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anita

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  • in reply to: Should we Separate?!? #435094
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Dave:

    Another update, 2 months and 10 days since the last one, and almost 1.5 years since your very first post (Jan 24, 2023). Good to read from you again!

    After 14 years of marriage and three kids (2 preteens and a 3-year-old),  back in Jan 2023,  the relationship with your wife was unhappy and you were sleeping on the sofa. She told you that the two of you are “just too different”, that she “feels trapped“, and she complained that you were “lazy, sarcastic, unmotivated and show a general lack of initiative“. On Feb 7, 2023, the two of you attended your 1st couples counseling session. It was a good session and the morning after (you still sleeping on the sofa), she wanted to cuddle with you, and you felt somewhat optimistic. On Feb 14, 2023, the two of you had your 2nd couple counseling session where your wife complained that you were “negative, defensive and letting her lead on everything“, that you were “constantly around as opposed to having our own things going on“. You complained about the lack of intimacy, and you shared that you were “in a constant state of feeling out of control and emotional about our situation“, not knowing if “she either wants to try and work with me or make a decision to part ways”.

    Four months later, on June 15, 2023, you posted a 4-month update: in early March 2023, while still living in the same house with your wife, you stayed the night at a friend’s house following having had too much to drink, and you lied to your wife about where you stayed that night. She found out, and “coupled with the fact she thinks we have nothing in common… and effectively (I) behave like a 4th child in the house – this is all too much for her, and she wants to end the relationship“. Following that early March incident and confrontation, the two of you were “separated and living apart amicably“.

    On June 19, 2023, you shared: “The main problem is she no longer trusts or respects me, and for that reason cannot see a future in our relationship“.

    On July 3rd, 2023, you shared that when living with her, you felt that she was your superior: “I have been pretending that I am her equal when mentally I still feel inferior and I need to dig into that“. You believed at the time that “moving into my own place and setting up a separate life… I feel I will start to  work out more who I am and what I want…  I have to discover the real me…  to be at peace with who I am and what I stand for“. You were about to start individual counseling at the time and “embrace a voyage of self discovery“.

    Five months later, on Dec 4, 2023, you posted another update: a couple of months or so after moving out, the two of you “enjoyed some time in the bedroom, but it felt like that’s all it was, just a physical thing“.  At the 6-months separation point, you shared: “Nothing has really changed on the relationship front, we are still very amicable and text most days but very surface level and transactional“, and you were considering meeting someone new: “At the end of the day I could continue to wait around for her to change her mind which doesn’t seem likely or I can try and get myself back out there”.

    More than 4 months later, on April 25, 2024, you shared that you met a woman from Ireland: “Not a lot has changed… I met a girl who gets me and seems really keen to be with me whilst understanding my complex situation… I feel happier and have spent so much time focusing on myself and my mental health. I run now about 40-70km a week which I have never done, I go to the gym and I’m trying to continue to challenge myself which I love“.

    Not yet 3 months later, you shared today: “I recently ended my Irish fling… It has been 14 months since I separated from my wife… we still co-parent really well and she knows I am a good father… Is it wrong that I still continue to feel like there could be something still there between my ex and I???… On one hand I am so happy with my life right now and have rediscovered what I had lost during our marriage, but having been on dates and met other woman none are quite the same as her and it has me thinking and confused… Any advice welcome Dave“-

    – I want to bring up a few things to you: (1) in your first post, Jan 2023, you shared that you met your wife after having “ just broken up from a relationship“. Fast forward, you just ended the relationship with the Irish woman (“I recently ended my Irish fling“), and you are thinking about getting back together with your estranged wife.

    It may be that you have too much trouble being alone/ unattached to a woman, and when unattached, you quickly seek attachment, be it to a new woman or to an ex.

    On Dec 5, 2023, you wrote: ” I feel very alone when my children are not there“. Feeling very alone/ too alone now, after recently being no-longer attached to the Irish woman?

