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Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality?

HomeForumsRelationshipsShould a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality?

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Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 166 total)
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  • #430681
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tommy,

    I came here with all these lengthy posts because I am searching for an excuse to forgive her and take her back because my brain is already aware that I should leave but my heart still loves her. I do not hate her but I hate what she has done. I just wanted to hold on to hope that there was some chance of fixing this issue.

    Paradoxy

    #430685
    Tommy
    Participant

    Sorry ParadoxMusic, you want to separate the woman from her actions because you believe you love her. You already know she is not the one for you. It is time to move forward. Find a real woman you can love and that can love you. Hanging on to her will only break your heart more when the curtain does finally come down.

    #430691
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Brick wall is not saying that the person is dumb, it’s saying that the person refuses to listen. It feels like I am talking to a wall. And even if the person wants to love and respect to return, you have to also realize that all this namecalling only occurred at the VERY EDGE of my patience, which would be hours or days or even weeks of continuous arguing over the same thing. Everyone has a limit to their patience, no matter how much they love the person.

    “She shouldn’t listen to anything you say for as long as what you say to her includes verbal abuse from time to time.” So it is okay for her to be disrespectful to me through her actions but it is not okay for me to respond with verbal disrespect AFTER HOURS/DAYS/WEEKS of continuous arguing?

    “I don’t think that you listened to my advice in this 5- page thread, not yet.” You just proved my point lol. Even if you don’t call me a brick wall, you already feel that I haven’t listened to your advice. That is what I am trying to show you.

    “You didn’t yet take responsibility for verbally abusing her, you’ve spoken from both sides of your mouth in this regard: saying that you were abusive and then saying that if she is a brick wall, then calling her a brick wall is not abusive.” I was ASKING you if calling her a brick wall is still considered abusive if she behaves like a brick wall. I was not making a claim. I was asking because I was under the impression that though I know my actions appear verbally abusive, I assumed it would be justified cause of what she was doing. Asking for clarification does not mean I am not taking responsibility for my actions.

    “If I called my partner names, dumb, a brick wall, etc., and repeatedly, if I was arrogant, dismissive and abusive to him, I wouldn’t expect him to be loyal to me.” Clearly you are not reading what I wrote. I said I only became verbally abusive after HOURS/DAYS/WEEKS of constantly arguing to the point of reaching the edge of my patience. That means the verbal abuse is not something I do all the time. I also said that I had CONSIDERABLY REDUCED how verbally abusive I was after she told me that she didn’t like it. But did she change her ways despite telling her I didn’t like it? And most of the fighting and verbal abuse started AFTER SHE CHEATED. So your statement above is not appropriate for the situation.

    “Uncontrolled anger is behind much of interpersonal abuse and crime, crimes of passion, it’s called.” My anger has always been controlled, that is why this relationship lasted 1.5 years because I WAS THE ONE FORGIVING. If I had uncontrolled anger, she would have left a long time ago. And like I said before, the only time when I became verbally abusive is after HOURS/WEEKS/DAYS after CONTINUOUS FIGHTING. If that doesn’t show you how patient I am, then idk what will. I’ve been the one staying calm trying to negotiate with her while she continued to blame me and etc for the way she was feeling and for how she behaved. My energy is being drained because it is being used up in being patient, I am using up my energy as I control my anger.

    “The second part of this quote is one of the times that you have taken an exception to speaking the truth.” So you think I have not been pouring out love to her. All I am going to say is this, from the third person’s perspective, you won’t be able to see the things I have done, my attempts at fixing myself for her, being able to understand how she feels and etc. All I know is that I did my best, and my love for her was greater than the love she had for me.

    “This is an accusation some abusive people make on a regular basis, accusing the abused of paying too much/ disproportional attention to the abuse. It’s a false accusation.” Explain to me how I am such a horrible abuser just cause I became verbally abusive at the end of my patience which occurred HOURS/DAYS/WEEKS after CONTINUOUS FIGHTING. I told you what terms I used in my “verbal abuse” I did not tell you how often this “verbal abuse” happened. Cause if it was as often as you describe it to be, my “verbal abuse” would be the number one reason why B would cheat on me or even want to leave. In reality, my so-called “verbal abuse” is one of the smallest factors that play into how she behaves and she has already admitted that.

    “What I see in your past (quotes right above) is severe verbal abuse perpetrated on you by your parents, abuse severe enough for a neighbor to notice and threaten to call social services. I see you minimizing their abuse. I see you suppressing your anger at your parents and expressing it at yourself.. and at a woman in a movie, enjoying the portrayal of her violent death.” How I felt 4 years ago does not define me now, because that was a phase of extreme depression and I have gotten out of that phase especially since I am no longer with my parents and it is only coming back now as a result of the break up. So do not let my past deceive you or your judgement.

    “The hate predated you meeting B, she did not create your hate.” Anita, I already told you that I do not redirect my hate to other people. I do not do that because I know what it feels like to have anger/hate redirected to me. I am literally repeating myself here.

