Forum Replies Created
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anitaParticipantDear Stacy:
“It’s so embarrassing that I feel like I should reach out again and just thoroughly apologize for projecting so much onto him and for throwing his issues he struggled with in his face. With no other expectation other than to just apologize. But I try to remember I already did that once”-
– Because of your pre-existing shame, you are overreacting to your.. less than desired, or wrong behavior with him. Guilt is an emotional state that benefits us only to the extent that we correct our wrong behaviors. Any more guilt than what is required for us to correct our wrong behaviors is unnecessary and pointless suffering.
Shame in this context is all unnecessary and pointless suffering. There is a term for it: Toxic Shame.
I hope that you don’t call him and apologize again and instead, correct the part of your behavior that was wrong in the future, with other people. And remember he was and is far from being perfect.
“I know months back that you focused more on how little my behavior had to do with what his behavior and choices were based on his internal struggles of his own, so that’s the only part where I’m a little confused. I don’t know the extent I am responsible for the breakup“-
– Here is what I think: a healthy, satisfying, adult relationship with him was and is not possible because he never had one and because he lives with his parents and because he spends too much time online and because he seems to have no career aspirations, and.. and… And so, the issue for me is not that you are responsible for the breakup, but that there was no promising future to the relationship at all.
“Back in September, you said, …’he spends his time in pornography and sexual fantasies…” …”His way has been mostly to distract himself from this thirst for love via kinky sexual fantasies, porn and thirst traps…’ in reference to me being upset at him for admitting to losing attraction. I thought it was in moments like this where I understood that my hurt in him looking at other women and feeling undervalued was warranted… But unfortunately you’re right – why would my current ex want me to continue with him or move closer to him in the future and just continue the energy I gave him like this? It was draining!”-
-like I said, so many things about him make him NOT a candidate for a lifetime relationship with any woman, including the fact that he spent much of his time watching pornography and distracting himself with sexual fantasies instead of focusing on employment and forging his own independent life away from his parents.
Your focus on him liking photos of women in bikinis etc., that’s your deep emotional wound that his activities triggered. An appropriate partner for you would be one who is busy working, doesn’t watch pornography, and doesn’t like girls in bikini photos, not because you told him not to, but because that was not his habit to begin with.
“The biggest mental block I have is feeling like I caused all of this because I’m a walking self-fulfilling prophecy, just like he said. That he was right when he told me I looked for reasons to criminalize him and I found them. All of these realizations make me feel like I made my bed and now I have to lie in it“-
– The bed you couldn’t have ended up in (if there was no breakup with him) is living with a partner who is independent and responsible. I guess you did cause the breakup as it happened, but.. there was no future to the relationship regardless.
“I feel incredibly shameful about messing the relationship up with my past issues and projections/insecurities. So I feel like I have no room for compassion for myself and he’s the good guy because he thought more rationally and removed himself from a controlling and jealous relationship. He deserves someone better who won’t pressure him so much and I deserve to be alone and sit with what I did until I can get do better“-
– your toxic shame is telling you wrong. Again: you didn’t mess a workable, promising, mature relationship. You messed up continuing to meet him a few times per month and then going about your separate ways after every meeting.. for some time longer than it lasted.
“Also, thank you for hoping this year will be an improvement for me. If I don’t make some kind of breakthrough, I feel like I will continue to suffer unnecessarily. I am happy to hear that your mental state and peace of mind has improved with doing the hard work“- you are welcome and thank you again for your kindness.
To not suffer unnecessarily, you’ll need to resolve this toxic shame. Can you tell me later, when you have the time, what you think about the concept of toxic shame (did you read about it.. I don’t remember if we discussed it before, did we?). Also, what do you think of my input in regard to the nonpromising aspect of a relationship with him to begin with?
anita
January 4, 2024 at 12:33 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426745anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“apparently there is only risk if your blood scores over a 5 and mine was 5.1. So my surgeon said she is 99% sure it is benign, but because it scored over 5, they have a certain procedure to follow“, “I decided to postpone the surgery so that I can get the imaging done first“-
I think it’s the right decision because it’s only a 0.1 difference, and the surgeon is 99% sure it’s benign.
Which reminds me, and I don’t know how I didn’t remember earlier, but a couple or three years ago, I was told that I had a tumor “the size of a lemon” over one of my ovaries. I had blood tests and a very expensive MRI and what was discovered was that it was fibroids (benign) that sort of grew out of the uterus and ended up by an ovary. I was told that nothing needs to be done and that those fibroids will shrink over time.
