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very confused-new girlfriend, ex-girlfrend. Help me please

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This topic contains 299 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  anita 2 days, 10 hours ago.

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  • #216459

    Brandy
    Participant

    The things you do to keep certain people in your life seem to actually drive them away, and you’re totally aware of it all. What’s the cure for rejection anxiety? Anyone know?

    And I’m having a sickly case of deja vu reading this last post of yours. Didn’t you start this thread 12 pages ago after she texted you a “thank you” for sending her a personal item? Banging my head against the wall now.

    #216627

    anita
    Participant

    * Dear Brandy:

    “What’s the cure for rejection anxiety? Anyone know?”- I will take the challenge, referring to the content of this thread: rejection is scary, naturally. So are heights, therefore most people will not engage in rock climbing by choice, or jump out of an airplane with a parachute. But some people do these things, stimulated by the fear of climbing a steep rock, stimulated by the fear of falling to their death if they make the wrong move. It excites them.

    Some people are excited by rejection, it stimulates them, it excites them in much the same way others are excited by rock climbing. And just like a person excited by climbing steep rocks is not interested in no longer climbing, so is a person excited by rejection, not interested in … no longer being rejected.

    When John waited for his mother to pick him up, 4th grade, Christmas time, that was the most exciting time of his life. It was going to be the best Christmas ever, followed by a happily-ever-life in Oregon with his mother who finally, he was told, was okay and capable to be the mother he needed for so long.

    It didn’t happen that way. There was no happily-ever-after. She didn’t attend to him, didn’t come to see him at school sporting events, late to pick him up, had a series of boyfriends, one who was abusive to John for years. The close, loving relationship he longed for with his mother did not happen.

    And so, it was that waiting at Christmas time for his mother to pick him up, that was the highlight of his childhood, the exciting time. It is this excitement that he is trying to recreate and relive now. He is not trying to re-experience a loving, close relationship: he doesn’t have that experience and he gave up on having it long ago.

    He is trying to re-experience that which he did experience before, and that is the excitement of waiting.

    anita

    #218033

    Brandy
    Participant

    Hi anita! Sorry for my late reply. I’ve been busy and will continue to be until around the 29th of this month, but I did read your post and it’s an interesting take on what’s happening here, one I never would have thought of myself.  The thing that’s confusing to me about it is that those people I know who are excited by the thrill of rock climbing or parachuting speak of these activities as being exhilarating, which in turn make their lives better, fuller, and more fun, whereas John seems to view rejection as being incapacitating, creating in him less motivation, more depression, making his life worse. I know he mentioned something about subconsciously desiring women who don’t fully commit to him, but it seems that once they completely exit his life, he has trouble with basic functioning. I don’t know.

    John, where did you go? What are your thoughts? And I wasn’t really banging my head again the wall. I was trying to be funny. 🙂