    I do not call my responders names because LIKE I STATED BEFORE, I have a lot of patience and understanding, which you have still failed to realize despite how long we have been having this conversation. The very fact that I have not called you names is proof enough that you are wrong about assuming that I have uncontrolled anger and that I am verbally abusive. I argue because you are not getting the facts accurate, which makes your response not 100% correct regarding my situation. I have already thought out all of the things you have said and I know it will work in most situations but not in mine specifically. EVEN THEN, I am learning as I converse with you, which is why I asked you questions to clarify what you are saying about me being verbally abusive. In each of the arguments, I do not exactly say that you are completely wrong about what you are saying, I allow the evidence to prove it for you.

    Look at the conversations that Tee and I have versus the conversations that you and I have, do you see the drastic difference between conversations with her versus you? Tee was able to understand the situation better than you could and show me exactly where the issues lie whereas you have not because you have not factored in the extra details that I stated to you in each of the arguments, such as the fact that my so-called verbal abuse only occurred after a fight has been going on for a LONG PERIOD OF TIME, which is evidence for how much patience I have, which also proves that this so-called verbal abuse is NOT something that happens all the time. Despite how much I appear to be arguing with Tee, it is more evident that I am learning more from the things she said compared to things you have said as she is able to understand the situation better than you.

    No disrespect but I don’t think I want a hug from someone who doesn’t even understand why they are even hugging.

    Paradoxy

     

    #430692
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tommy,

    I know Tommy, I have already broken up with her, I am just working on the process of moving on.

    Paradoxy

    #430693
    anita
    Participant

    April 6, 2024, Paradoxy to anita:  “I have a lot of patience and understanding, which you have still failed to realize despite how long we have been having this conversation. The very fact that I have not called you names is proof enough that you are wrong about assuming that I have uncontrolled anger and that I am verbally abusive. I argue because you are not getting the facts accurate… Look at the conversations that Tee and I have versus the conversations that you and I have, do you see the drastic difference between conversations with her versus you? Tee was able to understand the situation better than you could and show me exactly where the issues lie whereas you have not because you have not factored in the extra details that I stated to you in each of the arguments, such as the fact that my so-called verbal abuse only occurred after a fight has been going on for a LONG PERIOD OF TIME, which is evidence for how much patience I have, which also proves that this so-called verbal abuse is NOT something that happens all the time. Despite how much I appear to be arguing with Tee, it is more evident that I am learning more from the things she said compared to things you have said as she is able to understand the situation better than you. No disrespect but I don’t think I want a hug from someone who doesn’t even understand why they are even hugging. Paradoxy”.

    anita to Paradoxy, April 6, 2024: reading the above makes me feel anxious, sad and angry, the many hours of my efforts to help you ending with your efforts to hurt me.

    Nonetheless, I wish you healing and a life where you  get to Love and Be Loved in return. Goodbye.

    anita

     

    #430733
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    You got offended by the facts that I stated? Or you got offended by the way I stated those facts?

    Don’t you think it is disrespectful for you to say that I am a verbal abuser with uncontrolled anger and that the only reason why I do not call my responders names here is cause of some website regulations instead of my actual personality and my patience?

    Don’t you think it is disrespectful for you to be here accusing me of loving to argue and fight when all I did was clarify some facts that you got wrong so that you can formulate your advice better?

    Don’t you think it is disrespectful for you to call me a verbal abuser when I AM THE ONE who came here ADMITTING that I have used disrespectful terms sometimes when I was really really tired of her bs and I admitted that I know that what I said was wrong and that I regret it and that I have been working on fixing it by considerably reducing it? I even told you that this “verbal abuse” of mine is not even that common. Yes I have used disrespectful terms against B but those cases are like once in every 4 months or something despite the number of fights we had. My so-called “verbal abuse” does not happen often enough for me to be considered an abuser. Fine, even if we say that verbal abuse is still verbal abuse, you have to accept that everyone has a limit to their patience, EVEN YOU have a limit to your patience, as proven by how you are behaving RIGHT NOW but I cannot call you hot-tempered for that, cause that would be stupid and unfair. I extremely regret the things I said to B, but please, please, PLEASE, I beg you to understand how extreme the situation became before I ran out of patience and entered the verbal abuse phase.

    Don’t you think it is disrespectful for you to be here giving advice and coming to conclusions by INTENTIONALLY ignoring the things that are said and refusing to allow some facts to be corrected when IT IS MY LIFE that I am describing? A very good example would be when you ignore me when I REPEATED COUNTLESS TIMES that I entered the verbal abusive phase AFTER HOURS/DAYS/WEEKS OF NONSTOP ARGUING. Obviously, just like it is PROVEN by this thread, when you are arguing for over a month about the same issue, you will eventually run out of patience. But do you see me being disrespectful to my responders? Even in your case, all I stated were facts, such as that Tee’s advice was BETTER than yours because she understands the situation BETTER than you. Where is the disrespect in that? Don’t you think I get tired every time you misinterpret something that I said? I asked you to UNDERSTAND the anger that I felt when B was behaving the way she did. But it looks like even if you didn’t understand my anger then, you are now experiencing that same sadness and anger I felt when dealing with her, as shown by you stating “reading the above makes me feel anxious, sad and angry, the many hours of my efforts to help you ending with your efforts to hurt me.” Just like how you are feeling anxious, sad and angry after spending hours trying to “help” me, I felt THE EXACT SAME EMOTIONS when I had to argue with B for prolonged periods of time. See NOW, you are able to understand what lead me to become “verbally abusive” in that moment, even though I regret doing so.

