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End off the Road!!

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  • #389052
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Javier,

    I am happy to hear from you. And I want to let you know that I am here, rooting for you.

    The saddest part is that I need and want help, but my mind won’t let me.

    As both Peter and Sarah said, our mind is often our enemy, telling us lies, distorting things, even giving us distorted images. It happened to me once, when I tried to meditate on Jesus, all I got was some distorted images coming from my subconscious or I don’t know where from. I was desperate.

    What helped me was to call Jesus into my heart. I told him to please circumvent my mind, because my mind is polluted, and come into my heart. I begged him because I couldn’t bear living without love any more. I was desperate. And he did – I felt warmth descending into the upper part of my body, into my heart, and I felt loved. It changed my entire life. It gave me hope.

    You may try something similar, Javier. Ask Jesus or Mother Mary to circumvent your mind and come to your heart, so you can feel their love.

     

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Tee.
    #389054
    Javier
    Participant

    Thank you Peter,

    You are spot-on, I have never been able to still my mind and feel some calmness and clarity. I have been going through most of my adult life with the prenotion that stillness is my worst enemy. I was a champion, and are still running and dodging thoughts and feelings. But when they, quite often lately, finally catch up, they paralyze me. But sometimes, when I’m lucky, I can go completely numb and be apathetic. Maybe the saying is right, you need pain and dark days to appreciate life to the fullest.

     

    #389062
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Jarier

    The challenge of the practice of stillness is to remain engaged with life as it is, detached to ones thoughts and feelings (you are not your thoughts or your feelings you have thoughts and feelings) but not indifferent or apathetic to the thoughts, feelings, experiences you have.

     Maybe the saying is right, you need pain and dark days to appreciate life to the fullest.

    I might say we need the tension of opposites to become conscious of our experiences.  The appreciation is that we Get To notice and Be  The appreciation of the bitter and the sweet does open one up to all the flavors… but I will still avoid the overly sweet and the overly bitter as I learn better 🙂

    I find it helpful to know others have similar struggles and how each road though different is also the same.  I know that sounds odd but I enjoy a good paradox. They  provide my thoughts room to play so that I might not attach myself to them.

    Some times I imagine my mind or thoughts (its difficult to separate the idea of mind and thought.) as a pet dog. I walk down a street or in a trail and watch as the dog  sniffs every tree, run about, checking out everything and then I call it back to heal. To quietly walk beside me.  Their is a time to allow one thoughts to roam about and play, to leap and engage… and a time to heal and walk quietly.

    Other times as I walk I imagine my self as a wheel and moving the point of which I view the experience from different parts of the wheel. As a point on the outer circumference. One moment I’m rushing forward the next the falling towards the ground, the next  everything is passing, the next I’m looking up towards the sky.  A bit of a roller-coaster feeling. From that perspective its understandable that I  might feel overwhelmed.  Everything either rushing towards me or a way from me. Flying towards the sky or falling towards the ground.

    Then I imagine the point of focus moving down one of the wheels spokes. Its scary because as I move down everything appears to be happing even faster. Closer to the ground and further from the sky, everything happening with less and less time to notice and respond to the moment. Everything even more overwhelming and scary. I want to retreat back to the top of the wheel, to what I ‘know’… But if I keep move toward the center of the wheel a strange thing happens.  The wheel has never changed speed yet from this center point everything becomes ‘still’. The up the down the future and the past viewed all together in the moment. Nothing has changed yet everything has changed.  Nothing rushing away, nothing rushing towards me. This is the still point of the turning world. A point from which I can respond (dance) to the moment as it is.

    At the still point of the turning world. Neither flesh nor fleshless;
    Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,
    But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity,
    Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards,
    Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point,
    There would be no dance, and there is only the dance.” – TS Eliot

    At the still point their is the dance… I enjoy a good paradox. They provide my thoughts room to play so that I might not attach myself to them….

    #389081
    Javier
    Participant

    Sarah and TeaK Thank you,

    You have always been here for me. Your support, love and kindness have kept me alive. I’m happy to have you in my life.

    #389082
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Javier,

    you are very welcome. I am glad too that I got to communicate with you, you are a very kind and caring person, and you deserve all the love and happiness in the world. I hope and pray that little by little, things will get better in your life. <3

    #389377
    Javier
    Participant

    I just wonder, have any of you felt any profound vacuum inside? The feeling of nothingness, hopelessness and utter numbness?

