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TeeParticipantDear Eva,
just a clarification: when I said that only we can heal our inner child, I didn’t mean we should do it alone.
It’s important to get help from supportive people, including a good therapist, a trusted friend, or e.g. a support group online. You need people who won’t blame you for having needs, who won’t tell you that you’re wrong or selfish for having them. I hope you do have or can find such people in your life. And please continue posting here, if it helps at all.
Wishing you all the best! <3
TeeParticipantHi Alessa,
wow, you’re really diving into that book – I hope you’re finding it useful! <3
Happy to hear that you and your son are enjoying the summer! Wow, meeting a deer in a local park sounds pretty rare! Or is it a zoo type of establishment?
You really made a great progress with your healing and I’m happy for you! ❤️
I did have some unexpected obstacles getting my holiday started, but I haven’t given up! Hope to head to the beach soon! 😊
Wishing you a pleasant remainder of the summer! ❤️
TeeParticipantDear Eva,
I hear you and understand your predicament: you have come to understand (rationally, intellectually) that your ex isn’t capable of giving you what you need. But emotionally, it’s hard to let go of him:
I don’t have a problem with understanding what? Why and how, but I have a problem with understanding how to proceed and let go of something like this.
Emotionally, it seems you’re still craving his validation: for him to tell you that you’re a good person and that you’re not wrong for having needs:
I have the urge to make him understand what he is doing wrong. How can he repair his behaviour and what he can do about me and I am constantly on purpose trying to validate myself in his mind so I can have like a validation that I’ve been a good person that I’ve done nothing wrong
We’ve talked about this before, but I think it’s your inner child that needs validation that she is a good person, who is worthy of love. That she did nothing wrong and has been wrongly accused. Your inner child is trying to finish the unfinished business with your father, and get love and validation from a person who reminds you of your father.
That’s what I think is going on, and why it’s so hard to let go. It is your inner child’s legitimate need for love and validation. Or as you said: the need for attention, love and care:
I am deep drowning in all my decisions in the past all of my situations romanticising everything and because of the lack of attention and love and care
You didn’t get those needs met while growing up: the need to attention, love, care, and validation. And you’re trying to meet them in romantic relationships… but you get attracted (like many of us do) to people who can’t meet those needs. But in all honesty, no one can meet our childhood needs, not even an emotionally healthy and mature partner. The only person who can do it is ourselves.
I wonder how open you are to the concept of inner child healing? It’s all about meeting our own childhood emotional needs (for love, care, attention, validation) and becoming emotionally whole within. It doesn’t mean that we don’t need anyone and become self-sufficient, but rather, that we can choose good, healthy relationships for ourselves, where we will be loved and appreciated for who we are.
I find this loop of being back in the past all the time which really bothers me and I cannot understand how to understand that if something is not working okay? That is not working, and just let it go.
I hope that my suggestion makes sense: that you can’t let go because of those unmet childhood emotional needs (for love, care, attention and validation). Which you now hope to get from your romantic partners (specially those who remind you of your neglectful/abusive father).
So it’s the inner child’s craving that doesn’t allow you to let go, and that makes you emotionally attached to this guy, even if you rationally know that he isn’t good for you.
What do you think? Does this make sense to you?
TeeParticipantDear Eva,
I see your pain, but also a growing realization of the patterns in your relationship and how some things have been repeating over and over again.
It’s funny how he complained that he had peace in that month when you didn’t communicate (That for the entire month we weren’t talking, he had peace.), but still, he was the one who reached out first (Then, out of nowhere, he started texting me again.)
If I remember well, it’s not the first time that he was the one who withdraws (after listing his complaints about you), and then wants to reconnect after a while. He is the one who lures you into his web, gives you a day or two of “paradise”, and then quickly goes back to his old, cold and insensitive self.
It’s almost like he needs a hit of adrenaline or dopamine, and he gets it by enticing you, seducing you, getting what he wants from you, and then discarding you. He is there to take from you, not to give, I’m afraid.