    Don’t you think it is also disrespectful you to judge me based on how I felt FOUR YEARS AGO, despite the fact that I told you that I GREW OUT OF THAT PHASE? It is only coming back NOW as a result of the pain caused by the break up.

    I can list more things that I said which YOU INTENTIONALLY IGNORED but you keep bringing it back like I didn’t already just explain it to you.

    Don’t you think it is disrespectful for you to assume that I am not taking responsibility for my mistake just cause I asked you to clarify what you are trying to say about my so-called “verbal abuse”?  I quote myself saying “So basically, you are saying that I am indeed verbally abusive. But I want to understand, is it still verbally abusive if the things that are said are actually true?” That was a QUESTION, which shows that I GENUINELY WANTED TO UNDERSTAND what you were trying to say. And you responded by saying “You didn’t yet take responsibility for verbally abusing her, you’ve spoken from both sides of your mouth in this regard: saying that you were abusive and then saying that if she is a brick wall, then calling her a brick wall is not abusive.” It is very obvious here that you clearly misunderstood what I said. You assumed that I was making a CLAIM that calling her a brick wall is not abusive, when all I did was ask you a QUESTION.

    Please, Anita or anyone, please tell me if I am the one misunderstanding here. I am more than willing to learn from my mistakes as all I have is respect for you Anita. Even to the point where I kept apologizing to you Anita for sounding like a “brat”. I do appreciate your help, all I am saying is that Tee’s help was more beneficial for me because she was able to understand the situation better than you and she was able to point out things that I had not thought of. I don’t mind receiving a motherly hug from you, but how can you expect me to receive a sympathetic hug from someone who doesn’t even sympathize with what I am going through? I hope you realize that I meant no disrespect. I know you do not want to keep talking to me, but I will still look forward to your response Anita as I see you as a caring individual with more wisdom than me, but just like how I respect you, I want you to respect me too and not misinterpret the things that I have said.

    Paradoxy

     

     

    #430737
    Tommy
    Participant

    [quote quote=430692]Dear Tommy, I know Tommy, I have already broken up with her, I am just working on the process of moving on. Paradoxy[/quote]

    So moving on means to stop thinking about her. Which means this thread is over. Stop, do not continue. Giving time to heal all wounds. Spend less and less time thinking about her or having feeling for her. Let her go. Over time, you will think less and less of her and the healing will begin.

    Tommy

    #430739
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tommy,

    Yea I will stop.

    Paradoxy

    #430750
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    Should have seen the red flags when she was dry and cold and behaving weird in the first couple days of our relationship.

    What did she do in the first days of your relationship?

    I went back and re-read your first post, about how your relationship started. Well, it started with her initiating the flirtation, making seductive and over-the-top statements (such as suggesting that you could be her pretend husband, after barely having met you!), and sending you a photo of herself with pouting lips.

    We were casually talking with the group of friends there when the topic shifted about my relationship life and I admitted that I’ve never been loved by anyone before. And she responded by saying that I could be her pretend husband. I played along at first but her saying that caught my attention.

    We started to text more often and eventually she sent me a picture of herself pouting her lips to give a kiss.

    Her style with you, right from the start, was very seductive. There was no shame or modesty in her approach. It was pretty over-the-top to suggest, after only talking to you once or twice, that you should be her “pretend husband.” To me, it shows someone who is pretty uninhibited, and very confident in her ability to get any guy she wants.

    The following is what I think happened in those early days of you interacting with her:

    Her words “pretend husband” caught your attention. You suddenly started thinking about her: “I kept reminding R [your friend] about what she said cause it made me feel butterflies in my stomach.”

    “Pretend husband” was the keyword that got your imagination going, and I think what happened is that you started thinking she could be “the one”, your future wife, the only person you’ll ever love in your life (because that’s what your father told you: that you should only love one woman).

    And so, in your mind, she became a serious candidate to fill in that place – the place of your faithful wife and “queen” – before you even knew anything about her.

    Then she sent you a photo with pouting lips, which sparked your imagination further: “my heart was pounding. Imagine being noticed by the most beautiful woman in the vicinity and receiving a picture like that.

    And then she offered to kiss you, for “educational” purposes: “she asked if I have ever kissed anyone before, and I told her that I haven’t. And she asked me if I wanted to try it, but I told her I didn’t want to kiss someone who I am not in a relationship with. She understood that but she was still offended, and she went home.”

