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wouldn’t be a mercy if i just ended my life?

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  • #381316
    Murtaza
    Participant

    I see you’re not too keen to work with a therapist, and not necessarily just because you don’t have money

    oh really ? please tell me why on earth i would refuse a unconditional love, acceptance and compassionate

     

      (or almost impossible)

    i can finally suffer in peace

     

    but I’d like to say first that the core wounding happens in a relationship, therefore healing happens in the context of a relationship too

    you even know the amount of luck to find such female, if she even exist in iraq? and the amount of girls i have to talk to just to find this person, the amount of change i have to do in order to be liked by any female that was programmed to like a normal person, a “man”, i have to meet a lot of requirement that i don’t have, in order to get any kind of female, let alone the one that even know that mental health actually exist, and haven’t been brainwashed by society ideas and beliefs, you clearly have no idea

    #381318
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza,

    I see you’re not too keen to work with a therapist, and not necessarily just because you don’t have money

    oh really ? please tell me why on earth i would refuse a unconditional love, acceptance and compassionate

    Because you said twice that you don’t want anything that requires “therapy or people”. You earlier said that you lost people – as in, you don’t really have close contacts with anybody except your sister. If  I understood well, you only communicate with people online. All that lead me to believe that your rejection of working with a therapist might not be just about money. But I might be wrong about that.

    you even know the amount of luck to find such female, if she even exist in iraq?

    When I said that healing happens in the context of a relationship, I didn’t mean romantic relationship but a therapeutic one. Any good therapist is trained to give you the so-called unconditional positive regard, to have compassion and understanding for you, to be non-judgmental, to see you and validate you. We cannot expect our romantic partner to be our therapist. We first need to work on ourselves so we can be capable of a healthy, fulfilling intimate relationship.

    You can work on yourself by yourself, without a therapist. I gave an example of a youtube channel where you can start. There are many such channels, with lots of free material, if you’re interested. There are also online courses at affordable prices, which provide more in-depth information than the free stuff. So you’ve got options, you don’t have to “suffer in peace”.

     

    #381399
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Because you said twice that you don’t want anything that requires “therapy or people”

    because i obviously don’t have those

     

    All that lead me to believe that your rejection of working with a therapist might not be just about money

    it doesn’t matter why, the truth is, there is nothing like that in iraq

     

    but a therapeutic one. Any good therapist is trained to give you the so-called unconditional positive regard, to have compassion and understanding for you, to be non-judgmental, to see you and validate you.

    i remember when i went to a “therapist” in iraq, it was very funny and a waste of time, as soon as i entered i told her that one of my problems is apathy, she was like “well in here you need to forget about that, in here you must care, too much” i was like “well i guess im gonna quit” she laughed told me i haven’t even started yet, at the end of our session i told her i always wanted someone to understand me, someone to accept me, she told me “then what?” the whole point of therapy for her is to change and live life according to society, she is what you call ” a practical person”, i remember she telling me that “i need to re program myself to think positive” i really don’t know what degree she have, but she “and most of the people in the middle east” seem to think that “positive” thinking somehow attract good things, its laughable, its actually has a name “law of attraction” pseudoscience is a common thing in the middle east, not only i have to bear all these stupid people, but also i have to follow them (the therapist), i like when a “therapist” project her silly beliefs and values on me, like somehow her pov of the world becomes objective, that’s why i don’t like the idea of therapy,  i don’t want anyone to advice me, no one is allowed to do that

     

    You can work on yourself by yourself

    my problems (as you already said requires the intervene of other people), well are you ready to accept the fact ?

     

    So you’ve got options, you don’t have to “suffer in peace”.

    ah yes, the illusion of the choice, or whatso called “hope”, nah thanks, already watched hundred of videos on YouTube about mental health, all have the same themes “workout, meditate, drink water etc” the same bullshit, i think im good where im at right now, and if we are talking options, better suggest the best one

    #381400
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza,

    I am sorry you had a bad experience with a therapist. What she told you doesn’t seem professional. Like when you complained about apathy, she told you you must forget about it and start caring. Not a good approach, I think. Instead, she should have explored the causes of apathy with you, rather than telling you to think positive.

    that’s why i don’t like the idea of therapy, i don’t want anyone to advice me, no one is allowed to do that

    I hear you. A good therapist doesn’t give advice, or only rarely, but rather helps the client come to their own conclusions. Helps them remove the obstacles to their happiness.

    already watched hundred of videos on YouTube about mental health, all have the same themes “workout, meditate, drink water etc” the same bullshit

    The channel I suggested goes a bit deeper than that, but it’s true that it’s quite practical, it gives suggestions what to do to reduce anxiety, better regulate our emotions, better deal with depression etc. But if you want something really deep, which talks about childhood trauma and how it leads to our adult problems, specially addiction, watch Gabor Mate’s videos. He’s just released a 1,5 hour film, called “The Wisdom of Trauma”, and it’s free to watch until tomorrow. You can access it at wisdomoftrauma . com (without spaces).

