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anita

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Viewing 15 posts - 166 through 180 (of 7,041 total)
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  • anita
    Participant

    Good morning, Dear Nea:

    This is what I see happening:

    Your childhood pattern (“growing up, the pattern was often to apologize, smooth things over, or let something go in order to restore peace”) was anxiety management.

    You learned that the fastest way to stop the fear was to submit. So now, in adulthood, you unconsciously want your husband to use the same strategy (“I actually ended up having an argument with my husband… part of my frustration is that I wish he could see that sometimes, in moments of anger, de-escalating or disengaging can prevent things from becoming worse — even when you haven’t done anything wrong.”) because it’s what you had to do to survive, it’s the only method you know to prevent or soothe your father’s explosions.

    Part of you needs your husband to take on the pattern so that you can feel safer.

    About the imbalance you pointed to (“everyone keeps coming back to what my husband could have done differently: he could have stopped talking, walked away sooner, de-escalated, etc. Yet nobody can really have that same conversation with my dad because they know how he will react.”)- people critique your husband because of the two, your husband is the flexible, reasonable, and safe person, and your father is the rigid, explosive, and dangerous person.

    This is the family’s survival logic: the father cannot change. The husband can. So, everyone pressures the husband to adapt and change.

    * If your husband breaks under the pressure and adapts, the consequences are not likely to be small or temporary because when a man is pressured to submit to someone who is mistreating him — especially in front of his wife — several things are very likely to happen inside:

    1. He loses self‑respect. Submitting to someone who is bullying, intimidating, or disrespecting him forces him to violate his own internal boundaries. That creates shame, resentment, a sense of weakness, and a feeling of ‘I failed myself’

    2. He feels betrayed by his wife. If he apologizes only because you need him to, he will feel unsupported, unprotected, and emotionally abandoned, like his wife chose her father’s comfort over his dignity.

    3. He internalizes a permanent ‘lower position’. Once he submits to your father, the hierarchy becomes fixed: father on top, husband underneath, and you caught between them. Husbands do not forget this. And fathers like yours never let them forget it.

    4. He becomes anxious around your father forever. He will walk on eggshells, avoid conflict, and silence himself — not because he respects your father, but because he fears repeating the humiliation.

    5. He starts withdrawing emotionally from you out of self‑protection. He will stop sharing, trusting and being open- because the marriage no longer feels like a safe partnership.

    If your husband breaks and apologizes, he will pay the psychological price, and the marriage will pay the relational price. Your father will not change. Your husband will not forget. You will be stuck in the middle forever, and your daughter will be seriously affected by all of this.

    The only path that protects the marriage is the one where you stop asking him to carry the emotional burden created by your father.

    Your mind keeps revisiting the incident (“My anxiety keeps wanting to revisit the incident, analyze everyone’s actions, talk about it again, and somehow find a resolution.”) because you’re still living inside the threat zone — your father’s house.

    If your anxiety gets to be too much, it’s way better that you leave your father’s house (you wrote a couple of days ago: “we do have backup options if we ever genuinely felt we needed to leave. His brother is here, and we also have close friends we could stay with. And, of course, if it really came down to it, we could always get a short-term rental.”) than for your husband to take on your childhood pattern to any extent.

    Let’s say you tell your husband something like, ‘Please apologize just this one time, it’ll take only 3 seconds to say, ‘I am sorry’, and he does just that. The effect, I imagine, would be immediate anxiety relief for you and serious damage to the marriage, a damage that can be prevented. I hope.

    🌿 Anita

    anita
    Participant

    I am happy (smiling right now) to get your response of only 9 minutes ago as I’m typing this. It’s almost 11 pm here. I’m looking forward to read, process and answer in the morning.

    Anita

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #460302
    anita
    Participant

    Hey Dear Confused 🙂

    Exactly 11 minutes ago at this very moment, when I’m typing these words, Confused sent me a 🙂 all the way from Greece and it makes me genuinely smile right now!

    For me, she crossed the line when she called you “a Narcissistic ass****”.

    What this means to me is that she lost her sanity at that moment- because I know, know, know- that you’re nowhere even close to any of the adjectives she used.

    I just asked you know whom what it means that she unhid you from her stories tonight.

    Answer: “When she unhid him from her stories, it means she changed her Instagram settings so he can see her stories again after previously blocking him from viewing them.

