June 26, 2020 at 11:38 am #359628
Post as many times as you want to. Take your time doing so.
anitaJune 26, 2020 at 11:58 am #359636
Because your screen name is Iranian, as far as I know (you may be Iranian or not), I googled and found this website, looking for clues to the answer I didn’t get from you (what were your mother’s false hopes and damaged logic?)
Im sorry im from iraq so its close to iran. And thank you for going through all this trouble you really do care
” (I am guessing this is not the case in your household, that neither you nor your mother are involved in decision making. I wonder though how your father has responded to you dropping out of school and not seeking employment)
Well since my mother doesn’t respect my opinion and i don’t really care enough to be the man of the house she is the household. Which still to this day gives me anxiety because in iraq a woman shouldn’t do that when there is a man. So this is one of the reasons people look small of me. Because “how dare i not take of my own mother and take in charge of the house”. But everytime i do actually take the charge she tells me that this is wrong. Everytime i try to she judge me and makes me feel like im not a man to be in charge. And the times i do good when i was in charge doesn’t feel like anything.
One annoying thing that whenever she sent me to the store and tells me to buy X. When i don’t find X and get back empty handed. She tells me why i didn’t buy Y. Then another time when i buy Y she tells me that i should just get back empty handed.
My father died before i drop out. His death was a relief to us all. he was old man nagging all the time and fighting with us for no reason. He always told me when i failed in school that i am a loser. It was his way to parent me and show support apparently. Even if he was alive he had no right to change my mind about not dropping.
When i grew older i thought that my father was right i am a loser. I accepted that long time ago.
I remember when i failed in school for the first time whenever i go to school i used to carry the whole books in my bag. And walk to the school it was half a hour walk. I used to think i deserve it because i failed and no one actually care about punishing me. I used to not spend money and not take any money from my father. I was 15. I even remember my mother telling me to take money from him and in front of both of them i told her that no because i failed. He laughed. He was glad because he was very cheap.
The second time i failed in school i used to cry in my room a lot. Infact it was the first time i cry this much in my life. My mother made me feel guilty because she told me why did you failed when i gave you everything. I remember that i promised myself everytime someone talks about me falling i would just go and watch porn. Since porn/masterbation used to make me feel good and forget. And i did it a lot. With movies and videogames to forgot. I got isolated and saw no point of having friends but then i learn about religion and that a whole another subjectJune 26, 2020 at 12:06 pm #359640
I want to be more focused when I read your recent few posts, so I will be back to your thread within a couple of hours from now.
anitaJune 26, 2020 at 1:12 pm #359660
Family problems in general and children’s problems in particular are kept inside the family. In such cases most people prefer to try and solve them on their own rather than seeking help from outside” (I wonder how true this is in your life).
yes it is true. we never ask anyone’s help. we just deal with them inside the family. so we had a history of terrible decisions by my mother. i actually cant make any decisions because everytime i make one it ends up being bad even the good ones are not worth it
I wonder if your father and mother are expecting you to go back to school, if they see your current stay at home doing nothing- assuming you are doing nothing- as temporary)
i made it clear to my mother that i wont. she doesnt have any right to even tell me. my father had a house and retirement and thats the only things he gave us.
You wrote about your father that he “didn’t bother much to raise us. He was a bad influence”
by bad influence i mean that he was Unemployed doesnt do anything just stay in his room watching tv (you can see where i come from). he didnt had much friends and he didnt care much about life. i dont remember him teaching me something or being a father.
I am guessing that your mother has been warm and affectionate with you, being the singular source of warmth and affection in your young life
i dont remember it to be like that to be honest. maybe my feelings for her now makes me blind but all i remember that she was good. and i respected her for doing father-mother job but it seems she was bad at both. we didnt had an understanding she isnt the type who talk.
But she was weak and maybe abused by your father. You wanted to help her, to protect her from your father
yes you are right. sometimes they get in fights and i always fight with my dad for her. and protect her from him not only she but my younger sister.
to protect your source of love, to be strong for her, but you failed
i dont think i failed i remember i always makes my dad fight with me instead of her.