    #218045

    Brian
    Participant

    i just came out of a year and a half relationship with my ex girlfriend, we had been on and off most of the time,but this time i decided not to go back and ive met someone new and she is great the total opposite of my ex sweet, thoughtful, kind, loving, selfless, loyal, a hard worker, not alot of which i can say for my ex, but for some reason i fell so deeply in love with my ex like i never have any woman before eventhough she cheated on me several times lied to me was verbally and physically abusive sometimes, she has major depression and boderline personality disorder and heavily medicated most of the time. When we had first met and been dating for about a month, she scared me she got upset with me for not liking too many guys calling her phone while we were out on dates,and tried to jump out of my car while i was driving i pulled her back in and immediately took her home, as soon as we pulled in she jumped out of my car and took off running leaving her phone behind, no idea where she went, so i took her phone and placed it on her backdoor step and told myself im not doing this and i left but i was concerned about her and wanted to make sure she was ok, so i contacted her the next day and we began talking and going out again. As we began to know each other a little more i learned that shes been that way all her life struggling with depression loneliness and had attempted suicide several times in the past way before i came along, and i asked myself are you really wanting to go through this in a relationship? i didnt want to but i wanted help her and before i knew it i had fallen in love with her, id never dated anyone like her before with so many issues and someone being in trouble so much she had arrested a few times for shoplifting she had been in fights with people from roadrage incidents and it was scary being with her because of her violent temper, i tried to keep her from doing those things and keep her out of trouble, i went to court with her alot when she was facing charges and i supported her thankfully she only got probation. when i met her i had no clue but her life was a wreck, she was having seizures from stress and anxiety in which i tried to help with and i figured out that some medication she was taking was actually causing her to have more seizures on top of her stress, so i called her doctor and asked him if he could take her off of it and he did she had been suicidal while on this medication as well so he did not prescribe her anymore and i was very thankful because after that she stopped having seizures at all and not suicidal like before. i like to think that hopefully i made some difference in her life. I helped her take care of her three children as well, living with her and them and being responsible for many things. Everything is going well with my new girlfriend right now but i still feel this emptiness missing my ex, eventhough it was a wild and volatile relationship and i know wasnt good for me because i couldnt trust her we had undying chemistry and connection something very special that i never had before and some things about her were great like she was very nurturing and kind to me when i would be feeling down or crying. We laughed together some too and just got used to each other and the sex was amazing like the best ive had, i believe mainly because i was so in love with her. Shes attractive and is my type, she was the woman i had dreamed of the day we met everything down to her beauty her eyes the way she talked and her personality she was my dream woman for sure, but it was so hard being in a relationship with her dealing with all her anger being violent and verbally abusive to me, i kept telling myself i love her and thats just the way she is, but it hurt me inside alot to hear and see those things from her on top of the cheating, no transparency from her and sometimes felt like she was using me. i walked many times but i always went back until now, i couldnt resist her she was so special to me and i committed myself to her and took alot of things from her like i never did from any other woman. i knew she had alot of problems and i wanted to solve them all and help her to be happy but i figured out eventually that i cant fix that for her it has to be her that wants to fix it.

    #218055

    anita
    Participant

    * Dear Busy Brandy (I like the alliteration):

    If you know a rock climber in person and his (or her) life was made “fuller, and more fun” because of his rock climbing, that is because his life was already full and fun (and therefore made fuller and more fun). Following their thrill, they return to the life they had, energized. On the other hand, John’s life was not full or fun, but lacking motivation and depressing,  and so, following his thrill he returns to his life, more unmotivated and depressed.

    John’s thrill regarding the ex girlfriend has nothing to do with her, that is, he expressed no knowing of her feelings, her motivations, her values, nothing. He only shared dry facts about her. In his interactions with people replying to his thread, he took none of the input in. Absolutely nothing. Same in his relationships with people outside this thread, I believe. This is why his insight into himself is so poor. He doesn’t consider what other people feel, value; what makes people tick. He may touch on this or that, but very momentary and superficially. His understanding of himself and others is summed up in his common phrase: “I can’t explain it”.

    His thrill is in waiting for the love he didn’t experience. The need is still there.; the experience itself isn’t. The experience is impossible for as long as he “can’t explain (any of) it”.

    anita

     

    #218057

    anita
    Participant

    * Dear Brian: if you would like to start your own thread and receive input from me/ other members, you can copy the above and paste it there (go to FORUMS above), adding what kind of input, if any, you would like.

    anita

    #221795

    John
    Participant

    Hi all. I didn’t fall off the earth. Just needed some time. I’m trying to take everything in. I do hear everything you all are telling me. I’ve had some time to process all of this. I think there is some truth in what you have all said.