“I think it was the best decision. I am proud of myself for choosing the patient option rather than just wanted to get it over with, an easier in the moment choice“- I agree, good job, thoughtful and patient Seaturtle!
“I read a lot of studies..“- a thoughtful, patient Seaturtle who educates herself on matters before making choices!
“It annoys me too, and it also reminds me of his immaturity as well as is teflon… by blocking my number he is literally trying to spray his heart with teflon.. I wonder the affects of this for him“- think of the effects of this for you, if you volunteered to a lifetime of being blocked in one way or another, leading to an across the board chakra blockage.
“Just yesterday I was feeling like my sacral chakra needed an outlet, so I went and did a workout. I thought perhaps I could use this energy to get me to the gym?“- reads like a good idea to me.
“‘A board meeting of all chakras’ made me laugh haha, but it is true! headed by the crown chakra!”- I was impressed myself with this particular crown chakra vibration that went through me.
“I don’t feel all my chakras are united right now… My heart is not ready to be with another person though, I feel like I would have flashes of N at this point and it would have the potential to satisfy the sacral and crown while harming the heart. I need an activity that my crown agrees will simultaneously satisfy my heart and sacral chakra. Working out though, I don’t think my heart cares for that…“- how about combining exercise and the writing (typing) of Love Poems. I remember the one you shared here, I liked it!
Good to read back from you so soon (heart chakra emoji)
anita
January 4, 2024 at 11:03 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426741anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
This is an unexpected development, isn’t it, that the blood work came back inconclusive for cancer. It makes sense to have an MRI as soon as possible (today, tomorrow?) and if the result is a definite no-cancer, then remove the benign tumor alone. If there is cancer, then remove the whole ovary.
* I wonder if a 2nd blood work is a good idea?
You wrote regarding the option of removing the affected ovary: “it can result in slightly less estrogen production (my only concern with this option)“- I understand, I just read about symptoms of estrogen deficiency in women. We don’t want hatchling to be moody, irritable or depressed, having hot flashes and night sweats.
“I check in at 11am tomorrow and have a chance to talk further with the surgeon so I will ask her the hormonal questions I have then“- my goodness, it is 11:08 am where you’re at. I can’t wait to read from you later about what is transpiring right now as I am typing these words.
“For now I am leaning on getting it all removed, mostly because I just want it out and an mri sounds expensive“- yes, it is expensive, but PLEASE have it if needed, I can’t think of a better use for F’s money.
“I found myself trying to reminisce with her, a lot of the qualities that her guy has are very similar to N’s nice qualities. One being physically attractive… I think it’s healthy to be able to express the good parts right? Or is that destructive for me? I am not missing N. But I do feel I miss parts“-
– The sacral chakra is interested in parts of a man. The crown chakra is interested in the totality of a man. A happy sacral chakra does not make for a happy crown chakra, as is indicated in the title of your July 29, 2023 thread: “Please help me, my mind hasn’t rested in 8 months“, and in the last sentence of your original post of this thread, Oct 6: “the inner voice of my higher self telling me it’s not right“, your higher self being your crown chakra, and your inner voice being its wisdom vibrating through you.
“It led me to a quote that resonated with me and said ‘I write because I don’t know what I think until I read what I say.’“- it’s like I said those words, substituting type for write.
“The quote made me feel like I was feeling something I was unaware of, and this forum is where I usually come to express and understand myself more so I came here to write about how I’m feeling“- I am so looking forward to you expressing and understanding yourself later today, after you return.
“I texted N on New Years Eve, I don’t regret what I said it was what I was authentically thinking and feeling I said: ‘Happy new years Nathan/ I deeply miss all the good moments we’ve had../ especially our new years together, both years./ This is not easy by any means at all.. but I still believe it is best./ We will connect again soon for some loose ends but until then I truly wish you the best” I was feeling very sentimental the entire day as that was a holiday… Anyways I feel like I’m trying to defend myself a bit over what you may be thinking”-
– first, as I was reading this part, I thought to myself: I don’t like this! but when I read what I boldfaced above, I felt better. When I read that you were trying to defend yourself over what I may be thinking, I felt .. important, as in important enough for you to care about what I am thinking.
“Anyways the whole reason I bring this up is because the message never sent“- oh! (smiley fce emoji).