I wonder if your father beat your mother and his children, you included. I wonder if you greatly needed to rescue your mother, and that it led to your intense feeling of being powerless, too weak to help your mother. I wonder if what you desired more than anything was to help your mother, to rescue her, to make her strong.
he did but rarely. though he was always in the fight with my mother and the whole family. i dont know about rescuing my mother. i didnt had very strong feelings for her to be honest. when i said she loved me i meant when i was a child. i see her sometimes with babies and she is very loving. my brother used to beat me when i was a child because he was jealous from me when i was born. i remember my mother telling me that he used to get really jealous from me and he used to hit me hard. of course i dont remember any of this. i think what made me feel powerless is later on. when i knew i had depression and i cant continue school and there is no one to help and i gotta just accept the fact that i am a loser since i had the feeling of giving up and i used to blame myself for having it.
although i had similar fantasias when i was younger. but thats another whole subject
I wonder if what you meant by her “damaged logic” is the damaged, weak logic of what she told you when you tried to talk sense to her. Her logic was weak And her hopes were based on that weak logic.
since she was at home most of her life and when she married she was only 19. she is very traditional person. and never changes her mind about anything even when its wrong. the life before was very ignorance especially in place that had many wars. so you can see what i meanJune 26, 2020 at 2:41 pm #359679
I read and retyped the information you shared. It helps me to process information when I do that:
You shared that your father died in 2018 while you were attending school, before you dropped out. When he died, it was “a relief to us all. He was old man nagging all the time and fighting with us for no reason. He was unemployed and didnt “do anything, just stayed in his room, watching TV. He didnt have many friends, and “didn’t care much about life”. You don’t remember him teaching you anything, “or being a father”. But he did bother to tell you that you were a loser when you failed school. “It was his way to parent me and show support apparently”. You wrote: “my father had a house and retirement and that’s the only things he gave us”, and that if he was alive when you were still attending school right before you dropped out, he would have no right to tell you to not drop out.
About your mother: “when I said she loved me, I meant when I was a child. I see her sometimes with babies and she is very loving”. But you didn’t describe in your posts any memory of her loving you. You wrote that you don’t like talking about your mother because it bothers you. Not only don’t you want to talk about her, you don’t want to “have anything to do with her”. Your mother told you that when you were born, your older brother was jealous of you and beat you a lot. She didn’t protect you from his beatings, as you shared in one of your previous posts today.
According to Iraqi/ middle-eastern tradition, when the father is dead, the son, or one of the sons, is supposed to be “the man of the house”, the one to take charge. But your mother does not make it possible for you: “every time I do actually take the charge, she tells me that this is wrong. Every time I try to, she judges me and makes me feel like I’m not a man to be in charge. And the times I do good when I was in charge doesn’t feel like anything”.
“One annoying thing is that whenever she sent me to the store and tells me to buy X. When I don’t find X, and get back empty handed, she tells me why I didn’t buy Y. Then another time, when I buy Y, she tells me that I should just get back empty handed”.
“Every time we talk she misunderstands me. She doesn’t respect my opinion”. When you go out with her, “she does stupid stuff that attract men’s attention”, and you are left with anxiety “for not being able to protect her”. You feel anxious about her depending on people, particularly “when it was a man”.
When your father was alive and he and your mother got into fights, you “always fight with my dad for her, and protect her from him.. I always made my dad fight with me instead of her”, and you did the same for your younger sister. When you accompanied your mother on outings without your father, a lot of the time men harassed her” and you used to defend her, even when you didn’t know how to defend. Neither your father nor your brother cared, but you did. At the age of 12-13, you tried to protect your big sister too, accompanying her when she went out socializing, when”men harassed her”. You hated accompanying your mother and your sister whenever either of them went out, and it caused you anxiety. Your mother once told you that you are not a man for not controlling your sister.
