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  • in reply to: I Think im the devil in this relationship-help! #383288
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Natie,

    In terms of what im planning to do. i guess since we’ve already broken up , i just need to accept it and try to make peace with this fact and start holding myself more accountable to be a better person. do you have any better approaches that you can point me to?

    Actually no, I believe it’s good you’ve broken up because he wasn’t respecting your career plans (which he earlier agreed on) and saw his needs and goals as more important than yours. He said:

    ”no guy waits all that long , all i want is to be with you , i dont see why you cant make that happen even if it means to change your entire career you can always find another job..”

    He asks you to change your entire career so you can be with him and probably “mother” him in the States, or wherever he is currently living. That’s why he refused a long-distance relationship:

    i asked him to continue doing our long distance relationship like any other couple but he said that this is not love and im not putting him as a priority then

    He probably needs you by his side, to help him, support him, solve his problems, comfort him (the last part he wasn’t getting so much, that’s why he was complaining), in short he needs you to serve as his care-taker. And you’ve been doing that vigorously because that’s what you’ve learned at home. You were a mother/care-taker to the entire family.

    Anyway, if he can’t respect your needs and only cares about his own needs, it’s not a healthy base for a relationship. Don’t blame yourself for the failure of the relationship, don’t think of yourself as a bad person. You do have the right to follow your goals and dreams, you do have the right to work in your preferred field. You don’t need to sacrifice that for anybody.

    What you can work on is releasing this role of being a care-taker, or a mentor for others: being responsible for others, and also pushing them to be their best (and in that, perhaps controlling them, or not empathizing enough with them). You said:

    i am the eldest child and so if i got a bad grade at school my mom would be really sad and i felt like i had to write a letter to her to apologise or when my siblings were growing up I was always up till now uptight and worried that if they satyed out all night they will cause problems at home so i kept calling and chasing them and felt it in my bones because if i didn’t there will be a fight at the house between my parents.

    It seems you felt responsible for your mother’s happiness, and did whatever possible not to upset her. One was excelling at school – you felt so guilty for getting a bad grade, that you felt you needed to write her a letter and apologize. You also felt responsible if your parents had a fight, and you tried everything to prevent it – and so you tried to control the behavior of your younger siblings.

    I can imagine how much pressure you were living under as a young girl, trying to keep your parents happy, looking for solutions all the time, trying to minimize damage, and feeling guilty if you haven’t succeed. It was a big burden, and this is a girl you need to empathize with first. You yourself, as a  young girl, eager to make her parents happy.

     

    in reply to: Letting go of hope for a person’s recovery. #383218
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear canary,

    I would just like to add that you are not too much, and that your need for empathy, comforting and soothing is legitimate. Your anxiety is probably the result of those and other needs not having been met properly in your childhood. There are ways how to meet those needs after the fact, in adolescence and adulthood, in a safe therapeutic setting.

    What I was saying is that he, as a young guy and a non-professional, is unlikely to be able to meet your needs, even if he were the kindest person on earth, because there is a wound there that first needs healing. If in addition he has his own issues and reacts negatively to your needs, then he definitely isn’t/wasn’t able to give you the support you need. But help is available, and I hope you can get access to therapy soon…

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Tee.
    in reply to: Letting go of hope for a person’s recovery. #383206
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear canary,

    At the beginning of the friendship, he was aware of my mental state and was checking in on me, asking if he could do anything to make me feel better. This continued on into the relationship but slowly he started checking in on me less. I would get lots of anxiety and need reassurance that he loves me. He would try his best to reassure me and make me feel better. When I was having very rough days, we wouldn’t talk as much because he was never available to talk. This really hurt me and he was aware that we weren’t talking as much and he admitted it.

    Here is one possible scenario of what might have happened: In the beginning he was able to empathize with you, checking in on you, being kind and considerate, and offering help. As you were anxious quite a lot, it could be that after a while he got tired of always talking about your anxiety and being careful not to upset you. He might have started developing resentment for always needing to take care of you, and it might have manifested in him not being there for you when you needed it most: When you had a specially rough day, he wasn’t available to talk. Or when you were about to be admitted to hospital for suicidal ideation, he instead of being concerned, started talking about his exam.