    And then the next day she admitted she had feelings for you, after which you immediately brought your parents into the equation (thinking that she is a serious wife candidate):

    I told her that there is a possibility that my parents won’t approve of her and I do not want to be in a relationship where my partner is constantly worried about me leaving her cause of my parents. She said she can handle it and I told her that I will only be in a relationship if she is willing to handle the consequences of us dating. She agreed,

    You told her that your parents might be a problem because they might not approve of her, and she said she can handle it. You also told her that she needs to accept the consequences of dating you, and she agreed to accept those consequences. BTW have you explained to her why your parents might not approve of her? Have you clarified early on what the consequences of dating you are, so that she knows what you expect of her?

    In any case, she agreed to everything, and you probably thought that she accepted your “rules of the game”, i.e. how she should behave as your girlfriend and your future wife. And that’s what made you accept her advances: you allowed her to kiss you and then it led to everything else. And when she made you breakfast and lunch the night after your first sexual encounter, you were “sold”. You were in heaven, believing she is your perfect future wife: “I was very much in love with her and I prayed that she was the one I would be with forever.”

    So basically, you fell in love with the idea of her: that she will be the perfect wife that you and your parents had in mind for you.

    In reality, you knew very little about her: she was obviously very beautiful and sexy, she was willing to cook for you (which you find very important in a woman), and she told you that she agreed with the rules of the game (i.e. how a good girlfriend and a good future wife should behave). You thought: bingo!

    The problem is that she fooled you. Because she doesn’t agree with the rules of the game. She certainly doesn’t accept the consequences of dating you – such as wearing less revealing clothes, not hugging other men while wearing a bikini, not posting sexy photos on social media. But that’s not even the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that she didn’t accept even the basic rules for a loving, committed relationship: no lying and no cheating.

    Just as an aside, not every man would be bothered by his girlfriend/wife wearing sexy outfits and showing her attributes (some even like it, such as those who like to show off their trophy wife – for them it’s a sign of being superior to other men).

    However, every man would be bothered by his girlfriend lying to him, hiding an ex in her house, and sleeping with someone for money.

    So B not only didn’t fit your particular vision of a loving girlfriend/wife (which might be more old-fashioned) – she didn’t fit the general, widely accepted vision of what constitutes a loving and caring partner/wife.

    And that’s why I am sorry to say, but B was “a perfect angel from heaven” only in your imagination, Paradoxy. It is a vision that exists only in your mind. You wanted her to fit that vision, and you have been trying to educate her how to fit that vision.

    But she is vehemently opposing it, she doesn’t want it. Based on everything you said about her, her nature is very different from that vision: she is not the type to wear modest clothes and hide her sex appeal. She likes getting men’s attention and being desired by men. Even with you, from day 1, she was bold and seductive.

    So I think you’d need to open your eyes to her real nature vs. the idealized image that you still have in your mind. You need to stop wanting to fit her into your vision. Because she is miles away from it, even opposite of it.

    Even when she apologizes for not fitting your vision (e.g. for wearing revealing clothes, posting sexy pictures on social media etc,), she doesn’t really mean it. Because she keeps doing it, no matter how many times you’ve asked her not to. This to me is a proof that she is rejecting your vision, even if she pretends she doesn’t.

    So I believe those are fake apologies, aimed at keeping you interested. Because obviously, she wants to stay with you, she doesn’t want to let you go.

    I must admit that the newest information that you’ve shared about her (that you have been giving her a lot of money) made me suspicious of her true motives:

    she still has my belongings such as laptop, mouse and a lot of money which she cannot return as she is not financially stable right now and her work requires her to have my laptop as she cannot afford her own.

    You say she is working, and yet you are giving her a lot of money. I wonder why is that (if you don’t mind sharing)?

     

    #431445
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    In the first week of the relationship after we officially started dating, the red flags involved her dry texting that made me very upset cause I looked forward to texting her everyday and she also initiated multiple break ups in that one week due to reasons such as still having feelings for her ex and my age and other people’s opinion about us dating (her ex’s opinion tbh) etc. But she kept coming back apologizing the next day but that was also the period when she spent time with her ex half naked in the towel, which led to another break up later on. I should have paid attention to those red flags and left but I was blinded by love.

    Yea the “pretend husband” had me hooked cause no real life girl showed interest in me so the feeling of being “wanted” by someone blinded.

    “BTW have you explained to her why your parents might not approve of her? Have you clarified early on what the consequences of dating you are, so that she knows what you expect of her?” Yes I told her why my parents would not approve of her and the consequence of us dating would be that I would have to choose my parents over her when it is time for marriage if my parents reject her and she would have to endure the pain of me leaving her, and she agreed to that. But later on she admitted that she was not thinking straight when she agreed and she didn’t realize the toll it would take on her.

    Even though I initially fell in love with the “idea” of her, I made sure to learn everything about her, including her past, before I chose to go along with the relationship. The issue is that I was blinded by the love, which prevented me from evaluating her past properly and not realizing what type of person she really was. I don’t know if I said this already but she broke up with her first boyfriend just cause she couldn’t buy him a birthday present, even though he took care of her well. But I had ignored it because it happened when she was in high school.