    I have struggled with this intense chronic emptiness since I was a kid. I don’t how to cope with it, how to heal it and how to live with it. I always thought depression was the cause, but it feels more and more like depression is a symptom of emptiness.

    I feel disconnected from reality, my feelings and my thoughts, and sometimes it feels like I’m completely disconnected from my soul. Nothing makes sense, and the lack of meaning and purpose is intense.

    Have you felt like this? And how to do live with it?

     

    #389385
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Javier:

    In your thread, beginning May 8, 2021, you shared the following: at about May 2020, at the age of 41, you lost your job. Following the loss of your job, you lost your car and apartment. Having had no income, in about January 2021 (at the age of 42), you moved back into your mother’s apartment, same apartment where you grew up. Five months later, in June 2021, your mother moved out of the apartment to live with your brother and his family, and since then, you’ve been living in your mother’s apartment alone, unemployed, socially isolated and unwell, in and out of a psych ward.

    You shared that during the 7 months of your posting here, you were offered all kinds of therapies and medications by the professionals whom you came in contact with, but none helped you.

    Today, Dec 4, 2021, you are as unwell as you were when you first posted, May 8, earlier this year.

    Here is what you shared regarding your experience of Emptiness (the italicized feature is my addition), May 2021: “I’m depressed all the time, and feel empty and lost… To be honest, I really don’t have any friends or any acquaintances I feel comfortable opening up to. Maybe, that’s why I use the forum… I lack the feeling of belonging; I feel isolated and cut off from the rest of the world… how to cope with my emptiness… Even in the company of family members, I experience feelings of loneliness”.

    August 2021: “My mother and my family have all left me… I have this recurring nightmare, where I’m left alone in the ocean, drowning, all alone, no family, no friends, just me… I’m empty, completely empty inside“. September 2021: “still feel lost, empty…  My emptiness…  I’m dead inside and completely emptyThe emptiness will never disappear or go away, which I know for sure”. October 2021: “I’ve always felt empty, depressed and useless. I felt empty when I was 6, in my teens, in my 20s-30s and 40s. And I’m afraid I’ll be feeling the same until my last breath”. Today, December 4, 2021: “I just wonder, have any of you felt any profound vacuum inside?… I have struggled with this intense chronic emptiness since I was a kid… it feels more and more like depression is a symptom of emptiness”.

    You wrote in May: “I’m afraid I have… severe borderline personality disorder“- the feeling of Emptiness is indeed a hallmark of borderline personality disorder (BPD). Because you brought up BPD, and because I suffered from bpd (and therefore Emptiness) since late teenage years, having been diagnosed with BPD later in life: in early 2011, and no longer fitting the diagnosis- I want to look into the connection between your suggested diagnosis and your chronic feelings of Emptiness, that “profound vacuum inside”.

    There is National Library of Medicine study available online (pub med. ncbi. nlm. nih. org) with the title: Understanding chronic feelings of emptiness in borderline personality disorder. Under Abstract, it reads: “Chronic feelings of emptiness are significant in the lives of people with… BPD. Feelings of emptiness have been linked to impulsivity, self-harm, suicidal behaviour and impaired psychosocial function… Chronic feelings of emptiness were experienced as a feeling of disconnection from both self and others, and a sense of numbness and nothingness which was frequent and reduced functional capacity. Feelings of purposelessness and unfulfillment were closely associated with emptiness, and most participants experienced emptiness as distressing… Most participants distinguished chronic feelings of emptiness from loneliness, hopelessness, dissociation, and depression“-

    – so far it perfectly fits what you shared in your thread, including your stated distinction between emptiness and depression: “it feels more and more like depression is a symptom of emptiness“, Dec 4.

    You mentioned chronic emptiness in your post today (“I have struggled with this intense chronic emptiness since I was a kid“). Back to the study, in Conclusions, it states: “Feelings of chronic emptiness are an important and challenging symptom of BPD which require clinical intervention. Strengthening identity, sense of purpose and vocational and relationship functioning may reduce the intensity of emptiness”.