    It could be that you were too much to handle for him, and so he sometimes “checked out”, exactly at the worst time. He probably couldn’t tell you directly at the time that you’re “too much”, but did it in this form of passive aggression.

    He always does this in conversations, even when I’m just talking about myself (unrelated to my mental state) he does not acknowledge it and just continues to talk about himself.

    One possible reason for this could be that he is narcissistic and really inconsiderate, and that in the beginning of your relationship he was faking kindness and interest in you. The other possibility is that he isn’t narcissistic but that he felt unheard, since a lot of your conversations were about you. As I said before, maybe he was tired of talking only about you and tending to your needs, but wanted to talk about himself, and expected you to listen to him and be there for him? I really don’t know if this is the case, just putting it out there as a possibility…

    Having read everything you wrote, I see two possibilities: 1) one is that he truly isn’t able to empathize with people and is extremely self-centered (it would be true if he were a narcissist, or someone with antisocial disorder), or 2) that he isn’t able to show as much empathy for you as you would want it – however that it’s not a failure of his character, but rather that due to your anxiety, you are very sensitive and in a big need of empathy and soothing, which he isn’t able to meet (and then reacts with resentment, and lately, is extremely hostile and disrespectful).

     

     

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Tee.
    in reply to: I Think im the devil in this relationship-help! #383202
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Natie,

    you’re very welcome, I am glad that you can now see your dynamic with him a bit more clearly. What are you planning to do regarding your relationship?

    as for being the eldest , yes 100% thats correct and not only my sibilings but the entire family’s problems somtimes..

    It seems you took it upon yourself to be the serious and responsible one in the whole family… If you would like to say some more about your childhood and the family dynamics, you’re very welcome.

    i am starting to learn how to let go slowly , there is alot of bad habits i need to change about me ..

    Since you easily slip into harshly accusing yourself (“I am the devil in the relationship”), my advice would be to start with a lot of self-compassion and self-acceptance. Also, try having compassion for your inner child – for the girl you once were, burdened with responsibilities beyond her age, trying to be a perfect daughter and a perfect sibling (if I am guessing right?)… If you feel like sharing some more, please do.

     

    in reply to: Need some advice, as im so frustrated #383200
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Felix,

    I am sorry you’re feeling sad. But it’s normal – you hoped for a relationship with her, and she rejected you once, then she sparked your hope again, only to reject you once again.

    I feel so much unfairness, as i think she’s not as sad as me…

    She probably isn’t, that’s why she decided not to pursue a relationship with you. The person who initiates the break is never as nearly as sad as the one left behind. That’s the nature of breakups… I guess her feelings for you were less than yours for her, otherwise her parents couldn’t influence her so much. Because you said they didn’t really forbid her to date you, but only advised against it. But she readily accepted their advice, and even told you she doesn’t want a long-distance relationship, with your visiting her from time to time. If she cared about you enough and didn’t want to lose you, she would have been open for a LDR, to be able to get you know you better, face to face.

    I too was in a LDR for 5 years, meeting my now husband approx. once per month. You two will be living only 45 minutes apart, it’s nothing. But she refused that, which means she doesn’t really want to deepen the relationship with you and get to know you better.

    I think that you should accept the fact that she’s just not that into you, even if she’s told you differently. Her actions and her attitude (rejecting a LDR) speak more than her words…

    Do u think if i hope to fate everyday that i will be brought into the right path with her will only cause bad influence to me? Will it only remind myself of her?

    I don’t think it would benefit you to hope and pray for you two getting together. It would only prevent you from finding someone else, someone better… You yourself are very young, she is your first crush, your whole relationship happened online, so it wasn’t even a real relationship since you didn’t really go on dates, have you? I dare to say that you practically haven’t experienced a real relationship yet.