    (2) Life would be simpler financially and practically, if the next attachment would be to your now-estranged wife, wouldn’t it?

    (3) There is a HUGE elephant in the room: “The main problem is she no longer trusts or respects me” (June 9, 2023). Unless this has drastically changed, getting back together with her would be a bad, bad idea.

    Having re-read your posts this morning, I noticed that she complained about you a lot (that you are lazy and other disrespectful evaluations of who you are), but you didn’t complain at all about who she is. This is congruent with you feeling inferior to her, as in.. deserving her disrespect.

    (4) You shared back in Feb 14, 2023, that you were “in a constant state of feeling out of control and emotional about our situation“. You don’t want to go back to that feeling out of control, do you? I mean, your estranged wife, if she still disrespects you (as she has for such a long time), it wouldn’t be a good idea to reunite with her because being disrespected day after day is bad for your mental health, and bad for your kids to observe.

    anita

    in reply to: Passing clouds #435081
    anita
    Participant

    Hey Zenith, good to read back from you. I am okay. Are you back in the U.S.?

    anita

    in reply to: Taking a break #435066
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Clara:

    You posted the above Tues evening, 7:33 pm your time. It is now Wed 1 am, your time. I hope that you are sleeping restfully following a down-time evening.

    The sadness that came is still inevitable“- understandable.

    anita

    in reply to: Taking a break #435029
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Clara:

    I had this weird sense of relief knowing that ‘oh, that’s where it came from’ when I read the first two chapters“- it helps to understand that much of what we become is a bunch of  reactions to our growing-up experience, and that as humans, our responses are.. human: if there was another human on the face of the earth who experienced your exact childhood, he/ she would have reacted similarly, if not the identically.

    At this point, I am not very hopeful of our relationship, I cried yesterday…  I think I was grieving the relationship, or at least the relationship that I thought I had“- I know you are hurting, Clara, and I hope that soon you will feel better and better.

    About grieving what you thought you had: how about grieving wishful thinking of all kinds, and commit to realistic thinking, that which is in the core of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Schema Therapy, which is an integrative therapy that evolved from CBT and other therapies..?

    anita

     

    in reply to: Taking a break #435003
    anita
    Participant

    You are welcome, Clara. I am looking forward to read about your insights, when you are ready to share.

    anita

    in reply to: Ex fiancé wants to meet #434980
    anita
    Participant

    How are you, Debs123?

    anita

    in reply to: Need to Do a Short Interview with a Buddhist #434979
    anita
    Participant

    * Dear Tommy: I have an idea: why don’t you start your own thread with what you expressed in your most recent post? By the way, I think that your posts today were fine. When I read the one to Vee, I thought to myself that you were getting to a point where you express yourself honestly and you do it in a none-rude way- a delightful combination!

    anita

    in reply to: Taking a break #434975
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Clara:

    You are welcome, and thank you for your empathy and kindness. As I re-read the quotes this morning (before reading your recent post), the first one stood out to me: “You must learn to express your anger appropriately and constructively. Instead of continuing to let your anger control you, you must learn to use your anger to improve the relationships in your life.”- I don’t think I ever thought of anger as constructive or helpful in relationships/ interactions with people. To feel anger at another person was always a Problem for me, something too big, too threatening, like having a bomb within me and not knowing what to diffuse it. In my mind, the desired state of affairs was No Anger. Of course, I was angry a whole lot of the time, definitely stuck in a Hurt, Scared and Angry Child Mode.

    I need to re-evaluate anger, to integrate (still feels strange to say it) constructive and helpful anger into my thinking, feeling, and interacting with others. Anger needs to no longer be something negative and BAD, in my mind, but something that can be positive and GOOD.

