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PeterParticipant
The great thing about having no-thing is that it contains all things.
“Always we begin again.” – St Benedict
The realty of each breath is that it is a moment of both a death and rebirth. With each breath we empty ourselves and start again.
“The Rule teaches that if we take control of our lives, if we are intentional and careful in how we spend the hours of each irreplaceable day, if we discipline ourselves to live in a balanced and thankful way, we will create from our experiences, whatever they may be, the best possible life. ” John McQuiston – Always We Begin Again
The unexpected is always upon us. And of all the gifts arrayed before me, this one thought at this moment in my life is the most precious. And so, we begin again. – Feast of Love
PeterParticipantHi Nirvair
I have a friend that is certain that she can remember many past lives and like many who have the same experience spends a lot of time looking for ways to prove the experiences are “real”. (begs the question what makes a experience real? )
My opinion is that such searches to prove and explain the experiences are interesting but often misses the opportunity to learn something about ourselves from them.
A question I might ask myself is what blue eyes might mean to me. Blue is often symbol of spirituality and enlightenment but it is also a symbol for cold. Can “enlightenment” also leave one feeling cold?
I like what the bible has to say about such experiences – “But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart” There is a time to share such experiences but also a time to treasure them up. Words have a bad habit of diminishing a experiences, especially the words of others who are more then willing to tell you what qualifies as a real experience.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Peter.
August 2, 2018 at 6:59 pm in reply to: Can this relationship still work after NC for a while? #220105PeterParticipantHi Gracie
My opinion, for what its worth and having been that guy, would be to say that I don’t think its worth trying to reach out or playing the friend game when you know you want more.
There is some truth to the saying “If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, its yours forever. If it doesn’t, then it was never meant to be”. Leave the ball stay in this guys hands. He made the choice to end the relationship which I think you should honor. If you attempt to re-engage there will be the possibly he will dig in or use the experience (probably unconsciously) to keep you off balance and or create a co-dependent relationship.
There is the possibility that the two of you are attracted to each other in the hopes of healing each other. However, that requires a great deal of self knowledge from both sides, as well as a agreement to do the work.
If he does reach out to you be careful that you understand your boundaries and keep them, or you will find yourself in the same situation again and again
I recommend the book ‘How to be an Adult in Relationships’ if you want to challenge your ideas about your expectations of relationship.
When you are dating — unsuccessfully — it can feel like you’re repeating the same mistakes over and over again.
Humans are creatures of habit, and out of a subconscious desire to re-live and correct the issues from our past, we may seek out the same sort of partners and find ourselves in a destructive cycle.
Some people may do this because they have an unhealthy attachment style, which is the way they form bonds and connect to others.
One style is called “avoidant attachment,” according to psychotherapist Allison Abrams, our experiences in childhood shape our style of attachment, which then becomes the template for how we behave in future relationships.
“Insecure attachment styles, such as avoidant attachment, usually stem from some sort of early trauma,” she said. “When our needs aren’t met consistently by our primary caregivers, we form the belief that they won’t be met by any significant other, [and] that we can’t ever rely on others.”
Essentially, it is a defense mechanism, and people with avoidant attachment style may completely avoid relationships altogether, or keep anyone new they meet at a distance. They may sabotage their blossoming romances out of nowhere, because they are scared their new partner will leave them — so they get in there first.
“This is an unconscious attempt to make sure that they never again go through anything like they went through with their original caregiver,” Abrams said. “The irony is that by engaging in these defenses that we’ve learned we are actually recreating the very thing we were trying to avoid.”
Avoidant people find faults in anyone
Rather than letting a relationship grow naturally, an avoidant person tends to dwell on areas they are unsatisfied with. While people with healthy attachment styles are able to compromise with their partners and focus on the positives, avoidant people cannot. They zero in on minor flaws and imagine how they were happier being single, or how they might be better off finding someone else.
And they don’t just harm themselves. They often attract people with an anxious attachment style, who give up all their own needs to please and accommodate their partner.Anxiously attached people become incredibly unhappy and worried about being too much or too little for the person they are dating, and take everything incredibly personally.
August 2, 2018 at 1:26 pm in reply to: Can this relationship still work after NC for a while? #220079PeterParticipantSounds to me like the guy has issues with the idea of love and relationship in general.
