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anita
ParticipantDear Tom:
It’s great to hear from you, and I hope you’re doing well too.
I’m glad to see you’re taking proactive steps by looking into a career coach and reaching out to recruiters. Balancing your current role with self-care through fresh air, exercise, and reading sounds like a healthy approach.
Exploring self-employment and new job opportunities can provide you with valuable insights into what might be the best path forward.
If you need someone to talk to or if there’s any way I can support you during this transition, feel free to reach out. Wishing you all the best as you navigate these decisions.
Take care and stay in touch.
anita
March 1, 2025 at 3:25 pm in reply to: The phenomenon of “helping someone excessively can make them turn against you” #443320anita
ParticipantI am fine, Arden, good to read from you! How are yo??
Anita
anita
ParticipantDear Peter:
Thank you for your kind words. I’m glad my example resonated with you and helped illustrate the concept. The “infinite loop divided by 0” is such an apt metaphor for the trap we fall into with compounded negative emotions.
Your reference to Buddha’s concept of Maya is deeply insightful. It does seem like one of the ways we create our own illusions and suffering. Recognizing these patterns is the first step toward breaking free from them.
I appreciate your reflections and the wisdom you bring to our conversations.
anita
anita
ParticipantDear Peter:
I want to share something with you this Friday morning that’s closely related to the topic of “Feeling bad about feeling bad about feeling bad,” specifically the progression from Primary Emotion to Secondary Emotion to Tertiary Emotion:
Last night, I became emotional and shared with someone about my childhood experience with my mother—a memory I’ve mentioned in the forums several times. In this memory, two adult women were holding her back as she struggled to break free, intending to murder me (her word, “murder”). I expressed anger, a primary emotion, along with sadness for the girl I was and fear of my mother once the two adults left, leaving me alone with the mother-monster. It was a smooth expression of emotions and thoughts.
This morning, I woke up and remembered last night. Something strange hit me: I didn’t feel embarrassment or shame (secondary emotions), nor did I feel self-doubt, like I was making it up or exaggerating, nor did I feel guilt for portraying my mother negatively (tertiary emotions).
However, as I typed the word “monster” above, I did feel guilt for referring to her as a monster, thinking of times she wasn’t one. I erased the word, then thought to myself that in that specific memory, she really was a monster, so I retyped the word.
I can now see how damaging secondary and tertiary emotions are when it comes to processing and healing from traumatic past experiences. Without these extra emotions, the primary emotion of anger regarding the memory stands alone—seen, recognized, felt, valid, uninterrupted, and unmasked by the extra emotions.
My anger finally stands on its own: I feel angry. I am no longer Feeling-confused-about-feeling-guilty-about-feeling-angry. The memory of the event is different now than it has been for half a century. It is no longer shrouded in a fog of emotions that don’t belong with the memory. Now, only the emotions that truly belong are present: fear, anger, shock, hurt, and empathy for the little girl that I was.
This development wouldn’t have happened without your words yesterday, “Feeling bad about feeling bad about feeling bad.” Thank you, Peter.
anita
anita
ParticipantDear Drew:
You’re very welcome! I’m glad to read that you found my reply comprehensive and helpful. It’s great that you have a plan of approach and are ready to go back to your GP’s practice. I understand that the initial dismissal was frustrating, but it’s encouraging to read that you usually have good experiences with them.
With a well-thought-out strategy, I’m hopeful they’ll consider investigating further this time. If you ever need additional support or have more questions along the way, don’t hesitate to reach out.
Best of luck with everything, and take care! Bye for now,
anita
anita
ParticipantDear Peter:
Compassionate action involves taking actions driven by empathy, kindness, and genuine concern for the well-being of others. It means recognizing the suffering of others and responding in ways that aim to alleviate that suffering, promote well-being, and foster a sense of connection and support.
“That the individual ‘awakening’ might then influence the whole. I know that as a possibility but also a trap that if it becomes an intention or desire itself will create suffering,”- This highlights the delicate balance between accepting reality as it is and hoping for a better reality. It’s about avoiding the pitfalls of despair on one hand and denial on the other.