    I like your scribble, Clara, very well articulated. I like your “you want to win this? or win your life back?” It makes me think of one of the quotes: “Remember, we want power to, not power over“- power to self-regulate: emotionally and behaviorally. To be emotionally healthy, a person has to experience a sense of personal power: not power over someone else, and not the power to suppress emotions, but the power to confidently and fairly assert oneself in the world.

    my emotion is my responsibility… do no engage in the negative blaming cycle“- I imagine that the next time you get angry (at A, let’s say) the tendency will be blame her for it, it’s a habit of the brain/ body.

    Is the lashing out legit“- I don’t think that lashing out (to suddenly hit someone, or to criticize someone very angrily) is ever legit except if your life is in physical danger, as far as hitting someone. Criticizing someone very angrily is not going to do any good to the criticized, as far as he/ she considering changing their behavior.

    emotions flow“- if we are healthy. When not, they are stuck inside us, and we are stuck with them, not free-flowing.

    practice trust trust her with what she says“– like the blaming habit, distrusting is also a habit. It will take persistence through time to change this and other habits.

    the fearful and hurt child may sometime go wild, gives her lots of love and reassurance… and do not get affected by your emotions when they want to overwhelm you…  let them go, do not cling“- I didn’t allow anger to be, thought of it as something negative and bad, so  suppressed it for so long: no wonder it grew so BIG within me, overwhelming, threatening.

    In between suppressing anger and lashing out, there must be a middle way: expressing it but not all of it, not the size/ intensity it grew to be.

    anita

    in reply to: Taking a break #434969
    anita
    Participant

    * You are welcome, Helcat. Thank you for saying me quoting, was a great idea. The quotes inspired me!

    anita

    in reply to: Taking a break #434960
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Clara:

    I looked up quotes from the books recommended to you (thank you, Helcat and Roberta!) and thought of sharing some with you:

    Reinventing Your Life (Goodreads. com): “You must learn to express your anger appropriately and constructively. Instead of continuing to let your anger control you, you must learn to use your anger to improve the relationships in your life.”

    “You probably accept a subordinate role in your relationships with family members, lovers, and friends. Undoubtedly this gives rise to anger (although you may not be aware of it). You like the security of these relationships, but you feel angry toward the people who provide it.”

    “A lifetrap is a pattern or theme that starts in childhood and repeats throughout life. The theme might Abandonment or Mistrust or Emotional Deprivation or any of the others we described. The end result is that, as an adult, we manage to recreate the conditions of our childhood that were most harmful to us… our lifetraps were usually developed when we were children as appropriate adaptations to the family we lived in. These patterns were realistic when we were children; the problem is that we continue to repeat them when they no longer serve a useful purpose.”

    “Lifetraps are long-term patterns. They are deeply ingrained, and like addictions or bad habits, they are hard to change. Change requires willingness to experience pain. You have to face the lifetrap head-on and understand it. Change also requires discipline. You have to systematically observe and change behaviours every day. Change cannot be hit-or-miss. It requires constant practice.”

    Breaking Negative Thinking Patterns🙁therapy resources. org, PDF!!!):  “Does that sound familiar to you? Persistent patterns you just cannot get rid of? The same kind of feelings mixing up your life over and over again?… In the first part of this book we explain how you can explore the origins of your patterns. You will also discover your real needs and how you can meet them better. In Part II we will introduce methods to change your patterns step by step… The therapy that’s aiming to change your patterns is called schema therapy”.

    “When you are in a Child Mode your reactions towards others can resemble the behavior of a child. Like a child, you may find it hard to control your impulses: you may start crying in a conversation with your boss, or you may slam the door in a fight with your partner…  When we are in a Child Mode feelings of sadness, anger, shame, or loneliness are exaggerated; it can be very difficult to calm down… People suffering from emotional problems usually experience Child Modes particularly intensely. Small triggers can evoke strong negative feelings, even if the incident is trivial from a more objective perspective… The intensity of
    negative emotions seems disproportionate to the event. Moreover, it is really hard for a person in a child Mode to control those feelings and the related reactions”.