“And the only reasons a message doesn’t send on an iPhone is either because you are out of service or the other person blocked your number. This is the only contact I’ve had since the breakup… I often remember your metaphor at the danger for the rabbit to have sympathy for a mountain lion (seaturtle and shark). However I still do sometimes… Then I think about the reasons I ended things and the other side of him that was manipulative and gaslighting and I have anger towards that version then there’s the fact he didn’t see me, those reasons are why I trust myself not to go back to him… it’s like I have access to my higher self vibrations at times but I am not always there, I am certainly at low and medium vibrations the same amount of time. I think I maybe get paths crossed when it comes to pleasure and what is actually the best. Cause aren’t I just a robot if I am always just doing what is best? Isn’t the human part of us that wants to go do something because it makes us feel something? What are the benefits of always doing the correct thing… a higher vibration I suppose, but why does that sound boring sometimes. Anita as much as this is hard to say and even admit to myself right now I enjoy the drama sometimes… I am not sure why I feel so open right now, perhaps the time of night. I wonder if these are thoughts I will resonate with still when I feel in a higher vibration.. that is interesting, and perhaps a major tip for journaling. I am wondering if I should send this message or if it is just a complete ramble that I should keep to myself. But perhaps it would be even more helpful to my growth to hear another persons perspective on some of my mind trails… thoughtful seaturtle”-
– (1) I am glad that you did send this message, (2) The thought that he blocked your message, if he did, annoys me, (3) I hope that you get your passport and expensive belongings back soon enough, (4) Your empathy for him is your heart chakra vibrating, (5) Your boredom, desire for drama and excitement, is about having a non-vibrating/ blocked sacral chakra. One way to get it to vibrate is to get engaged in a creative activity (acting in a play would’ve been great). Another way is to engage in a sexual activity, but I am not promoting this option to take place with N!
Sex in a new relationship, a relationship approved by a board meeting of all chakras, headed by the crown chakra, is what I recommend for you!
I am looking forward to reading from you, hoping for the best, thoughtful Seaturtle!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Star:
Welcome to the forums! According to very well mind. com, the first most popular ENFP (Extraverted, Intuitive, Feeling, Perceiving) career is Psychologist, and the 7th is Social worker, your “most ‘me’ career“.
It reads that there are two ENFP subtypes: ENFP-A: someone who is an ENFP-A is known as an “Assertive Campaigner“. This ENFP subtype tends t be more confident and has more emotional control in their relationships, and ENFP-T: known as “Turbulent Campaigners“, often have less confidence and less emotional control, also experiencing more anxiety when dealing with everyday stress.
16 personality types. com reads (I am adding the boldface feature to the following quotes): “It may be important to note that, when compared to the average of all Turbulent individuals from all personality types, Turbulent Campaigners are more likely to say they consider themselves to be successful. This difference may be due in part to Campaigners’ independent spirit. They are more likely to decide that success is whatever they decide success is. Living by their own standards may give them an edge over those who live by the standards of others….
“Assertive Campaigners are less affected by stressors in their lives because they tend to feel more confident in their ability to handle them… Assertive Campaigners believe to a more substantial degree than Turbulent Campaigners that they can maintain a positive focus during bad times… Turbulent Campaigners as a group are less likely than Assertive Campaigners to lay claim to control over their emotions…
“Too much control over emotions can be as damaging as too little control. If there is too much control, Assertive Campaigners can come across as colder and more aloof than Turbulent Campaigners might. Such detachment can leave them appearing a bit arrogant. Again, it’s all relative. Neither personality variant lacks warmth. But Turbulent Campaigners may be able to show their humanity to others a little more quickly and a little more deeply than their Assertive counterparts.
“Summary: * Assertive Campaigners are much more likely to say they see themselves in a positive light than Turbulent Campaigners. *Turbulent Campaigners tend to hang on to their mistakes longer than their Assertive counterparts… * More Assertive Campaigners say they deal effectively with stressors and have control over their emotions. This difference can represent both an advantage and disadvantage in life for either Campaigner personality type. * Research suggests different levels of concern over the opinions of others. Turbulent Campaigners are likely to look for the approval of others, while Assertive Campaigners prefer independence from the appraisal of others.”
Back to your post, Star: “I am quite intelligent, but my heart and emotions prompt my actions many times before I actually think through the best course of action. I still do this and my emotions get the best of me quite often“- reads like a Turbulent Campaigner.