Your mother has epilepsy and “has always going on magicians and religious people”. When you told her to see a doctor, she told you that she did, but the doctor she saw “gave her pills that made her sleep”. Whenever you talk to her, “she sounds like a kid. Doesn’t know anything about life. Very simple minded. Everything is black and white”, not “the type to talk”. When you tried to convince her about something, trying to convince her with logic, she agreed with you just so to agree with you, not because she understood, or cared to understand what you were saying. She .. pretended to agree with you, and then she did the opposite of what she supposedly agreed to. She “never changes her mind about anything even when it’s wrong”.
“She makes really stupid decisions and me and the whole family take the consequences”, then she feels bad about herself, and the family has to comfort her. “She has a victim mentality”. A long time ago you respected her for “doing father-mother job but it seems she was bad at both”.
When you failed in school for the first time, you felt that you deserved to be punished, that you should be punished, and that “no one actually cared about punishing me”. You used to not spend any of your father’s money as punishment. When you were 15, and your mother told you to take money from your father, you told her “no, because I failed”. Your father heard that and laughed. “He was glad because he was cheap”.
The second time you failed in school, your mother made you feel guilty, saying: “why did you fail when I gave you everything”. You cried a lot in your room.
You promised yourself that every time someone talks about you failing, you will “just go and watch porn. Since porn/ masturbation used to make me feel good and forget. And I did it a lot. With movies and videogames to forget”.
I will be reading this post (and anything you may add) when I feel focused tomorrow morning, in about 15 hours from now. All this information requires my focus. For now, I want to comment about what I italicized above, the part where you wrote that your father wouldn’t have the right to tell you to not drop out of school, if he was alive, and connect it to what you wrote about your mother regarding whether you go back to school: “she doesn’t have any right to even tell me”-
– I agree, he wouldn’t have the right and she doesn’t have any right over you. You owe her nothing. You have no debt to her. (If anyone owes anyone, it is she who owes you a whole lot).
Thank you for sharing so much. I am honored that you shared with me what you didn’t share before. Over time, I will share with you too, starting tomorrow, just a bit (because I want your thread to be about you, not about me, not much about me, anyway). Be back to you tomorrow.
June 27, 2020 at 5:09 am #359701
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by anita.
Just so i can be clear about some things cause. one of the reasons i didn’t want to talk about my life is because i will make myself look like the victim. So im trying not to
you told her “no, because I failed”. Your father heard that and laughed. “He was glad because he was cheap”.
When he heard me and laughed he laughed because he knew i hated myself but didn’t bother to do anything. He was glad overall that i don’t take money from him.
The second time you failed in school, your mother made you feel guilty, saying: “why did you fail when I gave you everything”
She did that the first time too. Making me have a lot of self hatred for myself because i was the “good kid”
But you didn’t describe in your posts any memory of her loving you.
Cause i don’t remember feeling love for her. I remember one time i get in a store she was outside and the guy was scary. I ran out to her and cried i was 13 (so i was old for something like that). There was a second time also something like this. I just remember her judging me and not knowing how to handle it. Saying something like “be strong”. When i got older and became depressed (and since she didn’t believed in mental illness) she always blamed me for being weak. And not doing enough.
But he did bother to tell you that you were a loser when you failed school. “It was his way to parent me and show support apparently”
What i meant is that it was his way of helping. Telling me that i am a loser so i can get better. Cause he doesn’t like to use nice words.
Your mother once told you that you are not a man for not controlling your sister.
That was something recent because i stoped caring to be the “man of the house” and became a little feminist. She don’t like that.
I agree, he wouldn’t have the right and she doesn’t have any right over you. You owe her nothing. You have no debt to her. (If anyone owes anyone, it is she who owes you a whole lot).
Whenever i used to tell some of problems to people about this kind of stuff. They always told me that “it is your father” and “you should be thankful to him for giving you birth” like life is so amazing. And since i was religous i used to believe such things. I hate those people and since iraq is a religious country they are everywhere
I still feel bad sometimes for having not wanting to do anything with my mother.June 27, 2020 at 5:14 am #359702
Thank you for sharing so much. I am honored that you shared with me
Thank you for listening. I am really grateful
I will share with you too, starting tomorrow, just a bit
If you are comfortable. Im ok with you not sharing. You can tell me the things you like about life and what books you read. What movies you like if you watch any.June 27, 2020 at 6:09 am #359706
You are welcome and thank you for being kind to me (telling me that you are okay with me not sharing, and that I can share if I am comfortable). I appreciate it your kindness.