    I think that I’m just forever in love with my ex and I don’t think that will ever change. (At least at this point). I have been dating and I have done things that are fun and exciting. But the fact is that I still miss her and think about her every day. I’ve gone camping, riding, trips to the coast for the day, car shows, all kinds of stuff that I love and that we used to do. But no matter who it’s with or how much fun I do have. I still end up remembering her and missing her. I just don’t get butterflies anymore with anyone I have dated. And I’ve been putting myself out there. There is the initial excitement but nothing lasts. I have come to accept that I am in love with a woman that I will never be with again. It hurts and there are still days that I breakdown and cry. But I am happier with myself. There are tough days still and I will always have some hope that someday she will contact me and want to meet or talk. But I know the reality is that it is over and she has moved on and started a new life without me. I am doing my best to do the same. In fact I have been dating someone for a little while now that I do have feelings for. They are not as strong or the same as I have my ex. But I honestly don’tt think that I ever willl experience that again. I have a strong belief that loving someone like that only happens once in a lifetime. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe this one will turn into something the same or more or maybe down the road I will meet someone that turns my world upside down. Until then I’m going to have to be happy for what she did give me. I can’t wait for the day though that I can look back and smile and feel good about the time we had together and not be sad because it didn’t last.

    #221831

    Brandy
    Participant

    Hi John,

    I’m so glad you didn’t fall off the earth and I understand why you’d need some time to take everything in and process it.

    Funny, I did the same thing you did, took time to process everything, and I feel that I’ve learned some things from you and others here. I believe that the painful experiences you had as a young boy during your development taught your young brain what to expect and how to respond. For example, you say you’ll always have hope that your ex will contact you to meet or talk, a sentiment that I believe became very familiar to you when you were a kid and your mom repeatedly abandoned you. When a child’s brain is developing, traumatic events like those you experienced affect that development. I believe that the intense pain that this recent breakup has caused you has been exacerbated by the similar pain you experienced in your childhood, and that the right “coaching” can undo the damage and enable you to move through painful experiences better than you do now. We all go through tough times but we all have different coping strategies. Instead of holding on to the hope that this woman is going to contact you, search for ways to heal the wounds of your childhood. If you can’t afford quality psychotherapy, ask members here for advice on how to heal  so that you can move on from your ex and open yourself up to falling in love with someone else. I hope that’s what you’ll now begin to focus on: healing your childhood wounds.

    B 🙂

    #223737

    John
    Participant

    hello again.

    You remember the gal with the kids.  I did start dating her again.  I really do have feelings for her.  I have realized that don’t think i will ever feel the same as I did my ex girlfriend for anyone and am accepting that.  However i do have strong feelings for her.

    So anyways, we are  doing good.  She is a really good woman  and i do see us being happy together.  Just might be a bumpy road getting there.  She has a lot of baggage also.  But, we do fit well together, when I’m with her i feel good.  And i do miss her also when we are apart.

    Yes, i still miss and do think about my ex.  I can’t help it and honestly don’t know if i will ever be able to not.  I gave her every bit of my heart and soul and i will always love her deeply.  That is something i have to learn to live with and be able to move on and love someone else.

    So here is the latest shit in my life….  I’ve had a roommate for almost two years now. (be two years in November).  Well last November he got severely depressed.  just shut down completely, hid in his room and then disappeared for a couple weeks.  It was  a hard winter/spring.  But i did whatever i could to help him.  Pretty much supported him financially and in any other way i could.  He seemed to pull out of it and was doing well for himself this spring/summer.  I then told him in June that i would like for him to move out before september.  He then got quite again and I thought he was getting depressed, but okay.  He then started eating all my food, using my stuff and not talking or messaging my at all.  So i thought i tried the good guy thing for too long and started giving tough love to him.  I told him he needs to find a place and be gone and that i wasn’t screwing around.  So he kept ignoring me, taking my cans and  bottles, and eating all my food and hiding in his room.  So i decided that i need to get him out of his room and i thought if I hide all my food in my RV and all the toiletries in my bathroom and lock up everything that he would have to leave to go to the store, then I can confront him.

    Well that all backfired.  It was a week ago  last monday night.  My ex-wife called me at 11:15(i went to bed at 9:30) and woke me up concerned about my friend.  He had posted on FB about spreading his ashes at Salt creek falls!  So i got up and went to his room, his door was unlocked and i slowly opened it expecting the worse.  He was sitting on his bed in the dark and slammed it shut and locked it before i could do anything.  So my ex-wife came over and we tried talking to him for quite a while.  Still no response.  So i called the police out to my house.  Hoping that they could convince him to open his door and maybe take him in so he could get help.  Well they got no response either, so they asked me if I wanted them to bust in the door or leave him alone.  I told them I want him to get help, so go ahead and get in there.