While he is seducing you, he is of course on his best behavior:
It’s that twenty-four hours earlier he had shown me exactly the version of himself I had spent six years waiting for. He proved he could be attentive, warm, affectionate and emotionally present. He texted me all night. He asked questions. He cared about what I was doing. He made me feel safe.
That was the love-bombing, aka the hoovering phase: when the narcissist wants something from you and use all of their charm to seduce you. He knows exactly what you want and like, and how you like to be treated. But he only gives it to you during the love-bombing/hoovering phase. As soon as he gets what he wants from you, he switches off the charm and goes back to being cold.
Instead, I keep ending up in the same place—feeling guilty for wanting attention from the person who says he loves me.
That’s his biggest lie: that he loves you. More correct would be: he loves to use you. To take advantage of you.
And somehow, after all of that, I’m still the one wondering whether I’m the problem.
I think a part of the reason why you think like that is that he is always portraying you as the problem and himself as a loving and caring person. And he uses his intermittent love-bombing/”sweetness” as a proof that he is indeed loving and attentive.
Whereas in reality, a loving person doesn’t switch between hot and cold all the time. They are not caring and attentive one day, only to tell you that you have an ugly personality the next day.
What he is doing is bait-and-switch, actually. And it’s a manipulation tactic, not an expression of love.
And I think another reason why you tend to doubt yourself is your childhood experience, where you were blamed as well and where your needs didn’t matter. And so you’re more susceptible to such false accusations and self-doubt.
But it’s great that you’re realizing and acknowledging your truth more and more, and slowly but surely starting to reject his narrative.
As for action, I’m almost sure he’ll reach out again. Last time you said you were careful at first, but then he managed to do his trick on you:
At first I was careful. I didn’t want to believe anything had changed because I’ve been through this cycle too many times before. But then something happened that gave me hope again.
If he reaches out again, try to keep in mind that what he is doing is baiting. He hasn’t changed, he’s doing the same old trick again, even if it seems upgraded with extra “sweetness.” Try to see it as a baiting tactic, nothing more.
I am rooting for you, Eva! You’re doing an amazing job gaining more and more clarity. <3
TeeParticipantDear Caroline,
I am really sorry you feel like doing a summary of your life because it has ended. It seems like the hope of a life being better again has ended? And you feel like you’ve become a different person and don’t recognize yourself anymore?
What I know for sure is that trauma and abuse can and do change us. I know you’ve had issues in your childhood that left you feeling not good enough. And there were things in your adult relationships as well, where it doesn’t seem like you were respected like you should have been. This can deepen our trauma and make us feel even more separated from ourselves.
If you feel like talking about any of it, you’re very welcome. I certainly hope that you can get in touch with your true self and real joy, rather than feeling like things need to stay the way they are and there is no hope for improvement. Rooting for you, Caroline, and hope to talk to you some more! ❤️
TeeParticipantHi Alessa,
I’m glad you find the book interesting – hope you’ll find it in the audio format as well!
Aw that’s so sweet that you went to the beach and he got to meet Mr. Crab and 2 fish!! 😊 I’m happy he’s enjoying the summer and has no fear of water either!
Also, it’s good to read that you’ve returned to that beach and are reclaiming it and making new memories… that’s a testimony of an amazing healing, Alessa! ❤️
My summer holidays haven’t started fully yet, but I hope to get to the beach very soon and make a splash 😊
TeeParticipantDear Eva,
I’m afraid he is still his old self, nothing has changed in his mind. Your attempts to explain how you feel by using a metaphor haven’t moved him either… He is sticking to his perspective, which is that he is a good guy, patient, that he’s been giving you time to sort yourself out, but that you keep bothering him with your complaints:
He answered that he had also been patient with me. He said he’d warned me for over a year that he was reaching his limit, that he’d given me multiple chances, broke his own promises to leave because he kept hoping things would improve, but nothing changed from his perspective.
His perspective is also this:
From his perspective, I’m exhausting. I’m too emotional. I create conflict. I don’t appreciate what he does. He says a relationship should bring peace, and that I’m the reason it doesn’t.
No matter how hard you try explaining, his perspective isn’t changing. He thinks he is giving you chances. He is waiting for you to change.