    In articles listed under “related articles” following the conclusions portion, it reads in part: “Chronic feelings of emptiness is an under-researched symptom of borderline personality disorder (BPD)… chronic emptiness is a sense of disconnection from both self and others. When experienced at frequent and severe levels, it is associated with low remission for people with BPD… Chronic emptiness may be related to depressive experiences unique to people with BPD, and was associated with self-harm, suicidality, and lower social and vocational function… We conclude that understanding chronic feelings of emptiness is central to the experience of people with BPD and treatment focusing on connecting with self and others may help alleviate a sense of emptiness. Further research is required to provide a better understanding of the nature of chronic emptiness in BPD in order to develop ways to quantify the experience and target treatment…. Results indicate that emptiness is negligibly related to boredom, is closely related to feeling hopeless, lonely, and isolated, and is a robust predictor of depression and suicidal ideation”.

    And now, what all this means to me and my personal experience: Emptiness for me was beyond loneliness and depression, it was about the extremely distressing emotional experience of having no one to hold on to, and I don’t mean anyone out there to hold on to, but no one within myself to hold on to. And so, no one to hold on to within or without, I was frequently drowning. It makes me think of what you shared back in August: “I have this recurring nightmare, where I’m left alone in the ocean, drowning, all alone“.

    This is the unique experience of bpd: often drowning, no one to hold on to, no one to depend on without and within. And so, the feeling of being alone is extreme, and the desperation is extreme. An extremely desperate person will latch onto ANYTHING, and FAST! Hence impulsive behaviors and suicidal ideation. The Emptiness of bpd has an urgent, emergency quality to it that doesn’t characterize depression and loneliness outside the bpd experience.

    You shared a few things about your childhood that are perfectly true to my childhood: “The biggest fear, that has followed me… the fear of losing my mother. I dread the day it will happen… I love my mother more than anything in the world… I have always felt responsible for ruining my mother´s life… I just want to see her happy… I feel isolated and cut off from the rest of the world” (May 2021).

    You shared May 9: “when I die, I’ll be gone and forgotten…  I feel like my life just passed before my eyes, so quickly, without me“- through all the years of my bpd experience, I was gone and forgotten within my own mind/ within my own awareness, and my life passed before my eyes without me in it. It is the sense of the lack of a me/ the lack of a personal identity, that has been so very distressing, creating frequent urgencies and emergencies.

    You wrote, still in May: “I have to realize that there will be no one at my deathbed. I have to realize that I will be alone, miserable, and forgotten. I wish I could go back in time and change things“- Now, that I don’t fit the diagnosis anymore, now that I get to experience regular depression, but not the Emptiness, I know that when I die, there will be Someone at my deathbed: Me!

    I did go back in time, through the process of healing, and picked up that lost and forgotten child that I was. I brought her back to me/ back to my awareness. Having her back with me, I am no longer alone and lonely and disconnected and confused and troubled and impulsive and desperate. My life doesn’t have that I-am-about-to-drown-any-moment-now quality to it, not anymore.

    anita

     

    #389395
    Javier
    Participant

    Thank You Anita!

    This just blew my mind and makes me understand a bit more about my emptiness.

    The detachment from myself and my soul is an indescribable feeling. It gives me some kind of hope, and a feeling of relief to hear that there is some healing. And, that I can, maybe, live a less painful life, without feeling extreme numbness and uselessness.

    The mornings are the worse for me, every morning I have to “fight” for survival. I have to fight for my life, to find a motivation to get out of my bed, to just live. Did you struggle in the mornings? If so, how are your mornings now?

    Do you feel any kind of numbness and hopelessness? And how do you feel when you think back to the days of emptiness? Do you feel that you “wasted” time for no reason, or have you just accepted that as part of the “healing process”?

    I’m ever so grateful for your post. Once again Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

    #389379
    SSS
    Participant

    Hi, Javier….

    I have a reason for asking the following:

    What do you want?

    What/how do you want to feel?

    Do you want things to be…different?

    Would you accept or embrace change?

    Hugs to you, Javier. Big, warm hugs.

    #389412
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Javier:

    You are very welcome.

    The mornings are the worse for me… Did you struggle in the mornings? If so, how are your mornings now?“- for me, mornings were always the better part of the day, and afternoons and evenings often difficult. I still prefer the mornings but when I get to socialize with people I enjoy in the afternoons- I enjoy the afternoons and look forward to them.

    Do you feel any kind of numbness and hopelessness?“- some, in regard to hopeless situations like climate change and my own aging, but not acutely, not intensely like before, not in that urgent, the-world-is-ending-right-here-and-now-someone-help-me-now!!! kind of way.