    “2.2 Angry and Impulsive Child Modes…  are often triggered when you feel that your needs are not respected. However, unlike
    the Vulnerable Child Mode, they are related to the so-called “hot” feelings, like anger and rage. Your behavior in this Mode might be angry or enraged… It is important to understand that the underlying needs are legitimate; it is absolutely normal
    to get angry when your needs are not met! However, the behavior associated with this Mode is often inappropriate… When anger is dominant you experience intense annoyance or strong frustration when emotional needs (e.g., for acceptance or attention) are not met. This anger might come out in a very strong way, for example, as hurtful claims or sharp criticism. You may tend to “swallow” your anger. However, others may still sense it, even if it doesn’t come out so strongly”.

    “What are the early warning signals of your Angry Child Mode? These may be very specific and individual, including bodily sensation (e.g. tensed shoulders) or, thoughts (“I’m fed up with all of this,” “You don’t give a damn about me”)… Sometimes a short break is the best you can do when you feel the Angry Child coming up… Use a calming symbol… e.g. a smooth stone to carry in your pocket)… Imagine a situation that triggers your Angry Child Mode and then imagine in detail how you would react differently..”.

    Working with Anger (Spirituality and practice. com): “People’s attention so often goes to what is wrong that they fall into despair. Bombarded by the news, which primarily reports conflicts and catastrophes, they forget the continual kindness that people show each other. The rejoicing meditation is an antidote to this. It is easy to do and can be done anywhere. For example… While waiting at the dentist’s office, we can rejoice in the kindness of all dentists and in the help people receive from them, while also praying that everyone with dental problems has access to the help he needs. Upon hearing someone receiving an award for excellence, we can be pleased with their talent and others’ recognition of it… By each day making a mental note of our pleasure in others’ good fortune, well-being, virtue, and excellent qualities, we will become joyful… All in all, only good, no harm, will come from abandoning envy and instead rejoicing.”

    Prescence (Goodreads. com): “focus less on the impression you’re making on others and more on the impression you’re making on yourself.”, “A confident person — knowing and believing in her identity — carries tools, not weapons.”,  “Remember, we want power to, not power over. We want to look confident and relaxed, not as though we’re trying our best to dominate. The goal is intimacy, not intimidation.”

    “Presence emerges when we feel personally powerful, which allows us to be acutely attuned to our most sincere selves.”, “Ultimately, the only power to which man should aspire is that which he exercises over himself.”, “If you’re protecting yourself against harm—emotional harm or humiliation—you can’t be present, because you’re too protected.”, “Virtually everyone can recall a moment when they felt they were being true to themselves, but few can say they always feel that way.”.

    End of quotes.

    anita

    in reply to: Need to Do a Short Interview with a Buddhist #434949
    anita
    Participant

    * you are delightfully funny, Tommy. Not rude, but funny. Thank you for putting a smile on my face this Fri night (11:35 pm Albany time)

    anita

    in reply to: Taking a break #434948
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Clara:

    You are welcome! I don’t have a book to recommend (haven’t read books in more than 10 years). I hope that you relax and enjoy your solo trip this week, think things through, at your own pace.

    anita

    in reply to: Is this a temporary ebb in friendship ? #434940
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Carol:

    How kind of you to take the time to submit this gracious post, thank you! Please do take the time that you need. I am looking forward to reading your next post, when you are ready.

    anita

    in reply to: Taking a break #434939
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Clara:

    You are welcome, and thank you for being as kind and gracious as you are!

    I think you have a point, that my emotions just go up and down or go in no directions..“- emotion regulation (the ability to exert control over one’s emotional state), and anger management (recognizing when you start feeling angry, then taking action to calm down before acting on the anger) are things to look more into.

    I do give credits to my current on a break partner, I think she did try to make me feel a lot more secure. Once I am secured, I don’t have the fear/ anger responds, other than at times I overreact when things go unexpected“- things in life do go unexpectedly sooner or later (often in the same day), so you feeling secure because of her support cannot be more than temporary.