“I don’t feel ‘bad’ about feeling ‘bad’ about current happenings. A step forward as that has been an old trap I often fell into – Feeling bad about feeling bad about feeling bad…”-
Primary Emotion (feeling bad): The initial, immediate emotional response to a situation or event. This could include sadness, frustration, anger, or any other negative emotion.
Secondary Emotion (feeling bad about feeling bad): For example, feeling guilty about feeling angry or feeling embarrassed about feeling sad. The secondary emotion adds another layer of distress on top of the original, primary negative feeling.
Tertiary Emotion (feeling bad about feeling bad about feeling bad): Experiencing yet another, third layer of emotional response. For instance, feeling angry with oneself for feeling guilty about feeling angry. This creates a cycle of compounded negative emotions, making it harder to cope with the original issue. Overthinking amplifies this process, giving us more opportunities to judge ourselves and add layers of negative emotions.
The significant step forward you describe is your ability to break this cycle of compounded negative emotions. By accepting your initial, primary negative emotions without judging yourself for feeling them, you prevent the addition of further layers of distress. This acceptance builds resilience.
Thank you for liking my poem!
anita
anita
ParticipantDear Drew:
After submitting my last post to you, I realized that I focused primarily on the unintentional vocalization of your thoughts and neglected the second part of your post. Based on what you shared about your lifelong struggle with controlling your responses, there are potential conditions that might be relevant. While only a qualified healthcare professional can provide a definitive diagnosis, here are some conditions you might consider:
Impulse Control Disorders (ICDs): These are mental health conditions characterized by difficulties in controlling impulses and behaviors that can cause harm to oneself or others. These disorders often involve actions that are aggressive, destructive, or socially inappropriate. Here are two types that might be relevant:
Intermittent Explosive Disorder (IED): This involves sudden episodes of unwarranted anger and aggression. Individuals with IED may have outbursts that are disproportionate to the situation.
Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD): Although more common in children, ODD can persist into adulthood. It involves a pattern of uncooperative, defiant, and hostile behavior toward authority figures.
Your thread title, “SELF CONTROL,” aligns with the challenges posed by impulse control disorders. You mentioned reacting impulsively to situations in ways you regret, which fits well with characteristics of these disorders. Your desire to respond in a controlled and deliberate manner indicates self-awareness and a wish for better impulse control.
Towards the end of your post, you wrote:
“What I WANT to do in all such situations is be fully aware of what’s going on, be fully aware of what I’m doing, and RESPOND in a deliberate, controlled, assertive way; and ideally be calm too. Have any of you managed this? If so, how? If not – PLEASE DON’T RESPOND!”-
Your use of uppercase letters and strong language indicates intense emotional responses, which align with IED. People with IED often experience sudden outbursts of anger and frustration. Your frustration with not being able to control your responses reflects a key aspect of IED, where individuals wish for better control over their impulses and reactions.
Your emphatic instruction to not receive unsolicited advice (“PLEASE DON’T RESPOND!”) and your frustration with well-meaning people fit the defiant and oppositional behavior seen in ODD.
While your posts exhibit behaviors and feelings that may align with these disorders, it’s essential to remember that a comprehensive evaluation by a mental health professional is necessary for an accurate diagnosis. Your unique symptoms and experiences need to be assessed in the context of your overall mental health and history.
Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a recommended treatment for impulse control disorders. It starts with a comprehensive assessment to understand your specific symptoms, triggers, and the situations in which you struggle the most. Together, you and your therapist would set clear, achievable goals for therapy, which might include learning to control your vocalizations and managing your impulsive reactions.
CBT involves cognitive restructuring, which helps identify and challenge negative or irrational thoughts contributing to impulsive behaviors. For example, if you think, “I can’t control myself,” a therapist would help you reframe this thought to something more positive and empowering, like “I can learn strategies to manage my impulses.”
Skills training is also a key component of CBT, where you can learn specific skills to help control your impulses and vocalizations. This includes developing strategies to handle difficult situations more effectively, allowing you to respond rather than react.