Whereas your perspective is this:
From my perspective, I spent years fighting for what felt like basic emotional connection: communication, reassurance, affection, and feeling chosen.
As we’ve discussed earlier, your perspective it true. Based on everything you’ve shared, he is a selfish man who is only using you, and intends to use you until you say stop, I’m afraid.
It’s great that you can see things much more clearly now, and could articulate it to him:
I’ve stretched my own boundaries for him far more than I should have.
I don’t deserve to be treated like this.
If he’s afraid of commitment or emotional vulnerability, that’s something he has to figure out himself.
The way he treats me doesn’t resemble love anymore.
I’m tired of having to convince someone why I deserve kindness.That’s amazing that you have that clarity. Now the next step would be to realize and accept – no matter how hard it is – that he isn’t going to change. That trying to make him understand and see your point is futile.
Because what seems to be happening is that you try to explain, you put your foot down and stand up for yourself. And then he gives you breadcrumbs and spends a nice evening with you, effectively disarming you, making you soft and all hopeful again. And you stay hooked in that spider web of his, where you keep hoping that he would change, trying to explain things, getting confused again by his intermittent “sweetness”, and the cycle continues…
I’m afraid it’s never going to get better, Eva. He’s not changing, he doesn’t have the slightest intention to change. In fact, he is telling you that you should change, and that he’s not happy with you not changing. And that that’s why he has been thinking about breaking up for good for the last year.
Do you see that his and your perspective are diametrically opposite? You want him to change, while he doesn’t see any fault in his behavior and wants you to change??
Because from my perspective, asking someone out, spending a lovely evening together, kissing them… and then saying the next morning, “I’m still thinking about what we should do” feels incredibly confusing.
Yes, it is, and it’s very hurtful. And as you said, terribly confusing. But that’s one of their (a narcissistic person’s) main strategies: mixed messages. He is toying with you, giving you just enough breadcrumbs to keep you hooked. Awakening that hope in you again and again… and then letting you down the next morning. It’s his tactics, Eva, not something he wants to grow out of or heal.
The only way is to see through his manipulation and stop hoping that he would change… I know it’s hard, especially because he can occasionally be so sweet and kind. But that’s the intermittent reinforcement and serves to keep you hooked, even if he doesn’t have any serious intention to change.
TeeParticipantHi Alessa,
you’re very welcome, I hope the books is helpful! Gabor Maté is an expert in childhood needs (and teaches the concept of the inner child too), and he is aware of the mistakes he himself made as a young parent.. So I hope he can give good guidance on authoritative parenting, setting loving boundaries etc.
Oh I see, it’s mostly for the group excursions to the nearby forest that you worry he might have problems with, because it is required that he hold hands with another kid when crossing the road and moves along swiftly, I guess, without stopping frequently and getting distracted, right? Perhaps you can practice walking across the same road with him, holding his hand, so he gets used to it? And if he is reluctant, maybe you can say it’s a practice for his kindergarten and a precondition for going to group excursions?
I do hope he fits in well and adjusts quickly to the new environment. 🙏
Thank you so much for your kindness and support, Alessa, and wishing you and your boy happy summer days! 😊❤️
TeeParticipantHi Alessa,
thank you for your understanding and prayers for more good days – that’s exactly what I’m praying for too 🙏 ❤️
Good to hear that you’ve got everything ready for your boy for November!
As for dealing with temper tantrums, the experts say it’s most important to establish a strong, secure attachment with the child, which will in turn help them deal with occasional frustration. In fact, they say that it’s okay to let the child feel a mild frustration occasionally (e.g. saying no to something), because that will help them deal with frustration later during school years and beyond.
There is a book on parenting, written by an expert whom I greatly admire, Dr. Gabor Maté. I didn’t know he wrote a book on parenting too, but I can imagine it’s really valuable. The title is “Hold On to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers“, by Dr. Gordon Neufeld & Gabor Maté.
I totally get that you don’t want to cause any trauma to your son, but it seems it’s okay to cause mild frustration (i.e. set boundaries that no kid likes) – if there is a loving, secure attachment, where they can express their frustration and still be held lovingly by you, rather than being punished for expressing their anger.