    “In reality, you knew very little about her: she was obviously very beautiful and sexy, she was willing to cook for you (which you find very important in a woman), and she told you that she agreed with the rules of the game (i.e. how a good girlfriend and a good future wife should behave). You thought: bingo!” That is only some of the reasons why I thought she was perfect. She took care of me like a mother would, supporting my studying, helping me deal with the dandrives in my hair (which I didn’t like her doing because I didn’t want to ruin her hands but she was willing to do it, which I thought was amazing since most girls would feel disgusted to help) and she provided me with emotional comfort after dealing with my parents and life and she keeps offering to clean my room (which is something I admired about her but I never let her clean the room because it just felt wrong for me to let her do it as it is my responsibility). She did not seem to be a gold digger or anything as she always offered to help out in paying for things that involved both of us like dates and etc. She even bought me a matching date outfit for us, that I never even got to wear cause of our break up. Now I don’t even know what to do with it because it is not an outfit that you can wear casually and I don’t think it will be respectful if I wear it for a date with another girl in the future. My love language is touch and so I found it very comfortable when hugging/cuddling her especially after she showered which made her body feel cold while my body is warm and the temperature difference also made it more comfortable. I loved the childish way she behaved because it was the good type of annoying and I loved watching her sleep peacefully, making me wish I could spend the rest of my life with her. Overall, I just felt happy and at peace with her despite the annoying arguments we had. The list goes on but they convinced me that she was the right person cause I no longer felt alone and abandoned like I usually felt and being with her got me out of the depressive phase I was going through. Obviously I was blind and naive to reality.

    She already agreed that she would not wear the less revealing outfits, and barely did it too but she tends to have the habit of forgetting things too easily, and my constant forgiveness also played a factor as it indicated that it is okay to go against my wishes even if she agreed. Besides, she has a habit of considering things to be not as important as they actually are, which means she thought it was okay to have  a casual hug with men; she thought all she had to do was not partake in one of those more intimate hugs. And I didn’t mind since the casual hugs are quite rare, but she crossed the line when she went to the resort last month and did the things I told her not to do. She accepted the basic rules of a relationship, but she played along the gray line of the rules where there could take advantage of bending the rules. She still says that what she did in January is not cheating because we had broken up in that one week and that it is none of my business because we were not dating, which goes back to the title of this entire thread. She is taking advantage of the technicality and saying that she didn’t cheat and I don’t know how to argue with the technicality.

    I know that every man would not be bothered by his gf/wife wearing revealing outfits, but even then they have some rules like they can only wear those things when they are around so that they can protect their gf/wife from the disgusting men that exist today or some other rule for wearing revealing outfits. I promise you that most men will feel at least 1% uncomfortable knowing that other men are feasting their eyes on the gf/wife’s body when they wear revealing outfits.

    My gf might have lied to me and slept with another man, but I didn’t know all of that until a year already passed. So for most of the relationship, she never showed me her bad side. I was under the impression that she never lied and she never slept with another man. I just found out this year January that she slept with another man LAST YEAR January. This year January is when the relationship took a turn and everything started to get worse. That is when my imagination broke. But like I said, she uses the technicality that we had broken up during that one week to claim that she didn’t cheat on me.

    “You say she is working, and yet you are giving her a lot of money. I wonder why is that (if you don’t mind sharing)?” She has been constantly switching jobs due to various reasons ever since her manager fired her last year January. The jobs barely pay enough for a person to survive with and her employers all take advantage of her by overworking her while providing poor salary so she ends up quitting the job and I have to pay for her expenses until she gets her next job and she also does trading so we had both agreed to bring in some money to invest in trading, but every time we did, something bad happened like she got severally sick or she had to get her tooth removed or something and we lost a lot of money in trading too. She just got a stable job now so she doesn’t need my money anymore but she still asked for me to come in half way for a trading investment, which I gave her before the break up. But now that we broke up, I want that investment money to be returned but she had to use it for her hospital visit and so she is waiting for her paycheck to pay me back. I don’t see any manipulation/gold digging though because I saw the struggle myself so I know she was not taking advantage of me in that regard. But like I said earlier, if she is actually manipulating me, then she deserves an award for her acting skills cause I am very much convinced of her struggle.

    We have already established that I should leave her, and I have left her already. Now I want clarification on the main question of this entire thread: Is it still considered cheating if she only slept with the man AFTER we broke up? Even though preparations were made WITHOUT her knowledge?

    Paradoxy

    #431462
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    My gf might have lied to me and slept with another man, but I didn’t know all of that until a year already passed. So for most of the relationship, she never showed me her bad side.

    Okay, let’s see whether this is true….

    This is what you knew about her before Christmas 2022: you knew that she had feelings for her ex, due to which she broke up with you. You knew that during that time of being broken up, she took a half-naked picture with some guy, for whom she was claiming wasn’t her ex. So it would have been a 3rd guy that she was involved in, in a short time span (later you found out it actually was her ex). And you also knew that her ex was her housemate, and that she was hiding it from you, and when you found out about it, she claimed that it wasn’t something you needed to know.