    And how do you feel when you think back to the days of emptiness? Do you feel that you ‘wasted’ time for no reason, or have you just accepted that as part of the ‘healing process’?“- looking back, I’ve been painfully aware all along that I wasted a whole lot of time and a whole lot of life that I didn’t get to live. I was full of regrets and torment.

    I used to think that of my peers (people about my age), I was the only one wasting so much, the only miserable one, the unfortunate exception to the rule, and so I was disconnected from other people, not feeling like one of them and I was alone and lonely.

    Fast forward, I know that I am not an abnormal case, that Wasting time and resources is (unfortunately) the Norm in human life, and that I am therefore not different from other people. I feel that we people are all in the same boat. This makes me feel empathy for other people (instead of anger at them and at the unfairness of being the exception). I feel connected to other people, no longer disconnected and alienated. It is the genuine, honest connection itself with other people that makes for better mental health.

    anita

    #389539
    Javier
    Participant

    Dear SSS,

    Sorry for the late reply. Thank you for your love and caring. I have tried to answer your questions.

    What do you want? I want inner peace, a life with fewer regrets. I want to forgive myself for all the hurting and pain I have given everyone. I want to ask for forgiveness from my unborn child. I want to forgive my ex-girlfriend that committed suicide. I want to live my life carefree and with some joy. I don’t want to live in my past, I want bygones to be bygones.

    What/how do you want to feel? I want to be happy or at least just feel alive. I just exist at the moment, just empty, just breathing. I want to stop comparing myself to others, stop hating myself, stop wishing I was dead.

    Do you want things to be…different? I just want things to be “normal”, I want a family and I want to be loved. I wish I had some friends and people around me that cared and loved me.

    Would you accept or embrace change? I want changes but I’m at the time scared of changes.

    #389552
    SSS
    Participant

    (I need to confess upfront that largely due to length of this thread I will have forgotten previous details provided. I’ll let myself off the hook–ahem–by claiming this affords me a clean perspective on your reply to me.)

    How old are you–you don’t have to answer this if you don’t want to.

    In your replies to my questions you have mostly described what most others want, search for, work toward. Most of us struggle to achieve any one of these things. And along the way, obstacles are thrown in our paths (not a bad thing), and some by our own creation. Anything that keeps us from being where we want, or think we should be, we see as an obstacle, and when the sum of those obstacles turn into one gigantic, overwhelming wound, we feel paralyzed. But we aren’t….

    When we can identify our mistakes, admit the hurt we’ve caused others and the hurt others have caused us, when we can put a label on our emotions, and then be able to declare what we want, that’s huge. Huge. This is a bridge. I’ll say the following with love and from personal experience: In the absence of mental health issues, we cross that bridge by getting out of our own way.

    You talk about bygones. Bygones can’t be bygones when our mind lives in the past. To get the life you describe, even parts of it, you have to think forward to move forward. There are practices that can act as a tool–not a be-all-end-all solution–to shift our thoughts and perspective. For instance, when you have a strong moment of self-hate, STOP, and remember something kind or compassionate or loving you did, or remember something you overcame. You’re working toward something here. Self-love. You can’t change the past, obviously, but what if you changed a moment? Then another. And another. And what if you purposely did something that helped someone else, some little thing? I am an ardent believer of two things: 1) We best help ourselves when we help others; 2) We have to step outside ourselves. Well, three things: 3) Sometimes it’s just a matter of getting out of our own way.

    How long ago did your ex-GF die, and how do you think your grieving process went?

    Why do you think you need forgiveness from your unborn child? Right here might be an example of creating a problem that doesn’t exist. You don’t have the opportunity (!) to make a positive impact?

    You say you want a carefree life. That doesn’t exist. Set reasonable expectations or, of course, there’ll be disappointment…which will deepen what you are feeling.

    Set small goals that don’t require too much of you. Remember we all have to take baby steps when things just get too damn heavy. Maybe it’s nothing more than forcing yourself to go the grocery store b/c you’ve been putting it off, and then maybe you just smile at someone and get one back, or seize an opportunity to lightly/jokingly engage in a conversation with a shopper who’s complaining about the price of milk. Do anything but don’t do nothing.

    Inner peace, as you say, begins with you. There are ways to facilitate that, but it doesn’t happen overnight. WHAT SPEAKS TO YOUR SOUL? This, I believe, you need to first answer. Let’s say nature stirs something deep within you. I’d start there. Whenever the past or negative feelings come up, STOP, shift the paradigm…and be present with the very thing that speaks to you—-that’s right in front of you.

