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  • #378701
    Ik09
    Participant

    Haha, you made a little joke there. I like it. I will prepare myself better. I need time to cope up though. I will be busy tomorrow on, again. I will come back in a week again. take care, I will as well.

    #378705
    anita
    Participant

    Dear IkO9:

    I am glad you enjoyed my joke, although I didn’t think of it as a joke when I posted: I was serious about keeping yourself socially distant at such meeting, given the state of the pandemic. Glad to read that you will take care of yourself and thank you for wishing that I do as well. I will be looking forward to you posting again in about a week.

    anita

    #378745
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear lk09,

    I am glad that your friend’s father is recovering and has been released from hospital. Thank God!

    I know the very idea of an arranged marriage is repelling to you, and it would me for me too. Luckily I haven’t grown up in a country where this is expected from girls, and where one of the key role of parents is to marry off their daughters. And where girls are expected to follow that tradition and respect and obey, and compromise, even sacrifice their happiness, for the sake of the tradition and parental and societal expectations. Frankly, it’s sad and disturbing to me, but it’s easy for me to say, not having been brought up in that system.

    There is no standing up for yourself in such cases, either you make the people who took care of you all your life sad and disappointed or you make them happy. Either way I won’t be happy.

    Well, these people gave you away just because you weren’t a boy, and your mother had to sneak out to visit you on your birthdays. This is how much they loved you. And then, they never protected you from your sister’s bullying, moreover they told you to accept and tolerate her bullying because “it’s just her character, she cannot be helped.” What your parents did was put a roof over your head since you were 5 years old, and provide for your material and educational needs. But they haven’t provided for much more, based on what you’ve shared here.

    You don’t owe them anything since you didn’t choose to be born. It was their decision, and they had a responsibility to take care of you. But they didn’t even do that – they rejected you because their own parents and the society told them they should reject you. And then, when your aunt changed her mind about adopting you, your grandfather finally allowed that you be brought home.

    I am not writing this to cause more trauma to you, but to express how appalled I am by such treatment of women and girls in India. It’s just so unfair and cruel, and then you’re expected to accept it and live by it, because you’d cause your parents pain and disappointment. But what about pain and disappointment that they have caused to you, and that millions of parents have caused to their daughters??

    I wish you, together with other brave, intelligent young women, would stand up against such treatment and such tradition. Are there such civil organizations in India, which promote equal treatment for girls and breaking free from harmful traditions? You’re intelligent, you have a job and now even your own apartment – why would you need to settle for less, for a potential life of misery with someone you don’t love?

    You should have the right to choose your own life partner, and also, to make mistakes before finding a suitable guy. In the least, you have the right to have the same treatment as your sister, so they should give you 5 more years.

    What’s clear to me is that succumbing to their pressure and outdated traditions is not something that a person with your intelligence, insight and sensibility, should put up with.

    #379569
    Ik09
    Participant

    Hi, It’s been few days and in these few days, I tried hard to keep myself concentrated on myself and my work. But it isn’t working anymore. I did things I like, I am getting ideas, I feel otherwise light and happy within but there still remains a void. It shouldn’t be but every few hours it hits me.

    I haven’t been sleeping well. It has been more than a week now. I sleep by 4-5 am when I have to work in the morning. It makes me feel bad about things. But today was extreme because I took half a day off to rest a little. Just after a weekend. I feel mentally drained and tired.

    It sometimes feels like it has been years since we broke up when it has only been a month. I feel drained energetically to that point.

    My interaction with my family is at minimum, I work but I know I can work harder, and yet…

    I don’t understand my own thoughts and what exactly am I doing

    Some days I feel I will like someone healthy to be a part of my life but then I question if I am healthy? (mentally)

     

    Should I be even affected by all this the way I am?

     

    I tried hard to not come back here and deal with everything on my own but I feel it isn’t working anymore…

    #379573
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear lk09,

    good to hear from you again. I am sorry you’re struggling again….

    Have your parents pressured you into meeting marriage candidates since? You haven’t commented on my post about arranged marriages – do you think you’ll still have to succumb to your parents’ pressure if you don’t find anyone on your own?

    I haven’t been sleeping well… I feel mentally drained and tired.

    It sometimes feels like it has been years since we broke up when it has only been a month. I feel drained energetically to that point.

    Some days I feel I will like someone healthy to be a part of my life but then I question if I am healthy? (mentally)

    Should I be even affected by all this the way I am?