    You say you’re madly in love, but you haven’t even held her hand, have you? You are in love with an image of her, and also with the feeling you had while interacting with her: you felt appreciated, you felt someone values you and shows interest in you. You desperately needed this kind of attention – positive attention – from people, because you haven’t received it from your parents. She provided it for you, and it made you feel loved.

    But it doesn’t mean she is the one for you. There are other girls out there who might like you and appreciate you, and want to go on dates with you, and even plan a future with you. You’re only at the beginning. 22 years is super young. As I told you once before, even at 32 you’ll still be young. You’ve got 10 years to work on yourself and find a suitable girl. There is no rush.

    I know that i should focus on improving myself, but it’s so hard to stop thinking about her…

    I know, because you tend to overthink and obsess about things (your internal saboteur!), and she is another obsession of yours, which your mind easily slips into. You start thinking and overthinking until your brain explodes and you decide that “I’m so tired with life”. The obsessive thinking does that to you – it drains your energy, it makes you stuck in an endless loop. It’s like getting caught in an eddy, you try to swim out, but cannot, the pull is stronger…

    We’ve spoken about the ways you can silence the anxious mind. The best would be to do some physical exercise (you said you’d try jogging around the block) to stop the mental chatter…

     

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Tee.
    in reply to: Letting go of hope for a person’s recovery. #383194
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear canary,

    He did appreciate me in his own way

    He shows his support and love to me in a very different way, at first I wasn’t used to it and I wholeheartedly believed he did not love me because he was not showing me love in a way that I understood it.

    Could you give an example of how he was showing his support and love for you, which at first you didn’t register as love?

    You say you needed him to show empathy because that’s how you feel loved. Can you give an example of a situation in which you expected more empathy but he failed to show it? And what was his reaction instead of empathy?

     

    in reply to: I Think im the devil in this relationship-help! #383180
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Natie,

    thanks for clarifying. If he was at first supportive of you going to the UAE, but then suddenly started accusing you of being selfish, it’s not a mature behavior, and it’s actually manipulative.

    Perhaps he was conflicted in himself: a part of him supported you in your career goals (his rational, adult part), but another part (a child part) resented you for traveling to another country and leaving him on his own. It could be that his vulnerable, needy child part got stronger after his father’s death, and this made him even more afraid, needy and dependent on you (and  more in need of soothing and comforting too).

    Perhaps when he complains, it’s his fear speaking, but he doesn’t want to admit it – he rather withdraws and suppresses his feelings, and then later accuses you of being selfish. But based on what you say, it seems that he too is selfish because he is speaking from his child part, which only cares about his own needs to be met. This part doesn’t care about you or your needs. It also seems to me that he is swaying between his adult part (e.g. when he understands your reasons or when he apologizes for hurting you) and his scared, needy child part (when he is accusing you).

    If he isn’t willing to look deeper at his own issues, then there’s no point in forcing the relationship, because you’re definitely not the only one to blame, and he would need to take his part of the responsibility.

    you are right , i always seek solutions and probably want everyone to act so fast as a need to save/help them and myself.. i dont know why i do this … i will be working on it along with my temper

    Yes, maybe it has to do with you being the eldest child and feeling responsible for your younger siblings, solving their problems, trying to help them?

     

     

    in reply to: I Think im the devil in this relationship-help! #383171
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Natie,

    I’ve been catching up with your posts on this thread, since when you posted originally I was on holidays and rarely at the computer. I see that you’re questioning whether it was a good idea to initiate the breakup, and further, whether you’re an evil person, a devil, for focusing on your career first and not wanting to settle down just yet.