    As soon as they busted in the door, he shot himself.   I couldn’t believe it!  I knew he wasn’t doing well, but i didn’t think he would do that.  absolutely just put me in shock.  So this last week or so has been really crazy and kind of rough.  really has made me think about my life and all my choices and decisions i have made.

    I’m so ready for some real good positive anymore.  It honestly feels like i’ve spent my whole life trying to climb out of a hole.  I get to where i can barely get my hands out and start pulling myself out and then i fall back in.  I’m so tired anymore, so tired of that happening.  Before with my marriage.  We were struggling financially in the beginning, but got by.  Everything was good.  Then we bought a house and found out shortly after that my job was in jeopardy.  I was able to find new work, and became an apprentice and then eventually became an electrician.  Everything was good and then i got played off 2-1/2 years in.  it got rough, then I was got picked up by another company.  Dream job.  They loved me.  I was in the works to run the whole thing and eventually become partner.  Then out of the blue, that company falls apart.  I’m laid off again.  this time for over a year(that’s when the recession first hit).  my wife got laid off shortly after as well.  We were both out of work for a long time, with a little one. ended up having to sell everything i could and still lost the house and went bankrupt.   After about a year i got picked up by another company(been here for 8 years now, so that’s good) and then my ex-wife found work too.  We still struggled.  Renting a house now.  her schedule and mine were opposite, so no daycare was good, but we never saw each other and that contributed to our separation.  When we finally got to a point where she was going to be making decent money and on a fixed schedule, it felt like things were going to get better.  That’s when she left me.  down i go again….  So i was left with High rent and the dog and whatever else.  I made it work for two years.  didn’t date or even have interest in dating.  Then i started to because i was lonely.  I short term dated a few different woman, then i met my ex.  BAM!  Heart stopped!  this is it.  found the one!    Everything was better than ever and only had a wonderful future ahead of me.  Then a year later, you all know what happened.  back in my hole again.  this time worse than ever.  Now i’m climbing out again.  Now this with my friend that i’ve known for over 15 years.  someone i tried to help and be there for.  Makes me wonder if i didn’t do enough, if i should of barged into his room when he first shut the door.  I really feel like I failed him and pushed him to this with my “tough love”.

    I’m really trying to stay positive and be happy.  I do have something with my GF now.  I just really hope that it will grow into something amazing like i had before.  I think it’s different because it wasn’t instant and i didn’t fall in love like before.  I think with my GF now it’s going to take time.  especially considering that it is different considering she has her kiddos  full time all the time.  We don’t get the time like i was used to with my ex.  I’m really hoping that this will work out.  I do love her.  I know that.  I don’t love her like i did my ex.  But like i said.  I honesty don’t think i will ever love like that again.  Something about my ex…  I can’t explain it.  I still feel connected to her in some ways.

    Why is love and life such a bitch?  (not looking for an answer).  then I’m not looking for pity or feeling sorry for myself.  Just venting.  Sorry that i’m all over the place today.  I am so ready to have a life that i smile everyday.  A life that I’m truly happy.  I had that once for about a year and it was freaking amazing.  Seriously have never been that happy in my life before.  I want that feeling back so bad.  I’m really hoping that I come out of all this in a better place.

    will it work out with my GF?  only time will tell.  If not, then i guess i will move on then.  I’m going to stick it out and give it a chance.  I really think because of this cloud over my head and fog around my heart it is keeping me from being able to be all in.  I’m being positive and thinking that in time, i will feel like i should.

    One thing that is kind of screwed up about me is that i still have that little bit of hope inside that maybe someday, my ex will come back to me.  maybe not in  a month or a year or even 10 years.  Even 20 years from now, if she did.  At this point how i feel today, if i still felt like that then.  I would give it a second thought.  If that isn’t true love for someone, then i don’t know what is.