     

    #381437
    Murtaza
    Participant

     I didn’t enjoy it much Thursday, I am not enjoying myself right now

    i thought it was about my past remark, so i point it out to make sure

     

     

    when we suffer less, make us desire life. This desire for life is hidden when we are depressed, but it is not gone

    i actually don’t want to desire life, its too expansive for me

     

     there is a question mark at the end, making it a question, not an affirmative statement. There is a hidden desire to live in this title

    yes, that is the dreamy thinking, hope you might say, although i was asking only for validation (and the hope is to be wrong)

     

    your inborn desire to live

    i don’t see these things worth it honestly, though i was just saying the things that i do have and feel grateful for, and to not be advised to change my lifestyle, since i already think this is the best one for me

     

     a desire that is a core characteristic in all that is alive

    hmm, do i wanna survive? yes, do i wanna live? no (by living i mean the normal way), is survival worth it? no

     

    these days, i feel so numb, a numbness like no other, i sometimes miss the sadness i used to feel all day when i wasn’t on drugs, the insomnia, the killer boredom, the urgent desire for intimacy, im glad all that is gone, i always wanted to live like this, a zombie, just existing

     

    i wanted to ask you something, there is this thing, i will give an example, im sitting comfortably watching a movie and i remember what i lost (females) usually this idea doesn’t bother me i leaned to accept it, but when it comes fast in my mind, it feels like a slap out of nowhere, i get annoyed for 5 sec then it goes away, this happen often, if i see (in movies or social media) or think about this kind of thing, mostly its the jealousy thing, when i see someone else have what i really craved for, then i remember its my fault, then i just remember it doesn’t matter to me anymore, when this happen often i laugh or just say F**K, sometimes even loud, i remember reading something about this for the people that have OCD, though this is bit different, what do you think ?

    #381441
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    “I thought it was about my past remark, so I point it out to make sure”- glad you asked.

    “wouldn’t be a mercy if I just ended my life?… I was asking only for validation (and the hope is to be wrong)”- maybe one day it will be an act of mercy, for you.. for me. Not yet, not today.

    In regard to things you enjoy, such as listening to music, watching a good movie, seeing the way your little sister sometimes looks at you, etc., you wrote: “I don’t see these things worth it honestly”, saying that you detailed those things so to “not be advised to change my lifestyle, since I already think this is the best one for me”. I understand.

    “Do I wanna survive? Yes, do I wanna live? No (by living I mean the normal way), Is survival worth it? No”- you acknowledge an inborn want to survive (true to all living forms), and a cognitive evaluation that surviving is not worth it, an evaluation possible only to thinking humans. I wonder what would happen if you were magically transported to a magical parallel universe where life is just what you would want it to be, such that would make you want to live that life. What would that life be (?)

    “These days, I feel so numb, a numbness like no other, I sometimes miss the sadness I used to feel all day when I wasn’t on drugs, the insomnia, the killer boredom, the urgent desire for intimacy, I’m glad all that is gone, I always wanted to live like this, a zombie, just existing”- detachment/ dissociation from emotions.. not alive (not experiencing emotions) but not yet dead.

    “I wanted to ask you something.. I’m sitting comfortably, watching a movie, and I remember what I lost (females)… When it comes fast in my mind, it feels like a slap out of nowhere, I get annoyed for 5 sec then it goes away, this happen often… When I see someone else has what I really craved for, then I remember it’s my fault, then I just remember it doesn’t matter to me anymore, when this happen often I laugh or just say F**K, sometimes even loud, I remember reading something about this for the people that have OCD, though this is bit different, what do you think?”-

    – I think that within your brain there is a Normie Murtaza whose loyalty is to the Normie World, and once in a while, it slaps you, adding words that are too quick to clearly hear, such as: you *&** (name calling), it is all your fault, you are not like the rest of us, you are less than us.. (slap!)