    So just this behavior of hers: that she was hiding an ex in her house (for whom she admitted she had feelings for, and who had feelings for her too, because you said he was jealous of you), and then gaslighting you that you didn’t need to know about it – is a huge red flag. Not only a red flag, but something that warrants the red card (in soccer) – exclusion from the game. This behavior – which you were aware of before Christmas 2022 – should have been a reason to break up with her for good.

    But you fell for it, you fell for her gaslighting and her excuses. And you still thought very highly of her, even after that incident:

    excluding some moments where she does stupid things, she was actually a very good, loyal, loving, caring woman that any man would desire. She displayed all the characteristics that I was looking for in a good wife, excluding the stupid things that most woman do, like overthinking and not listening etc, which I did not mind cause I knew it was normal for women.

    You saw her as caring and loyal, when frankly, I think her behavior with you was obnoxious. It wasn’t something to be forgiven, especially the part where she arrogantly claimed that you didn’t need to know about the housing arrangement with her. But you still saw her as good, caring and loyal.

    And I think it’s because you were blinded by the idea of her as your perfect wife, and the physical aspect of your relationship (not just sexual, but also massage, touch, her taking care of your hair, cooking and cleaning for you). I think the idea of the “perfect wife”, which you adopted form your parents: cooking, cleaning, taking care of her husband’s physical needs, might have prevented you from seeing other aspects of her personality.

    What I want to say, Paradoxy, is that she did show you her bad side right from the start. But you didn’t see it. Because you were blinded.

    What happened later – her blaming you for having slept with another man for money – is also obnoxious. It’s not even the fact that she slept with another man that is the most disturbing – but that she is blaming you for it. That’s the most disturbing, in my opinion.

    And yet, you are not sure because:

    she uses the technicality that we had broken up during that one week to claim that she didn’t cheat on me.

    No, technically she didn’t cheat. But blaming you for it is so deeply unfair and emotionally abusive – that the only word that I have for it is: obnoxious.

    She is taking advantage of the technicality and saying that she didn’t cheat and I don’t know how to argue with the technicality.

    Dear Paradoxy, you might want to tell her something like “your behavior is obnoxious, you’ve hurt me so much with your lies and manipulation and blaming me for the things that are your fault, and I’ve had it. I don’t want to argue with you any more. We are done.”

    In other words, tell her the truth. Because it’s not important whether she technically cheated on you or not. What is important is her attitude: one of refusing to take responsibility for her actions and endlessly blaming you, accusing you and manipulating you.

    And what is also important is how you’re feeling with her: emotionally drained, exhausted, ruined (your words).

    Your emotions matter. Even if there is no logic behind them (and there is – there is a very fat, solid logic), you have the right to feel what you feel and refuse to engage with the person who is abusing you.

     

    #431503
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    Before Christmas 2022, I knew that she had feelings for her ex and that she took a half naked picture with her ex (the difference is that she told me it was not the ex that was living with her at the time but I found out this year that it was the ex that lived with her). All of this happened within the first week. Then in December I found out that the guy living with her was her ex, which she had not told me before.

    Yes these are red flags but I forgave the first two because it happened within the first week and I was still madly in love and she said it was a genuine mistake. She said that on the day she took the picture and video with her ex, she was actually in her towel with her ex’s sister who was removing her braids but when she got busy, the ex’s sister told the ex to remove the braids for her and so she just allowed him to remove her braids for her. Keep in mind that she was naked, but she had the towel wrapped around her body so her naked body is not visible to her ex. So I decided to forgive on the technicality because I just decided to consider it a careless mistake. But she lied to me about who the man was until I found out a year later. She said she lied because she didn’t want me to think I was a rebound. Lots of excuses not gonna lie, but my stupid self forgave her. As for what happened in December, I was upset that she didn’t tell me but I still forgave her because I still considered it a genuine mistake. So that is only 3 red flags that I had considered minor and did not let it affect my view of her cause I was stupid. And she didn’t gaslight me, she just said that she thought the fact that the guy was her ex felt unimportant to her but she admitted her mistake after the guy tried to attack me.

    But after that, she did not make any severe mistakes (other than calling my parents racists and causing a fight over a misunderstanding) that I was aware of until this year. So even though we had a lot of fights, they were not severe enough to be considered red flags by me. The prolonged peace made me assume that she was the best person for me. Besides, keep in mind that this is my very first relationship so I barely knew anything about red flags and green flags.

    “It wasn’t something to be forgiven, especially the part where she arrogantly claimed that you didn’t need to know about the housing arrangement with her” Yes I know it was not supposed to be forgiven but my inexperience caused me to label her mistakes as small mistakes anyone could make. And she did not arrogantly claim that I didn’t need to know, she claimed that the information was unimportant but she admitted that it was her mistake. So her apologies and excuses blinded me from the truth.

