn’t ask for help in changing anything at all about your attitude and way of life.

    This is what i really came here for, even though i didn’t sound like it, i do want to understand myself, my emotions and motivation, i don’t even know what to ask, or how to ask it, i did learn some stuff from you anita, and i want to learn more, i will ask the right questions this time anita starting from now.

     

    you clearly asked for help to achieve this one goal and only this one goal: to cry again and feel warm inside.

    I still want to achieve it anita, you never said anything about it, i thought when you started to ask about life that i need to change myself in order to do that, to change my whole life, to travel and get therapy in order to do that. I would gladly follow any advice you give me, i respect your opinion.

     

    you are welcome to print it and hang it in your room, so it’s always there for you.

    No need anita, i will always remember you, even if you didn’t want to talk to me anymore. Im just thankful that i know you and talked to you once, i really wish that it continue.

     

    I am here for you, cry as much as you need to cry and I will figuratively wipe your tears with my heart.

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Thats so beautiful anita, thank you so much, i will never forget these words.</p>
     

     

    I promise if you decide to replay to me there would be no more me asking you to be kind or anything, just advices just your help, which it seems i don’t deserve, i don’t know how to ask for advices, or help, i never did before, i will try anita, please forgive me,

     

    I will start with this, how do i cry again? I just can’t be vulnerable with myself, its really hard, i think i can cry, but i hold it, because it feels bad to cry, i remember i used to think its weak, so i used to hold it, its just so painful when i cry, it hurts, i like to be sad and i wish i continue to be sad for a while when i get the feeling, but it goes fast, could you ask me about this? Things i missed, Or didn’t mentioned, Im sorry if im asking too much.

     

    i think if you don’t replay it would be better for you, cause im nothing but a waste of your time, i really mean this anita, im not just saying it for sympathy, i know this, i don’t have nothing to offer and im not very nice either or my personality, this is why i don’t talk to people,

     

    thank you anita

    #366066
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    As you  know, this is a public forum. You are a member and I am a member: I don’t have any more power here than you do. I am not a psychotherapist, not here and not in real-life. We are equal, two individuals who have connected and communicated, beginning in June this year and ending in September, three months later.

    You wrote in your most recent post: “I really need your help… I do want to understand myself, my emotions and  motivations. I don’t even know what to ask”- you don’t need to ask me for my understanding of you because I already shared with you all of my understanding of you and your situation, at length and repeatedly. All you have to do is re-read our communication (pages 1-7), take notes, and you will have in front of you all that I understand about you and your situation.

    Here is another suggestion: start a new thread and communicate there with other members. There are other members who want to connect,  help and be helped by others.

    Murtaza, you were not a waste of my time (!), but there is nothing more that I can offer you, all that I have to offer you- I already did. Therefore, this is my last post to you (If you address me again, I will not reply further). I do hope other members will reply to you on your new thread.

    My best wishes to you!

    anita

     

    #367800
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Hello anita, i wanted to this post long time but i always got lazy, i hope its no bother, i understand you said that you won’t respond anymore, i just wanted to say stuff.

     

    I wish i could cry about this, not because you are not gonna talk to me, but because i was a bit of trouble to you (you expressed that in your last 3 posts). It hurts, my whole point of being alone is not to hurt anybody or trouble anyone.

     

    I guess because i need understanding and acceptance i fool myself that i don’t, when i start talking to you it was really not about me wanting to cry (it was more of a side mission). You are right the main goal was those.

     

    i remember when i saw your first comment the first thing that came to my mind is that, she sounds really kind and understanding, i wish i could talk to her for a while. Maybe she could help me. And im really attracted to kindness and understanding. Especially if its a female, i guess its because i have (childhood emotional neglect). Sometimes i just can’t control it.

     

    I tried to talk to many females just to get that feeling, that i lost from my childhood. Its like being thirsty without any water, all the time, and i try to hard to just get a glimpse of that taste of it even if its online. Even if its imagination,

     

    I live in a desert. And the only water i could get is from my mind. Im trying to love myself more, to not be so thirsty, maybe its me i don’t love myself enough that i need love from others, i ask myself how would you treat someone you love ? And i treat myself as such, with kindness and understanding.

     

    But the thirst will always be here, its a normal state for me, i actually like that thirst, because when i don’t feel thirsty i feel so empty, i just feel sad i don’t satisfy it, i feel even more sad about the state of the world, how things run and how things are, how cruel it is, and how fragile i am.

     

    I don’t know if thank you or sorry means anything, but i wish i could do something to you, you give a lot, without anything in return. And i was greedy. I hope you doing alright.

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