A week ago you wrote the following: “I don’t think there is freewill and we are all determined by the cards we have, such as (parents/ environment/ genes, etc.).. We just had different cares, I was just unlucky to have such a life, it’s not either my fault or my parents or anyone really”-
– there is truth and untruth in what I just quoted. The baby brought into the world is indeed dealt with cards the baby can do nothing about. As the baby grows up, being a child, he/ she still can’t do anything about the cards he was dealt. But as the child becomes an older teenager and a young adult, now he an opportunity to dispose of those cards and get new cards.
Your father had that opportunity: he could have become an involved and kind father to you. Your mother had that opportunity too: she could have protected you from your older brother, she could have encouraged you in life, instead of discouraging you. It would have been difficult for them to change, but it was possible for your father when he was alive, and it was and is possible for your mother.
Both your parents chose to not change for your benefit even though they knew that you were miserable: “he knew I hated myself”- he knew and yet he chose to not change his ways with you.
“I ran out to her and cried”- she saw you crying, not just that time, but from early on, ever since you were a baby and your older brother hit you, and yet she chose to not change, and she kept judging you (“I just remember her judging me”), instead of loving you.
“Whenever I used to tell some of problems to people about this kind of stuff. They always told me that ‘it is your father’, and ‘you should be thankful to him for giving you birth’ like life is so amazing”- I heard the same things when I told people my stuff, and what they said made me feel worse than I already felt. Because what they said was not true. Looking back, if I had the choice to be born into the life I had to endure as a child and a teenager, I would have chosen to not be born. This choice would have been easy to make, no hesitation. I am not grateful to any of my parents, not at all. Life for me was far from amazing, it was miserable.
About disposing cards and getting new cards: other animals, from turtles to dogs and elephants, none of them can create, they only react to the cards they are dealt with. We human adults have the opportunity to create. We have the opportunity to make our lives greater than a reaction to the cards we were dealt with. Talking about religion: humans created god/ the creator himself… so we can create better lives for ourselves in one way or another.
You talked before about living an easy, comfortable life, and you mentioned that you experience peace of mind most of the time (“I do feel peace of mind mostly”). You don’t plan to go back to school, and you don’t plan on getting a job, as far as I know. And you don’t plan to get a girlfriend/ get married. You live with a judgmental, ignorant woman who is not interested in getting educated about anything (so her ignorance is her choice), a woman who will not admit she is ever wrong.. well, is your living situation suitable for you, and these plans suite you as well?
June 27, 2020 at 8:37 am #359720
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by anita.
about the free will. me thinking there is no free will doesn’t make me helpless or make me think i dont have control over my life. i accept that we dont and act like i have freewill. i still make decisions everyday i just dont blame myself when they turn to be bad since i know i couldnt choose otherwise. since im not very good at explaining. there is two vidoes about this subject. one is philosophical and the other is scientific. both are evidence that we dont have free will.
i would think i have free will if i have more logical evidence then just “we are free because i think i am”
We human adults have the opportunity to create
i cant create something out of nowhere, i simply dont have the cards. i dont have the desire to change. what do i do about that? how can i create a desire to change ? how can i create a desire to live ? unless i relearn life. and i cant do that since i dont have the desire to began with. even if i had the desire somehow i would still live in shitty place and shitty environment. with so much to work to leave
is your living situation suitable for you, and these plans suite you as well?
it is more suitable then the other options. which would be
- learning life form the start with no help
- forcing myself everyday to live such life
- dealing with a lot of stress for no reason (just hoping there is a reward)
- having no freedom of my time because i have to work
- being miserable in that work (i dont like to do anything and in iraq there isnt much options)
- change my whole personality to Adapt with iraqis
- by the time i have enough money to leave i would lose the desire to leave.