    It appears your thoughts are torturing you, one of them being whether you’re mentally healthy to find a good guy to marry. It sounds like the same thought of “not being good enough”, or “there’s something wrong with me”. The child reacts like that when they are rejected and treated badly – they always blame themselves, not the parents. This thought might have formed first as a result of being given to your granny (i.e. rejected by your parents), and then later, when being treated as the second-best, always less important than your sister. The child starts thinking “there must be something wrong with me”, “I am not good enough”.

    I believe these thoughts are coming up now again, in relation to you being “rejected” by your boyfriend. The cure is in loving that little girl inside of you and telling her how much you love her and appreciate her, and how special she is to you… There’s nothing wrong with her, she’s a precious, adorable little baby, and she’s completely lovable. If you can imagine holding that baby in your arms, smiling at her, playing peek-a-boo with her… I am almost sure it would help…

     

    #379574
    Ik09
    Participant

    Dear TeaK,

    Even reading what you said made me tear up. I will try doing that, I don’t think it actively but it kind of tortures me inside. I realized this when you pointed it out, my thoughts are a bit foggy these days. I could not figure out why I felt sad, I think I have a little idea now. I was belittling myself again, unknowingly.

     

    Regarding the arranged marriage scenario, due to the postponement of my sister’s marriage- their focus thankfully remains there. And yes, it is something which is an unsaid rule in our family. If you want to marry by your own choice, have a stable relationship when you are asked about marriage by your parents. If you are single, then you are not given time to go and explore on your own. You marry their suggestion, Yes you can choose amongst those but the set of prospects will be their choice, and the final one can be yours. But only till you don’t cross a certain age. Like 32 was the maximum for my parents, after which my sister was forced by all relatives and my parents to marry the guy they chose.

    #379578
    anita
    Participant

    Dear IkO9:

    May 10, 2021: “It sometimes feels like it has been years since we broke up when it has only been a month”. I think that it feels like years because of your very strong fear of being alone. Fear makes time feel like forever: “I have a very strong fear of being left alone in life.. loneliness haunts me on weekends especially”, April 10, 2021.

    May 10: “I haven’t been sleeping well. It has been more than a week now. I sleep by 4-5 am when I have to work in the morning.. I feel mentally drained and tired”.

    I think that your sleep has been disturbed because (1) you can still hear, or you remember the loud arguments that often happen at home: “I  can’t stand loud arguments and physical fights which often happen at home”, April 10, and (2) some of the arguments/ fights happened at night, disturbing your sleep then and now: “my sister shared a room and she often lashed out especially at nights when I was asleep.. I left the room at 3 am and slept in the hall” (April 10).

    anita

    #379579
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear lk09,

    I could not figure out why I felt sad, I think I have a little idea now. I was belittling myself again, unknowingly.

    I am glad you recognized the negative thoughts that might be fueling your feeling of sadness.

    I feel otherwise light and happy within but there still remains a void

    Pay attention if that void shrinks when you tend to the toddler within you, and tell her how lovable and precious she is. If you have an old photo of yours from that early period, perhaps you can put it somewhere where you can see it, and send positive thoughts and feelings to that little girl.

    I am glad your parents let you off the hook for now. You’re 5 years younger, so if I were you, I’d insist on getting more time to find the man you love. You can tell them that your sister was given till the age of 32, so you too should be given at least a few more years. Be adamant about it. Till now your sister has always had better treatment and was tolerated much more than you were tolerated. It’s time this changed – demand equal treatment because it’s an issue of great importance to you.

    And try to relax, dear lk09, you still have plenty of time in front of you, and you’ve made great progress in understanding yourself and taking care of yourself. You’re doing great. And it’s not your fault that your boyfriend left you. There’s nothing wrong with you. You’re perfectly capable of being a great companion. And you deserve someone who can fully appreciate you. That someone will show up, perhaps when you least expect it, but they will show up, for sure. In the meanwhile, it’s important that you think positive thoughts about yourself, that you love yourself, value yourself, and all the rest will follow, just give it time….

     

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by TeaK.
    #379746
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Ik09:

    You posted in your various threads in May 2018, December 2018, April 2019, April 2020, April 2021 and a bit this month, May 2021: a total of 5+ months in three years (May  2018-May 2021).

    This is what you shared about being alone and loneliness: “I always have had the fear of being left alone all my life… It originated long back due to some family members.. leaving me behind” (May 2018), “I have a very strong fear of being left alone in life… Ever since I was a kid.. I always felt lonely… I wanted one particular person just for me… I was very young.. I would sit and look at the sky.. missing my person… I feel lonelier when I see others happy and laughing together.. I crave for my own person… I had a weird habit as a kid, I used to pinch the tummy of the person who put me to sleep” (April 2021)-

    – I think that you pinched the tummy of the person who put you to sleep so to make sure that you were not alone, that there was a person there: when you pinched the person’s tummy, the person made a sound, an ouch perhaps, and hearing that sound, you knew you were not alone.