    “And I think it’s because you were blinded by the idea of her as your perfect wife, and the physical aspect of your relationship (not just sexual, but also massage, touch, her taking care of your hair, cooking and cleaning for you). I think the idea of the “perfect wife”, which you adopted form your parents: cooking, cleaning, taking care of her husband’s physical needs, might have prevented you from seeing other aspects of her personality.” Tee, I don’t know if you are forgetting but I already stated what I was looking for in a woman and it was not just physical needs. I already told you that my parents taught me that my wife should be my best friend, so it is not just the physical aspect. I just listed the physical things because those were the things I remembered at the time of writing the message. But I would say my inexperience and naiveness played a role in blinding me as even though I noticed the red flags, I just considered them as mistakes that anyone would do and believed that she would never repeat them.

    “What I want to say, Paradoxy, is that she did show you her bad side right from the start. But you didn’t see it. Because you were blinded.” Yes I was blind, but like I said, it was only three red flags, and it happened at the very beginning of the relationship so the prolonged periods of peace made it seem as though everything was perfect. And I DID SEE it, I was just stupid enough to consider the red flags as genuine mistakes. That is why we broke up each time she displayed the red flag, but I kept forgiving her and coming back.

    “It’s not even the fact that she slept with another man that is the most disturbing – but that she is blaming you for it. That’s the most disturbing, in my opinion.” I know, it disturbs me too, but she apologized and told me she was just ranting her feelings in anger and she didn’t mean it, and I forgave her because I have said harsh things when I was angry too.

    “No, technically she didn’t cheat. But blaming you for it is so deeply unfair and emotionally abusive” But she apologized, does that count? Should I forgive her for blaming me just cause she apologized for doing so?

    “Dear Paradoxy, you might want to tell her something like “your behavior is obnoxious, you’ve hurt me so much with your lies and manipulation and blaming me for the things that are your fault, and I’ve had it. I don’t want to argue with you any more. We are done.” We are already broken up, but we still kept in contact since she owes me a lot of stuff but she cut out the last part of me that cared for her when she told me that what happened to her in January was none of my business because it happened right after our break up and that she shouldn’t have even told me because we were not dating when it happened. That felt like a slap to my face cause what if she never told me? What if I never found out what happened in January? I would probably be still dating her, blind to her true nature.

    I may have a right to how I feel, but I just didn’t want to be unfair in the way I treat her cause of my emotions, such as the verbal abuse Anita kept telling me about. But I see things clearer now. I am just very disappointed that she was not the one for me.

    Paradoxy

    #431509
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    And she didn’t gaslight me, she just said that she thought the fact that the guy was her ex felt unimportant to her

    She already agreed that she would not wear the less revealing outfits, and barely did it too but she tends to have the habit of forgetting things too easily

    She has a habit of considering things to be not as important as they actually are, which means she thought it was okay to have a casual hug with men; she thought all she had to do was not partake in one of those more intimate hugs

    So if someone slaps you in the face, but then says “I thought it wasn’t important not to slap you in the face”, and then apologizes, and then keeps slapping you in the face, and apologizing… what would you think of this person?

    She has been slapping you in the face all this time, pretending she is oblivious, she “wasn’t thinking”, she “forgot”, she “didn’t think it was important”…. when in reality, she has been lying to you, manipulating you and making a fool of you.

    You believed that she is oblivious and too “stupid” to understand those things. And your belief (which you adopted from your parents) that women tend to “do stupid things” actually came as a boomerang: because you believed she too is innocent and stupid, rather than manipulative and calculating.

    Basically, the false belief that you have about women blinded you to the fact that this girl is manipulating you. That she isn’t some silly oblivious woman, whom you need to teach the right manners, but in fact a very good actress and a manipulator.

    she apologized and told me she was just ranting her feelings in anger and she didn’t mean it,

    She always apologizes, but then keeps doing it. That’s why I told you: those are fake apologies. She knows if she apologizes, you will be naive enough to forgive her, and it will all stay the same: she behaves the way she likes, and she gets to keep you as her financial backup.

    Because that’s what she’s been doing all this time: taking your money and even convincing you to invest in some financial schemes, in which you lost a lot of money (we lost a lot of money in trading too). And whatever little you earned, went to cover her health expenses (she got severally sick or she had to get her tooth removed or something).

    Now, after knowing the situation a bit better, I am almost sure that this girl doesn’t want to lose you because you are giving her money. You have been financially supporting her for most of the time that you were together. And she doesn’t have anyone else to support her, because it seems her father is not giving her money, and her aunt… well we know under what conditions she can get money from her aunt. So she depends on you financially. And that’s why she is so keen on keeping you around.

    She still says that what she did in January is not cheating because we had broken up in that one week and that it is none of my business because we were not dating

    You were breaking up and reconciling all the time. It was your pattern – you always reconciled after a few days or a week at most, haven’t you? You even broke up and reconciled around Christmas 2022, when you were visiting your parents, and she was visiting her aunt who lives in the same area. The reason for the breakup was that you asked her the gold-digger question, but a few days later you already reconciled:

    But a few days later we realized we could not live without each other and we got back together.