- even if i leave there is no place to go. going on 1st world country its like being slave with having to work to eat
- no guaranteed reward from all this. just hope
tell me what other options do i have ? i actually want to know what do you think i can do that i haven’t done before. i dont want to suffer more for no reason. suffering is useless either way i just have to minimize it. and i know how to deal with this suffering.
you live with a judgmental, ignorant woman who is not interested in getting educated about anything (so her ignorance is her choice), a woman who will not admit she is ever wrong
no i dont live with her. she means nothing to me. but i could live with worst if i ever tried.
tell me if you are in my place what would you do ?June 27, 2020 at 10:12 am #359753
I don’t click links, almost never do, so I didnt check the links in your post.
“tell me if you are in my place what would you do?”-
1. I would wait for the ending of this unfortunate global pandemic, work if possible for the purpose of saving money.
2. Once the pandemic is over and travel is safe, I would figure out where in the world I want to go to and fly there.
– as a matter of fact, I did these two things myself and flew across the world (with a week stop in London) to San Francisco, USA, on a tourist visa, by myself, without any help from anyone in my country of origin or in the USA.
Unfortunately for me, I invited my mother to the US and then visited her back in the country of origin repeatedly which drained my motivation and maintained my emotional sickness from childhood. And so, I wasted many years before I finally attended my first quality psychotherapy nine years ago.
– That’s what I would do, if I was a physically healthy 20 year old living in a country and within a family that is not good for me.
* What motivated me to leave the country I was born in, when I was 24, what instilled in me the desire (which you don’t have) was the movie The Never Ending Story, the original. It is a fantasy movie about a warrior child, Atreyu who left on a journey to save the Land of Fantasia from destruction by the Nothing. The Nothing represents the loss of human hope and desire.
As a matter of fact, while communicating with you some time ago, I thought of you being similar to one of the character in the movie, “Morla the ancient one”, she is a turtle who speaks with the pronoun “we” instead of “I”, even though there is just one of her. She is a very unmotivated turtles with a nothing-matters-attitude, similar to yours.
She said things like: “We don’t even care whether or not we care”, and “Nothing matters”.
In one scene, Atreyu asks Morla to help him save the land from the Nothing: “If you don’t tell me, and the Nothing keeps coming, you will die too..! Morla answered: “Die? Now that, at least, would be something”.
She didn’t care, she really didn’t care. And she didn’t help Atreyu or herself.
anitaJune 27, 2020 at 12:16 pm #359768
She didn’t care, she really didn’t care. And she didn’t help Atreyu or herself.
this do sounds like me.
well i guess this seems it upJune 27, 2020 at 12:25 pm #359771
What do you mean by “this seems (sums) it up”?
anitaJune 27, 2020 at 1:47 pm #359779
You are not Morla the ancient one, a fictional old turtle. You are a young man who still desires, right underneath. And if only carrying on your desires was not so difficult and maybe impossible, and if there was a guarantee at the end of all the hard work required, then you would have gone for what you desire, in real life.
I am okay with you not going on an adventure journey, like in the movie. You don’t have to. I am okay with you staying where you are, doing nothing much, as long as you do have peace of mind, mostly. Good night, Murtaza. It is almost midnight, your time.
anitaJune 28, 2020 at 11:50 am #359849
I am okay with you not going on an adventure journey, like in the movie. You don’t have to. I am okay with you staying where you are, doing nothing much, as long as you do have peace of mind,
thank you. the best thing i did was to just quit life. i talked to many people and they always blame me for wanting this. for wanting just to live. i dont want no woman no money no accomplishments. and im not hurting anyone. but of course people seem to think that there feelings/thoughts/mindset etc. are universal. and just because they did it everyone can.June 28, 2020 at 1:16 pm #359854
You are welcome. I agree with you, that you did the best thing for yourself, under the circumstances, with the cards of life that you were dealt with. And like you wrote, you are not hurting anyone by not pursuing money, accomplishments and a woman.
“people seem to think that their feelings/ thoughts/ mindset etc. are universal”- they don’t have the right to pressure you or force their feelings, their thoughts, their values, their mindset on you.
I don’t have that right either, of course. And at this point, taking in all that I know about you, I am okay with your feelings, your thoughts and your mindset.