    The reality is that she is gone for good.  I know that and that is why i’m trying this with my GF now.  I can’t help that hope i have though.  Maybe over time it will fade out as well.

    whew!  i guess i’ve been holding some stuff in for awhile.  Sorry again it’s so back and forth.  kind of just threw up a bunch of words and thoughts here…

    #223765

    Brandy
    Participant

    John,

    Your friend of 15 years killed himself in your home one week ago, and you were there when it happened?

    If a long-time friend of mine killed himself in my home, I would without a doubt require hard core professional psychotherapy to get me through it.  I would make an appointment immediately. I would not rely on a website with random untrained people (like me) on it to help me through this.

    My brain has trouble processing a single post that first describes in detail the events that led to the recent suicide of a friend and then to the hope that an ex-girlfriend will return someday. My untrained brain cannot connect the dots.

    If you’re wrestling with feelings that you failed your friend and pushed him to suicide like you mentioned in your post, you need professional guidance. Take this seriously and fix it now.

    B

    #223963

    anita
    Participant

    Dear John:

    I didn’t address you for a long while but I kept reading all your posts and it has been a fascinating experience for me to get to know you on this thread. I didn’t address you because at one point on I realized that nothing I wrote to you (and nothing anyone wrote to you) stuck, nothing at all was considered. It was as if all  input by those who replied to you, slid off you like oil slides of new Teflon, when it is really effective, nothing sticks, nothing considered.

    I write to you today because maybe, just maybe, a very, very small maybe, you will pay attention and consider. My purpose is to help you (“Help me please” is in the title of your thread).

    First, what I learned about you, second, the Help part.

    You are a likeable guy, you do have some good social skills. You use humor, you have a flowing way of telling things, when you do respond to those who reply to you, you say things such as: there is some truth to what you say, or you restate something that the person wrote to you, giving the impression that you heard the person and consider what you heard.

    But you don’t. It is your social skill engaging the person, as if you are listening, or reading and considering what they are saying. In addition, you don’t get aggressive, you respond kindly enough and that keeps the person motivated to post to you again.

    Only you considered nothing and repeat the same old, same old, monologue.

    I learned that what motivates you is feelings alone, that is, Feelings with no touch of Insight. And this is what makes you so interesting to me, the extreme No Insight, All Feeling motivation and way of operation.

    A term you often use, including in your most recent post, is “I can’t explain it”. No insight. When you responded to people, repeating something they said, it may sound like you were considering it, but that is your social skill, to repeat as if you were considering it, as if you were trying to gain insight. No such thing, really. It is only a social skill.

    One more thing: no insight not because you lack intelligence. Now let’s look at your recent post and how feelings-devoid-of-insight looks like:

    “the gal with the kids… I really do have feelings for her…I don’t think I will ever feel the same as I did my ex girlfriend for anyone… However I do have strong feelings for her… when I’m with her I fee good… I will always love her (the ex girlfriend) deeply… I was lonely.. I met my ex. BAM! Heart stopped!… Everything was better than ever… Something about my ex… I can’t explain it… I am so ready to have a life that I smile everyday. A life that I’m truly happy. I had that once for about a year and it was freaking amazing. Seriously have never been that happy in my life before. I want that feeling back so bad”.

    This is your motivation: to have “that feeling back”. Throughout your thread you expressed no insight as to who your ex girlfriend was, nothing about her thoughts, feelings, motivations, values. You listed some details about her life, that is all, dry details.

    What brought about that feeling you had with her may have been the way she smiled, something about her eyes, or her voice, I don’t know. Nothing more that something like that. Something that made you feel hope, an old hope revived big time.

    One more thing before I get to the second part of my post to you. The people in your life, I think they feel quite invisible,  once they realize you don’t see them, don’t listen to them. They must be feeling alone, your daughters included. Again, you have the social skills, you will go camping with them, act in a likeable way, be helpful, kind at times, repeat what they say here and there, say something to indicate you heard them, but you don’t see them, don’t hear them, don’t know them.