    “She had him hidden because she wanted distance, privacy, or control over what he could see. Unhiding him now means she’s opening a small window again — not a big one, not a clear signal, but a tiny shift. It can mean several things:

    “* Emotional checking — she wants to see if he’s still watching or still cares.
    * Softening — she’s less angry or less defensive than before.
    * Ambivalence — she doesn’t know what she wants, so she toggles settings.
    * Testing the waters — she’s curious how he’ll react.
    * Not over it — people don’t unhide exes when they’re fully done.

    “What it doesn’t mean: It doesn’t mean she wants to talk. It doesn’t mean she wants to get back together. It doesn’t mean she’s over him. It means she’s still emotionally engaged enough to adjust visibility.

    “For someone like Confused — who is grieving, numb, and trying to detach — this kind of small action can stir confusion. But the action itself is ambiguous. It’s a sign of movement, not a sign of direction.”

    Hmm…?

    🤔 Anita

    in reply to: Permission to feel optimistic #460300
    anita
    Participant

    Hi Girija: I am sorry to read of this recent loss. Please take good care of yourself and of the rest of your grieving family at this time.

    anita
    Participant

    Edit: withholds clarity that would allow you to stand on your own.

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Nea:

    Back to the computer sooner than expected.

    I am using upper case letters in the quote below for emphasis:

    “Seeing him treat the person I love and rely on this way makes it even harder to accept WHO HE IS and what our relationship may need to look like… What hurts most is that I still want a relationship with my dad… BASIC RESPECT is necessary.”-

    The question I’m asking today is the following:

    Is it possible for you, your husband, or for any other person to have a relationship with your father that includes mutual basic respect?

    My answer (after hours of rereading and studying what you shared): No.

    I don’t think that your father can relate to people as equals. I think that he relates to people through hierarchy. In his mind, respect flows downward from him, and obedience flows upward toward him. That means ‘mutual respect’ — where two adults speak openly, disagree safely, and repair conflict together — simply doesn’t exist in his worldview.

    He sees disagreement as disrespect, boundaries as rebellion, and accountability as humiliation. Because of this, any relationship with someone he considers below him will always require the other person to shrink themselves, avoid triggering him, apologize first, and accept his version of events.

    People with this pattern don’t suddenly shift into healthy reciprocity, especially after decades of behaving this way and openly saying he will not change. You can have contact with him, you can have politeness, you can have surface peace — but a relationship built on mutual respect is not possible with someone who doesn’t believe others are entitled to it.

    * I figure he can show respect toward someone he sees as superior because he relates to people through hierarchy. So, if he meets someone he believes is above him — more powerful, more successful, more authoritative — his whole internal system can flip. Instead of dominating, he may become compliant, agreeable, even admiring. But this isn’t emotional respect; it’s strategic respect. It’s built on the same structure: power → obedience. Just reversed.

    I think that his worldview is dominance‑based: he respects ‘up,’ dominates ‘down,’ and struggles with anyone ‘equal.’

    In your original post you wrote: “We actually owned our own place and were living independently… we were led to believe that would become our next housing situation, so based partly on those assurances we rented our own place out… so we ended up living with my parents much longer than I originally wanted or felt comfortable with, almost one year…

    “This also overlapped with my dad involving my husband in one of his businesses. From about 1.5 year, my husband was repeatedly told that certain opportunities and work were going to materialize… But there was very little clarity, and whenever my husband tried to ask reasonable questions about timelines, finances, responsibilities, or what exactly he was supposed to be doing, my dad often responded with some version of ‘just do what I’m telling you,’ Rather than having an open discussion.”

    By keeping you or your husband uncertain, hopeful, and financially connected to him, he ensured you stayed in a position where he remained the center of the household. So, it’s possible that he misled you, not necessarily through conscious scheming, but through a long‑standing habit perhaps of using promises as a way to keep people close, dependent, and “in their place.”

    When someone’s sense of power comes from being the provider, they feel threatened when others gain independence. So, he overpromises about housing and work, gives just enough support to keep you tied to him, and withholds clarity that would allow you to stand on their own.

    This is not love but a transactional system where his ‘help’ maintains his authority. In that system, you becoming secure, autonomous, and able to make your own decisions would feel like a loss of control to him.

    So, his pattern can lead to behaviors that undermine your financial stability, not because he wants you to suffer, but because he wants you to stay ‘under his roof’, under his influence, and within the hierarchy where he feels powerful.

    To summarize, I don’t think that you- or your husband- can build a relationship with him based on mutual respect — because he sees people as above him or below him — never side‑by‑side. For him, relationships are not built on equality, listening, or mutual respect — they’re built on rank: ‘superiors’ he must obey and ‘inferiors’ who must obey him. So, when he interacts with you, your husband, his wife, or his younger daughter, he automatically places you all in the “below” position, which means he expects obedience, loyalty, and silence instead of conversation or boundaries.