I suffered from impulse control issues myself and had CBT therapy for two years (2011-13), achieving great success with impulse control, and will gladly share more about it with you, if you are interested.
You’re not alone in this journey, Drew, and I believe in your strength to overcome these challenges.
anita
anita
ParticipantDear Peter:
Yesterday, I considered discussing politics with you, but I decided against it. Even if you’re interested (and I should ask you first), it’s probably not the best idea given that this is a public forum.
It’s understandable to feel overwhelmed by anxiety and hopelessness, especially when it is difficult to distinguish between your own feelings and those you absorb from others. This heightened sensitivity can be, in different contexts, a gift or a curse.
Witnessing unkindness, particularly from those close to us, can be deeply disheartening. It’s important to remember that while we can’t control others’ actions, we can control our responses and strive to create a more compassionate and empathetic environment in our own lives.
Kierkegaard’s quote resonates with the idea of longing for a future that feels out of reach. It’s a powerful reminder of the pain that can come from unmet expectations and dreams.
Langston Hughes: “What happens to a dream deferred? Does it dry up like a raisin in the sun? Or fester like a sore—And then run?”
Oscar Wilde: “The tragedy of old age is not that one is old, but that one is young.”
F. Scott Fitzgerald: “So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”
A little poem for you, Peter:
Regret may linger, shadows of past,
But strength lies within, steadfast and vast.
For every setback, a chance to rise,
A beacon of hope, in tearful eyes.The whispers of dreams, they never cease,
In moments of quiet, find your peace.
Though paths may twist, and storms may rage,
Your story unfolds, on life’s grand stage.Each step a story newly told,
In dreams unmet, a spirit bold.anita
anita
ParticipantDear Drew (or do you prefer DREW?):
Thank you for your thoughtful response and for sharing more about your situation. I understand that finding the right diagnosis and treatment can be challenging, especially with the added difficulty of accessing specialists and not being able to afford private treatment.
“I dismissed Tourette’s outright as I believed it’s always congenital, but if you’re right that it can be brought on throughout life, and even triggered by some medicines, then that fits with my suspicion that my involuntary vocalizations may have been caused by the pill I was taking when mine started.”
Tourette Syndrome (TS) is generally considered congenital, meaning it is present from birth and often manifests in early childhood, with the average onset occurring between the ages of 5 and 7 years old. It is strongly influenced by genetic factors, and it often runs in families.
While rare, there are documented cases of TS developing in adulthood. These cases may be triggered by factors such as stress, neurological injuries, infections, or certain medications.
“I don’t know about other tic disorders though – I’d need to research that.”
Tic disorders that include involuntary vocalizations, such as voicing thoughts out loud, include the following:
Tourette Syndrome (TS): Multiple motor tics and at least one vocal tic present for more than one year.
Persistent (Chronic) Motor or Vocal Tic Disorder: Either motor tics or vocal tics (but not both) present for more than one year.
Provisional Tic Disorder: Motor and/or vocal tics present for at least four weeks but less than one year.
Other Specified Tic Disorder: Tics that do not meet the criteria for the above disorders but still cause significant distress or impairment. The duration and presentation can vary.
Unspecified Tic Disorder: Tics present, but there is not enough information to make a more specific diagnosis. The duration varies.
Medication-induced tics are not classified as a separate tic disorder. Instead, they are considered a type of movement disorder caused by the side effects of certain medications. These tics can resemble those seen in tic disorders but are specifically triggered by medication use.
“I also don’t recognize the medicines you list, but perhaps mine is a culprit.”
The medications I mentioned, which can lead to the development of tics as a side effect, have different brand names. Here are some examples:
Methylphenidate: Ritalin, Concerta, Equasym XL, Medikinet, and Delmosart.
Dextroamphetamine: Dexedrine, Amfexa.
Haloperidol: Haldol, Serenace.
Risperidone: Risperdal, Consta.