    Now to the second part of my post, the part where I try to help you (“Help me please”, you asked):

    Push through that “I can’t explain it” wall, a bit at a time. Listen, try to get to know a person beyond the dry facts of their lives (how many kids she has, what kind of a job one has, etc.)

    We are all motivated by the desire to feel good. You are not an exception. But because we are humans, to feel good, to feel content, if not happy or excited at all times (an impossibility), we have to aim at some insight. As the social animals that we are, we have to have some insight about other people, not completely, not perfectly, but some.

    Without some insight, you drift through life motivated by the weather alone, so to speak: cloudy today, so I feel bad. The sun is out so I feel good. With some insight, you get to see some sun when it is cloudy. And when it is sunny, you don’t float up in the air and then fall down hard when the sun disappears behind a cloud.

    With some insight, your daughters, others in your life, will feel heard and understood, that will make them feel better and in turn, a closer relationship will make you feel better too.

    anita

     

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  anita.
    #224515

    John
    Participant

    Hi there.  Well it kind of stung a bit reading that last reply.  I’ll do the best i can to answer all of this.  If i am understanding this right, it sounds like i’m self absorbed??

    about this “there is some truth to what you say, or you restate something that the person wrote to you, giving the impression that you heard the person and consider what you heard.”

    I think you are right.  I have been told i say what the others want to hear.  I know i did that with my Ex-girlfriend a lot.  I was too afraid to tell her how i really felt, so i thought i would keep it inside and tell her what I thought she wanted to hear.  That didn’t end the way I wanted it to.

    “you don’t get aggressive, you respond kindly enough and that keeps the person motivated to post to you again”

    I have noticed that i’m not much of a leader per say.  More of a go with the flow kind of guy.  That is something that has always bothered me about myself.  It’s like i would rather take it and harbor, and do whatever instead of standing up for myself and actually doing or saying what i really want.  It’s like I do avoid confrontation.  I don’t think i have any confidence in myself.

    “Throughout your thread you expressed no insight as to who your ex girlfriend was, nothing about her thoughts, feelings, motivations, values. You listed some details about her life, that is all, dry details.”

    Well my ex-girlfriend is warm and caring.  She loves the simple things.  Things like just going and just walking on the beach or watching sea lions.  She would get so excited and just loved that.  She is very loving.  The way she would look at me or just be with me and hold my hand.  Her laugh… ooh when i could get her laughing it was amazing.  She is funny, her sense of humor was incredible.  Again, the little things would make her laugh and smile.  Oh that smile!  and her eyes!  I loved the look she would get with things as silly as seeing seagulls.  She would get so animated and excited.  “look how big they are!”  little things like that.  Sitting with her just watching dumb ass movies…  we would both just lay there and watch till the end, waiting for them to get better and they never would.  How much she loved being with my girls and doing things with them.  You could tell just by looking at her that she really enjoyed it and wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.  We would play games with them, take them to the coast or to the lake.  She would help them and she  loved it.  It’s hard to put it all into words, but she is truly a wonderful, loving, caring woman.  It’s hard to put it all into words.  I did really feel connected to her in a big way.  we did get along amazing.  She even told me that “it was amazing when we were on the same page”.  I lost control and became so insecure whenever something didn’t pan out that i became needy and clingy and wouldn’t let it be instead of just believing her.

    I did/do love everything about her.  And i thought she did me.  I have been in and out of contact with her.  the last time I irritated her again.  She said i kept assuming things.  And from the sounds of what you have all told me, i don’t think she is wrong.  I wonder if that may have been one of the contributing factors to our break up, is that when something wouldn’t work out, i couldn’t believe why  the reason was she told me and i would make up or assume other reasons in my head and believe them and begin to doubt her.  Even texting her recently i still did it.  If she didn’t answer i would assume i pissed her off or something.

    “repeat what they say here and there, say something to indicate you heard them, but you don’t see them, don’t hear them, don’t know them.”