    “I spent most of my childhood alone, crying to my mother who then used to give me puzzles.. I used to be an outcast even in school” (April 2021).

    As lonely as you felt, and as strongly as you needed and craved love with your “own person”, you were also afraid of getting emotionally and physically close to anyone. In a letter to your boyfriend at the time, you wrote: “I was full of fear.. I developed fear, that wanted to suppress my love for you” (April 2020). Later, you wrote: “I am still feeling fear in terms of letting people too close” (April 2021).

    In a matter of five years or so, within 2 long-term relationships, you met one man only 6 times: “once a year or twice year.. 6 times in 3 years”, and you met the other only 3 times: “in Oct 2018, then Sept 2019, next time in February 2021”.  All together, you met your two long-term boyfriends only 9 times.

    You are afraid to be with people in a group setting as well: “I have difficulty even enjoying myself in a group. I become awkward.. too serious” (April 2021).

    As intensely as you craved your “own person”, when one of the two long-distance boyfriends told you that he wanted to marry you, you were not interested: “The guy I am dating.. wants to get married to me.. I, however, don’t want to rush things with him. I want both of us to know each other better and then think of anything further than dating” (April 2019).

    You shared that your father didn’t want you when you were born, and your mother gave you away to her mother. At about 6 years old, you were returned to your parents’ home where they lived with your older sister: “my sister had got used to being the centre of attraction and she did not take me coming back well.. I was never welcome by her in the family. I used to copy her and so we often fought… She wanted people to revolve around her and talk to her and, about her” (April 2021)-

    – you wrote above, “I used to copy her”: you copied your sister’s behavior: she tried to be the center of attraction and attention, and did you, not in exactly her way, nut in your own way, example: “I screamed and screamed. As if I was being killed. Kept hitting my head with my hands.. till my mum came and held both my hands. I pushed her away.. then my sister came and held my hands..”, and another time: “I was crying and on the floor.. I ran towards the terrace.. I started hitting the back of my head on the wooden swing.. Papa generally stays away but he got angry and hit me few times.. My brother kept sitting there.. he was afraid that I might try dying if he left. I kept crying till I stopped being able to breathe and heavy breathing started, they got scared and brought me water, and forced fed me water and then took me to bed and asked me to sleep”, etc. (April 2020)-

    – your way was the histrionic way. A histrionic person has an overwhelming desire to be noticed, and often behave dramatically and theatrically so to get attention. Behaving histrionically, you got the attraction and attention of everyone in the household, they all attended to you: your father, your mother, your older sister and your younger brother, eight years younger.

    You wrote to your  boyfriend at the time: “I know you want silence and peace”- not drama and theatrics. About your sister: “my sister.. says I am the one who seeks attention all the time”- you have sought attention histrionically (as well as by excelling academically), and your sister sought attention in her ways.

    My final thoughts for this post: it is important that you no longer seek attention histrionically with anyone, and that in current and future friendships and relationships,  you seek attention in appropriate ways that will make healthy friendships and relationships possible. You will need to address, manage and heal from your (understandable) fear of getting close to people  emotionally and physically (being in their physical proximity). Best would be for you to attend counseling on the matter.

    anita

     

    #379778
    Ik09
    Participant

    When I said I used to copy her, I meant the way she talked, the way she dressed…. My maternal grandmother and grandfather lived in an even smaller town as compared to my parents (my hometown is a small town as well).

    And although all my materialistic needs were fulfilled at my maternal grandmother’s home, I still spoke like a child from a small town(almost a village) and I don’t mean English, it was a far fetched dream to me then (even that I learned copying my sister), I mean my own language, my mother tongue as well. My mum used to be embarrassed by the way I spoke so I copied the more refined dialect of my sister.

    As for the histrionics, I have always hated the way my sister behaved with my parents as she grew up and because of that, I never copied her whenever she was angry.