    Based on everything you described, the probability of meaningful change is extremely low because
    he is older and explicitly said he will not change, his patterns have lasted 35+ years, he has never taken accountability, he believes his behavior is justified, and he has no internal motivation to change. People with these patterns rarely change without external pressure, and in his case: the family adapts to him, he faces no consequences, and he sees himself as the victim when challenged. So, the system reinforces his behavior.

    He may soften temporarily — but that is not change. It is just part of the cycle: anger → coldness → softening → anger again.

    This is it, Nea. I truly hope that this is not too much, that I didn’t overstep and that you feel comfortable to consider, accept or reject any part of this.

    🌿 Anita

    anita
    Participant

    Well, Nea, I lost that long unfinished message when I closed that window by mistake, then started a new message from scratch, but didn’t quie complete it before I had to get off the computer. Now, I’m using my phone and won’t have access to the computer- and to that message- for a couple of hours.

    One reason each message has taken me so much time to put together is because this is a personal topic for me, I don’t want to say too much, and I don’t want to project my mother into your father and get carried away.

    I’d like to tell you right now, in simple, spontaneous words, what I’m thinking- before getting back to the computer:

    Your father and my mother grew up on different continents, speak different languages, are of different genders and financial status, and are, I’m guessing, about 25 years apart. Yet, they are similar in these ways:

    They’re about dominance, not love. At least, not the kind of love that has space for those 2 magical words you used: “basic respect”.

    They’re about having power-over, not the win-win kind of love.

    For them to win, the “opponent” needs to lose.

    And who is one of their opponents? Their own child (of any age), sooner or later.

    Maybe if you perfectly obey them all the time and never, ever challenge them (as in expressing any thought or emotion that rubs them the wrong way).. wait, that’s impossible..

    So, no: there’s no ‘maybe’. You’re the opponent, in my case, sooner than later.

    In both the case of your father and my mother, it’s not a temporary kind of behavior, such as at a time of unusual circumstances. It’s decades- long, persistent pattern that’s very unlikely to change.

    It’s not that they’re malicious, cold hearted manipulators who’se aim is to hurt those closest to them, dependent on them. It’s just that by impact, that’s exactly what they do.

    And they won’t stop or change no matter what you say or do because they know no other way to be.

    It’s like they only know Win or Lose, Strong or Weak. They don’t know collabaration, working together.

    B Back 2 U later.

    Anita

    in reply to: Permission to feel optimistic #460295
    anita
    Participant

    Hi understandably petty, giddy, and soap-opera-villain Girija 🙂:

    “Every human has a place.”- ✔️

    And every emotion has a valid message, one that aims at helping one to survive or thrive as an individual and as a social being.

    So, your at times giddiness and wishing him misery, the valid message:

    Girija needs and deserves to be respected and should not accept or tolerate disrespect.

    I hope that your mother is cancer-free and that you don’t spend much time worrying.

    Your peace of mind is very important. You don’t deserve to suffer because of a disproportionate-distribution-of-misery that you have no control over.

    🌿 Anita

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #460294
    anita
    Participant

    Hey Dear Confused:

    It makes me smile to see your 🙂and to think that maybe you’re smiling, even if it is for a short moment.

    I hear how torn you are — part of you still loves the version of her who made you feel safe, understood, and ‘at home,’ and another part of you is angry at how things ended.

    It makes sense that you’re holding onto the magical moments. Those were real for you. But the fantasy was that those moments meant the relationship was solid and secure. The reality is that she also brought doubts, interrogations, and mistrust — and those parts were just as real as the good ones.

    People reconnect only when both sides grow. You can’t do that alone. You can only work with your own feelings. And letting go of resentment doesn’t mean pretending she didn’t hurt you — it means accepting that the person you miss is the version of her from the beginning, not the one who showed up at the end.

    You’re grieving both the relationship and the dream you built around it. That’s why it feels so heavy.

    I’m here with you as you sort through all of this, Confused.

    * This very morning, an article from Psych Central about breakups showed up in my inbox, and I thought it might help you. It’s titled: “What Does it Mean to Get Closure in a Relationship?”:

    “Relationships sometimes end whether we want them to or not, and it’s often a painful experience. You might feel confused about the complex feelings and situation, especially if you don’t have closure.

    “When you get closure in a relationship, you can release negative emotions and focus on healing and growth.