    You are very right here.  I do do that.  looking back and even just recently, if i say something and it causes any kind of conflict, i immediately retract my words and rephrase that.  My current girlfriend has even told me that I don’t listen to her.  In fact my ex girlfriend told me when we broke up that “I hear what i want to hear”

    I know what you’ve told me and i do agree with a  lot of it.  I am trying so hard to fix this about myself.  I want to be that guy that is happy, that doesn’t need other people or things to make me happy.  But i’m not.  I do feel needy all the time.  Maybe it does stem back to my childhood and fear of rejection.

    I do appreciate everything.  As hard as some of this is to read, i do.

    #224521

    anita
    Participant

    Dear John:

    Your most recent post has a different sound to it, as if it was someone else who wrote it. I couldn’t believe it was you until I read something with a familiar ring to it, the way you expressed yourself before, and that was the ass in the “dumb ass movies”.

    I am not very focused right now. Will be back to the computer in about 16 hours and will re-visit your thread, re-read your recent post, and any additional post that may be added to your thread and respond then.

    anita

    #224567

    anita
    Participant

    Dear John:

    “If I am understanding this right, it sounds like I’m self absorbed??”- in my experience of you on this thread, yes you have been self absorbed.

    You wrote that you have been told that you say what others want to hear, and that you did that with your ex girlfriend a lot. You were afraid that she will end the relationship with you if you told her what you truly felt, so you told her what you thought she wanted to hear.

    “That didn’t end the way I wanted it to”, that is, she ended the relationship. I suppose, you were wrong about what you thought she wanted to hear.

    You wrote that you are “a go with the flow kind of guy”. To go with the flow effectively, you have to have an understanding or insight about the nature of the flow. Specifically, if you wanted to really tell your ex girlfriend what she wanted to hear, it would have been useful for you to have insight into how she thinks and feels, what motivates her and what she values. With such insight, you would have a good chance of saying what she truly wanted to hear. Without insight you are shooting in the dark.

    You wrote that she told you that you “kept assuming things”, and you wrote: “I couldn’t believe why the reason was she told me and I would make up or assume other reasons in my head and believe them and begin to doubt her”- this is a big problem in a relationship, when the person stated the truth to you (I assume she did) and you treat her truth as a lie. No wonder you “irritated her again”. It is very irritating for a person sharing her truth to be doubted, repeatedly.

    You wrote that in life you don’t stand up for yourself, don’t do or say what you really want, all so to avoid confrontation. “If I say something and it causes any kind of conflict, I immediately retract my words and rephrase that”- that is crazy making for a person who cares about honest communication to communicate with a person who is basically not honest, that is, saying their truth one moment, then saying what is not true, but without the qualification: this here is my truth, there I am making it up. For an honest person, not knowing when you say the truth and when not, that is crazy making!

    Better you make a practice, John, today and every day to tell the truth, especially to the people you care about. Oh, how refreshing is the truth, how welcome it will be by those who need it desperately.

    You wrote that your ex girlfriend told you that you hear what you want to her, that is you don’t hear what she is saying. Your current girlfriend told you that you don’t listen to her”. We people often have our own voices talking to us while another person is talking to us and we hear our own voices instead of the person’s. It takes noticing what voices you are hearing and then putting yours aside long enough to hear the other person.

    You wrote about your ex girlfriend: “She would get so excited and just loved that… her laughing was amazing… the little things would make her laugh and smile. Oh that smile! and her eyes! … She would get so animated and excited. ‘look how big they are!’ little things like that… How much she loved being with my girls and doing things with them. You could tell just by looking at her that she really enjoyed it and wouldn’t want to be anywhere else… She would help them and she loved it… It’s hard to put it all into words. I did really feel connected to her in a big way”

    It reads to me that what attracted you so intensely to your ex girlfriend was her expressive excitement being with you, that you “could tell just by looking at her that she really enjoyed it and wouldn’t want to be anywhere else”. She was very different from your mother who wasn’t excited being with you, didn’t really wanted to be there with you. This is why she left you, why she disappeared from your life for long periods, and when she was present in your life physically, she wasn’t excited having you in her life.