For whatever reasons he’s not ready or willing to to work on a relationship. This is about him not you, and better you know now before spending anymore time on it. You can’t fix him. If you did get back together, my bet is that it will become one of those on again, off again, on again, off again…. relationships.PeterParticipantHi Kaledoscope: (Great name – mirrors and color whose reflections produce changing patterns… we are more then sum of our parts, more wondrous then we imagine ourselves to be. Note mirroring plays a important part in counselling… )
Counselling can become complex, what with transference and counter transference. The reality is therapists are human with there own stuff to work out. A good therapist will know when their stuff is getting in the way of “seeing” there clients. Actually, this noticing can provide clues to the therapist about what the client needs to address.
Anyway, its inevitable in a long-term counselling relationship for there to be a fall out. More often then not such “fallouts” are needed as part of the healing process. Life demands growth and sometimes counselling can become a to safe place that keeps us the same. When this happens, Life will challenge the relationship. In this case the consoling relationship is providing you with an opportunity to deal with your fear of confrontation. Imagine being fully honest with your therapist and telling him the concerns that you have mention in your post? How would you feel about yourself if you were able to talk about your concerns without fear of what the reply might be? There is nothing in what you said that is embarrassing or are even that confrontational for a professional.
As in all relationships there is always a desire of growth, for all involved, however there is also a desire that things stay the same. Noticing when the confrontation is present is a opportunity that can lead to a ‘awakening’
PeterParticipantAll of the methods mentioned in the rant can be helpful, however if the aim is enlightenment your likely to miss the target. Or not… as such practice tend to lead to the realisation that what your seeking you all ready have and so don’t need the practice. There is a zen story I like.
A senior monk and a junior monk were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The young woman asked if they could help her cross to the other side.
The two monks glanced at one another because they had taken vows not to touch a woman.
Then, without a word, the older monk picked up the woman, carried her across the river, placed her gently on the other side, and carried on his journey.
The younger monk couldn’t believe what had just happened. After rejoining his companion, he was speechless, and an hour passed without a word between them.
Two more hours passed, then three, finally the younger monk could contain himself any longer, and blurted out “As monks, we are not permitted a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?”
The older monk looked at him and replied, “Brother, I set her down on the other side of the river, why are you still carrying her?”
There are variations on the story. In one the student builds a raft to cross the river. Once across the master asks the student if, because the raft was useful, if he should to carry the raft with on his back as he continues the journey.
I think the lesson is that a student must always be prepared to let go of any teaching or practice once it has served its purpose. It is very easy to mistake the raft for the journey.
PeterParticipantThat in order to experience ‘enlightenment’ you first have to stop giving a darn about it.
A paradox of Enlightenment -Gabriel Gonsalves –
Multitudes of people follow some kind of spiritual path, but very few succeed in realizing the ultimate truth and become ‘enlightened’.
Why is that?
When you feel angry, confused, vulnerable and upset, you go to a doctor or psychiatrist, a priest, a therapist, a coach, a healer, a specialist, a social worker, a palm reader, or an astrologer.
You take up religion, are born again, get into philosophy, become an agnostic, an atheist, take the Insight or Landmark Seminars, tap your forehead with EFT.
You get all your chakras balanced, your DNA activated, try some reflexology, some kinesiology, go for ear acupuncture, do iridology, hot stone therapy, get healed with lights, sounds, and crystal bowls.
You meditate, chant mantras, drink green tea. Try magic mushrooms and psychedelics. Get Reiki, try the Pentecostals, do the Rosary, breathe in fire, speak in tongues, pray, implore, declare and beseech.
You get centered, heart-centered, learn NLP, try actualizations, visualizations, feelingizations, study psychology, do a past life regression, join a Jungian or dream interpretation group.
You see your homeopath, chiropractor, naturopath. Or try transactional analysis, discover your Enneagram or Myers-Briggs type, get your meridians balanced, join a Conscious Something group.
You take antidepressants, get tranquilizers, get some hormone shots, flu shots, try tissue salts, have your minerals analyzed and balanced. Take Rescue Remedy. Learn astral projection and listen to messages from the Galactic Federation.