“Throughout my life when reaching out for professional help, my favorite therapist would often remind me that I was ‘putting the carriage before the horse.’.. I am curious if anyone has found ways of how to avoid this. Looking forward to any and all ideas“-
Every day while I take my walk, I repeat in my mind the following: NPARR: Notice, Pause, Address, Respond-or-not, Redirect”. This is what it means to me: first, I Notice when I feel a particular turbulence within me (using the language of the above quotes), noticing that I feel anxious, or overthinking. I direct my attention to the turbulence.
Next, I Pause: I don’t say or do anything as a response to the internal turbulence. Instead of (using your language) of putting the carriage before the horse, I don’t touch the horse or the cart. I do nothing. Instead of allowing an energy-in-motion (e-motion), an impulse, an automatic reaction/ a habit to take me with it wherever it will, I pause.
Next, I Address the situation: what is really happening? What is underneath the turbulence? I clear my vision from the dust created by the turbulence, and with a cleared vision, I see the bigger picture. I then ask myself: what would be an effective response- if any- to what is happening or happened- guided by my chosen values.
Next, I Respond- or- not: I say or do something, or not.
And lastly, I Redirect: think about something else, do something else, get my attention away from the situation I addressed.
More thoughts: further protect the Campaigners’ independent spirit, your independent spirit, from the dust created by any emotion that happens to move through you, particularly habitual emotions and thoughts that have not served you well in the past, so that your independent spirit shines the brightest. Maintain a positive focus on reality while still seeing reality (the reality within and without) as it is, the reality within and without. Further develop confidence in your ability to endure many difficulties and thrive nonetheless.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Star: I would like to read and reply to you in about 10 hours from now.
anita
January 3, 2024 at 6:03 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426724anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
May the Force be with you tonight and tomorrow during your outpatient surgery, I can’t wait to read that you are post-surgery and doing well!
anita
January 3, 2024 at 12:13 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426705anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“You are welcome I am glad you find it useful too and I don’t mind using the metaphor in our thread“- good!
“I found it interesting that you wrote about ‘low vibrational IQ’ when speaking about N’s IQ was something I wanted to get to… I feel like he found conversation ALL of those things (undesirable, boring, threatening). Sometimes he would be defensive (threatened) other times he would just tell me he couldn’t focus and needed to be doing something in order to listen… (bored)..He definitely did not desire conversation as we do“- he had bad experiences growing up and having had conversations with his mother or father or both, or overhearing conversations/ exchanges between his parents, so he’s turned off to conversations.
“Sounds terrible, and is so not relatable since I find conversation a highlight of life“- me too. I am having a conversation with you right here, right now and it is very meaningful to me. I can’t think of anything I’d rather do instead.
“I am not sure if it the sickness I had a couple weeks ago or what exactly, but I have been really tired lately. The smallest tasks are daunting as far as energy, and I have been sleeping longer hours. I want my energy back so that I can give it to myself and do the things that make me happy. Tomorrow I have a surgery, it should be outpatient, as long as there are no complications. I have a benign ovarian tumor that has gotten very big and needs to be removed“-
– this is the first time you are sharing about this.. Is it a non-intrusive surgery aka a minimally invasive procedure? Are you scared, has it been on your mind a lot (although you didn’t share about it)?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Ben:
“I feel so embarrassed to admit that, I haven’t told anyone, but in my mind I am conscious of it and it makes me so nervous. Does it need to make me nervous or anxious? I have no idea”-
– Embarrassment/ shame is a very difficult emotional experience and it involves nervousness and anxiety. Maybe it will help you to share more about your shame..?
“I was thinking today that I’m perhaps nervous about ‘what if it all goes wrong?‘ – he gets bored of it here, with me working, the gloomy winter weather…what if… Or… Or… What if…?“-
– The brain is scanning for all the possibilities where it can go wrong, trying to prepare itself for a future devastation.
“I say this.. and then try to deploy the technique ‘What’s the evidence?’ – well… none really. He says he’s really excited about it.. ‘.. I just want to spend my time with you’“- no evidence in regard to your boyfriend. It’s the old evidence that plagues you, the evidence from childhood.
“Another pressure: part of me perhaps worries about a repeat of last time – remember… my ex visited the same time of year (gloomy winter), I was nervous, clingy, insecure… He was already distant and aloof by the time of his visit… This time? Well… I don’t really see any behaviour from his side that indicates he is ambivalent”-
– Looking at the title of your thread, Love lost, there are no guaranteed that love will not be lost, not for anyone in a romantic relationship. Key is to manage this fear, and one way to do so is to practice Mindfulness and other emotion regulation skills.