There are several other medications that can result in tics or tic-like symptoms. These include medications that treat psychiatric symptoms, nausea and other gastroenterological issues (examples: Metoclopramide, promethazine, prochlorperazine, levosulpiride), allergies (examples: Hydroxyzine, promethazine), and antiepileptics.
“I have wondered about ADHD but only regarding impulse control: I’d never heard of it linked to vocalizing thoughts. But I thought that unlikely as I generally don’t have trouble concentrating; certainly not to the extent that I’ve heard described as typical for ADHD.”
It is possible to be diagnosed with ADHD even if not all of the symptoms apply. ADHD is a spectrum disorder, and different individuals present different combinations of symptoms with differing severity, often without all the listed symptoms being present.
If there’s anything more I can do to support you or if you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out. Wishing you all the best. Take care and stay strong 💪!
anita
anita
ParticipantDear n20:
Thank you for coming back and sharing this update!
On June 30, 2024, you shared that you struggled with anxiety your entire life, which had significantly worsened over the past year, leading to your first experience with depression and a diagnosis of OCD. Despite feeling overwhelmed by the persistent nature of your mental health issues, you held onto hope for improvement and sought support from others with similar experiences while working on self-compassion and living in the moment.
Fast forward almost 8 months, and it’s lovely to see your photos and stories of world travel. You look wonderful, and your positive energy truly shines through!
In “Lesson Learned,” you recounted your harrowing journey of seeking validation and help for your worsening health issues. You advocated for yourself and underwent extensive medical testing, which eventually revealed lesions on your brain indicative of multiple sclerosis (MS). Further testing results were negative for MS, and you did not share a definitive diagnosis regarding the cause of the lesions, as far as I can tell.
You shared your story to provide hope to others who might be struggling, emphasizing that it is possible to feel better and emerge stronger from immense suffering. You reflected on how accepting your emotions, including suicidal thoughts, helped you move through the pain. Now, you have new ambitions, including pursuing a PhD program and reconnecting with family. You expressed gratitude for the experience, despite its challenges, as it has profoundly changed your life and provided you with valuable insights. You now understand the significance of happiness and suffering and can look back at this time for strength in future hardships.
It’s inspiring, n20, to read how far you have come despite facing serious health issues affecting your brain. Your strength and resilience are truly admirable, and I’m so glad to read that you’re finally getting the help you need.
Your journey is a powerful reminder that there is hope, even in the most challenging times. It’s heartening to know that you’re proud of your progress, and it’s uplifting for others who might be going through similar struggles.
Your story will undoubtedly provide hope and encouragement to anyone reading it. Thank you for being brave enough to share your experience and for offering a beacon of hope to others.
Wishing you continued strength, healing, and positivity on your journey.
anita
anita
ParticipantDear Drew: You are welcome and no worries about when you respond. I want to thoroughly read and reply to you Wed morning (it’s Tues afternoon here).
anita
anita
ParticipantDear Peter:
I want to reply further when I am more focused Wed morning.
anita
anita
ParticipantDear Zenith:
And how are you feeling about it, about the manager talking you out of applying to the internal job and about you changing your mind about it?
anita
anita
ParticipantDear Peter:
I understand about the news these days being overwhelming and concerning. During these challenging times, it’s important to take care of yourself and find moments of peace amidst the chaos. Your well-being is important, and taking care of yourself will help you stay resilient.
anita
anita
ParticipantDear Aj:
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I’m glad to read that you’ve started recognizing the patterns of reassurance-seeking and how it affects you. This awareness is an important step towards managing your OCD.
It’s great that you’ve taken your sister’s advice to give into the uncertainty and stop your compulsions, even if it’s challenging, and that you deleted the internet for now and feel better for it. The “Maybe, maybe not” technique can be difficult at first, but it’s encouraging to read that you’re starting to feel clearer-minded.
Remember, you’re not alone in this journey. Seeking professional support from a therapist who specializes in OCD can provide you with the tools and strategies to manage these thoughts effectively.
Wishing you strength and clarity as you navigate these challenges.
anita
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