    So let’s put this into perspective: she knows you have a turbulent relationship, with constant breakups and reconciliations. But after one such breakups, which is similar to the others, and which is most likely only temporary, she suddenly starts feeling so “depressed” and “heart broken”, that she falls for her aunt’s evil plan and goes and prostitutes herself. For 3 days out of 7 that you were broken up. And then you reconcile and you travel back together to college (if I understood the chronology of the events well?). As if nothing happened.

    Go figure. I am actually having a hard time comprehending this. But what is for sure is that she wasn’t too affected by her stint with prostitution, since she later acted as if nothing happened.

    Oh and by the way, if you were only broken up for a week, but she kept messaging with the guy for a while afterwards, and even developing feelings for him – then this would be cheating on her part, wouldn’t it? If we want to be super “technical”.

    She still says that what she did in January is not cheating because we had broken up in that one week and that it is none of my business because we were not dating

    So if you break up every second week, and she goes to sleep with another man each time you break up, it would be none of your business either? And she would be called loyal and faithful?

     

    #431520
    Roberta
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy

    To answer the question that your thread possited……

    If you  two were in the habit of mini breakups & arguments & then kiss & make up then there maybe a  presumption that you were still in an ongoing relationship with B therefore it was cheating.  If you thought that this was the final breakup then from your point of view, therefore not cheating.

    #431597
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    “So if someone slaps you in the face, but then says “I thought it wasn’t important not to slap you in the face”, and then apologizes, and then keeps slapping you in the face, and apologizing… what would you think of this person?” I did not forgive her for the mistakes she constantly repeated, I forgave her for the mistakes that were different each time. But still I thought some people just deserved more chances to change. Me being blinded by love and hope convinced myself that she would change so I kept forgiving her.

    “She has been slapping you in the face all this time, pretending she is oblivious, she “wasn’t thinking”, she “forgot”, she “didn’t think it was important”…. when in reality, she has been lying to you, manipulating you and making a fool of you.” They were not all slaps, they were different types of hits, like an elbow to the face when she opens the door or something, and the next time she kicks me in the shin while walking. By considering all the circumstances of her mistakes, I ended up being stupid enough to forgive her and give more chances.

    “And your belief (which you adopted from your parents) that women tend to “do stupid things” actually came as a boomerang: because you believed she too is innocent and stupid, rather than manipulative and calculating.” I still see that you did not read what I said about my parents. This belief you stated did not come from my parents but from social media and real life experiences I’ve witnessed. Maybe it was false where u live, but this kind of behavior is quite common here. A belief/stereotype do not form with the influence of one or two persons, but a lot more people.

    I’ve realized my mistake. Making excuses won’t change it. But why me? She had men who had a lot more money, persons who even wanted to marry her and offered her thousands of dollars. So why me? Is it cause I was so easy to manipulate? Why is it such a coincidence that she finally got a stable job around the same time that we broke up? I feel like God gave me this experience to teach me to be careful what I should wish for.

    The break up in Christmas 2022 IS the breakup when the cheating happened. It just extended into January 2023 because my bday is Jan 5, which is why every bday will be misery for me. Yes you got the chronology of the events right, but we reconciled while we were in the country, I took her on a movie date for my birthday and a week later we returned to college. She didn’t seem like she was affected by what happened, but I assumed that she was acting to hide her pain. But the acting was a little too good.

    “Oh and by the way, if you were only broken up for a week, but she kept messaging with the guy for a while afterwards, and even developing feelings for him – then this would be cheating on her part, wouldn’t it? If we want to be super “technical”.” Yes it would be cheating, but the issue is I don’t know the exact dates of her “cheating” and she said she doesn’t remember and since it has been more than a year, even my memory is not that accurate.

    “So if you break up every second week, and she goes to sleep with another man each time you break up, it would be none of your business either? And she would be called loyal and faithful?” By her logic, yes. But I am not falling for it anymore.

    I am just disappointed that I am so used. I feel hollow. Broken. I just found out that she already started flirting with a guy who she knew in high school and he expressed that he has some feelings for her already. And she told him that she is healing from a relationship that ended FEW months ago. The more I talk to you, the more aware I become, the more broken I get. Now everything feels fake. What if every moment we had was manipulated? What if all the happy moments I had were fake? What if I was being used the entire time? The realization is breaking me. I want to cry. I want to release my pain but I have exams and other things to worry about. In a week, I will be traveling to my parents’ place again and I cannot show them my grief cause they will ask questions. My heart feels so empty, yet I still feel so much pain. I do not miss her nor do I want her back, but I am just disappointed that I was being manipulated and used the entire time. I am broken by what I got in return for all the love that I gave her. I wish I had all the answers to my questions. To clear all the doubt from my heart. Wishing I could go back in time and stop myself from being stupid. But it is a learning experience. But what now? I have no one. Not my parents. Not my friends. I am just all alone. Like I was, once before. My suffering is all for me to bear.

    Paradoxy

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