“Yet… I worry so much! I tell myself all the time, there’s nothing wrong, nothing amiss. As you say, I end up creating something amiss in my head most of the time“- another way to manage the fear is to get in touch/ become more aware of what really did go wrong, what really did go amiss in your formative years aka childhood, where this excessive fear was formed into your brain. It’d take quality psychotherapy to do that. But maybe sharing more about it here will help..?
“I know my fears don’t make any sense“- your fears make sense in the context where they originated.
“He goes for a drink and forgets to look at his phone for an hour (After I’d not really talked to him for like 5 hours) – I get upset because he then wasn’t ready for our daily call when I was ready (eye roll emoji time!)“- the brain focuses on the negative, and if the negative doesn’t exist, the brain creates it. Try to repeatedly redirect your attention to the positives.
And please do post any time you’d like to, before and during his visit. It is a pleasure to read from you, and I will be glad to reply anytime you post!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Lou92:
Thank you so much for the last paragraph, how kind of you to bother and tell me these things, wanting me to feel good about myself. You are incredible!
“Funnily enough, he would be willing to resolve once I’d lost my temper and stormed out. He would always be the one to come and make the first move at repairing. Not sure why“-
-seems to me that the reason is this: while stonewalling you, his anger was suppressed (pushed down, as in holding his breath and keeping his anger in). When you expressed your anger, storming out, he sort of hitched a ride on your expression and released his anger. No longer holding his breath, relaxed, and seeing you storming out, he was scared that you will leave him, so he went after you.
I think that he experiences a mix of anger at you, and fear that you will leave him. When his anger is down, his fear that you will leave him goes up, and the other way around.
“He has agreed to go to private therapy, which I have arranged for him, so that’s progress, right? It’s psychodynamic therapy too so really going to delve deep into his childhood“-
– If he talks and gets in touch with how angry he felt growing up with his mother, his current positively pleasant yet infrequent interactions with her will change, I imagine. Maybe his current pleasant relationship with his father will change as well. Hopefully, his anger will be redirected away from you and back to where it belongs (his parents, his stepmother), and that will be a great progress.
“We spoke this morning, where he said he was upset because he just wants things to ‘go back to normal’ – I wanted to ask if he meant before he started doing all of these mind games, or just before I found out about it”-
– I think (and I can’t be sure, of course), that in his rush for things to be back to the old “normal”, he agreed to go to therapy. His motivation: to satisfy your requirement for going back to the old normal, not so to create a.. new normal.
“Hopefully the therapy will teach him how to stop stonewalling, and learn how to communicate more effectively. I have always said that communication is the key to a healthy relationship. And he used to agree. I would like to say the proof is in the pudding there. Because his lack of communication over the past year has brought us to this point”-
– I like the term the proof is in the pudding. Interesting to me, in his lack of communication, of verbal lack of communication, he did communicate quite a bit. He communicated his anger and fear, that mix I mentioned earlier in this post.
Thank you again for your kindness and please post again any time you feel like it, and I will reply.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Stacy:
You are welcome! Before I respond, having read only the first few lines of your post, I want to say first that I realized yesterday that I mentioned to you before that there was a part of your behavior with your recent ex that was wrong. Most recently, 3 days ago, I wrote: “You fit only the part of the definition (of a toxic person) in regard to repeatedly asking for validation that you are physically desirable by bringing up the topic, complaining about him liking photos online, etc., which is energy draining on the part of the romantic partner“, but I don’t think that I addressed this behavior thoroughly before, partly because I dislike your ex. I was turned off to him by so many things you shared about him. And I always thought that he wasn’t and wouldn’t be a good choice for you.
But I will thoroughly address it today because if you met a good guy, this behavior (misbehavior, more accurately, so I’ll refer to it as Misbehavior) on your part is destructive enough to destroy any potentially good relationship in the future. It is going to be difficult for you to read but it is necessary to address thoroughly. Please remember that I still think highly of you and that I know that this Misbehavior which I am addressing today can be corrected, making you an even better person than you already are!
Now to your recent post: “Also, I feel that my new rejection wounds are from men who leave me after expressing my concerns. And men who reassure me for an extended period of time and then leave me after trust was built. I didn’t have such activated rejection fears yet in my first relationship”-
– First, regarding trust built, I re-read your original post (Sept 6, 2023), and it is clear to me that in regard to your recent ex, trust was never built, it was never there beyond a moment here, a moment there at the most: “Relationship check ins were happening probably too often… He assured me SO MANY TIMES…But I also wasn’t born yesterday… I know my triggers and paranoias… Something was off. So I panicked and went through his Instagram“, etc.-
– Repeatedly and for an extended period of time, accusing him of wrongdoings, frequently needing him to reassure you (that he is trustworthy), etc., does not equal trusting him.