    * A few days ago, riding in the car, bored.. I happened to hear a familiar song on the radio, Bohemian Rhapsody, and I thought of you, that it is as if you wrote many of the words (and it has the Arabic touch “bismillah”, in the name of Allah): “Too late, my time has come. Sends shivers down my spine, body’s aching all the time. Goodbye, everybody, I’ve got to go. Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth. Mama, ohh.. I don’t wanna die. I sometimes wish I’d never been born at all”-

    – Even before I connected the song to you, hearing the words “I sometimes wish I’d never been born at all” brought up in me a strong emotion, because I thought it myself many times. Strange thing, after feeling that emotional pain in I-wish-I’d-never-been-born-at-all, I felt better. When a painful emotion gets to be invited out, such as in being invited by this song, a good emotion follows- a feeling of being alive.

    In my mind’s eye, I am seeing you right now on the roof, under the night Iraqi sky, singing Bohemian Rhapsody.

    anita

     

    #381443
    Murtaza
    Participant

     I wonder what would happen if you were magically transported to a magical parallel universe where life is just what you would want it to be, such that would make you want to live that life. What would that life be

    its funny that you asked that, because i always think of that option, i actually just had an idea just before seeing your post “i don’t think happiness is achievable in this  universe, but maybe in some other universe, where live is a bit more fair, a bit less hard for me, to answer your question, i will answer it in two ways, the magical one (which is impossible to achieve) and the middle ground one, the first one gotta be to be a baby again, not only that, but to have a mother that actually know what love is, i actually think this is heaven, and i don’t want to grow up in that universe, infinite unconditional love :D, the second would be to have a normal life, a wife, maybe even a daughter, though i would at least ask for a wife that i can be myself in front of, seems like a good life

     

    I think that within your brain there is a Normie Murtaza whose loyalty is to the Normie World

    i really don’t think having some normie qualities bothers me, since i know it was uncontrollable to have such

     

    you *&** (name calling), it is all your fault, you are not like the rest of us, you are less than us

    no its not like that, perhaps i didn’t make myself clear, its the thought of not having what i crave, love accepting etc.., from females, the both jealously and envy to other men that have it, and the thought of never having such thing, then the fast next thought would be (its my fault) which is kinda true i guess

     

    In my mind’s eye, I am seeing you right now on the roof, under the night Iraqi sky, singing Bohemian Rhapsody

    it do be like that, only i have a bad taste in music 😀

    #381454
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    Having just read your last line with the happy face emoji.. you saying that you like my image of you singing on the roof- it made me feel love for you, what a nice feeling it is, hard to describe, it brings a smile to my face. It’s there, the feeling and from time to time it awakens.

    “To answer your question, I will answer it in two ways, the magical one (which is impossible to achieve).. to be a baby again..  to have a mother that actually knows what love is, I actually think this is heaven, and I don’t want to grow up in that universe, infinite unconditional love”-

    – When I asked, I thought of this answer because you described it before. I think that you are right, this is heaven.. and that very early-life experience (when a baby still feels loved and protected) is a great motivator in adult behavior, such as in when a man falls in love with a woman,  expecting to re-experience heaven (that expectation is what the euphoria of falling in love is about), followed by disappointment, of course.

    “and the middle ground one.. to have a normal life, a wife, maybe even a daughter, though I would at least ask for a wife that I can be myself in front of, seems like a good life”- if only there is just one woman, just one (in the area where you live), who would be okay with you not working, etc., you just need one for this parallel universe to be your own.

    “I really don’t think having some normie qualities bothers me, since I know it was uncontrollable to have such”- oh, okay- that’s better that you are okay with having an inner-normie. I agree: it’s uncontrollable.

    “No it’s not like that”- let me see: you learned to accept that you will not have a woman in your life (girlfriend/ wife). But often, you are sitting comfortably, watching a movie, and out of nowhere a thought in regard to not having a woman in your life hits your brain, feeling like a slap, and you get annoyed for five seconds and then it goes away. When you see (in a movie or in social media) another man having a woman in his life, you feel jealous or envious, and you tell yourself that it is your fault (but not in an angry way), and you then laugh or just say f***, sometimes loudly. You asked me if I thought it is an OCD thing-

    – the term intrusive thoughts came to my mind but what you described doesn’t fit the term. You described a thought appearing out of nowhere- but that’s usually the case when it comes to thoughts. What you described though is not just any thought appearing uninvited, but a powerful thought that slaps you, so to speak. A way to think of the word emotion is e-motion, or energy in  motion. The thought of not having a woman in your life has an emotional attachment to it, and like a rocket, the emotional attachment drives the thought into a crash with your brain, which feels like a slap.