Wishing you and your boy a successful start of a new big chapter in life! ❤️
TeeParticipantDear Eva,
I feel how his comments influence me now, and I feel like I am not beautiful or enough. I think he purposefully acted like an asshole towards me for some reason. I feel like he would mock me with his friends group now, that I am stupid or naive or whatever.
Even if he acted like an a**hole on purpose, he is still an a**hole, no doubt about that. And as Roberta said, you don’t want to bother about what an a**hole thinks of you. You don’t want to take such a person’s opinion into consideration.
I’m sorry that his comments hurt you, but please disregard them because they speak of him, not of you. The best would be to ignore him. If you meet him during working hours, you may greet him and that’s it. I wouldn’t get into discussions with him, nor would I try to prove anything, or to revenge in some way. You don’t need to act tough or bitchy – simply ignore him. Don’t react to him, even if he tries to provoke you.
Part of me thought it was strange because he didn’t seem interested in taking me on an actual date, getting coffee, or getting to know each other properly. But I also felt like this was probably the only chance we’d actually spend time together, so I said yes.
It sounds like a part of you had a healthy self-protective reaction, because you didn’t really know much about him (including what kind of motorbike rider he is).. but another part of you really wanted to get to know him better, and so you’ve overridden your healthy instinct in order to accommodate him.
It’s good than nothing bad happened and as you said, he wasn’t physically aggressive or anything. But still, perhaps the way forward would be to listen to your gut feeling more, and if something feels off or not to your liking, to simply refuse it. You’re allowed to take care of yourself and your needs first (including your safety needs), and if someone doesn’t want to respect that, well, too bad for them, then they don’t deserve your attention.
What do you say?
TeeParticipantDear Eva,
I won’t beat around the bush, but immediately answer your question:
Does this sound like someone who’s just very blunt, or does his overall attitude seem disrespectful to you too?
Oh yes, his overall attitude seems very disrespectful – he takes you out on what seems to be an ad hoc date and then spends time putting you down and criticizing you.
And he agrees in some aspects with Andrew Tate, whom I don’t know much about, except that he is a self-proclaimed misogynist, who was “charged with rape, human trafficking and forming an organised crime group to sexually exploit women.”
I wonder what kind of treatment he thinks is fine “if a woman deserves it”…?
He didn’t seem curious about getting to know me.
It felt like he was constantly labeling me, judging me, or telling me what kind of person I was instead of asking questions.There you go, Eva, you’ve described him well: a judgmental, disrespectful, macho/misogynist guy, who didn’t even bother to pretend that he likes you. Which is in a way better, because at least he’s shown you his true face immediately, unlike your ex who was very sweet in the beginning. So at least he doesn’t pretend to be something that he isn’t.
But it only means one thing: stay away from him, you don’t want to have anything to do with a guy like that. He seems he enjoyed putting you down and toying with you!
Instead I came home wondering if I had just gone out with someone who’s emotionally immature, trying too hard to be “macho,” or if this is just a completely normal personality type that some women actually enjoy.
This is not a normal personality type, but a women-hater. I can’t think of a woman who would enjoy being told that she is too skinny, that she overdressed, that she is flawed in this or that way – on the first outing with a guy! Heck, he told you you’re not normal (“You’re alternative. “alternative girls aren’t normal”.).
So really, I don’t think there’s any doubt about who he really is and how he likes to treat women.
I’d genuinely appreciate outside opinions because I feel like my previous relationship has made me question my own judgment.
Your judgment is fine Eva, you’ve spotted the red flags immediately. And my suggestion is: lose his number, don’t contact him, and don’t go on any more dates, even if he asks you.
TeeParticipantDear Eva,
first I’d like to say that no matter how hard it is for you to finally see the truth, it’s great that you can do it and that you can so clearly express your outrage at how things have been for such a long time.
I’m deeply sorry things happened this way. I genuinely believed I wanted us to work and that I could build a life with him. But if there’s one thing I remember, it’s that I always felt alone in that relationship.