Second, regarding expressing your concerns to your recent ex, you did much more than expressing your concerns: “I do not like being controlled myself or monitored like a child so the last thing I want to do with my guy… He assured me SO MANY TIMES…. I asked him if he.. He assured me absolutely not. This made me feel better… I appreciated his patience with me. He always reassured me that we were a team and he wasn’t going anywhere…. he had been liking all her bikini photos… he admitted and took accountability for letting me down and he felt a lot of shame and disappointment in himself. I told him I really didn’t want to reprimand him constantly“-
– More than expressing your concerns, you controlled him (tried to), monitored him as if he was a misbehaving child, asked him for reassurance too many times, accused him of wrongdoings and reprimanded him a lot. This Misbehavior will turn any man off to you because it’s an off putting and draining behavior.
Thirdly, at least at times when you argued with him, your position was faulty: “Then I asked him why he likes those types of photos and he tells me it’s a mindless reason. I said but liking them requires effort” (original post)- liking photos online is easily a mindless activity and it does not require any effort!
Fourthly, the effect of this Misbehavior on the receiving end of it: “He said he was so upset with himself… that he was failing“, etc.- the result of being placed under a magnifying glass by a person looking for faults, real and imaginary, being monitored, accused of misdeeds (ex., going to a restaurant with a coworker or coworkers), accused not only of misdeeds but also of mis-thoughts (as in thinking wrong), and mis-feelings (examples: being attracted to bikini photos online, not being attracted to you at any one time) hurts the person on the receiving end of this Misbehavior.
Fifthly, even though you are somewhat aware that this Misbehavior, going all the way to referring to yourself as a toxic person, you are not thoroughly aware that this behavior is wrong: “I said, ‘Umm. What? Are you breaking up with me?‘ He says, ‘Yeah, I guess so.’ I couldn’t believe this had just ended everything. I tried to bargain with him for what felt like an hour… I just kept asking what did it. Why just give up out of nowhere… I asked him if it would help if I could work on moving closer. He rejected it with frustration.. I asked again what was the thing blocking us from just working on this instead of giving up out of nowhere“-
– the breakup was not out of nowhere. Even if he was (and he is not) a standup guy, he would have broken up with you because of this Misbehavior. You weren’t adequately aware of it, and therefore you were very surprised that he broke up with you, and you offered to move closer to him, as in to bring this Misbehavior closer to him. No wonder he rejected the offer with frustration.
Back to your recent post (which I didn’t yet read):
“I’m not trying to be difficult here; I’m sincerely trying to have something click for me. How can I say that I have been treated unfairly from people saying I’m too sensitive and overblow situations when I actually DO overblow situations and react very sensitively to things? I guess I am thinking black and white here. If I’m the problem, I don’t feel I have the right to say I’m being mistreated or ‘deserve’ a better partner”-
– in this paragraph you responded to what I said, which was: “When people in your family who have mistreated you accuse you of being too sensitive and overblowing situations, that’s further mistreatment on their part”. Notice that I was referring to people in your family.
In the context of your recent ex, I agree that you overblew situations and overreacted (see Misbehavior above), but not in the context of your family when you were growing up. Back then situations were really bad and you reacted; you did not overreact. When family members (who are aware of how bad it was for you, particularly family members who made it bad for you) accuse you of .. (proportionally) reacting to how bad it was, it is them being insensitive at the least, abusive at the most.
“But he admitted that he was lusting after those photos and losing interest in me in the process due to that and the distance and other things he wouldn’t elaborate on“- first, it is known that when a person is harshly interrogated by the police long enough, they’d admit to crimes they are not guilty of. Secondly, he told you that the antidepressants and ADHD medications were killing his libido (his words). Thirdly, it’s not a crime to lust or feel anything at all that one is feeling and you do not have the right to persecute anyone for what they are feeling. Fourthly, one significant thing among the other things he wouldn’t elaborate on is.. the Misbehavior I am talking about.
“How do I not take that personally?… my pain feels warranted when I remember he admitted to what I was fearing over his actions“- You (your subconscious part) had a very personal agenda from the start of this relationship: to prove that you are indeed physically undesirable, and you “proved” it. You hoped for another result, but you went about it like a prosecutor (focusing on the alleged crime), not like the defense (focusing on innocence).