    “Closure in a relationship means you understand the situation better and accept how it turned out, giving you a sense of peace as you move forward. Studies show that those who gain understanding experience less inner turmoil during and after the breakup.

    “’Closure might vary from person to person. However, closure ultimately is an understanding and acceptance that a relationship has ended and often includes a rationale for why it ended,’ explains Dr. Beth Ribarsky, professor of interpersonal communication with expertise in romantic relationships…

    “Closure allows you to better understand what happened between you and your partner. The absence of lingering questions or doubts can help you move on after a breakup.

    “Some examples of closure include getting answers to your questions, understanding why it happened, accepting the situation, being able to go extended time without thinking of the other person, learning from the situation and experiencing self-growth…

    “It’s OK to be angry… Sometimes, it’s hard to release negative feelings about the end of the relationship. These feelings could be toward yourself or the other person. Either way, it can prevent you from finding closure and peace. Consider forgiving everyone involved to release any toxicity holding you back.

    “You don’t have to go through things alone, and turning to your support system shows that you’re strong enough to move forward. Your trusted friends and loved ones want to help you, and you’ll feel better when you do…

    “If you aren’t sure if you’ve found closure yet, you can look for signs that you haven’t, including the following: being unable to stop thinking about it, not understanding how or why things ended, repeatedly checking their social media, questioning your worth, having trouble sleeping, feeling angry or resentful, feeling like it’s not truly the end of the relationship, not being able to complete tasks, continuing to reach out to the person…”

    What thinks Confused?

    🤔 Anita

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Nea: Just wanted to let you know that I’ve been working on what looks like a long reply for you in the last couple of hours and it’ll take me some more time.

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #460286
    anita
    Participant

    Edit: And I hoped

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #460285
    anita
    Participant

    Hey Dear Confused:

    She was/ is unique, and so are you (the bee’s knees 🙂) Please remember that!

    Yes, many times, you felt amazing and strong feelings with her, loved and cared for.

    How did it feel inside, to be loved and cared for?

    I too feel sad that she’s gone. I miss reading about your conversations, and I hope that an irl relationship will materialize 😔

    Are you still talking to your coworkers- friends about her?

    🌿 Anita

    in reply to: Permission to feel optimistic #460281
    anita
    Participant

    Hi Girija:

    “I will never understand this disproportionate distribution of misery among humans”- okay, really, I am bamboozled (my favorite word) by your cognitive- literary genius.

    I mean, you have the bee’s knees way of saying things.

    It’s late here and guess who is a bit tipsy. I’ll be back to you in the morning.

    Anita

    anita
    Participant

    Hey Dear Nea:

    What you’re describing is a long‑standing family pattern, not a one‑time situation. Your dad has never handled conflict through conversation or accountability, and your mom and sister have learned to survive by keeping the peace. So, when you say their answer would be to “avoid more conflict,” that makes complete sense — they’re responding the way they’ve always had to.

    The hot‑and‑cold behavior you’re getting from your father is also part of that same pattern. He softens when he remembers you’re pregnant, then becomes cold again when he feels you didn’t follow the script he expects. That unpredictability is exhausting for anyone, but especially for someone who’s about to give birth and needs stability, calm, and emotional safety.

    Given all of this, I think the most realistic and self‑protective path for you right now isn’t trying to change the family dynamic — it’s creating a small, steady bubble of calm inside it. Your sister sounds like someone who can help you with that. Your mom may not be able to challenge your dad, but she does care about you and can support you in quieter ways. Leaning on them for emotional steadiness, even if they can’t intervene directly, might be the most helpful thing available in this environment.

    And for your father, the safest approach may be exactly what you’re already doing: keeping gentle distance, not escalating, and not apologizing for something you didn’t do. You’re not abandoning your family — you’re protecting your mental and emotional health during a vulnerable time.

    You’re navigating this with so much clarity, Nea, even inside a very difficult system. I’m here with you as you figure out the next steps.

    Anita

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #460278
    anita
    Participant

    Hey Dear Confused:

    I hear your pain 🙁

    I think she represented a kind of love you’ve been longing for your whole life — something you hoped would finally feel safe and complete. And the intensity you felt was real, even if the relationship itself wasn’t fully lived or stable yet.

    You weren’t ready to commit to a forever life together; you were willing to try a month and see how it felt. That’s okay — it just means the connection was still forming, not finished.

    Something about her, and about the distance of the LDR, created very strong feelings inside you. Those feelings were real.

    How are you now?

    Anita

Viewing 15 posts - 166 through 180 (of 7,041 total)