    Annoyance, jealousy, anger- these are energies-in-motion that are attached (at least at times) to thoughts of other men having what you don’t. What all this is telling me (according to my current understanding) is that sometimes you feel peace or indifference to the the idea of never having a woman in your life, but too often you don’t feel peace or indifference to the idea.

    anita

    #381483
    Murtaza
    Participant

    im glad that you enjoy our conversation

     

    followed by disappointment, of course

    i like that line 😀

     

     if only there is just one woman, just one (in the area where you live), who would be okay with you not working, etc., you just need one for this parallel universe to be your own.

    even if there is, its nearly impossible to talk to her, since in iraq there is no social settings, and people never take online thing seriously, even if i somehow talked to her, then what?

     

    and out of nowhere a thought in regard to not having a woman in your life hits your brain, feeling like a slap

    let me correct myself, not out of nowhere, often i see something or hear something that reminds me

     

    Annoyance, jealousy, anger- these are energies-in-motion that are attached (at least at times) to thoughts of other men having what you don’t

    not only of the thought that a man having what i want, but that i can’t have such thing, and that’s its partly my fault (for not working towards such thing)

     

     is that sometimes you feel peace or indifference to the the idea of never having a woman in your life, but too often you don’t feel peace or indifference to the idea

    the way i see it, is that its just my programming, valuing women too much and have a dreamy thinking on how it could be to be in a relationship,  the thing i try to do, is see the truth, the bad sides of relationships, especially in iraq, if you say relationship in iraq, the very next thing that appears to anyone minds is marriage (responsibility), to me this feels like a cage, i actually have no desire to start a family, just gets my needs met, in my previous post i said i might have a daughter, i only say this thing if this went perfect, which they won’t, i will never bring anyone into this world, unless i know they gonna have a happy life, with this mindset, half…. , no actually most females won’t marry me, since their parents would want babies, with the combination of having no social settings with females, and the things i mentioned above, its actually smarter to just give up and save the unnecessary suffering, i actually have no choice here, i know that this is the truth, and im obligated to lessen my suffering and go for the easy way, i won’t forgive myself…. , no i would HATE myself if i do such thing

    #381489
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    You do notice when I enjoy talking to you (and when I don’t). I am impressed.. you are keenly perceptive when it comes to emotions.

    “if only there is just one woman, just one (in the area where you live)..”—“even if there is, its nearly impossible to talk to her, since in Iraq there is no social settings… even if I somehow talked to her, then what?”- I just looked at photos from the summer of 2020 at avax. news/ a look at life in Iraq, to see how women are dressed and a bit about how daily life looks like in Iraq. I also read some from Wikipedia’s entry on Women in Iraq.

    “The way I see it, is that its just my programming, valuing women too much and have a dreamy thinking on how it could be to be in a relationship.. the truth.. if you say relationship in Iraq, the very next thing that appears to anyone minds is marriage (responsibility), to me this feels like a cage.. I will never bring anyone into this world, unless I know they gonna have a happy life, with this mindset.. most females won’t marry me, since their parents would want babies.. it’s actually smarter to just give up and save the unnecessary suffering, I actually have no choice here, I know that this is the truth, and I’m obligated to lessen my suffering and go for the easy way…  would HATE myself if I do such thing”, such a thing as getting married, taking the expected route of work, marriage, children.

    I took a long time reading this morning. I slowly read the paragraph above, letting it sink in, and I understand you today better than ever before. I see your choice as thoroughly sensible. Even more than making sense, I see it as a GOOD choice because it includes not hurting anyone (!) and not bringing children into a life that’s likely to be a lot of suffering (!!)

    I get it. I hope to read from you soon.. what is the temperature there, I wonder? And is there a lake close to where you live where you can get into the cool water on a hot summer day?

    anita

    #381630
    Murtaza
    Participant

     I see it as a GOOD choice

    thank you, although this was late, it seems i only feel bad when people mentation bad things about me and not the opposite

     

     because it includes not hurting anyone (!) and not bringing children into a life that’s likely to be a lot of suffering (!!)

    that’s not the only reason, but i thought if im gonna have children am gonna adopt, either way its not worth it to bring someone that is mostly likely gonna suffer, even if i KNOW he won’t it still better to adopt, its like saving someone or creating someone to save

     

     what is the temperature there, I wonder?

    very hot

     

    And is there a lake close to where you live where you can get into the cool water on a hot summer day?

    no lakes here, only buildings and stores, i live in the city, we have 3 showers at home, and all have cold and hot shower, and air conditioner in every room

    #381659
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    We have very similar view of bringing children into the world to suffer vs adopting. Connecting this to the title of your thread: it would be mercy to .. not bring children into this world.