“It’s like I feel that I don’t have the right to say I was mistreated because I sabotaged and overblew the situation… I’m not trying to argue with you, or with any of these points. Again, I’m trying SO hard for this to click with me because I feel this is THE biggest mental block that is keeping me from moving forward“-
– When you have the time and when you are calm, following processing this post, can you define “THE biggest mental block” as it stands now?
“To answer your last question: NYE was very hard even though I worked all day. The past couple of days have been rough too from the usual rumination. I had another nightmare about him this morning. I hope your holiday was nice and you’ve had a good start to the new year!”-
– thank you. I want you to do the work needed so that next NYE will be so much better than the last. My NYE was calm enough. I used to suffer a lot and unnecessarily, because of a miserable, difficult childhood. I did- and am- doing the work and what a huge difference it has made in-between-my-ears. I want the same for you!
Like I expressed repeatedly before: I like you and I think HIGHLY of you. You are positively amazing in so many ways!
anita
January 3, 2024 at 7:31 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #426690anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
Congratulations on your new-year-new-job. Reply when it’s convenient for you!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Ben: I forgot to add that you can prepare for his visit by listening to an audio+ a day and doing other mindfulness practices every day for the next six weeks, so to prepare yourself for the visit. More.. tomorrow.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Ben:
I’ll reply more tomorrow morning (it’s Tues 5:35 pm here, U.S.), but for now:
“A long tirade ahaha“- actually, it was a pleasure (!) to read your post: you are an excellent writer in a literary sense, says I, plus your writing is so honest, so genuine, that it makes me feel affection for you. It makes me smile. I can understand why he likes and loves you.
“I paid for his flight… I feel foolish for doing so“- I think that it’s fine, not foolish, that you paid for his flight, given that he can’t pay for it.
“… He’ll be here 6 weeks… my OCD tendencies and anxiety have ganged up on me a.. it’s a wonderful party going on inside my amygdala“- the brain, particularly the amygdala, has its own habits, chemical mostly, and anxiety, OCD tendencies and such are mental habits. Like any habit, it takes effort and a plan to change.
Mindfulness is a part of modern psychotherapy that’s about changing mental habits. When I attended therapy, my daily homework was to listen to one of Mark William’s audio guided meditations. He was (maybe still is) a professor in Oxford and an expert on Mindfulness. I think that you can listen to a few of his recorded mindfulness meditations online free of charge. Listening to an audio first thing in the morning and/ or last thing at night, and anytime in between- is one way to slow down the brain, to calm it. Over time.. together with other Mindfulness Practices, you will be surprised by how well it works!
Back to you tomorrow!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Lou92:
Here is another way to think about it, if you will: not all depressed people are created equal, so to speak. Some depressed people still care for and love their supposed loved ones, and talk about things. Your husband’s depression is not a blanket explanation for his behaviors. There are other factors in play, like one’s values, or lack of.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Lou92:
You are very welcome and thank you for your kind words.
You are in a difficult situation and I feel sad that you are in this situation. I spent a few hours this morning (I am not focused though, quiet tired) trying to understand. It seems to me that while the two of you have been suffering for a long time, he has done nothing to help you, while you have done everything in your power to help him. When you tried to help yourself (he wouldn’t), his response was to not help you.
In cartoons and certain movies, the bad character appears bad all the time, evil intents, always doing wrong and enjoying it. In real-life bad people are suffering, they often look sad or pathetic, and you feel sorry for them. What’s a bad person? My definition: one who repeatedly- over a long time- hurts another, sees that the person they hurt is indeed hurting, and yet, he/ she makes no real effort to stop hurting the one they are hurting, and to try to help them instead.
For about 5-6 years, when you thought of your relationship as solid (“The first 5/6 years of our relationship were powerful and solid”), this is what happened: “I have always been the one quietly by his side, cheering him on, being there for him no matter what… I have approached him in the past with issues that needed addressing, but they were few and far between really. And yes he did still withdraw when this happened“.
At first, when you spoke up and he withdrew, at times you raised your voice, and an argument followed. As result, you regulated/ quieted down your voice: “because I hadn’t learnt how to regulate my own emotions, I would get frustrated with the stonewalling, and would raise my voice and then it would turn into an argument whereas now it doesn’t because I don’t lose my temper from it“.