    This is what you wrote on the subject of career vs settling down:

    he wanted to get married from the first year of our relationship and i want to be with you but lets first figure out our careers and do our MBAs and then we can settle.

    he said some ugly words about the fact that he doubts any guy would want to be with me with my mentality ( not wanting to marry right now and join him at the states because im still not ready and we agreed on marrying at 27 and so i arranged my career and studies to happen prior to that time-

    he always told me he was proud of me and how motivated i am in my career and he feels bad for my bad luck in my unstable jobs but suddenly i was told twice that i was selfish and i put work as a priority because if you love someone you need to compromise and life is short and work in a specific field is not important

    im putting alot of effort into my career and studies at least for the next 3 years and refusing to tie the not in the meantime,

    im asking too much from a guy to wait all these years ( especially that he met me at 21/22) just for me to start my career and get my MBA , , in his own words ” no guy waits all that long , all i want is to be with you , i dont see why you cant make that happen even if it means to change your entire career you can always find another job..

    he saw my latest internship to the UAE ” as a selfish move and that i did it for my own good and not to the good of the relationship” –> which is a point i can not understand till now

    we had a huge fight two days ago where he ended up acusing me of being slefish and just want to follow my career

    i asked him to continue doing our long distance relationship like any other couple but he said that this is not love and im not putting him as a priority then

    It appears that from the start of your relationship, he wanted to settle down relatively soon (presumably after you both graduate?), but you didn’t want that and expressed that to him. You then agreed to get married at 27, after you get your MBA and/or settle in your career. So it seems that in the beginning, he agreed to wait and supported you in pursuing your career and further education first. But after a while, specially after his father’s death, he seems to have changed and started accusing you of being selfish for putting your career first before him.

    Would you say that’s true – that you initially had an agreement, and then the circumstances changed, and as a result, his attitude changed too?

    It could be that his father’s death was a big emotional shock to him, and suddenly he became more vulnerable, asking you to accommodate for that and change the original agreement (of getting married at 27). But you had and still have the same goals and ambitions as before (nothing wrong with that), and didn’t want to abandon them just like that. So you’re sticking by the old plan, and he’s asking you to change it, for his sake.

    I don’t think you’re evil for wanting to accomplish your career goals. I don’t think he is evil either for feeling vulnerable and perhaps lonely, and wanting to settle down sooner. I still think it would be best if the two of you could talk honestly and try to understand each other’s motives. But if every discussion you have ends up in an argument and him accusing you of being selfish, then he isn’t willing to see your point.

    What I am noticing as a potential problem is that perhaps he doesn’t feel heard by you, because you tend to immediately offer practical advice on how to reduce his pain. For example, when his father died, you said you were sending him prayers, meditations, suggesting therapy etc, but when talking to him on the phone, you weren’t very supportive but moody, and perhaps he sensed it. Perhaps, rather than hearing about ways to reduce his pain, he just wanted to be heard and his pain acknowledged. Or, when he called you from the US in the middle of the night, crying, you told him to man up and were upset that he woke you up:

    3 days after his arrival to the states he called me crying in the middle of the night and i was like really? and i started talking with a high pitch but all my content was me telling him the following ” its tough  i know we all been there , i know people who kept on crying for 6 months and wanting to leave and then they survived it ,, i went through this just like you last year and its going to be ok, you need to man up as your father told you ,, etc..” anyways we ended up arguing as he was like why are you screaming why are you acusing me of waking you up , why cant you be more loving by telling me that its ok to go back home or to keep on crying and that its difficult and nothing forces you to stay , etc…

    It seems like he didn’t feel heard by you, because you sort of attacked him for calling you in the middle of the night, and then you told him to man up and “get over it”.

    You said you were like a mother to him in the first 2 years of your relationship, helping him in so many ways and teaching him how to improve himself. Anita likened your behavior to that of a practical mother. Indeed, you seem to be very practical and pragmatic in your approach: if there’s a problem, you seek to fix it as quickly as possible. But you may be missing the soothing, comforting quality of that “mother” – having compassion and understanding, and simply listening to the other person, being there for them, “sitting with their pain”, so to speak.

    It doesn’t mean you need to be a mother to him, either a practical and problem-solving, or a comforting one, but I am just saying that there might be an energy about you where you tend to seek solutions before you really empathize with the person. I wonder if you see any truth in this?