    It is 6:45 pm in Iraq, evening, the temperature is down to.. right under 40 Degrees Celsius. The temperature will go down further to its lowest at about 5 am, when it will be 26.6 degrees, and from then on, it will go up to 41 degrees tomorrow. Good thing that the humidity is low and that you have air-conditioning in every room.

    In Southern Iraq, in Nasiriyah, the provincial capital of the Dhi Qar Governorate, Haidar Al-Fatlawi, a musician with a passion for electronics invented a solar-powered, long-range surveillance camera- it works  without electricity or the internet (today’s Shafaq News)

    In Northern Iraq, in Kurdistan, 458 new Covid-19 cases and 6 new Covid-19 deaths were recorded in the last 24 hours, while 537 people who were infected, fully recovered, the Ministry of Health said today.

    I am listening right now to “Hatem El-Iraqi- Ya Teir” music, I like it very much, pleasant to hear it as I sit comfortably, my back against soft pillows, lights are dim and I am looking outside the window at the green trees and pleasant sun. I imagine that you don’t like this  music but I like hearing it, hearing the language you speak and hear every day.

    Looking at random news stories and listening to this music makes me think that Murtaza really does exist in a place that really exists.. far away and yet, close. I will be submitting this and continue to listen to this music, still like it.

    anita

    #381669
    Murtaza
    Participant

    I just wrote something and my page refreshed, so its gone, i guess it wasn’t much, i just had a glimpse, when i checked the song you mentioned, that there is a person in the other side of the world, listening to this, actually talking to me, and what a wonderful person this is, i wish that i actually do something to such person, something that somehow benefit him, i remember i told you about the female friend i had, she is also from Iraq and had similar ideas, she is just too beautiful, she suffers a lot, and i want to help her, though i don’t know, i tried to listen to her, to let her talk about her suffering, i feel her pain, i wanna make it less, the last time we talked, it only seems to bother her, so i stopped, i just wish things were different, i told her i love her, she told me she not interested in love, she just wanna live, the thing is, she misunderstand what i meant by love, she thinks its romantically, but in reality its the same love we having, it hurts me to know that i can’t help her, i tried everything, she just won’t allow me to get this far, i always like to imagine my love to her is more like an artist loving a painting he saw, just admiring the details, appreciating it.

     

    I remember after i told her that i love her, i had a dream, i dreamt i was in my bed, then i just remembered that i lost her, and started crying, but the cry was werid, it was very suppressed, i wanted to tell her, but i felt its too personal, besides it wouldn’t matter, it wouldn’t change anything, before i tell her i love her, i felt guilty for not doing what i can to be a better person, to be liked by her, maybe its the job, maybe its my pessimistic views, maybe its my desires and goals, i wish i was exactly what she want, maybe she will love me then, what would that cost? To me, everything. But when i told her, she told me that it isn’t my fault, its just that she isn’t interested in these kind of things, i didn’t fix her misunderstanding of the word love, but i didn’t see a point anyway, i like to let people think what they want, to make the image they want about me, when we first talked, i didn’t care much how you see me, but to just see me, the real me, then accept and understand, that’s the point, that’s the hard thing for me to do, since both my mother and uncle have this “this person have to like me” belief, and i had to fight this, i might take it too far sometimes, but i see it as an absolute win, to be myself infornt of people that i know exactly will hate me/dislike me

    #381672
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    I want to re-read your recent post later and reply then, a few hours from now, or so. I feel the love!

    anita

    #381680
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    It is right after 7 pm Friday here, and where you are- it’s right after 5 am Saturday, the coolest time of the day to come. I am listening to the PBS news in the background, the talk is about the elections in Iran, the bordering country to yours, and about the U.S. democracy having almost been lost, a democracy still in danger.

    I read your recent post a few times, and there is so much in it, so much emotion, so much love. I think that you need to be loved like you loved your former female friend, to be loved like a piece of art, a painting: not to be analyzed, dissected and judged by societal standards, but instead- to be appreciated/ loved for the appreciating, loving human-artform  that you are.

    I am tired and I hope that I am making sense. I will be back to your thread in about 11 hours.

    anita

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