You become a vegetarian. Give up sugar. Eat only cabbage. Try macrobiotics, go organic, go raw, non-dairy, eat no GMO’s. Try fasting and intermittent fasting. Take amino acids and anti-acids. Go to health spas. Cook with exotic ingredients. Eat fermented foods. Take brain enzymes, Bach flower remedies, eat only grapefruit.
You meet with Native American medicine men, do a sweat lodge. Connect with the Pleiades. Go on a vision quest. Find your Animal Guide or Spirit Guide and build them an altar. You invoke the spirit of your ancestors, the four directions, the spirits of the wild, feed elementals you can’t see.
You go to the Amazon jungle and visit a shaman. Go on a retreat. Sing tribal chants. Relive past lives. Visit the underworld and retrieve your soul. Scream primal screams. Take medicine plants, ayahuasca, peyote, San Pedro, Santa Maria, iboga. Hold hands in a circle, sing, drum, dance and get high.
You go to India. Try to find your soulmate, eat, pray, and love. Find a new guru. Take off your clothes. Get blessed by Baba Somebody. Swim in the Ganges naked. Stare at the sun, howl at the moon. Shave your head. Eat with your fingers, get really messy, take cold showers. Sing Kirtan songs with people you’ve never met.
You try hypnotic regression. Time-line therapy. Do psychodrama. Punch pillows. Write letters to your parents and to your future self. Join a marriage encounter group, discover your Imago. Go to Unity. Go to Agape. Go to Bible study groups. Write affirmations and stick them to a mirror. Make a vision board.
You get re-birthed. Read Angel Cards. Do the Tarot cards. Get into the occult. Study magic. Work with a kahuna. Join a mystery school. Learn a secret handshake. Try color therapy, swim with the dolphins, listen to subliminal and paraliminal tapes. Study Zen and cast the I-Ching.
You take a shamanic journey. Walk El Camino de Santiago. Go on pilgrimage. Visit Mecca. Walk barefoot. Walk on your hands and knees. Hug a tree. Sit on a mountain, watch the sunrise and sunset…
I’m so tired.
The paradox of Enlightenment
That in order to experience ‘enlightenment’ you first have to stop giving a darn about it, and instead get shamelessly real and connected to what makes you fully human and connected to the humanity in others. All this, so that you can eventually surrender it and rise into the Lightness of your Divine being.
In other words, the path towards the light requires you to first love and embrace ALL of your humanity – this means your light, your darkness as well as your shadows – BEFORE you can even attempt to become an ‘enlightened’ being. – ‘Enlightenment’ is an inside-job. Gonsalves
Thought that was kind of funny. I’m not sure what this Enlightenment is. I suspect its one of those things that if you think you have it, you don’t.
PeterParticipantThanks Neville
Of course, my “Spiritual Team” selected the theme of “thinking to much” for my soul to live out. So I’m fulfilling my purpose. ?
“Open your mind and your life and be like an empty bucket waiting for the gap between your thoughts to fill you with infinite wisdom” I like that, and to fulfill my purpose I must ask, how thought, action and wisdom relate to each other. If I think about what is filling the bucket do I change the substance of what is in the bucket, yet if I do not think about it and make it conscious what is learned, what is wisdom?
The first meaning of emptiness is called “emptiness of essence,” which means that phenomena [that we experience] have no inherent nature by themselves.” The second is called “emptiness in the context of Buddha Nature,” which sees emptiness as endowed with qualities of awakened mind like wisdom, bliss, compassion, clarity, and courage. Ultimate reality is the union of both emptinesses – Ari
- This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantForgiveness is an Art which is more for the person hurt then the person that has perpetrated the hurt.
I like what Clarissa Pinkola Estes (Women Who Run With the Wolves) had to say about their being Four Stages of Forgiveness
Four Stages of Forgiveness
- To forego—to leave it alone
- To forebear—to abstain from punishing/vengeance
- To forget—to aver from memory, to refuse to dwell
- To forgive—to abandon the debt
Note. Many people hold on to hurt because they feel that as long as they do the one that hurt them will hurt and be accountable. It is important to remember that forgiveness does not mean that the person that hurt us is no longer accountable. Holding someone accountable is not the same as punishing or vengeance or even justice. Accountability is an attribute of Love. If you steal from me, I can forgive you – detach my sense of self from the experience – while holding you Accountable by taking back my key.
http://www.stlcw.com/Handouts/Four_Stages_of_Forgiveness.pdf
PeterParticipantI’ve often wondered… what if ones “Soul Contract” theme chosen was to struggle with the question of meaning and purpose. In such a case a person would be fulfilling their purpose by not knowing their purpose.