Lonely. Sad. Frustrated. Jealous. Like I wasn’t enough. Desperate. Insecure.
I don’t know how I kept allowing that for so many years. That’s not what a partner is supposed to make you feel. That’s not what a relationship is supposed to be. That’s not what life is supposed to be.
It’s great that you can see that this is not how a relationship should be. I think this alone is the first step to healing: realizing that how he treated you was toxic and that you absolutely don’t deserve it and shouldn’t accept it in any future relationship.
This right there could be a set of red flags for a future relationship: if your partner is dismissing your feelings and your needs, if he is hiding you from the world and making excuses, if he is blaming you for having legitimate needs, if he refuses to take responsibility for his bad behavior.
And no, I don’t think I’ll ever understand how he could look at me with so little regard that he allowed himself to treat me that way.
A narcissistic person unfortunately has little regard for others and can go to great lengths at exploiting people if no boundaries are set. The cure with those people, and in general in relationships, is to love and respect ourselves enough and not allow them to treat us like that.
In other words, you have to stand up for yourself and not allow them to treat you like that. You cannot count on them to “see the light” and treat you better.
I think this subject has been analyzed and talked to death over all these years. The only thing that was ever missing was real action—something lasting that would actually change things. And in this case, there was only one possible action left:
The end.
Sadly.
Yes, you’ve try to talk about it with him for many years. But it fell on deaf ears, because unfortunately he is not the kind of person who had empathy or understanding for you. He was using various tricks to keep you hopeful, but nothing was ever changing. He was just using you.
And now you’ve finally had enough, now you could finally see through his lies and manipulations. Which is great. That you broke the spell.
Even if you’re sorry that it ended, with this particular person it’s better that it ended. Because as you said it yourself, that’s not the kind of relationship you want. You don’t want to dig yourself into something that leaves you “Lonely. Sad. Frustrated. Jealous. Like I wasn’t enough. Desperate. Insecure”.
It’s time to turn a new page, and I’m glad you’re feeling it too. I think the first thing is to make sure that you don’t get tempted to text him (or if you do get tempted, to not actually send the text, because you know from past experiences that it leads to another cycle of the same kind of misery.) How are you feeling on that front, Eva? Do you think your resolve is strong enough to stay away from him, even if he reaches out?
I think the steps outlined by Darren Magee (which I outlined above) can be a great help, specifically in fighting the urge to go back, and in general in recovery after narcissistic abuse. What do you think, have you taken a look?
Let me know how you’re feeling and what you think/feel would be the best next step for you <3
TeeParticipantDear Eva,
I’m sorry you’re feeling this way. But it’s totally understandable after finally seeing the truth of the situation, the truth of his callousness and manipulation…. that you feel extremely disappointed and angry at him, yourself and life.
It has been a rude awakening but a necessary one, and from now on, you can start building your life on something real and solid. But it will be a long process to slowly get to know yourself and appreciate yourself. And love yourself…
You said last year that you only know toxic love. That too is understandable, unfortunately, since your upbringing was far from ideal. You didn’t get a healthy and supportive parental love. And so you have a hard time feeling love and compassion for yourself…
I’m 28 years old, my family expects me to do something glamorous with my life, but I do it, everyone has expectations for me and I don’t know where to start. I don’t know what I want, I don’t know where I’m going, I don’t know how I imagine my life, I don’t know where to start, I don’t even know how to achieve what I want, everything seems unattainable to me.
You’d need to get in touch with yourself. With your needs, desires, likes, dislikes… Instead of trying to please others and caring about their needs, you’d need to turn your attention inwards and listen to what you need….
Slow things down, put on pause those outside voices and their expectations, and listen to yourself, to the song of your soul. I’m not saying this is easy, but the real liberation is within, in getting in touch with your true, beautiful, unique self <3
How does this sound?