     

    These outbursts that I mentioned and you highlighted, are the ones in the last year. And it might seem like I was trying to seek attention, but I just wanted to be left in peace. I am not an extrovert and unnecessary talking drains me. More so, if it is an argument. But when I am angry, which I rarely am, it is difficult to control my anger. And to be honest, at that moment I wanted to die. When you don’t have mental peace within your family, where else can one expect it? And they knew I was going through a tough time and yet…

    Let me give you an example- If you have really bad cramps, and you yelp out in pain because it caught you off guard, will your parents tell you that you are acting and have no capacity to endure pain? Or if you try getting them gifts with your first salary, would they get upset and ask you to use it yourself just because you spent that money? I have tried to be sane in a place where there is minimum love and respect but yes my expectations killed me everywhere, within family, within friends and in relationships.

    Yes, I could not meet the people I dated often but it was not a conscious choice. I saved money to travel to them as much as possible but the college I was at, needed an application from my parents to grant leave. What would I explain to them? I was going to meet my boyfriend? And it was the same for both the guys.

    I have never tried any unnecessary antics with the guys I dated, if anything, tried solving issues as I hate when problems lie on my head.

     

    Anyways, I will try seeking counseling whenever things are better in my country. Thanks for being patient until now and keeping track of whatever I wrote to you. Have a great weekend both of you.

    #379781
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Ik09:

    When I posted to you yesterday, I knew that when you said that you used to copy your sister, you didn’t mean that you were trying to copy her efforts to be the center of attention. What I realized yesterday was that you tried to copy her efforts to be the center of attention, aware of it or not. It is not abnormal that you wanted to be the center of attention, it is understandable.

    It is interesting that your sister, although unlike you, she was not given away-  she too felt alone and suffered from lack of attention (this is why she tried to be the center of attention). I suppose it makes sense that a father who was okay with giving away his second daughter, would not be a good father to the first. It also makes sense that a mother who was embarrassed by the dialect of her second daughter’s speech (a dialect acquired because she gave her baby away to live in an almost-village where a certain dialect was spoken), was not a mother empathetic enough, or sensitive enough to her returning six-year-old daughter’s struggles..

    You wrote: “when I am angry, which I rarely am, it is difficult to control my anger”- this means that you are often angry, only you are not aware of your anger. Rarely, when your anger exceeds a certain level, when it becomes too much- then you then become aware of it and it catches you off guard, overwhelming you.

    Comparing histrionic behavior to muscle cramps, you wrote: “If you have really bad cramps, and you yelp  out in pain because it caught you off guard, will your parents tell you that you are acting and have no capacity to endure pain?” – a cramp is a sudden, involuntary contraction of a muscle. Histrionic behavior, although impulsive and fueled by emotional pain, is not sudden and involuntary like a muscle cramp. It takes some time and planning. For example, during one of the two histrionic episodes that you described more than a year ago you “ran towards the terrace” while your parents, sister and younger brother (your audience) was watching- the plan was to scare your audience into thinking that you were about to jump of the terrace and kill yourself.

    Still regarding histrionics, you wrote: “I have never tried any unnecessary antics with the guys I dated”- I wonder if you tried antics that you felt were necessary.

    “Anyways, I will try seeking counseling whenever things are better in my country”- I hope things will get better in your country and everywhere in the world, sooner than later, and that you find quality counseling. I would very much like it if you no longer feel alone and lonely, and instead, enjoy a healthy, loving relationship with a man who you can see and interact with in-person, every day.

    anita

    #379782
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I am not sure lk09 engages in histrionic behavior, only because she had a couple of episodes where she felt so harassed and bullied by her sister and parents, that she reacted in desperation and made those self-harming gestures. She described those two incidents in her letter to her boyfriend, and the way I see it, it was an act of desperation, when she felt bullied and not understood, like an animal pushed into a corner.

    This is what preceded those episodes:

    No matter what I do is never good enough and then listening complaints and how bad I am and how i shall never have anyone in my life and how I shall always be alone in my life, How acc. to my own blood, I am planning day and night another dramatic stint to disturb other people’s lives and how I enjoy the mental trauma others go through by fighting.

    A few days back, I was constantly being shouted on, non stop complaints- about how I am perfectly useless and how I cannot do anything. It caught on to me and that is the last I remember. I remember the actions of my body but I don’t remember what was going in my mind and what I was thinking regarding the action.

    Then one day again same thing happened. Sister started it, then mum took over…this time I was crying and on the floor begging them to shut up, I remember hearing maa say “You don’t even die, just bring disgrace to us” she said it in anger to make me stop but I ran towards the terrace, Aum caught me in the way and pushed me so that i stop. I sat there and cried and asked them all to go and leave me alone. But nobody left, they kept saying things, I started hitting the back of my head on the wooden swing in my drawing room.