    A seems like a decent, non-abusive person, from what you shared. You entered the relationship in your 30s insecure. Expecting her to make you feel secure is not realistic and a burden to her. She’ll fail no matter how hard she tries!

    I don’t think (just for my perspective) that the current relationship is abusive. My previous one might be indeed, the indicators were more obvious, I was more explosive like my dad“- notice your wording: you were more explosive in the previous relationship. In the current, less explosive may be .. explosive enough to scare A.

    “There were…  no verbal abuse (bxtch etc.), no physical abuse“- words are as good as their definitions. The abuse I think that you perpetrated against A is this kind of emotional abuse: a pattern of behavior in which the perpetrator generally instills fear in the other.

    I don’t think I threaten her/ gaslight her in any sense, nor did she. But I know I have a very serious look when I get irritated or angry, she might be sensitive to other upset“- everyone is sensitive to others’ expressed anger. Animals are very sensitive to anger expressed by other animals, feeling threatened by it.

    Inherent in the emotion (e-motion/ energy in motion) of anger is an energy toward harming the object of one’s anger. Inherent in one’s anger is a threat to the safety or security of the other. Therefore, repeated expression of anger against a partner who is not abusive (A) is.. a pattern in which one instills fear in the other.

    I re-read again. When I read you said the anger part took over and made me do stuff that I normally don’t (being empathetic etc.), I do agree. My feelings were my head was exploding, and I was a bit out of control“- again, emotion regulation and anger management will be very, very helpful: both your inner experience (head exploding) and the outer expressions of your anger will calm down a great deal.

    The pattern you found was accurate, I started to blame my close one”repeatedly blaming a person for what they are not guilty of is also a form of emotional abuse.

    I don’t think I leashed it out without regulation at all“- yes, you did exercise some emotion regulation not calling her names or hitting her (if at the time you felt like doing these things).

    “Sometime I do leash out, sometime not“- how about never?

    “The emotions and the pattern is there indeed. The pattern was not resolved as well“- the pattern of under-regulated anger and blaming her for what she is not guilty of, is the emotional abuse I am referring to.

    Here is how it looks like to be emotionally abused: “I sometime have some overreacting and made her scared, she takes my emotions as her responsibilities and it seems those are too heavy for her” (June 27), “my reaction makes her feel she was at fault all the time” (July 2), “she is very cautious of what I say and tip toes“ (July 5).

    Your under-regulated anger scares her.

    I happen to be the victim of under-regulated anger as a young child and onward. My mother exercised some control over the expressions of her anger: she hit me but she didn’t break my bones (she literally told me that she is not stupid enough to break my bones and get into trouble, that she is careful). She called me names, she blamed me for her .. insecurities. She severely shamed and guilt-tripping me with the words she said, yelled, repeated.

    As a younger adult, I used to have this recurring dream that very much puzzled me at the time: in my dreams, I would see my mother. No one else and nothing else but her body with her face intently looking at me angrily. No words. No hitting. Just anger registered in  her face.

    Her anger still vibrates through my body every day, every hour, for more than half a century, in the form of (very uncomfortable and sometimes painful) motor and vocal tics. Her anger  is literally in-motion: moving the muscles of my body (diaphragm, shoulders, face) by itself, without my consent.

    Having been abused, I proceeded to abuse a few others, and it’s difficult for me still to admit it to share this. It’s been very difficult for me to forgive myself for those incidents (after no longer being abusive). It’s still painful to remember or think about. This is why I admire you for being willing to look into this difficult topic.

    anita

     

    in reply to: Taking a break #434926
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Clara: I read your most recent post, not focused enough to reply further, being it’s late here, and I had some red wine. But for now, I want to say: you are a good person, Clara. It’s just that you carry on hurt from long ago, and anger (the thing that follows hurt) takes over, overwhelming. Anger took over me too. I know how it feels. More tomorrow.

    anita

Viewing 15 posts - 2,791 through 2,805 (of 4,450 total)
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