    When we feel empty…initially, it’s a void…but a time comes when it’s a chance to re-fill ourselves. The reasonable things you want now have a space inside to get seeded, nurtured, and grow. I’ve never been able to overcome emptiness without putting one foot in front of the other, even if I don’t want to, even if I don’t know where that step is taking me. But eventually, inevitably, it gets me somewhere. Inertia…it exemplifies our sadness, anxiety, self-hate, whatever is holding us down, back. (Again, minus mental health issues.)

    You say you are scared of change. I know you understand that what you want can’t happen without it–something has to happen even if you do nothing, so be active in the narrative–it’s your life, don’t be passive. This moment of your life has produced an awareness in you, and that itself was change. Kudos to you. You may not like how it came about but it did, and that’s a good thing. Facing our fears gives us freedom. It’s an incredible feeling. It also helps soothe that savage self-hate beast. That beast doesn’t want us to be active in our own life; it likes being the boss. We have to show the beast that we are in charge now. The beast will fight–it’s liked its life and has lived in your cavern a long time. Taking an active role in your own life takes power from the beast. You know the path you no longer want…so start walking. The hurt you’ve given others, that person wouldn’t do those things now, correct? Baby-step forward with that new self-awareness. (I can’t tell you how important I think it is when we realize our mistakes. It opens up so much for us, and those around us.)

    Those still in your life that you’ve hurt, have you been able to show them how sorry you are for past behaviors?

    Forgiving ourselves isn’t easy but not impossible. It’s a process. It requires work, just like anything we want or need to change in ourselves. You have this incredible opportunity right now. You see it from your perspective, of course. You don’t see this as a time of transition————-and often we have to sit it out for a while in this state of limbo in order to fully grasp where we presently find ourselves and what put us there.

    I like the word STOP. It’s done me well in the past, and even now. STOP and give yourself a moment to shift the paradigm, break the pattern, discipline the beast, and take back your power. It takes practice, like most things. Taking things moment by moment can build momentum.

    Question: What’s your list of things you are presently grateful for?

    About four years ago I had another set of life-altering events. I can’t say that I didn’t have some support along the way, but it’s not an exaggeration to say that I mostly went it alone. My choice. I’ve no doubt that my past–especially the bad or unpleasant parts–played a huge role in how I was able to do that. I took an active role in my own life. My steps weren’t certain, by no means. I didn’t know how I’d end up. But I knew I wanted to end up on the other side of the bridge in a good place. I worked for it. I’ll share what an old friend said to me about one of the approaches I took: “You’re running headlong into things people run away from.” All the parts of my past, especially the suffering, made that possible.

    You know the saying you can’t know/feel/appreciate joy without knowing sorrow? I’d like to know what you think about that.

    I must close here for now….

     

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by SSS.
    #390278
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Javier,

    how have you been doing? I am thinking of you and hoping that you are having pleasant holidays!

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by Tee.
    #390664
    Javier
    Participant

    Dear SSS,

    Happy New Year, and apologies for the late reply.

    Due to my OD, I’m struggling with neurological complications, and my left arm is paralyzed.

    I’m turning 43 this year. I agree, I need to let bygones be bygones. I’m trying ACT therapy to effectively handle those negative feelings. But I get easily caught up in a conceptualized past and future, I dwell on painful memories and ruminate over my past. I’m stuck with unpleasant memories of rejection, disappointment, and failures. I worry about things that haven’t yet happened and focus negatively on all the things I have to do next. And in the process, I miss out on life.

    My mind reminds me daily-That I’m useless, unloveable, I have no self-awareness and have no self-esteem. I’m a joke and so is my life. Every morning, as I wake up, I’m reminded of this.

    I’m afraid of ageing and afraid of changes. Usually, people, while ageing, become wiser, stronger, and less stressed. In my case, it’s the opposite. I’m getting weaker and weaker with time.

    I don’t know why, but the feeling of time-passing is un-describable. I get the sense that time puts more distance between me and my love-ones, especially my deceased loved ones with every year that goes by.

    #390665
    Javier
    Participant

    Dear TeaK,

    Happy New Year,

    I’m in survival mode, just living day by day. Thank you for your love and concern,

     

     

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