     

    in reply to: bad timing or patterns? #383165
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Peace,

    I am sorry you’re feeling anxious and upset, or as the opposite extreme – flat and numb, after he asked you to marry him. Perhaps the most important question is – do you want to marry so soon (by the end of the year), or you were thinking to graduate from the university first?

    Because you might like the guy and be willing to marry him some time in the future, but if you’ve set some important goals for yourself (like finishing your studies), his rushing you and having expectations from you might cause you a great deal of upset.

    Please know that you do have the right to accomplish your goals and choose your own timing when to get married. If you feel this is too soon, for whatever reason, you have the right to say no, or you can say yes, but not before a date that you feel comfortable with.

    How does this sound to you?

     

    in reply to: Letting go of hope for a person’s recovery. #383160
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear canary,

    you’re welcome, and I am glad it feels freeing to you to still love him but not having expectations of him changing. This helps you be free from emotional attachment to him, from the hope and excitement that you feel if he shows signs of improvement, followed by disappointment and anger if he hurts you again. Basically, it frees you from the emotional roller-coaster, where you make your happiness and well-being dependent on his actions. I am sure you know all this, but I am still saying it out loud to make a stronger point 🙂

    As for his disorder, there are people who love and care only about their immediate family, and would do anything for them – even lie, cheat and steal if necessary (i.e. behave in an antisocial manner). It seems your ex might belong to this category of people… When you were his friend and then girlfriend, he might have put you in the “loved ones” group and would behave kindly to you, or at least would try. Although you say that even then he lacked empathy, but perhaps he was willing to work on it and become “a better person” for your sake. Even after you broke up, up until April 2021, it seems he had remorse for leading you on and hurting your feelings. He even said he was a “shitty person”. He seems to have regretted that he’d hurt you.

    I guess this is the personality that you liked – that he at least saw how some of his actions were hurtful and perhaps showed a willingness to change. But this April, it seems he stopped caring – you say he stopped caring how his actions affect you. I guess this is how he behaves with everybody outside of his “loved ones” group: he doesn’t care about them, doesn’t care if he hurts them or exploits them. This is probably the personality you detest and don’t want to have anything to do with.

    It seems to me you saw a potential in him when he was open to change, when he would admit his mistakes and show some remorse. That was attractive to you and got you hooked, got you hopes up. Based on what you’ve written, he never was truly caring and supportive of you, but at least he was “trying”, or he saw that he “should be” more empathic, and this was what kept you hoping. You did say in your last post that you had “a great bond and connection”. But I wonder if that bond was rather around working on his “improvement” and his need to change, and not really a bond in terms of feeling respected and supported by him?

     

    in reply to: Blackout drunk – again! FML #383142
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Rob,

    you’re welcome.

    I think maybe someplace deep down, I KNOW me fixing myself and changing for the better WILL change everything around me.

    Yes, and it’s scary to change the status quo and have our loved ones get angry at us, perhaps even reject us and abandon us… This I guess is what’s holding you back? You’re aware that certain things in your relationship with your spouse are toxic, but you also love him and want to please him. And as you say, drinking is a way of bonding with him, so it’s hard to let that go.

    It seems to me that if you want to stop drinking, you’d also need to work on your co-dependency with him, and decide that you don’t want to sacrifice yourself in order to keep his love. You’d need to put yourself first, not in a selfish way, but in the sense that you don’t want to jeopardize your health and well-being for him, or for anybody else in your family, even if you love them very much. I wonder how you feel about that?

    Fingers crossed for your first AA meeting!

     

    in reply to: Blackout drunk – again! FML #383128
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Rob,

    I have spoke with a therapist and they believe if I have to admit I have a problem then maybe they need to look at themselves as having a problem. Which a family and friends + spouse have drug and drinking problems. Far more then I but I’m pointing fingers.