With regards to the idea of Soul Contract on the one hand I can see the benefit of believing that I choose to experience the theme of suffering/depression in this life time. (the exercise of free will happening before consciousness) What can I do I chose it might as well go all in and experience it fully without worrying about it? Ah but the theme includes the experience of wanting to overcome the depression as that’s part of the experience of suffering. There is no way out. No free will, all the choices made before consciousness.
The image that comes to mind is a soul voyeur going on vacation in an experience simulator, the avatar a play thing of the soul. Perhaps life in the spirit realm is boring and the soul longs to feel something, so anything it feels pain or joy is good but I find no comfort in that.
PeterParticipantEssentially as you implied the answer to such questions is always “you”.
You are the answer to the question of Purpose. As such every experience is Purpose and Meaning, even the experience of questioning and seeking purpose.
“We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.” – T. S. Eliot We seek for purpose and meaning out there somewhere, over the rainbow… never noticing that we are it… until we do
PeterParticipantDo you have any thoughts as to what is behind your depression? Is it mostly brain chemistry, existential angst, traumatic past event, a little of everything.?
For the longest time I was depressed about being depressed. Depression is like that, it likes to work its way in like a cancer and reproduce it self.
In the words of Sun Tzu “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
That said I don’t like looking at depression as an enemy as that tends to set up resistance and depression is very good a using resistance and turning it against ourselves. We are after all resisting ourselves. As Walk Helly said “We have met the enemy and he is us”. You don’t want to become your own enemy and work against yourself… which if your depressed you probably are. Still the advice holds true, if you know your self and know your depression you need not fear.
Today I might say I have a relationship with depression. There is, I think, a time for all things even depression however I no longer fear it and not fearing it know its time will pass.
PeterParticipantHi Mary
Came across the following and thought about your posts. I’m of two minds myself, I understand the advice of being in moment and I know its a truth, but sometimes I want to scream when I hear it.. Perhaps your in a similar space as the reference “wherever you go there your stay/are” – its the solution and the problem
It is one of life’s greatest ironies that, no matter how much we want to be different, wherever we go, there we are. There’s just no getting away from ourselves. Go on holiday — there we are. Win the lottery — there we are. Move overseas — there we are. Wherever we look, we are looking out of the same pair of eyes; whatever we do, it’s still the same body doing it.
In the attempt to get away from being with ourselves, we search for something or someone to make us happy; the grass constantly appears greener someplace else. But in every relationship and every situation, there we are again.
Meanwhile, our mind is like a drunken monkey doing its best to distract us by jumping from thought to fear to drama to anything that will keep us trapped in an endless round of worries and concerns… “What if this happens… what if I fail… if only it could be like it was in the past… what will the future be like… I have to to get to a psychic for help…”
We are like a musk deer that has a wonderful smell in its belly yet searches the forest for that smell. Wherever it goes, there’s the smell — but the deer can’t see it, so it has no idea where the smell is to be found. In the same way, we believe happiness is somewhere — anywhere —other than here, and spend all our time looking for it, without realizing it is already with us.
“If you aren’t in the moment, you are either looking forward to uncertainty, or back to pain and regret. —Jim Carrey
All we have to do is stop. Just stop. For right now, this very moment, is all there is. Nothing else is going on. Nothing else is happening. There’s nowhere to go. And being right here with ourselves is exactly where we want to be, because when we are fully here, this moment becomes the most precious, delightful, enjoyable and outrageous moment there is.
It is immensely liberating to realize that nothing more is required of us than to just be fully here now. What a relief! Finally, we can really experience this reality just as it is, without expectation, prejudice or longing. Someone once asked Ed if he had ever experienced another dimension. He replied, “Have you experienced this one?” Have you noticed the dew on a spider’s web, the taste of honey or your own heartbeat?
“Life is now. There was never a time when your life was not now, nor will there ever be.” —Eckhart Tolle
When we are fully present, the world in which we live becomes extraordinary, as if being seen and heard and touched for the first time, for we are without preconceived ideas or desires. There is just the experience. Like a child making the unknown known, we are simply with what is, while also impelled to know it more intimately, to explore and understand, even to become it.
