Good late morning, about-to-become-mom, Nea 🙂

“I’m realizing how difficult it has become for me to be extending empathy for someone who has never really changed”-

A few years ago, and I shared about it somewhere in these forums, I had an image of a plant situated in a dry, arid ground, so its roots keep growing longer and longer, trying to reach water.

Similar to a child, situated in an empathy-arid home, extending more and more empathy toward the unempathetic parent, trying to reach his or her heart.

💛 Anita

Back to the quote above, “With family you can yell, swear, or behave however you want.”-

Before continuing the quote, look at what he said right above:

He’s celebrating his freedom to yell, swear and behave however he wants with family, with immediate family: wife and children.. those living “under his roof”.

Continued: “Whereas you have to control yourself with outsiders”-

He doesn’t like not having the freedom to yell, swear and behave however he wants with outsiders.

I suppose his immediate/ living-under-his-roof family provides him with something he can’t get elsewhere and he’s grateful for that.

He’s almost saying: ‘You’re providing me with the opportunity to do what I need to do: yell, swear, and behave however I want, thank you!’

And if he is to consider your husband as an insider, as an immediate family member (rather than extended family member or a non- family outsider), your husband too needs to provide your father with that precious opportunity to yell, swear, and behave however he wants.

Not at all times, only when he needs to.

Does this resonate?

🤔 Anita

Good afternoon, Nea:

I will reply further in the evening or later tonight, but for now, as I read the following:

“Another thing he has always said is that with family you can yell, swear, or behave however you want because ‘they’re family,’ whereas you have to control yourself with outsiders. I’ve never understood that logic.”-

I immediately remembered that one time my mother told me (translated): “You think that I don’t know that I am wrong (in regard to hitting or shaming me), but what are you going to do? You have nowhere to go”

(That was the only time she ever mentioned being or doing anything wrong).

Anita

Good late morning, Nea:

“I’m trying to hold both things at once: perhaps my husband could have disengaged earlier… while also recognizing that continuing to speak does not justify what happened afterward”.

* What happened afterward: “being sworn at, called names, humiliated, or physically intimidated.”

In most contexts, it makes sense to see the fault on both sides and to share responsibility for what went wrong. Problem here is that there’s no shared responsibility. Your husband did nothing wrong.

He didn’t disengage earlier because he was trying to explain himself, trying to make your father understand, rightfully trying to protect the truth and his dignity.

Like I said before, sometimes things truly are black and white.

Giving the perpetrator legitimacy, equal understanding, or empathy in the context of them initiating and proceeding with the perpetration of abusive acts against their victim (swearing, calling names, etc.), is doing injustice to the victim.

So, no, I don’t think that distinction is fair.

Anita

Hi Nea:

I’ll answer further tomorrow morning (I won’t forget!), but for now:

“I’m South Asian, and there is definitely this strong expectation that if an older person, especially a father or father-in-law, says ‘enough’ or ‘stop talking,’ the younger person should simply stop.”-

Yes, that makes sense if the younger person gets carried away with some immature, self-centered impulsivity, like ‘I want this, right now!’. The reasonable, mature elder saying “enough” or “stop talking” in that context makes total sense, and the younger person should indeed, “simply stop.”

But if of the two, the elder is the self-centered and impulsive one, the one who never matured- that’s a different context.

Anita

Good Wed Evening, Nea:

Thank you for saying that 🙂

I wish you wouldn’t lose the togetherness experience of family get- together holiday events.

The term ‘triangulation’ comes to mind as a possibility: your father gathering others in the extended family to side with him and against your husband (and by extension against you and your daughter).

I can easily imagine him doing just that 😔

As long as the gatherings happen in HIS house, under HIS roof (like he likes to say), others are likely to feel pressured to bend his way.

Another term that comes to mind in regard to your mother siding with your father is ‘trauma bonding’.

I truly believe that your husband did nothing wrong during the confrontation that was perpetrated by your father.

Often situations are complex and there’s wrongdoing on both sides. But not in what you described.

Sometimes things are really black and white.

“I don’t want to pressure my husband into accepting behaviour that I myself know has hurt me for many years just because the person doing it is my father.”-

That’s your integrity ✨️✨️✨️

Hmm.. I just noticed that you referred to him as your father (and not as ” dad”). I think it’s healthier. There’s a sentiment that’s attached to the word “dad” that.. doesn’t fit with who he really is.

You wrote about your husband: “He wants to stand up for himself”- that’s his dignity, his agency. It’s the foundation of everything that’s meaningful.

I imagine your daughter looking up to her dad (your husband) with admiration, as she naturally will. But if he looks down at himself (for submitting to your father’s domination and abuse), he’ll feel undeserving of the look in her eyes, and that will hurt a lot. I hope that never happens.

🌿 Anita

Good afternoon/ night, Confused 🙂

It’s clear to me that trolling around is a bad idea in this relationship. She needs clarity and joking around blurs clarity.

I think that she suffers from what I’d call an “unchosen wound” and needs clarity, steadiness and reassurances from you. Problem is that even if you never troll around with her, never (ever) mention an ex, and you reassure her A LOT, she’s likely to still feel unchosen (and keep it inside for some time before she lets you know) because the wound is strong and it predated you.

I just noticed that you wrote “maybe I feel safe with her”- do you feel safe with her?

🤔 Anita