    I think your therapist is right – your family discourages you from seeking professional help because it would disturb them and force them to take a look at their own addiction, which they don’t want to, at least not at the moment. And your reluctance to seek help could be in part caused by your desire to fit in, to not “rock the boat”, maybe even not to appear “better” or superior than your family.

    I agree with anita – definitely do seek help, because it’s not going to get better, the drinking problem won’t just miraculously go away. You can’t pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, specially surrounded by people who make it harder for you to stop drinking…

     

    in reply to: Going through a spiritual awakening… #383127
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Moonflower,

    you’re welcome. I am fine, thank you, just returned from holidays 🙂

    It’s good to hear your partner is supportive, thinks highly of you and isn’t affected by other people’s opinions too much, even the opinion of his own family. That’s refreshing and a good base for a healthy relationship!

    I am trying to be more independent from others opinions and not let it affect me as much as I do. For it not to rule how I am around people but the hard truth is, is that it still does. I really hate it when people say things that I’m sensitive about or make.judgemental remarks as I try to avoid confrontation at all costs if I can…

    Unlike your partner, you do care about what other people will say, i.e. are sensitive to their criticism and judgment. You also say you’re critical of yourself, specially your looks after the surgery.

    This probably means you have a rather strong inner critic, which is accusing you of not being good enough, pretty enough etc. After the surgery, you say you felt “less of a person, like something was missing”. I think it was the same inner critic who was telling you that after the surgery, there’s something deeply wrong with you, so much so that you felt less of a person.

    Would you say this is true? If so, I believe it’s your inner critic that is really stopping you from living your life authentically, carefree and at peace with yourself…

     

    in reply to: Letting go of hope for a person’s recovery. #383123
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear canary,

    you’re welcome. I think I know where you’re coming from: you sincerely care for him and would like him to be his best self, not necessarily for you, but for himself – to have as happy and fulfilling life as possible. It’s normal and understandable to feel like that towards the people we love and care about.

    The problem is when we see a potential in our partner and want to change them, because how they are at the moment isn’t acceptable to us. I’ve been with people in whom I saw a potential and wanted to “save” them, and it didn’t end well. It never does. As you yourself say, we can’t force anybody to change, and it’s really futile and even counterproductive to be in a relationship with someone whom we cannot accept the way they are at the moment. It’s much more fair to never enter such a relationship, or to step away, as you did.

    The problem for you is to how to let go of hope, since hope you say is holding you back. I think you should let go of the attachment to him changing. Because it seems a part of you is still attached to the idea that he would change and then you’d be happy together. You can still hold a vision of him being his best self (you can even pray for that, if you’re religious), but you let go of the attachment that he would change and fulfill you. That way you free yourself to live your life independent of him and his decisions, and yet you can still feel love and care for him, by holding a positive vision for him, but without any expectations.

    How do you feel about this?

    in reply to: Letting go of hope for a person’s recovery. #383103
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear canary,

    I now know that I was asking for the bare minimum in the relationship, but it was so difficult for him to give it to me. He has trouble with empathy and he wasn’t able to empathize with me because he was too worried about himself.

    It’s good you’ve realized it wasn’t you who was too demanding, but it was him who was self-centered and giving you very little.

    I simply want the best version of him in my life again which is why I have hope.

    Have you seen this best version of him? If I understood you well, he lacked empathy and was self-centered throughout your relationship. But you also say he was selfless and kind at some point, and tried to empathize with you “even if he had lots of trouble with it.”

    You say you knew about his symptoms (I assume his lack of empathy?) even before you dated. Based on everything you’ve written, does it mean that there was a period when he was trying to change and be a better person for you, a person with more understanding and more empathy? But he never really succeeded, and now he’s given up and is just selfish, “extremely arrogant, only cares for himself” and “does not care to be a better person” any more? He returned to his old self?

    You say you saw a potential in him, and this is what’s giving you hope. But since he’s given up on bettering himself, you know this hope is unreal and you want to let it go? Am I understanding it right?

     

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Tee.
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