Such presence defies our limited understanding of the world; it takes us out of the logical, rational mind and into a place of just being, without judgment or idea of what should be. Stepping out of the thinking and conceptual mind, however, doesn’t mean stepping into nowhere or nothing; it doesn’t mean that there is no connection to a worldly reality. We do not become disconnected or cast adrift. Rather, it is stepping into sanity and, more importantly, into even greater connectedness.
As evolution does not go backwards, so life can never be the way it was. Being in the moment means having the courage to know we will never be someone other than who we are and that who we are is absolutely wonderful, just as we are. Simply being still in this moment, without attachment to or thought of before or after, invites a deep sense of completion, that there really is nowhere else we need to go. It is impossible to think of somewhere else as being better — the grass is vividly green exactly where we are. – Ed and Deb Shapiro
PeterParticipantHi Jayde
I very much relate to being in the gray area as I find my self torn between wanting to fully engage in life and retreat from it. I suspect all things have their time
Like Joseph Campbell I suspect my “religion” is underlining books. I have always found the right book showing up when I thinking about some question. The book I’m currently reading is by Eric Weiner called ‘Man Seeks God’. He is a travel writer that sets out on a quest to answer some of his own questions he has about his own experiences, or lack of experience. He ends up spending some time in various communities around the world asking some of the questions you may be asking. It very well written and funny. The humor is self deprecating as he is very respectful to others thinking and experiences.
I wonder if you might also enjoy the book. The writer doesn’t go overly deep but he is very well read so there are a great number of passages to underline 🙂 … Why do I think you might enjoy the book… I think like me your wondering where you fit. Where you might feel as safe to be yourself as you are when your with your boyfriend. And why it is you find your self annoyed by those that don’t get it and those that seem to have all the answers. Just a thought
Really like your intention of doing something you truly love each day and fulfilling your soul’s needs. I suspect that will take you were you cannot yet even imagine you wanted to be.
PeterParticipantOne of the challenges of realizing or awaking to the reality that “You” are not your ego, you are not your body, you are not your thinking, you are not your emotions… is a detachment from life. If I am no-thing, no-thing matters and as you mentioned that is the Ego attempting to identify it self with an experience of nothing mattering. If “I” am no thing “I” am nothing, and things only matter when “I” matter, when I am ego. – I remain my ego even as I “know” I am not my ego and around and around we go.
On one level this is a problem of language. How can we reflect one our experiences, explain them to ourselves and other without referring to “I” even though we know the Self is not “I. The result is more often then not that instead of a healthy detachment to experiences we fall into indifference to our experiences and depression.
You had the realization that “taking things personal does not make sense” a kind of detachment that isn’t. What you are describing of your experience is not detachment but indifference. If you (the “I”) don’t care (indifference) about an outcome why bother working towards any goal – your ego asks.
It’s a challenge. The Art of Detachment is to be fully engaged in life, working towards goals that match your truths (as you know then to be in the moment), while not attaching your sense self and identity to the actions or outcomes. i.e. I am a good or bad person because I do this, I am a good person because I hit what I was aiming at, a bad person because I missed.
You can and get to care about the action and outcomes; however, the outcomes or actions do not define you. In this way you open yourself to play. Sure, what you understand as your truths today may change and with them the direction of your actions – learn better, do better – you get to laugh.
In the problem of opposites, which we must come to terms with, is how we measure, judge, divide and doings so make conscious (awaken) is that reality that the opposites don’t exist. Opposites are not independent sides of a coin that can be separated. As we become conscious of detachment we become conscious of attachment. Awaking to the light is also an awakening to the darkness. True Light will always defeat the darkness however light requires energy – movement. Keep moving. The intention of a practice is to not practice, the intention of seeking is finding (yet how many “seekers” would ever label themselves finders).
Once you ask a question you cannot unasked it. Ignorance is bliss but you can’t go back. Frankly life is easier when we identify with our ego and suffer. Righteous anger and taking everything personal can really get the juices flowing. Sure, in the end its exhausting and unhealthy but it can feel so good in the moment. You awakened to the realization that you are not your ego and can’t go back. It’s a loss, even if it leads to becoming more authentic, every loss needs to properly mourned.
Did any of that make sense?
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