If you want to explore things further, I’d be happy to help if I can <3
TeeParticipantHi Alessa,
happy to hear from you! <3
I understand you’re busy and also not always in the mood for soul-searching conversations. Sometimes we just need to manage our day-to-day. <3
I too am sometimes overwhelmed by life, specially regarding my health issues, and it takes away all my energy and focus. It’s a perpetual issue, as you say, but sometimes it gets worse and that’s when it’s hard to cope. Anyway, radical acceptance is the name of the game 🙂
Wishing you well too, Alessa. When is your son starting nursery? Hope all is well with him and he is a happy chap 🙂 ❤️
TeeParticipantDear Eva,
I’ve found a great video that answers some of your questions, which is basically how to break the trauma bond. The title is “Understanding Intermittent Reinforcement in Narcissistic Relationships”. It’s on Darren Magee’s youtube channel.
This is what I’ve gleaned from the video:
A relationship with a narcissist is really addictive and might as well be treated like an addiction, because of a special tactic they use on the victim, which is called intermittent reinforcement.
This means they sometimes treat the victim with kindness and affection, and sometimes with utter disdain. Sometimes their behavior can be predicted, and sometimes it’s completely random and depends of their mood that day. This roller-coaster of never knowing how you will be treated creates a constant anxiety, as well as craving to get the positive reinforcement (moments of kindness and affection) and avoid the negative reinforcement (criticism, silent treatment, punishment).
The victim is conditioned to seek approval and avoid their abuser’s displeasure, at the cost of their own self-interest and well-being.
Due to a lot of mixed messages, the victim is confused and has trouble reconciling the person’s loving and abusive actions. This leads to confusion, i.e. cognitive dissonance. Many victims report that a compliment or a kind gesture is immediately followed by a sarcastic remark, e.g. “you look nice, for a change.” Or a degrading remark in front of others aimed at humiliating you is followed by a hug or a compliment.
Mixed messages deepen the internal conflict and can further trap the victim in the relationship, because they are confused and struggle to see the situation clearly.
How to break free from trauma bond (this is mostly transcribed from the video, with my comments inserted):
1. Recognize the patterns (e.g. the positive reinforcement might come whenever they want something from you, or when they see you becoming distant. So they give you breadcrumbs to keep you hooked. Whereas angry outbursts or silent treatment might come whenever you say no or want to do something for yourself. Positive reinforcement, e.g. them breaking the silent treatment, might come whenever you back down and compromise. So learn the patterns, learn the cycle.
2. Find a good therapist who understands narcissistic abuse (Eva, you said you’ve been to therapy. Have you talked about potential narcissistic abuse?).
3. Build a support system: reconnect with friends and family members who can offer emotional support and different perspective (perhaps your sister?), or build a new support network (e.g. consider joining an online support group with people who have similar experiences and are walking the same path. It’s great that you’ve reached out here as well!).
4. Participate in activities you enjoy. This will give you a natural boost of dopamine which will help replace the dopamine released in the trauma bond.
5. Practice self-compassion and self-care, know that you deserve to be treated with love, respect and kindness.
6. Set new private and professional goals that are independent of the narcissistic person’s influence. Make decisions that don’t depend on their approval.
7. If you can, end all contact. If you can’t (because of professional or family obligations, e.g. you have children with them), reduce and manage contact.
8. Accept that recovery can be a long-term commitment. The trauma bond didn’t develop overnight. Abuse was a long, insidious process, which many people don’t even realize it’s happening until they’re in the middle of it. So give yourself time and patience.
9. Acknowledge and celebrate your progress, no matter how small it may be.
I hope this is useful, Eva. I guess your ex was heavily using intermittent reinforcement and making it very confusing for you. From what I could understand, he was promising to make your relationship public, but it never happened. That was one such positive thing that you got hooked on and kept hoping for, which perhaps made you tolerate some things that you otherwise wouldn’t have?
As for mixed messages, you mentioned the occasion when he let you invite your friends to a concert, but then kept his distance from both you and your friends, walking separately, not speaking to them, etc. It’s like first he hooked you with the promise of a night out in the company of others, and then he sabotaged it. A mixed message. Or he invites you to his apartment, and then completely ignores you. A mixed message.
It was crazy making! No wonder it made you frustrated and confused.
Anyway, hope this was useful… rooting for you, Eva, and hope to hear from you again! <3
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