    But your ex, she really wanted to be with you, she enjoyed herself. That was promising to you, promising that she will want to stay, that she wouldn’t leave.

    “I want to be that guy that is happy, that doesn’t need other people or things to make me happy. But i’m not. I do feel needy all the time. Maybe it does stem back to my childhood and fear of rejection”- yes, it does stem from your childhood, this is where we are all formed, in the years of your childhood.  Because you were rejected a lot in childhood, the fear of being rejected has been intense ever since.

    We can’t help needing other people, this is our  nature, as the social animals we are born to be. We are all people who need people. A solitary animal like a turtle can be as happy as a turtle can be all by itself, but a social animal, like a dog.. impossible!

    I suggest that you make a practice of listening to your current girlfriend, and most importantly (to me), listen to your daughters. Notice your voices, quiet those, and listen to the other person’s voice.

    When you state something that is true to you, and you noticed you feel distress as you think that what you just shared would cause a conflict, pause, don’t proceed to state something not true to yourself so to avoid the perceived conflict. Instead take a deep breath and wait: is there a conflict (there may not be at all). You can also ask the listener what she understood about what you said. For example: what do you feel about what I just said?

    Ask questions so to check your assumptions.

    And do post again anytime you’d like, if you do.

    anita

    #224601

    John
    Participant

    That kind of makes sense about the voices.  It is like when someone is telling me something.  I hear them, but It’s kind of foggy and I hear other things.  For example: My ex would cancel plans because she had a migraine or was feeling sick.  I would believe her at first, then find it hard to believe.  Like, why couldn’t we still be together even if she was hurting?  So then i would start to think that she wasn’t really sick, but just didn’t want to be with me.  insecure much?

    This is all so very hard for me to learn and deal with.  Very disturbing to find out about myself.

    On another subject.  I still miss my ex very much.  I seriously do think about her everyday, there hasn’t been one day since that i haven’t.  And it will have been 10 months on September 9th since we broke up.  How is that possible that after all this time, i still feel the way I do about her?

    I do love my girlfriend now.  She shows me how much she loves me.  She wants to be with me all the time and will do anything for me.  However, I don’t think i will ever love her like i did my ex-girlfriend though.  Is that okay to have that feeling?   I have so much guilt because of that.  I don’t know if that guilt is keeping me from letting it all go, so i can love my girlfriend the way i loved my ex though.

    Do people love people in different ways, but it is okay?  It bothers me so much.  Like i’m not being the man i should with her.  With my ex, i couldn’t wait to talk to her or see her and i would have done anything for her (except really listen to her 🙁  ).  I guess with her though we only saw each other once a week so that may have increased the desire.  But still, i would seriously get ants in the pants when i knew we were going to see each other.

    So again, is it okay to feel like that towards one person, then meet someone else and love them, but not the same?

    Sorry if this is a repeat of before.  But I am trying to really listen to what you say now.  I do know that i haven’t really before.  Reading back on my old posts i did phrase things just to agree with you and not believe them myself.  Just like you said, i was teflon.  I like to think rubber though.  everything would just bounce off me.  No matter who was saying it.  This is such an awakening.  And this recent discovery has really hurt to find out.  I think the most hurt is that if i would of been aware ( i new i was lying (omitting is lying right)with my ex,  but the voices in my head justified it) of this, really been aware.  Then maybe my ex and i would still be together.  I always thought “she never would talk to me”.  After reading this all.  Makes me wonder is she really did talk to me and i just distorted what she said and did only hear bits and pieces, not everything.  WOW.  This really hurts to learn all of this.

    I know, i’ll never know if it would of worked or not, and I can’t dwell on it.  I try not to, but dang it’s tough.

    I hope i can do positive with all of this info.  I really do hope I can build a happy and fulfilled life with my current girlfriend.  She really is a wonderful and loving woman.  She even has told me that all she wants is for me to let her love me.  I want that too.  It’s so hard to give in and let go of the past.

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