When you voiced your feelings, however gently, telling him it’s not him, taking full responsibility for your feelings and going out of your way to see to it that you are not blaming him, and asking for his help, this is what happened:
“If I ever approach him with the fact I am feeling insecure and would like a bit more reassurance and love, he takes this an attack on him and emotionally shuts down… That night, before he took the dog for a walk, I had that conversation with him where I was crying, and I told him it’s not him, these are MY issues, but because I have these issues I just need some more affection from him to help me through this. He emotionally shut down, said he was going to take the dog for a walk to clear his head, and then didn’t come back… It does feel though that now I am starting to be affected by everything, and I have chosen to communicate this with him, it has caused him to withdraw. But then I can’t win because I can either openly communicate and have him withdraw, or I can keep my mouth shut and suffer in silence“.
You wrote in your post today: “Since this all came out, I’ve not been able to speak MY truth once about it. It’s like he cannot deal with whatever I will say, so I am effectively suffering in silence. As you said, I am walking on eggshells. Due to his depression and the severity of it, I am quite literally trying to ‘let go’ of how I FEEL about the whole thing, and push it to one side, so that he can focus on getting himself better”.
His withdrawing/ shutting down/ stonewalling behaviors are emotionally manipulative. Emotional manipulation is not always negative. For example, when a parent rewards a child for positive social behavior, that’s emotional manipulation, but it’s manipulation with a very positive value attached to it. Another example: when an adult thanks another adult for a good deed, part of the thank-you may be about encouraging the individual to continue to do good deeds for people in general, making the world a better place for it. Positive emotional manipulation Helps the manipulated and society at large.
Negative emotional manipulation has a negative value to it: it Hurts the manipulated and long-term, it hurts society at large. Therefore, it’s emotionally abusive. It is not something that is only done by calmly deceitful individuals, like financial scammers who thought through, planned and then calmly execute their manipulation, and if successful, their benefit is concrete. Negative emotional manipulation is often done by anxious and depressed people. It’s often more instinctual than thoughtful-and-preplanned, and when successful, the benefit is short term.
When any manipulation, positive or negative, leads to a desired outcome for the manipulator, it’s done again and again, instinctually/ automatically, if not in a planned way.
Your husband’s desired outcome seems to be: you being “quietly by his side, cheering him on, being there for him no matter what“, and if you happen to suffer, that you suffer in silence. Currently, his desired outcome has been achieved: “Since this all came out… I am effectively suffering in silence” (Jan 2, 2024).
You interpret his behavior this way: “If I ever approach him with the fact I am feeling insecure.. he takes this an attack on him and emotionally shuts down, being completely incapable of saying anything whatsoever” (original post, Dec 19). It is possible though, that his intent- while feeling attacked- is to attack you back, that he feels angry and his way to hurt you/ punish you is to stonewall you. It is possible that he is capable of talking to you, but angry, he chooses not to.
Perhaps if he cared enough about you suffering, he would be capable of addressing difficult topics.
In your recent post, you wrote: “It’s like he cannot deal with whatever I will say, so I am effectively suffering in silence.. I am quite literally trying to ‘let go’ of how I FEEL“- What if he can deal with what you have to say, but appearing like he cannot deal with it, achieves his desired outcome: not dealing with it.
cleaveland clinic. org (I am adding the boldface feature to the following quotes): “Stonewalling is way of intentionally or unintentionally, verbally or nonverbally withdrawing from a conflict. While some people stonewall on purpose to assert control or do harm, the behavior is often inadvertent… Stonewalling is a common tactic because (at least in the short term) it works. It’s a defense mechanism that stops the immediate conflict from progressing any further… stonewalling is a common tactic for people with depression… In still other cases, stonewalling is a deliberate and emotionally abusive act. A person who stonewalls on purpose is exerting control over (and often demeaning) another person”.
simply psychology. org: “Stonewalling involves withdrawing from communication and deliberately avoiding providing any information, feedback, or emotional response, effectively shutting down a conversation or interaction. This can include completely ignoring another person, physically turning away from someone, and/ or engaging in another activity to avoid interaction… if stonewalling becomes a recurring pattern, it can be a predictor of divorce. It can lead to a breakdown in communication, psychological distress, and relationship dissatisfaction…
“Stonewalling is considered a type of psychologically abusive behavior, and it often falls under the passive-aggressive category. It involves entirely shutting down emotionally during conflicts or difficult discussions, leaving the other person feeling unheard, invalidated, and worthless.”
Like I wrote at the start of this post, I am particularly tired this morning, but I hope that I made some sense in this post, did I?
anita
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