    She was shouted on, told that she was useless, that she was a disgrace, and that she’ll always stay alone. And that she’s “planning day and night another dramatic stint to disturb other people’s lives and how I enjoy the mental trauma others go through by fighting.” This is what her narcissistic sister accused her of, and narcissistic people are masters in accusing people and pretending they’re the victims while they are in fact the abusers.

    You say:

    It is interesting that your sister, although unlike you, she was not given away- she too felt alone and suffered from lack of attention (this is why she tried to be the center of attention).

    Her sister was/is narcissistic and didn’t tolerate anyone else to be the center of attention. She needed to be the center of attention at all times. She was bullying and demanding, but her parents allowed it, because she had protection of the grandfather, who was Alpha and Omega in the family. So I don’t think her sister felt alone and suffered from lack of attention – rather, she was spoiled and as soon as the attention was not on her, she would act up.

    I believe that in those two incidents, lk09 reacted in desperation, and that she didn’t seek attention by creating drama – it was what her sister unjustly accused her of.

     

    #379784
    anita
    Participant

    * Dear TeaK:

    When I reply to an original poster (OP) I may mention another member who replied to the same OP, but only in positive terms, saying that I agree with that member, or that the other member’s reply is insightful, but I never mention another member who replied to the OP  in negative terms, saying that I disagree with that member, or that the member’s reply was wrong, etc. My reasons, based on my years long experience in the forums are that when you disagree with me (or with another member who replies to the OP), it is not necessary that you mention my name in context of the disagreement. You can express your disagreement/ your position without mentioning my name, without mentioning my reply or quoting my words, and without even using the verb “disagree”.

    For  example, in this case, you can post to the Ik09 something like this: ”I do not believe that you engage in histrionic behavior’, and expand on that as much as you’d like. When you point to another member who replies as being wrong, it creates a negative feeling in the other member, and it may put the OP in the position of siding with one member against another. Overall, it promotes a negative/ unsafe atmosphere in the forums. We are here to learn and hopefully to help just a little, we are not here to disagree or argue.

    Also, it is my personal practice to address only the OP in his/ her thread, and not members who reply. If you want to have a conversation with me, you are welcome to start your own thread, where you will be the OP, and I will be glad to address you there. In my very next post I will address the OP with something that occurred to me as a result of  reading your most recent post.

    anita

    #379786
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I reacted to you repeatedly suggesting that lk09 engages in histrionic behavior. lk09 replied to your first post, she explained that she doesn’t feel like she’s creating drama to seek attention. However, you continued to postulate that indeed, she is seeking attention. I felt the need to react to that assumption of yours, because I believe it is not helpful to suggest that a member is engaging in a behavior they’re most probably not engaging in.

    I don’t have anything against you, I think you’re doing an excellent job on this forum, so my reaction isn’t personal against you, but rather, to give another perspective to lk09 who might feel accused of something she isn’t doing.

    When you point to another member who replies as being wrong, it creates a negative feeling in the other member, and it may put the OP in the position of siding with one member against another. Overall, it promotes a negative/ unsafe atmosphere in the forums. We are here to learn and hopefully to help just a little, we are not here to disagree or argue.

    It appears you feel personally accused of being wrong and it created a negative feeling in you, and also you have a feeling that lk09 might “side with me” because of that. This is your projection, I must say. As I said, I reacted because I felt your perspective in this particular issue might not be helpful to lk09.

    Indeed, I agree we should try to help each other, and I felt that insisting on the notion that lk09 seeks attention through drama isn’t helpful.

    If you want to have a conversation with me, you are welcome to start your own thread, where you will be the OP, and I will be glad to address you there.

    I don’t have the need to address you in a separate thread. I only had the need to react in this particular issue, for the reasons I’ve just explained.

    In my very next post I will address the OP with something that occurred to me as a result of reading your most recent post.

    Alright, I am looking forward to reading your post.

     

    #379787
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Ik09:

    I am not a mental health professional, and even if I was, these public, online forums are not appropriate for making mental health diagnoses. Therefore, I can not diagnose you with Histrionic Personality Disorder. In regard to the two episodes you described, I believe that you behaved histrionically  during those episodes. Histrionic according to Merriam Webster. com means: “overly dramatic or emotional.. theatrical”.

    It was suggested that your sister is narcissistic, if what was meant by it, is that your sister suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), then again, only a professional, in a private, professional setting- in a doctor’s office following a few face to face meetings- can responsibly make this diagnosis. You can not diagnose her, neither can any member reading your third- person account of your sister’s words and behaviors.

    anita

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